When will tide turn against current style of football?

[Robin101]

Enjoyed this article from the BBC about the slow death of the ‘screamer’ in football. 

The article claims it isn’t entirely down to data, analysis etc but seems to me that it must be a major reason. 

Some people enjoy data. But I personally think the reason we all fell in love with football was the romance, blood and thunder of it referenced in the article. No schoolboy ever dreamt of xG. 

Everything feels over-analysed, over-controlled. It reminds me of one of my other favourite sports: cycling. That used to be a sport built entirely on the romance and gut feeling - if the legs feel good, go for it. Then along came Team Sky and staring at a power meter…

At least in cycling I can foresee a time when they simply ban power meters etc in competition to make it more exciting and unpredictable. But you’ll never be able to ban stats and data in football (there’s nothing to ban). 

Are we doomed to the tyranny of xG forever? If the stats show that possession football is the most successful, will the game ever revert to soemthing different, more open etc?

What do you think? Have a feeling I’m sounding like a dinosaur here.

[Barrs Court Red]

I’m sure the trend will move on from the bland over analysed and overly sanitised game we see today.  I would be ironic if longball/route 1 football becomes the flag bearer of exciting football at some point. 
 

 

[downendcity]

Sod's Law says that the tide will turn against the current style of football just as soon as  we get good at it!

[REDOXO]

20 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Sod's Law says that the tide will turn against the current style of football just as soon as  we get good at it!

SODS Law its a stupid question

[Mr Popodopolous]

How many screamers are or have been down to poor keeping or defensive or even GK positioning.

Secondly, some blast from the edge of the box..not that great IMO, can be overplayed. A curling shot into the corner or a chip from range yeah I prefer that to some extent. Just some powerful straight shot blaster is alright but is it often that spectacular .

Variety is always good though.

[redsquirrel]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How many screamers are or have been down to poor keeping or defensive or even GK positioning.

Secondly, some blast from the edge of the box..not that great IMO, can be overplayed. A curling shot into the corner or a chip from range yeah I prefer that to some extent. Just some powerful straight shot blaster is alright but is it often that spectacular .

it was when jimmy mann let fly

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

it was when jimmy mann let fly

I'll have to have a look on YouTube, see what I can find. Shall look forward to seeing some.

I recall Maynard had that period where he scored a wide range of goals for months, pre injury and attitude.  Maybe I'm misremembering but it possibly wasn't just one type of blaster. Elliott scored several long rangers in half a season too when we came so close under GJ.

Edited September 11 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsquirrel]

see if you can find the one from norman hunter where his boot flew off behind the ball,screamer

[White Stripe]

42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How many screamers are or have been down to poor keeping or defensive or even GK positioning.

Secondly, some blast from the edge of the box..not that great IMO, can be overplayed. A curling shot into the corner or a chip from range yeah I prefer that to some extent. Just some powerful straight shot blaster is alright but is it often that spectacular .

Variety is always good though.

Joe Bryan gave us some of those... against Swindon, the Gash, Man Utd.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, White Stripe said:

Joe Bryan gave us some of those... against Swindon, the Gash, Man Utd.

So he did. All in quite big games too, sure there were some others but he could rise to the big occasion for sure.

[ExiledAjax]

We stopped taking long shots under Johnson, and have really only recently started "having a go" again under Manning - this season's Manning, not last season's.

Generally on statistics influencing play styles - it's nothing new. Just as one example part of the popularity of route one was down to (flawed) statistical analysis. 

[Bazooka Joe]

Players today are much fitter, faster and tactically aware than in bygone days, but I got far more pleasure enjoyment from the raw, unpredicatable, highly physical football of the heady 70s/80s.

Players from those long gone days, seemed far more flamboyant, creative and daring than they are today. We expected, and were always ready for the unexpected.

For the forseeable future, it looks like regimented/modern football (both on and off the pitch) is here to stay.

It is what it is.

However, it would be great to see some real blood and thunder games, with more moments of breathtaking magic and genius, like a player (such as  Jimmy Johnstone, Best or Maradona) with ball at feet, weaving his way past numerous defenders, accompanied by an ever-increasing roar from an enthralled and passionate crowd.

