The improvements since NP sacking

[Alan Dicks]

Any real improvements?

[Monkeh]

Just now, Alan Dicks said:

Any real improvements?

We spent money

That's it

[Shauntaylor85]

Nope. Look back at how well we played before the injuries at start of last season. Better football than now and solid. Nigel was treated appallingly. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Just now, Monkeh said:

We spent money

That's it

Gave it to the wrong man 

[Alan Dicks]

Just now, Monkeh said:

We spent money

That's it

Yeah little Lee done a bit of spending too.

[Toblerone]

Isn't the lighting better on the Dolman side this season? 

[Monkeh]

Just now, Alan Dicks said:

Yeah little Lee done a bit of spending too.

Little Lee was better then this shit

[Major Isewater]

9 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Little Lee was better then this shit

[Dr Balls]

We can no longer defend or attack. And we have a lot of expensive players who don’t seem capable of playing as a team. Plus a manager who doesn’t know how to manage a game, which is why he’s called a Head Coach.

All changes, but struggling to find any that make us better!

[Dastardly and Muttley]

I asked after two or three games this season.

What does Manning do well? What aspect of his job is he average or above average at?

[milo1111]

11 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Gave it to the wrong man 

Again. Clueless berks do it every time.

[steviestevieneville]

13 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

We spent money

That's it

How is that a improvement if it’s been wasted 

[LondonBristolian]

Honestly? I think we have a better squad and more strength in depth and, overall, the players we have signed are better than the players we have lost. 

I think we have better resources and look worse. That is utterly damning on the manager.

[Gol]

2 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

We can no longer defend or attack. And we have a lot of expensive players who don’t seem capable of playing as a team. Plus a manager who doesn’t know how to manage a game, which is why he’s called a Head Coach.

All changes, but struggling to find any that make us better!

IMO Mannings making things too complicated and the players do not understand what he wants to do

[wendyredredrobin]

We all said Pearson needed to be given a new contract and some money to spend.  The board in their wisdom gave the contract and money to a muppet.

We have lost the last 2 games 3 nil to mediiocre opposition and now sit 17th in the table having won only one game out of our first five.  We have also been knocked out of the FL Cup.

We were not in the game today right from the KO and if that is our response to being beaten by Derby, then it does not bode well for the rest of the season.

We looked sluggish, little movement and a lack of any forward thinking tactics.  Second to the ball in almost every situation. The players don't look committed or lack belief in the manager and his tactics (or lack of them).  Heaven help us when we start playing some of the top teams.

This looks like being a painful season and unless Manning can turn it around, he will need to be replaced by Christmas.

Edited Saturday at 16:34 by wendyredredrobin

[LondonBristolian]

8 minutes ago, Gol said:

IMO Mannings making things too complicated and the players do not understand what he wants to do

To be honest, right now I want to be reassured that Manning himself understands what he wants to do…

[redsquirrel]

manning has proved beyond any reasonable doubt that tinnion and jonboy simply dont have a clue

[mjd]

Yes but but ,when I find the answer I will let you know 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

11 minutes ago, Gol said:

IMO Mannings making things too complicated and the players do not understand what he wants to do

Agree, seems more Head Analyst than Head Coach, plus no signs of motivational skills that a Manager might bring. Things that look amazing in a spreadsheet should be in the melting pot as might be useful, but in and of themselves are pointless without an ability to relay them to the players. Seems like lots of nuanced ‘marginal gains’ thinking, but without seeing that the ‘really basic gains’ are not in place. And endlessly putting square pegs in round holes is a pretty basic error that most of us on here could correct, without a PhD in latest coaching theory. 

Edited Saturday at 16:37 by The Swan and Cemetery

[RobImps]

24 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Nope. Look back at how well we played before the injuries at start of last season. Better football than now and solid. Nigel was treated appallingly. 

Swansea away last season was a brilliant performance and City were a great watch.

You look at the squad Nige had for the Cardiff away game before he got the boot - it was shocking.

