Match Report: Fast Going Backwards Slowly

[Olé]

Top 5 all time worst City performances in my lifetime. Painfully slow, no width, fourth to every ball, players spectators for all but a 2 minute spell, backwards if we ever had the ball, taken apart by a basic side for a second straight game, humiliated tactically in every way and did little more than pass backwards and wait for them to get in shape and press then stop and get caught in possession before lieing down and curling up into a little ball and pretending we weren't there. Honestly it was embarrassing.

Other than a brief second half flash of quality from Armstrong and Yu this was as bad as I have seen City in years and as a result I have put as much effort + organis

 

atio

 

n into this match report as city put into today's ga 

O'Leary 4

Tanner 4

Pring 3

Vyner 4

McNally 3

Williams 3

Knight 3

Bird 3

Sykes 2

Twine 4

Mayulu 5

 

Armstrong 7

Yu 7

Roberts 6

Mehmeti 5

 

[The Masked Man]

The best thing about the game was the chant 'Just like Bristol your Rovers are s**t' but once we'd conceded we couldn't really sing that anymore. Getting up the M6 today was a nightmare so it's no surprise fans are angry after such an awful performance. 

[fly in the air]

That first goal was embarrassing  what the hell was max thinking. 

[Mike Stone]

2 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

That first goal was embarrassing  what the hell was max thinking. 

Agreed, but Williams wasnt switched on to the situation at all.

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

That first goal was embarrassing  what the hell was max thinking. 

If we get beaten here perhaps Manning will leave.

[Randy Marsh II]

I'm yet to see a performance from Twine that merits the money and attention we gave the signing. This season or last. 

[BCFC31]

8 hours ago, Olé said:

Top 5 all time worst City performances in my lifetime. Painfully slow, no width, fourth to every ball, players spectators for all but a 2 minute spell, backwards if we ever had the ball, taken apart by a basic side for a second straight game, humiliated tactically in every way and did little more than pass backwards and wait for them to get in shape and press then stop and get caught in possession before lieing down and curling up into a little ball and pretending we weren't there. Honestly it was embarrassing.

Other than a brief second half flash of quality from Armstrong and Yu this was as bad as I have seen City in years and as a result I have put as much effort + organis

 

atio

 

n into this match report as city put into today's ga 

O'Leary 4

Tanner 4

Pring 3

Vyner 4

McNally 3

Williams 3

Knight 3

Bird 3

Sykes 2

Twine 4

Mayulu 5

 

Armstrong 7

Yu 7

Roberts 6

Mehmeti 5

 

Agree with everything you have said that was by far the worst city performance I have seen in years !! Long trip up aswell takes the absolute piss

Edited Sunday at 07:04 by BCFC31

[BCFC31]

7 minutes ago, Randy Marsh II said:

I'm yet to see a performance from Twine that merits the money and attention we gave the signing. This season or last. 

That's because we are yet to see him in his best position that's not on the player it's on the head coach.

[Loosey Boy]

5 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

That's because we are yet to see him in his best position that's not on the player it's on the head coach.

This……

After yesterday, expect to see him in the 10 next week. Williams should be dropped with Bird and Knight in MF.

Sykes has been very poor so far and so expect Yu to get a start against Oxford too.

[BCFC31]

14 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

This……

After yesterday, expect to see him in the 10 next week. Williams should be dropped with Bird and Knight in MF.

Sykes has been very poor so far and so expect Yu to get a start against Oxford too.

For me all 3 of williams sykes and pring would be no where near my starting 11 going off there seasons so far all 3 have been abysmal. It's simple play bird deeper along sign knight move twine into the number 10 position bench williams replace pring with Roberts replace sykes with hirakawa the only issue is we don't have any left wingers who I trust at the club I have seen enough of mehmeti and I'm sick of the sight of him to be honest.

[BCFC31]

Roberts did more in 15 mins after coming on off the bench then pring has done all season.

[Ivorguy]

I see Manning as stubborn and fear he won’t make the personnel and tactical changes we can all see are blindingly obvious and needed for next game.