 

[Numero Uno]

I read that John Terry applied for two managers jobs in League 1 and was told the brief was to “play like Man City”. Telling the interviewers that nobody could play like Man City except Man City didn’t go down well.

The nearest the OP will get to the type of football they want to see this season is Chelsea tbf. Maresca has introduced a form of organised chaos there and they will be a very good watch this season.

Modern football is about structure. Pure attacking football consigns some of the structure to the dustbin and allows an element of risk. It’s not the done thing.

[Markthehorn]

50 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I read that John Terry applied for two managers jobs in League 1 and was told the brief was to “play like Man City”. Telling the interviewers that nobody could play like Man City except Man City didn’t go down well.

The nearest the OP will get to the type of football they want to see this season is Chelsea tbf. Maresca has introduced a form of organised chaos there and they will be a very good watch this season.

Modern football is about structure. Pure attacking football consigns some of the structure to the dustbin and allows an element of risk. It’s not the done thing.

It was noticeable that Leicester fans seemed to be quite critical of his tactics and style of play at times last season - until they got promoted of course!

[beaverface]

I'm not advocating this, but if the rules were changed so that you could only make n  amount of passes in your own half or you can only hold onto the ball in your half for 1 minute, you'd probably see a lot more long ball or kick and press. Basically it would turn into a basketball style match.

Not my cup of tea, but would up the excitement levels one would think !!

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

It was noticeable that Leicester fans seemed to be quite critical of his tactics and style of play at times last season - until they got promoted of course!

Maresca at Leicester was absolutely not organised chaos though. It was a pretty rigid system, and he was dogmatic in it's implementation. He was training those players very, very hard to execute his version of Man City in the Champ. 

If he's now deployed a system of "organised chaos" at Chelsea then my personal assumption is that it's a case of the methods of the boardroom replicating themselves on the pitch!

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

it was when jimmy mann let fly

Screamer. I was sitting in the Dolman level with him when he hit that. I can’t remember as much power in a hit! 

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

see if you can find the one from norman hunter where his boot flew off behind the ball,screamer

I was in the EE for that one!

[BigTone]

3 hours ago, Robin101 said:

Enjoyed this article from the BBC about the slow death of the ‘screamer’ in football. 

The article claims it isn’t entirely down to data, analysis etc but seems to me that it must be a major reason. 

Some people enjoy data. But I personally think the reason we all fell in love with football was the romance, blood and thunder of it referenced in the article. No schoolboy ever dreamt of xG. 

Everything feels over-analysed, over-controlled. It reminds me of one of my other favourite sports: cycling. That used to be a sport built entirely on the romance and gut feeling - if the legs feel good, go for it. Then along came Team Sky and staring at a power meter…

At least in cycling I can foresee a time when they simply ban power meters etc in competition to make it more exciting and unpredictable. But you’ll never be able to ban stats and data in football (there’s nothing to ban). 

Are we doomed to the tyranny of xG forever? If the stats show that possession football is the most successful, will the game ever revert to soemthing different, more open etc?

What do you think? Have a feeling I’m sounding like a dinosaur here.

You are by no means alone in your thoughts

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I was in the EE for that one!

I was in open end, almost straight down the line of it.

 

[Midred]

Who was the dutch player in the '74 world cup who scored a couple from the half way line?

[Davefevs]

Ari Haan, past Dino Zoff

(edit: sorry that was 78)

Edited September 11 by Davefevs

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was in open end, almost straight down the line of it.

 

Love the goal...but the commentary is equally good  

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

Love the goal...but the commentary is equally good  

Hated that Forest yellow away kit with blue numbers.

[spudski]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Hated that Forest yellow away kit with blue numbers.

So many teams in the 70s had yellow and blue away kits. 

[Graham76]

16 year old Wayne Rooney scoring his first premiership goal goal against Everton was peak screamer 

[38MC]

I think it’s here for a while unfortunately because I think the ‘skills gap’ has closed, so it is about marginal gains nowadays. 