He gave so many debuts to academy players, raised millions and moved us up the league every season

I'd of loved for him to be given the millions he himself raised for this summer... No way we get spanked 3zip at Derby and Blackburn.

[Bris Red]

29 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

Any real improvements?

Away kits nice to be fair..

But on a serious note no.. I would have been so intrigued to see what Pearson could have done with the budget Manning has been allowed to spend this window just gone.. 

Edited Saturday at 16:38 by Bris Red

[Ivorguy]

He is about as charismatic as The Prime Minister

[Rossi the Robin]

Nearly a year now

Defence awful

Can’t score 

Can’t seem to pass

Players seem confused and played out of position 

No

[Gert Mare]

They got what they wanted. A manager who spends more time on the grass.

Nige spent more time having cups of tea and chatting whilst delegating the on the grass job to his team.

Spending all that time where the Lansdown’s can see the manager has obviously made all the difference and it’s like watching Brazil.

[milo1111]

27 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all said Pearson needed to be given a new contract and some money to spend.  The board in their wisdom gave the contract and money to a muppet.

We have lost the last 2 games 3 nil to mediiocre opposition and now sit 17th in the table having won only one game out of our first five.  We have also been knocked out of the FL Cup.

We were not in the game today right from the KO and if that is our response to being beaten by Derby, then it does not bode well for the rest of the season.

We looked sluggish, little movement and a lack of any forward thinking tactics.  Second to the ball in almost every situation. The players don't look committed or lack belief in the manager and his tactics (or lack of them).  Heaven help us when we start playing some of the top teams.

This looks like being a painful season and unless Manning can turn it around, he will need to be replaced by Christmas.

Totally agree with every word apart for him being replaced by Xmas. If he is given that long it’ll quite possibly be too late. He needs to be gone by mid October if the Blackburn/derby performances are the norm.

[Puckle_red]

We've gone from a side I was proud to watch, to this rubbish. All unnecessarily manufactured by 3 people completely out of their depth (SL, JL and BT).

Their egos couldn't handle Nige who had been there and done it. This is all self-inflicted by the club and so easy to see coming.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12-15 Games was my thinking before a definitive judgment but I'm severely doubting that now..the trajectory is very negative.

[Roger Red Hat]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

12-15 Games was my thinking before a definitive judgment but I'm severely doubting that now..the trajectory is very negative.

Sometime between the 6th Oct and 19th Oct.

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Gert Mare said:

They got what they wanted. A manager who spends more time on the grass.

Nige spent more time having cups of tea and chatting whilst delegating the on the grass job to his team.

Spending all that time where the Lansdown’s can see the manager has obviously made all the difference and it’s like watching Brazil.

Well 2024 Brazil yes, because they are crap as well, despite supposedly star players!

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

He is about as charismatic as The Prime Minister

No, he’s not even reached the levels of charisma of Sunak or Starmer, neither of whom could be described as even vaguely inspirational. Manning is a charisma void, a black hole for inspiration, sucking any enthusiasm out of the players, let alone what he does or rather doesn’t do for the supporters!

[Cidre Monita]

1 hour ago, Alan Dicks said:

Any real improvements?

I think the more pertinent question would be where would we be with Nige now if he’d received similar backing. 

[JoeAman08]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

12-15 Games was my thinking before a definitive judgment but I'm severely doubting that now..the trajectory is very negative.

Deserves a bit more time to judge the new team but back to back 3-0 losses after the summer of spending? His job should be on the line starting with the next game. Just because you made a decision doesn’t mean you need to persist with it when it is wrong. Every game is a big one for him imo. 
 

We‘ll see but being dispatched by, in my opinion, 2 bottom 12 teams comes season’s end does not bode well. 

[Corsham Alf]

27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

12-15 Games was my thinking before a definitive judgment but I'm severely doubting that now..the trajectory is very negative.

I was thinking 10-12 games tbh but right now I have major concerns around LM. I’m just glad I elected not to travel back from my holiday a day earlier to then travel to Ewood.

Oxford on Saturday already feels like a massive game. 