We are indeed in serious trouble.

 

[italian dave]

28 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

That's because we are yet to see him in his best position that's not on the player it's on the head coach.

Which is more than a little odd, given the supposed JET/SO’D type bond between the two - each bringing the best out of each other that no-one else can. Not much sign of that at the moment! 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

This……

After yesterday, expect to see him in the 10 next week. Williams should be dropped with Bird and Knight in MF.

Sykes has been very poor so far and so expect Yu to get a start against Oxford too.

Even Knight’s position is under pressure.  Last couple of games he’s been a shadow of the player.

[BCFC31]

10 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

I see Manning as stubborn and fear he won’t make the personnel and tactical changes we can all see are blindingly obvious and needed for next game.

We are indeed in serious trouble.

 

I dont trust him after yesterday he said " we need to strip it all back and go back to basics " that for me is an admission from him that all he has tried to do with the players over the summer on the training ground is not working I now fear we will just park 10 men behind the ball at home to Oxford and invite pressure what happened to our press we saw in the first few games ? It's now non existent. 

Edited Sunday at 07:45 by BCFC31

[petehinton]

47 minutes ago, Randy Marsh II said:

I'm yet to see a performance from Twine that merits the money and attention we gave the signing. This season or last. 

£4m

[BCFC31]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Which is more than a little odd, given the supposed JET/SO’D type bond between the two - each bringing the best out of each other that no-one else can. Not much sign of that at the moment! 

Manning needs to be careful some of his decision making is career suicide. If he gets sacked from here it will be straight back down to leauge 1 for him and hoggy.

Edited Sunday at 07:47 by BCFC31

[The Original OTIB]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Even Knight’s position is under pressure.  Last couple of games he’s been a shadow of the player.

True, but, oddly, came on against England and was very influential.

[DaveInSA]

4 minutes ago, petehinton said:

£4m

This is the biggest joke of it all. Burnley pulled our pants down. From what I’ve seen of Bird, he’s twice the player Twine is. 

and he was already in the building.

[Loosey Boy]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Even Knight’s position is under pressure.  Last couple of games he’s been a shadow of the player.

Don’t disagree but to drop someone you made captain only 6 games ago, is an even bigger call.

I assume that when we signed Bird, it was with the view to play him alongside Knight but then when Bird played well in the first couple of games, he’s tried to stick with it, even though we then signed the 10 we’d been chasing all summer - really got to go with square pegs in square holes from next week…..

Others are calling for Pring to be dropped too (he’s been pretty poor so far) but he’s not been helped with where Twine has been playing. Would rather get us in a 4411 formation to give Cam the support in front of him that he should have. We are then likely to see the best of him again.

Spme big calls to be made on Saturday for a game that feels huge already.

[The Original OTIB]

7 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

This is the biggest joke of it all. Burnley pulled our pants down. From what I’ve seen of Bird, he’s twice the player Twine is. 

and he was already in the building.

Stokes looks more than up to the task but off he goes. 

[Jose]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Even Knight’s position is under pressure.  Last couple of games he’s been a shadow of the player.

Id say all season he’s been a shadow of a player. 
 

Common theme here, Manning is taking these players backwards rather than improving them. Anyone want to suggest just one player that has improved under him? Just one?

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I dont trust him after yesterday he said " we need to strip it all back and go back to basics " that for me is an admission from him that all he has tried to do with the players over the summer on the training ground is not working I now fear we will just park 10 men behind the ball at home to Oxford and invite pressure what happened to our press we saw in the first few games ? It's now non existent. 

We got sucked into thinking we had a good high / intense press, because we looked good at it against a bomb scare Hull team, trying to play out from the back.  That game skewed our view.

7 minutes ago, Jose said:

Id say all season he’s been a shadow of a player. 
 

Common theme here, Manning is taking these players backwards rather than improving them. Anyone want to suggest just one player that has improved under him? Just one?

I wouldn’t.  But it’s about opinions.