 

[redsquirrel]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

I was in the EE for that one!

so was i

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Ari Haan, past Dino Zoff

(edit: sorry that was 78)

 

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

so was i

Here we go again, I expect by the end of this thread the old east end will have had about 40000 in there

[Mendip City]

3 hours ago, beaverface said:

I'm not advocating this, but if the rules were changed so that you could only make n  amount of passes in your own half or you can only hold onto the ball in your half for 1 minute, you'd probably see a lot more long ball or kick and press. Basically it would turn into a basketball style match.

Not my cup of tea, but would up the excitement levels one would think !!

Interesting idea…

In terms of rule changes, going back to fewer subs might help. Always having a like for like replacement, reduces fatigue, increases the sanitisation of the game and removes jeopardy. 

[Lrrr]

I don't think its just xG playing a part here, I think part of the reason is the general improved ability of goalkeepers, gym routines that improve push off strength in their legs and better reflexes see more shots from distance saved now. 

3 hours ago, beaverface said:

I'm not advocating this, but if the rules were changed so that you could only make n  amount of passes in your own half or you can only hold onto the ball in your half for 1 minute, you'd probably see a lot more long ball or kick and press. Basically it would turn into a basketball style match.

Not my cup of tea, but would up the excitement levels one would think !!

I would kinda be a fan of a rule where once you go into the opposition half you can't go back in to your own half. Pressing becomes a lot more interesting, pressing high to try and force the opposition to play into your half so that you can reduce the pitch, teams in possession if protecting a lead probably trying to avoid playing into the opposition half again making the pitch smaller because once they do go into the other half they've reduced the pitch size. Then its about the quality of retaining possession in small spaces like you see in warm up drills keep ball in small spaces. 

[Mendip City]

My thought is that nowadays more games are boring, more sanitised than they used to be (sadly stats can’t prove this! It’s just my opinion). 
Football is technically better…. but that doesn’t always equate to entertainment. 
Football is increasingly about not losing rather than winning. 
Despite all the money flowing around the game, being an entertainment industry is being destroyed by the fear of losing. 
Watching Man City can be great but down at our level it’s a slower, risk averse, error strewn version of what they do and too often sides are just matching up. 
 

Anyway…. Just my opinion and I don’t see the game changing any time soon… it’s a business not a game now. 

[Fjmcity]

Sadly don’t see city score many thunder****s and never have really.

Semenyo had that whole minimal backlift power shot in his locker which is probably the closest we have come in recent years, can’t remember which game but I recall him hitting a ball and scoring the hardest I’ve ever seen with a side foot (close range mind)

seem to remember David howells banging one once upon a time but other than that it’s scant

but while I’m reminiscing, the trundle chip, second goal against scunny probably the best goal I’ve seen down the gate. Right behind it, the audacity 

Edited September 11 by Fjmcity

[The turtle]

What's driving me to insanity is the fact the players are more willing to take more risks in their own box instead of their own. For minimal game.

This attempt to draw in an undisciplined attacker, to make it a statistical advantage ... Only to turn back once it's very occasionally been achieved, thus allowing a defensive reset.

And best of all.... A failure to understand, that with this type of football. The best team at it on paper usually wins.

.....

pep for all his genius , still only made Man city this level by buying a devastating striker.  a player in kdb who is a dream, and a DM in rodri who doesn't lose.

........................

Football is currently at a cross roads....

The 00s united understood the game was won in midfield. The Chelsea 00s teams understood being bigger, being disciplined, and owning the midfield would bring glory 

Jose brought the importance of being on it from game one.

........

Barcelona, and Spain passed everyone to death.... Won everyone but it was boring at times 

Atletico and Leicester, showed the rebellion. Don't worry about possession, just be ready mentally on it , be 100,% on it, get the crowd hot, and be ready to pounce.

....

Then pep did pep things, it works for the best players in the world. It's effective, it also helps you can sell for millions the moment a player stops standards.

And that's where we are today.

Control is the name of the game. Pointless risks in own half is pleasing. Everything is about waiting.