[Shauntaylor85]

Just now, Corsham Alf said:

I was thinking 10-12 games tbh but right now I have major concerns around LM. I’m just glad I elected not to travel back from my holiday a day earlier to then travel to Ewood.

Oxford on Saturday already feels like a massive game. 

Sorry he has had long enough on the flipping grass! In fact the more time he has on the grass he is coaching us to non league standard! 

[aa_bcfc]

Manning needs a pre season with the players. 

[M.D]

4 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

Any real improvements?

We've got a nice away shirt..

[Barrs Court Red]

The communication definitely.

 

i mean, they made a whole thing about it and how it will improve…

[GrahamC]

Pretty sure I was reading on here after 2/3 games we had had our best summer transfer window in years.

It wouldn’t be any of the same posters now claiming it’s a shitshow, would it?

[Dullmoan Tone]

We were often boring under NP, we conceded late goals for fun, for months. We sometimes went a game with less than a handful of shots - perhaps with one on target. Despite the love-in we were never getting promoted.

We are still shit under LM but the games are more open, we create more chances. Have more shots on target. We put people on the bench who have a better chance of affecting a game, rather than work experience for the U21’s.

Whether we like it or not, even Sir Alex struggled at the start - not that I am suggesting there is any evidence he will come good, but things were often terrible under NP and if you think otherwise you weren’t there often enough!!

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Whether we like it or not, even Sir Alex struggled at the start

**** me - that is some stretch.  

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

We were often boring under NP, we conceded late goals for fun, for months. We sometimes went a game with less than a handful of shots - perhaps with one on target. Despite the love-in we were never getting promoted.

We are still shit under LM but the games are more open, we create more chances. Have more shots on target. We put people on the bench who have a better chance of affecting a game, rather than work experience for the U21’s.

Whether we like it or not, even Sir Alex struggled at the start - not that I am suggesting there is any evidence he will come good, but things were often terrible under NP and if you think otherwise you weren’t there often enough!!

What a lovely context-less post, I won’t bother to challenge the other points.

[redkev]

4 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all said Pearson needed to be given a new contract and some money to spend.  The board in their wisdom gave the contract and money to a muppet.

We have lost the last 2 games 3 nil to mediiocre opposition and now sit 17th in the table having won only one game out of our first five.  We have also been knocked out of the FL Cup.

We were not in the game today right from the KO and if that is our response to being beaten by Derby, then it does not bode well for the rest of the season.

We looked sluggish, little movement and a lack of any forward thinking tactics.  Second to the ball in almost every situation. The players don't look committed or lack belief in the manager and his tactics (or lack of them).  Heaven help us when we start playing some of the top teams.

This looks like being a painful season and unless Manning can turn it around, he will need to be replaced by Christmas.

To make matters worse on paper we haven’t played any of the big hitters yet , 

[Danny P]

There are none. We spent money Nigel didn’t get because he wasn’t a yes man. Rinse and repeat we’ve seen it all before. Only yes men get unlimited funds and Tinnion controls it all now. Joke shop

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Danny P said:

There are none. We spent money Nigel didn’t get because he wasn’t a yes man. Rinse and repeat we’ve seen it all before. Only yes men get unlimited funds and Tinnion controls it all now. Joke shop

Well for 18 months to 2 years we couldn't particularly spend as NP and Gould inherited an almighty shit-show.

However post the Sale of Scott that was disgraceful, especially given the great work done by NP and his team (plus Gould) to stop the rot and set us moving again.

[Danny P]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well for 18 months to 2 years we couldn't particularly spend as NP and Gould inherited an almighty shit-show.

However post the Sale of Scott that was disgraceful, especially given the great work done by NP and his team (plus Gould) to stop the rot and set us moving again.

Exactly, he did all the hard work and was never given a chance just like Cotts. Both were never yes men

[The Journalist]

Liam Manning’s wins-per-game ratio has dropped back under Nigel Pearson’s after today.

Given everything, that’s abysmal.