[1team]

49 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

For me all 3 of williams sykes and pring would be no where near my starting 11 going off there seasons so far all 3 have been abysmal. It's simple play bird deeper along sign knight move twine into the number 10 position bench williams replace pring with Roberts replace sykes with hirakawa the only issue is we don't have any left wingers who I trust at the club I have seen enough of mehmeti and I'm sick of the sight of him to be honest.

What the hell has he done to Pring, one of the first names on the team sheet under NP.

 

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

All preseason the talk was (generalisation) - “we’ve got a decent squad, should improve on last season…and with a fair wind we can have a good season”.

Very few people ever give the other side - “what if we don’t perform?”

 

[Dr Balls]

15 minutes ago, 1team said:

What the hell has he done to Pring, one of the first names on the team sheet under NP.

 

 

Left him with no cover ahead of him as Twine constantly drifts infield to where he wants to play. Playing left back and left midfield at the same time would challenge any player. And Cam probably isn’t enjoying the experience either, which is also likely to affect his performances.

[Super]

1 hour ago, BCFC31 said:

Roberts did more in 15 mins after coming on off the bench then pring has done all season.

Pring always looks like he's carrying a bit too much.

[Loosey Boy]

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Left him with no cover ahead of him as Twine constantly drifts infield to where he wants to play. Playing left back and left midfield at the same time would challenge any player. And Cam probably isn’t enjoying the experience either, which is also likely to affect his performances.

Expect to see Twine in the 10 moving forward after the last two results - no messing, Liam…..

This will allow us to have more stability on the left - we either need to play Mehmeti or Roberts (or even give Sincs a go there?) in front of Cam and then that gives him what he needs to return to form…..as others have said, felt sorry for him in last couple of games as Twine has left him exposed

[Olé]

2 hours ago, Jose said:

Anyone want to suggest just one player that has improved under him? Just one?

Andi Weimann? Got in the playoffs and has 3 goals already this season.

[Fuber]

4 hours ago, Randy Marsh II said:

I'm yet to see a performance from Twine that merits the money and attention we gave the signing. This season or last. 

First sub appearance he changed the game.

He needs to be central. Yu needs to be wide. Drop Bird back. Focus on the press - its what we're best at.

[Mendip City]

4 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

For me all 3 of williams sykes and pring would be no where near my starting 11 going off there seasons so far all 3 have been abysmal. It's simple play bird deeper along sign knight move twine into the number 10 position bench williams replace pring with Roberts replace sykes with hirakawa the only issue is we don't have any left wingers who I trust at the club I have seen enough of mehmeti and I'm sick of the sight of him to be honest.

Agree with that…. But the question for me is what’s happened to Williams, Pring, Sykes? Why has their form dropped so much? Too complicated a way of playing? Over coached, overloaded with info? Just not feeling it? I think Vyner is another, less extreme example and Knight has dropped off this season. What’s going on? We’ve seen all of them perform well at this level previously? 

[Mendip City]

2 hours ago, Loosey Boy said:

Expect to see Twine in the 10 moving forward after the last two results - no messing, Liam…..

This will allow us to have more stability on the left - we either need to play Mehmeti or Roberts (or even give Sincs a go there?) in front of Cam and then that gives him what he needs to return to form…..as others have said, felt sorry for him in last couple of games as Twine has left him exposed

Trouble is, this should have happened yesterday and didn’t…. Why do we think it will happen next week? He’s stubborn. Super-stubborn. 

[Sleepy1968]

18 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Trouble is, this should have happened yesterday and didn’t…. Why do we think it will happen next week? He’s stubborn. Super-stubborn. 

Or just doesn't know what to do. Or both.

[Sleepy1968]

5 hours ago, fly in the air said:

That first goal was embarrassing  what the hell was max thinking. 

5 hours ago, Mike Stone said:

Agreed, but Williams wasnt switched on to the situation at all.

That ball out was always going to catch us out at some point. It's as risky as it is predictable. And it's not like we achieve much by it, even on the occasions we get it out to an advanced fullback rather than playing it back to the keeper.