Yet it still makes an incentive midfielder, and a strong fast striker to get anywhere,!?

 

What will change it? Normally football goes in circles. It will take someone brave.

2 at the back  2-3-1-2

Or 4-3-1-2 - no central striker, but your wing forwards are told, stay high, sit on the half way line.

The right players in a 442... Pace and aggression all over it 

 

......

And as an aside!!

rule changes.

Offsides with an attackers edge would make the pitch bigger. More space, more football.

Modern football is not all bad. But realistically few things will change until someone starts winning games without dominating midfield.

Chaos will always exist though, no matter how they try to remove it.

 

 

[Robbored]

23 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Interesting idea…

In terms of rule changes, going back to fewer subs might help. Always having a like for like replacement, reduces fatigue, increases the sanitisation of the game and removes jeopardy. 

Many of the players prior to the PL would not get with the way they played back then. The game was far more brutal and the referees far more lenient.

Since Sky and far more football on tv the PGMOL have clamped down on pretty much everything that was commonplace 40+ years ago with the explanation being ‘the safety of the players’ and players removing their shirts after scoring earning a yellow ‘because it winds up opposing fans’……..…..

Fact is the PGMOL were seriously upset by years of  persistent criticism from managers.pundits  and fans that they introduced these draconian rules/laws which has become a double edged sword for them.

[grifty]

Fan expectation is at fault too. Fans want entertaining football (at all levels) and good results. You even see comments on here of "when did we last dominate a full game?" no team dominates a full game, but the expectation is that Bristol City should!

[RedHienz]

Top tier blasters.

[Laner]

David Nobles' goal against Palace is a cracker!

[Robin101]

What about simply making the goals bigger? 

Size of the goal hasn’t changed since the 19th century, despite average height being several inches taller (and probably more for your average professional goalkeeper). Then add in all the training and reflexes mentioned by someone else above, and keepers are able to dominate their goal far more. 

It’s also likely why women goalkeepers get a particularly hard time from some people. They are generally smaller than men but play in the same size goals. So they concede shots that men would save. 

[kmpowell]

16 hours ago, downendcity said:

Sod's Law says...

[johnbytheriver]

We don't need any rule changes. Just someone with the .nerve to play a couple of big men up front and a fast winger and play a more direct style of football,forget all this playing out from the back.Come to think of it manning should try it we have the players.

[redysteadygo]

46 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

What about simply making the goals bigger? 

Size of the goal hasn’t changed since the 19th century, despite average height being several inches taller (and probably more for your average professional goalkeeper). Then add in all the training and reflexes mentioned by someone else above, and keepers are able to dominate their goal far more. 

It’s also likely why women goalkeepers get a particularly hard time from some people. They are generally smaller than men but play in the same size goals. So they concede shots that men would save. 

Was working in Edinburgh in the 90s and saw a Scottish produced programme that recognized the average increase in size of men and increased the goal mouth size by the same percentage. They then played a match using the bigger goals to see how it would affect play. Well most of the first half played out as a normal game until some players realised that the area to shoot at had radically increased and the the shots started raining in from all distances and angles. Can't remember the score but there were certainly far more shots and hence a few more goals that passed desperately diving and clawing at air goalkeepers.

[2015]

17 hours ago, Robin101 said:

Enjoyed this article from the BBC about the slow death of the ‘screamer’ in football. 

The article claims it isn’t entirely down to data, analysis etc but seems to me that it must be a major reason. 

Some people enjoy data. But I personally think the reason we all fell in love with football was the romance, blood and thunder of it referenced in the article. No schoolboy ever dreamt of xG. 

Everything feels over-analysed, over-controlled. It reminds me of one of my other favourite sports: cycling. That used to be a sport built entirely on the romance and gut feeling - if the legs feel good, go for it. Then along came Team Sky and staring at a power meter…

At least in cycling I can foresee a time when they simply ban power meters etc in competition to make it more exciting and unpredictable. But you’ll never be able to ban stats and data in football (there’s nothing to ban). 