[Ivorguy]

3 hours ago, Cidre Monita said:

I think the more pertinent question would be where would we be with Nige now if he’d received similar backing. 

Spot on

[Loderingo]

5 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all said Pearson needed to be given a new contract and some money to spend.  The board in their wisdom gave the contract and money to a muppet.

We have lost the last 2 games 3 nil to mediiocre opposition and now sit 17th in the table having won only one game out of our first five.  We have also been knocked out of the FL Cup.

We were not in the game today right from the KO and if that is our response to being beaten by Derby, then it does not bode well for the rest of the season.

We looked sluggish, little movement and a lack of any forward thinking tactics.  Second to the ball in almost every situation. The players don't look committed or lack belief in the manager and his tactics (or lack of them).  Heaven help us when we start playing some of the top teams.

This looks like being a painful season and unless Manning can turn it around, he will need to be replaced by Christmas.

The sad thing for me is that I believe IF Pearson had stayed and IF he had been given the money Manning has been given, then I think we would have had a real shot at going promoted, where as now the best we can hope for is mid table mediocrity and the worst being sucked into the relegation battle

[Loderingo]

5 hours ago, milo1111 said:

Totally agree with every word apart for him being replaced by Xmas. If he is given that long it’ll quite possibly be too late. He needs to be gone by mid October if the Blackburn/derby performances are the norm.

I can't see the board sacking him in October as it would be an admission of failure "So Jon,looking back was it a mistake to sack Nigel Pearson?"

The board will only sack Manning if we get sucked into the relegation fight.

[exAtyeoMax]

What’s gone wrong?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Loderingo said:

The sad thing for me is that I believe IF Pearson had stayed and IF he had been given the money Manning has been given, then I think we would have had a real shot at going promoted, where as now the best we can hope for is mid table mediocrity and the worst being sucked into the relegation battle

The most important thing I really wanted was Pearson to play a big role in lining up his successor, someone to understand what he’d built / was building and the value of that…and continue it, albeit in their own way.

[FNQ]

6 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Pretty sure I was reading on here after 2/3 games we had had our best summer transfer window in years.

It wouldn’t be any of the same posters now claiming it’s a shitshow, would it?

True… and pretty sure I was also reading quite a lot on here just how good our defence was supposed to be.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how good the players might be if they’re being set up to fail and that the person responsible for setting them up can’t see it.

[95red]

What's all the happy clappers  think now , worst appointment  ever he's a total clown . Tippy tat shit so easy  for a manager/ team   to play against .Bottom  3 beckons. 

[One Team]

In six weeks time it will be a year since he was sacked. The run of fixtures leading up to that is pretty challenging, it will be interesting to see where we will be one year on. 

[TheReds]

15 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Pretty sure I was reading on here after 2/3 games we had had our best summer transfer window in years.

It wouldn’t be any of the same posters now claiming it’s a shitshow, would it?

It can surely be both though can't it.

I would say we have had a very decent transfer window (assume most would also agree with that). It is also currently a bit of a shitshow too isn't it?
 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, One Team said:

In six weeks time it will be a year since he was sacked. The run of fixtures leading up to that is pretty challenging, it will be interesting to see where we will be one year on. 

We need another 16 points from the next 10 Games just to reach par. ie Top 8 to playoff numbers.

Or 10 from 5 and we had sa  thinner squad with more injures too.

*15 from 10

*18 from 12

*21 from 15

40%ish win ratio at all times in those Periods.

Edited Sunday at 11:58 by Mr Popodopolous

[steviestevieneville]

15 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

We were often boring under NP, we conceded late goals for fun, for months. We sometimes went a game with less than a handful of shots - perhaps with one on target. Despite the love-in we were never getting promoted.

We are still shit under LM but the games are more open, we create more chances. Have more shots on target. We put people on the bench who have a better chance of affecting a game, rather than work experience for the U21’s.

Whether we like it or not, even Sir Alex struggled at the start - not that I am suggesting there is any evidence he will come good, but things were often terrible under NP and if you think otherwise you weren’t there often enough!!