[robin_unreliant]

35 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Trouble is, this should have happened yesterday and didn’t…. Why do we think it will happen next week? He’s stubborn. Super-stubborn. 

Or possibly just not very good at his job.

[Midred]

24 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Or possibly just not very good at his job.

And as for the 'Technical Director' whose probably in his ear all the time!

[Mr Chappers]

So we spent the whole summer chasing a player who can only play in one specific role? Summer recruitment looking like a real mess, with a glut of ‘No 10’s’!! So after 46 years of watching City, a Number 10 suddenly becomes the key!!

As for yesterday, dire!

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

Agree with that…. But the question for me is what’s happened to Williams, Pring, Sykes? Why has their form dropped so much? Too complicated a way of playing? Over coached, overloaded with info? Just not feeling it? I think Vyner is another, less extreme example and Knight has dropped off this season. What’s going on? We’ve seen all of them perform well at this level previously? 

Knight is the player that epitomises for me the issue of trying to play possession football with this squad. He and Williams both are mediocre at complete best with the ball at their feet. Their general passing and technique are limited. Teams, such as Blackburn, Derby; have now realised they simply have to press us centrally (as we don't play down the wings anyway with no natural width with Twine and Sykes tucking in)

The problem is that its becoming evident that the players who most can't get to grips with this system (Pring, Wiliams, Knight, among others) were signed to fit NPs system which we didnt consider 'fashionable' enough, are then shoe-horned into another managers system expecting it to work.

Knight and Pring were best under NP because played on the counter where their pace and press were at their best. Knight for me is the worst of our midfielders in possession as he cant actually pass the ball with much pace due to the technique he uses, which is something that cannot really be coached - meaning hes only really any good at playing the ball in front of his target(s), ergo in possession what should be a pass into feet has a tendency to become short, and intercepted - its happened multiple times to the extent that Nakhi has a better pass success-rate in the league when usually PS% drops the higher up the pitch position wise you go (76.3% versus 79.8% per WhoScored)

The problem with that is that the person who appointed Manning (Tinnion) is the same person who was in overall charge of player recruitment for the second year onwards aside from when Alexander was chair/CEO of NPs spell in charge (Tinnion).

Its almost as if it (sacking NP) was a shortsighted decision of the basis of not being able to compromise (such as how Gould and Alexander did with NP) when home-truths were told about the squad - when we needed evolution not revolution. Which is a shame when I think NP would have loved to have managed the likes of Bird, Armstrong, Hirakawa, and Mayulu in the same way he partnered/setup Weimann, Semenyo, Martin.

Edited Sunday at 13:47 by Fuber

[bearded_red]

6 hours ago, Randy Marsh II said:

I'm yet to see a performance from Twine that merits the money and attention we gave the signing. This season or last. 

A staggeringly overrated footballer.

Didn’t I read on here he was one of the five most exciting signings in the history of the club? I know we have a fairly miserable history, but my word..

If he could stand up for five minutes at a time without diving on the floor he may have some use.

[Mr Popodopolous]

We were moving towards Possession under NP tbh. Think the final third of 2022-23, vs bottom third sides to begin with. We also still had Scott..

The switch to 4-3-3 perhaps assisted too.

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Midred said:

And as for the 'Technical Director' whose probably in his ear all the time!

I do worry about the - "we speak 8 or 9 times a day" stuff.  Why?

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

That's because we are yet to see him in his best position that's not on the player it's on the head coach.

I think this is a poor excuse. 

We saw him in his best position last season and still he was average. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I do worry about the - "we speak 8 or 9 times a day" stuff.  Why?

Why would they speak 8 or 9 times a day if Tinnion isn't Mannings day to day boss? 

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

Roberts did more in 15 mins after coming on off the bench then pring has done all season.

Perhaps you need to ask how pring & Sykes are being asked to play . Pring is basically left on his own with no help from twine who is nothing but a passenger most of the time . Sykes is playing with his back to goal which isn’t his game . So , look for reasons why players ain’t playing well 

[Midred]

52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I do worry about the - "we speak 8 or 9 times a day" stuff.  Why?