Are we doomed to the tyranny of xG forever? If the stats show that possession football is the most successful, will the game ever revert to soemthing different, more open etc?

What do you think? Have a feeling I’m sounding like a dinosaur here.

Soon.

Spain did not play a slow passing style during the Euros and it was successful. They played with width, and pace. Also scored some long distance goals. 

I'm hoping and praying that we see a change in style over the next few years because I hate the modern football trends.

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, Robbored said:

Many of the players prior to the PL would not get with the way they played back then. The game was far more brutal and the referees far more lenient.

Since Sky and far more football on tv the PGMOL have clamped down on pretty much everything that was commonplace 40+ years ago with the explanation being ‘the safety of the players’ and players removing their shirts after scoring earning a yellow ‘because it winds up opposing fans’……..…..

Fact is the PGMOL were seriously upset by years of  persistent criticism from managers.pundits  and fans that they introduced these draconian rules/laws which has become a double edged sword for them.

The PMGOL are not responsible for introducing laws to the game Robbo, IFAB are. It should be noted that law changes have frequently been for the benefit of TV not solely the the good of the game. Alterations to laws increased ball rolling time and increased goals scored.  Its never been harder to defend and goals scored in England's top division are at a fifty year high. 

[headhunter]

16 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

see if you can find the one from norman hunter where his boot flew off behind the ball,screamer

Vs. Everton IIRC.

Open End, ran in from Dolman side

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The PMGOL are not responsible for introducing laws to the game Robbo, IFAB are. It should be noted that law changes have frequently been for the benefit of TV not solely the the good of the game. Alterations to laws increased ball rolling time and increased goals scored.  Its never been harder to defend and goals scored in England's top division are at a fifty year high. 

It’s the PGMOL that ‘advise’ their officials how they should penalise whatever the offence is which of course is entirely subjective and I find difficult to accept that IFAB came up with a yellow for a player removing his shirt after scoring. Personally I find that utterly ridiculous………

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Vs. Everton IIRC.

Open End, ran in from Dolman side

Here you go

 

[Markthehorn]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s the PGMOL that ‘advise’ their officials how they should penalise whatever the offence is which of course is entirely subjective and I find difficult to accept that IFAB came up with a yellow for a player removing his shirt after scoring. Personally I find that utterly ridiculous………

That happens across the land so must have been something decided world wide ?

It is true the PGMOL do have their own version of the rules /laws though compared to European refs .

 

35 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Soon.

Spain did not play a slow passing style during the Euros and it was successful. They played with width, and pace. Also scored some long distance goals. 

I'm hoping and praying that we see a change in style over the next few years because I hate the modern football trends.

Yes they use their young exciting wide players and moved the ball with pace .

[Cowshed]

53 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s the PGMOL that ‘advise’ their officials how they should penalise whatever the offence is which of course is entirely subjective and I find difficult to accept that IFAB came up with a yellow for a player removing his shirt after scoring. Personally I find that utterly ridiculous………

Yes IFAB introduced a sanction for removing a shirt while celebrating a goal. laws-of-the-game-2023-24 (theifab.com) This was introduced at a world cup.

Edited September 12 by Cowshed

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Soon.

Spain did not play a slow passing style during the Euros and it was successful. They played with width, and pace. Also scored some long distance goals. 

I'm hoping and praying that we see a change in style over the next few years because I hate the modern football trends.

Spain over the tournament varied a bit but could and did still dominate the ball at times..

Croatia- 46% 

Italy- 58%

Albania- 59% 

Georgia- 76% 

Germany- 48% 

France- 59% 

England- 66% 

All that said they played with intent whether with or without the ball..but they had plenty of the ball during the tournament. Not as dogmatic as before granted.. they had width as well and were perhaps most like their 2008 side, rather than the 2010 and 2012.

Edited September 12 by Mr Popodopolous

[jj77]

Maybe it's time to do something different from corners rather than lump it into the box as apparently only 2% of corners result in a goal.

[underhanded]

The Papiss Cisse volley against Chelsea a few year back in the prem is the best 'have it' screamer for me. Delightfully bonkers

[pillred]

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

So he did. All in quite big games too, sure there were some others but he could rise to the big occasion for sure.