What an absolute ridiculous post . Chalk & cheese what Pearson inherited compared to manning . You seemed to have completely disregarded the problems he had that have been done to death on here. FFP , oversized, unbalanced squad who had downed tools . Having to get rid of a lot of high earners . He HAD to use the academy . Calling it work experience shows how little you know about what went on , or choose to ignore it. As for the Fergie comparison , you’ve made yourself look stupid . If you think otherwise then you sir are an ostrich . 

[ciderwithtommy]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The most important thing I really wanted was Pearson to play a big role in lining up his successor, someone to understand what he’d built / was building and the value of that…and continue it, albeit in their own way.

Totally agree. NP was clearly building a squad of “character”, playing in a certain way. Continuity was key, but we dropped back to old habits of a buzz word head coach.
 

There were very obvious coaches out there that would’ve continued on NPs “path” but we chose to rip it up, trust a novice, and here we are. Might be overreacting, but it feels like we have missed the Alex Scott/Semenyo opportunity and will now go back into consolidation mode, which quite frankly is a disgrace. 
 

[Spike]

Our build up play through the middle has improved, I'll be fair to Manning in this regard because when we played under Pearson it was speedy counters and width that drove us and my biggest frustration was that we never came though the middle of the pitch which made it hard against the teams who were good at sentencing width. 

The issue is that the better passing on the middle is rarely seen as we play that slow build up which means the opposition get to get their shape and get sorted before we even make any kind of passing movement to break through the defence. 

I'm not going to be unfair to Manning, he's got some coaching qualities but ultimately his biggest issue is that he is tactically inept in a game. He may be able to coach some things we were lacking but he's also clearly not a tactician, he understands what he's trying to achieve and he can create his style but when the opposition adapt and make it hard to play his game he's got no ability to change it up. I think of him like that mate who plays Football Manager and wins the treble using one formation that works for him but then the AI adapts and because he only ones that one formation he's used he struggles to then create another as its all he's learned and then his team goes to pot. 

Manning has obviously bought into the Pep style of football, but how many managers have gone the same way and can't get it to work. That's because Pep buys players with exceptional talent who can be a passer, a carrier of the ball, a creative type, all in one, you really don't get that luxury at this level. This is the level where you look at a player with talent and say "he can do a, b and c but not d, ok I'll offset him with a player who can do a, c and d and between them they'll work well together". Championship management is far more about working around weaknesses than it is building a team of strength, I don't feel like Manning really realised this fully as in League One you can get away with a lot more, just look at our League one winning team under Cotterill and how that went in the Championship. Cotterill was looking at players we just couldn't attract and that's because he knew we needed those one or two players who stood out to be able to compete and when he didn't get them we struggled and ultimately let go of a double winning manager. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

What an absolute ridiculous post . Chalk & cheese what Pearson inherited compared to manning . You seemed to have completely disregarded the problems he had that have been done to death on here. FFP , oversized, unbalanced squad who had downed tools . Having to get rid of a lot of high earners . He HAD to use the academy . Calling it work experience shows how little you know about what went on , or choose to ignore it. As for the Fergie comparison , you’ve made yourself look stupid . If you think otherwise then you sir are an ostrich . 

Completely.  Not just wearing blinkers, but sporting a sheepskin nose and too.

People forget he also evolved the sides to playing different ways depending on what he had available to him.  It wasn’t always pretty, but people forget WSM for example.

[BobBobBobbin]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Completely.  Not just wearing blinkers, but sporting a sheepskin nose and too.

People forget he also evolved the sides to playing different ways depending on what he had available to him.  It wasn’t always pretty, but people forget WSM for example.

This.

I'm struggling to answer the OP's question, there are some things I like but I couldn't make the case that they've got better per se. But I can answer the opposite question, "what's got worse?".

1) As you allude to, previously we were much more versatile. We played to the strengths of the team we had available and in many different ways over the period Nige was at the helm. From, as you say, WSM to playing one of the most technically gifted midfielders we've ever had in a roaming 6 where he was empowered to break lines with ball carries from deep. We played counter attack, counter-press, Blocks and man to man. Now we have some strict principles that don't change regardless of shape or selection.