Ooh! Err! Mrs.

Edited September 12 by pillred

[hinsleburg]

We should sign this guy...

In all seriousness though, we don't have many players capable of just a 'f*cking why not' thunderblast. Williams can connect with the ball sweetly once a season (See Away V West Ham last year pass and cross to Twine V Millwall) but sadly never seemingly when shooting. Sykes, Twine and so far Bird look like they've got plenty of Finesse to strike a long ball but that would be precision rather than just pure Power. Knight I'm not so sure about and Armstrong/Fally haven't given any indication they could.

Dark horses are Tanner and Pring, both of those can hit a sweet ball but Tanner has his for the season, Pring must be due a '**** it' moment and put one in from 30 yards... To be fair, Mehmeti Vs Leicester last year was a brilliant weaker foot swing and would love to see him try cutting inside and just leathering it as has good technique.

As mentioned above, I think Semenyo was the best I've seen at just producing power from nowhere consistently. Stead's V QPR was pretty special for that as well to be fair and think Maynard scored a couple in the same game which went through the Keeper! JET as well actually!

There is nothing better when the crowd goes 'shooooot' to a player that's never scored and is 40 yards out and then when it flies over the Atyeo are like 'what did you do that for!?'

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, jj77 said:

Maybe it's time to do something different from corners rather than lump it into the box as apparently only 2% of corners result in a goal.

Corners have been around ever since the game was invented and hundreds of thousands of managers over many many decades have no doubt tried to work out the most efficient way of taking them and every conceivable method has been tried from blocking attackers, changing the angle with short corners all with little reward 

What would you suggest JJ?……….

[CodeRed]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Corners have been around ever since the game was invented and hundreds of thousands of managers over many many decades 

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!

 

And corners were not introduced until 1872..........

Edited September 12 by CodeRed

[Mr Popodopolous]

Dickie one is a nice mix of Placement, Power and accuracy.

Seeing certain midfielders in the PL charging in and powering it, spectacular to begin with, bit formulaic after a while.

[RedRock]

Hopefully, VERY soon.

Watching natural wing talents like Rashford, and now seemingly Saka, disappearing up their own backsides while playing for England is painful. Get to the ******* goal-line as quick as possible and cross it back to advancing forwards and midfielders. Then tell Kane don’t partner McGuire or Rice in our own half. You’re a goal scorer and you ain’t going to score from our own penalty box. Your job is to give the opponent’s defence something to worry about, unsettle them and don’t give them all the time in the world to organise an impenetrable defence block that we try and usually fail to thread the eye of a needle through. 

While I had grave suspicions that Manning was an FA textbook manager, the two new forwards give me reason to think he may be his own man. While the jury is out on their abilities, they are at least the type of forward to worry defences. The only way a Club like City are going to get in the Prem is being innovative and at the leading edge of the football curve as far as new methods of playing are concerned. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, jj77 said:

Maybe it's time to do something different from corners rather than lump it into the box as apparently only 2% of corners result in a goal.

Yeah, what we want to do is lure all the opposition players out of their crowded box, all 9/10 of them, by playing it back to the one or two we got on the halfway line, who can then pass to Max, thus creating loads of room in the box where there was none, and play loads of triangles around the oncoming opposition, ending up with Sink or Fally side-footing in from seven yards, in acres of space. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 hours ago, The turtle said:

Atletico and Leicester, showed the rebellion. Don't worry about possession, just be ready mentally on it , be 100,% on it, get the crowd hot, and be ready to pounce.

....

What will change it? Normally football goes in circles. It will take someone brave.

2 at the back  2-3-1-2

Or 4-3-1-2 - no central striker, but your wing forwards are told, stay high, sit on the half way line.

The right players in a 442... Pace and aggression all over it

Agree with a lot of your post but would point out.

*Atletico in their title year were a bit of a hybrid at times. They did dominate Possession and Shots at times, in certain games or even phases of games. They could press very high again at times. Technically found players at minimum I would describe as Villa, Turan, Koke plus Juanfran and especially Luis. Both attacking modern full backs. (Costa had his moments but not so much).

First Half of the season ie 19 Games or by Christmas points and even Goals they were going stride for stride with the big 2. Similarly dominant in their CL Group too. (Possession was more variable).

*Leicester were 4-4-1-1ish at times and after a couple of mmonths seemed to score less but concede much less..

I like the 4-3-1-2, you could even mix it in with a false 9.

4-3

False 9

2 wide strikers instructed this way high and press as you say

4-4-2..A counterpressing one perhaps, a front foot one well what I would do is go 2 v 2 and the 3rd man if an actual CM can create consistent overloads, you press the 2 with the 3 and especially look for the gaps. A problem with 4-4-2 it can be a bit straight line.

Pull someone out of position, switch play if your players as the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 wide are of sufficient speed of thought etc. Maybe even a forward drops back to help..embattled midfield and 1 striker up vs 2 CBs. 2 v 2 in wide areas..

[redsquirrel]

14 hours ago, frenchred said:

Here we go again, I expect by the end of this thread the old east end will have had about 40000 in there

probably so,but the other 39999 wouldnt have met for the first time this year at forest green watching city live on their big screen,  i probably should have sent a pm as it was a bit irrelevant for anybody else, same as everything else we plan to get up to this season .

i dont know what the capacity was in there in the 70s but when we were playing the likes of liverpool and leeds etc, it felt like 40k were crammed in even though it was probs only 4-5k at a guess

 

[Numero Uno]

14 hours ago, Fjmcity said:

Sadly don’t see city score many thunder****s and never have really.

Semenyo had that whole minimal backlift power shot in his locker which is probably the closest we have come in recent years, can’t remember which game but I recall him hitting a ball and scoring the hardest I’ve ever seen with a side foot (close range mind)

seem to remember David howells banging one once upon a time but other than that it’s scant

but while I’m reminiscing, the trundle chip, second goal against scunny probably the best goal I’ve seen down the gate. Right behind it, the audacity 

David Noble v Palace..............pea roller.

[redsquirrel]

jet could wallop a ball with accuracy

[2015]

I heard David Seal could half hit the ball

[Lanterne Rouge]

Brett Pitman could really hit a ball hard. 

[The turtle]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with a lot of your post but would point out.

*Atletico in their title year were a bit of a hybrid at times. They did dominate Possession and Shots at times, in certain games or even phases of games. They could press very high again at times. Technically found players at minimum I would describe as Villa, Turan, Koke plus Juanfran and especially Luis. Both attacking modern full backs. (Costa had his moments but not so much).

First Half of the season ie 19 Games or by Christmas points and even Goals they were going stride for stride with the big 2. Similarly dominant in their CL Group too. (Possession was more variable).

*Leicester were 4-4-1-1ish at times and after a couple of mmonths seemed to score less but concede much less..

I like the 4-3-1-2, you could even mix it in with a false 9.

4-3

False 9

2 wide strikers instructed this way high and press as you say

4-4-2..A counterpressing one perhaps, a front foot one well what I would do is go 2 v 2 and the 3rd man if an actual CM can create consistent overloads, you press the 2 with the 3 and especially look for the gaps. A problem with 4-4-2 it can be a bit straight line.

Pull someone out of position, switch play if your players as the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 wide are of sufficient speed of thought etc. Maybe even a forward drops back to help..embattled midfield and 1 striker up vs 2 CBs. 2 v 2 in wide areas..

Atletico have been a fascinating experiment on club DNA for many years.
Under simeone they went from the underclassed underdog to part of the evil empire

But with that came the want and need to play more expansive football. They want to, they try to. But every season there is a bad patch....and they question everything.

And in the champions league it just gets highlighted even more. V Dortmund last year, in the first leg the tore them apart. But at 2-1 they deserved better.
In the second game they fell behind, got Infront again.... Then the DNA kicked in, hold what we have. But those players are gone, the now cannot do it.

The still have the spirit and desire, their fans give them no choice. But they just aren't the right players to sit deep and hold.