2) We no longer promote youth. At all. To the detriment of the club and the ethos and so much more. A lot of that is intangible. But it's still a "worsening".

3) and this is the most important one for me, Our players are regressing. Players who came on leaps and bounds under the tutelage of Nige, Curtis and Jason (And the wider staff like Dr Dave) are dropping back into old bad habits. Nige was many things, not all of them good or perfect, but he did help so many of our players reach their potential. Vyner, Conway, Bell, Sykes, Pring, Knight, TGH, Williams and Yeboah have all gone backwards in some way or another since Manning joined. I wait with baited breath to see whether Rob Atkinson can return to the excellent form and leadership he was showing before the injuries. 

The unfortunate facts are that Manning is neither a good enough tactical coach to impact games at this level nor a good enough technical coach to improve our players. He's a system coach who cannot see the faults or adjustments in that system. Purists don't work in football. Unless they've got the money to buy the best players in the world. 

[The Bard]

21 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

He is about as charismatic as The Prime Minister

Thing is a football manager must have charisma. 

Prime minister frankly doesn't really need it. 

 

[ExiledAjax]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The most important thing I really wanted was Pearson to play a big role in lining up his successor, someone to understand what he’d built / was building and the value of that…and continue it, albeit in their own way.

Quite. Pearson was never going to manage us this season. The hierarchy just weren't going to do that. Pearson no longer being at City is not, in and of itself, the issue.

The issue is the wasted opportunity to not move on more seamlessly. It wouldn't necessarily have meant appointing Fleming et al, but a more considered approach to the succession was possible given the steady (albeit unexciting) state we were in last season.

Problem is that to do this would have required at least one of the board to be collaborative, honest, maverick, ambitious and progressive. You know, someone to really embody those values. Someone who could really push boundaries and offer creative, purposeful solutions, guiding our club toward a quality outcome while also driving our own sustainable success. Not sure anyone at the club is like that are they?

www.reachfeverpitch.com

[cheese]

18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

What a lovely context-less post, I won’t bother to challenge the other points.

Won't or can't?  I don't see miuch to disagree with.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, cheese said:

Won't or can't?  I don't see miuch to disagree with.

Won’t.

Thankfully others picked it apart without me needing to.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

What’s improved?

We are no longer habitually conceding late goals to drop points (Hull game excepted). 
That used to infuriate me under Pearson. 
 

No - the opposition are already out of sight by 90 minutes so conceding a late goal no longer hurts as much 

[BetterRedthanBlue]

Improvements... we have a striker who has scored 2 goals this season?

Everything else though is a mess. Can't defend, can't score despite us "creating more", fitness levels seem drastically below last season, no one has fight in them anymore, players are confused by the game plan (do we even have one? Apart from pass the ball side to side then backwards), players playing out of position, players not being played the way they want, no leaders on the pitch ala King, James and Andi.

But JL and Tins got the man they want to take us forward shame the only thing he's taking us forward to is relegation.

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

Manning has obviously bought into the Pep style of football

The one fatal flaw in copying the Pep style of play is that Pep actually makes tactical tweaks. 

[Woofyourkipper]

20 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

We were often boring under NP, we conceded late goals for fun, for months. We sometimes went a game with less than a handful of shots - perhaps with one on target. Despite the love-in we were never getting promoted.

We are still shit under LM but the games are more open, we create more chances. Have more shots on target. We put people on the bench who have a better chance of affecting a game, rather than work experience for the U21’s.

Whether we like it or not, even Sir Alex struggled at the start - not that I am suggesting there is any evidence he will come good, but things were often terrible under NP and if you think otherwise you weren’t there often enough!!

do you need a taxi

 

[cotswoldred2]

10 hours ago, 95red said:

What's all the happy clappers  think now , worst appointment  ever he's a total clown . Tippy tat shit so easy  for a manager/ team   to play against .Bottom  3 beckons.