The signings they made this year suggests they are going for hybrid
Normal = defensive stability 
Gallagher= energy and a toughness (Gabi style)

Along with Alvarez, who I think is perfect for them 

The question is - when the going gets tough, can they break that subconscious want to hold what they have 

They have the fans,
They have the stadium 
They have manager 
And they have a very good squad 
It's all there for them 

 

Edited September 12 by The turtle

[Mr Popodopolous]

35 minutes ago, The turtle said:

Atletico have been a fascinating experiment on club DNA for many years.
Under someone they went from the enderclassed underdog to part of the evil empire

But with that came the want and need to play more expansive football. They want to, they try to. But every season there is a bad patch....and they question everything.

And in the champions league it just gets highlighted even more. V Dortmund last year, in the first leg the tore them apart. But at 2-1 they deserved better.
In the second game they fell behind, got Infront again.... Then the DNA kicked in, hold what we have. But those players are gone, the now cannot do it.

The still have the spirit and desire, their fans give them no choice. But they just aren't the right players to sit deep and hold.

The signings they made this year suggests they are going for hybrid
Normal = defensice stability 
Gallagher= energy and a toughness (Gabi style)

Along with Alvarez, who I think is perfect for them 

The question is - when the going gets tough, can they break that subconscious want to hold what they have 

They have the fans,
They have the stadium 
They have manager 
And they have a very good squad 
It's all there for them 

 

Like you I find them a fascinating case study. Their rise from possible Financial issues and on pitch failings and mass fan discontent, to Champions and a CL final in about 30 months was remarkable. They made a net Transfer Profit too.

(Plus a Europa League and European Super Cup win, think there was a Copa Del Rey too).

I look at their 2013-14 season and see two or three different elements.. 

*First half of the season mix of clinical and intent. Think they had 50 pts from 19 Games and 47 Goals. That is pushing towards top 2 La Liga numbers at that time.

Also 15 Goals and 16 Pts in Group Stage of CL..that again is pushing towards elite levels.

That aside, they became more defensive post Christmas, perhaps couldn't keep up or remain as clinical. Albeit I did watch some of their games and..

*Barcelona 2nd leg CL- they scored within 4 mins and hit the woodwork 3 more times in the first 10 mins. Blitz, high press. Trying to end the game early with a partisan crowd at Home.

More interesting was two Away games...

*Chelsea Away, both cautious to varying levels. After they went behind they suddenly swarmed all over Chelsea in the 2nd leg. Good fake but theu stepped up dimsindnrly and while it wasn't constant it was for a good period before and after HT.

*Barcelona Away title decider, even moreso. Barcelona certainly are not and were not defensive but they came and started pressing high after falling behind in the Nou Camp, despite iirc Costa and Turan going off injured. Brilliant spirit. Got their equaliser and could easily have scored a goal or 2 more in that period.

Pragmatism- Yet shown their worth in high scoring games too..La Liga and CL.

*7 vs Getafe

*5 vs Real Betis

*5 vs Rayo Vallecano

*4 vs Almeria

*4 vs Rayo Vallecano

*4 vs Real Sociedad

*4 vs AC Milan

*4 vs Rapid Vienna

*3 vs Zenit St Petersburg

*3 vs Rapid Vienna

*3 vs Sevilla

*3 vs Valencia

*3 vs Levante

*3 vs Chelsea 

*3 vs Valladolid

10 of these were by the end of December though and 12 by late Janaury which does show a certain drop off!

Agree with your wider po8nt, they try to walk the line between pragmatism and becoming more attacking. They look to have a strong balance and age range thst this point.

Edited September 12 by Mr Popodopolous

[Robbored]

5 hours ago, CodeRed said:

And corners were not introduced until 1872..........

I don’t remember that CR.

[Robbored]

18 hours ago, frenchred said:

Here we go again, I expect by the end of this thread the old east end will have had about 40000 in there

I would have been in there as well and the view was crap but the atmosphere was terrific which is why we went in there. 

I don’t remember the game or Mann’s goal but seeing it on here it was a cracker!