I did speculate yesterday about how much influence he has in team selection and tactics. Granted he's had some say in the signings but after that it's down to the coach/manager. If he is 'helping' to select the team then he is complicit in the outcomes.

[Midred]

In the match at Derby Armstrong seemed to be covering for Twine on the left which of course left him out of his position of centre forward.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It seems a bit of a shapeless mess.

Trying to think how it could work.. 

GK

Back 4

Bird, Williams and Knight all in Central Areas

If Twine has a purely free role then yes Sykes can stay right, that barrier of 3 can help..because Bird and Twine may not be crowding rsch ofher out then.

If Twine has a purely free Role then Armstrong can pull left, you'd need more of a False 9 than Twine though.

         GK

    Back 4

Bird Knight

Sykes Twine Yu

       Striker

?

[Nomad]

56 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why would they speak 8 or 9 times a day if Tinnion isn't Mannings day to day boss? 

Adjacent offices and that take turns getting the tea and coffee?

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Adjacent offices and that take turns getting the tea and coffee?

And a shared love for strictly come dancing? 

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, Midred said:

I did speculate yesterday about how much influence he has in team selection and tactics. Granted he's had some say in the signings but after that it's down to the coach/manager. If he is 'helping' to select the team then he is complicit in the outcomes.

Oh, I don’t think this gameplan / tactics come from Tinnion at all…this is Manning / City Group all over.  Manning has asked and has got everything he asked for.

Team selection?  I bloody hope not.

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

And a shared love for strictly come dancing? 

No, that’s Nige, if that was the case, Tinnion would have been fox-trotting at the HPC, instead it was fox-trot Oscar!

[spudski]

8 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

Roberts did more in 15 mins after coming on off the bench then pring has done all season.

I rate Roberts. I'd like him to start. 

I think Pring will be looking for a move soon. 

[Dullmoan Tone]

8 hours ago, Jose said:

Id say all season he’s been a shadow of a player. 
 

Common theme here, Manning is taking these players backwards rather than improving them. Anyone want to suggest just one player that has improved under him? Just one?

Tanner!

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 hours ago, Jose said:

Common theme here, Manning is taking these players backwards rather than improving them. Anyone want to suggest just one player that has improved under him? Just one?

Conway? Two goals in four, for Boro

[maxjak]

Jesus on a surfboard!    When OLE'  states that, the performance is IN the worst 5 he has ever witnessed in his long and extremely well observed ongoing analysis of City games...................I then begin to seriously worry about our current manager's ability to turn it around?    Manning has had free reign as to who he recruits, he has 2 weeks between games to train, organise and instigate a tactical plan to combat the mistakes that were made at Derby, yet he has failed miserably  in every sense of the word?   I am prepared to allow for the occasional misstep during the process of setting up a team which has an abundance of new players settling into a new system....................but for pheck sake, this displays a lack of tactical awareness and a naivety that is inexcusable?   Too much talk and very little action IMO,      Sort it  out Manning, your honeymoon is over,  talk is cheap, and a serious response is needed ASAP.

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do worry about the - "we speak 8 or 9 times a day" stuff.  Why?

Guess they are trying to work out WTF to do.

Haven’t cracked it yet.

[fisherrich]

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Jesus on a surfboard!    When OLE'  states that, the performance is IN the worst 5 he has ever witnessed in his long and extremely well observed ongoing analysis of City games...................I then begin to seriously worry about our current manager's ability to turn it around?    Manning has had free reign as to who he recruits, he has 2 weeks between games to train, organise and instigate a tactical plan to combat the mistakes that were made at Derby, yet he has failed miserably  in every sense of the word?   I am prepared to allow for the occasional misstep during the process of setting up a team which has an abundance of new players settling into a new system....................but for pheck sake, this displays a lack of tactical awareness and a naivety that is inexcusable?   Too much talk and very little action IMO,      Sort it  out Manning, your honeymoon is over,  talk is cheap, and a serious response is needed ASAP.

Like many have stated, it was a rediculous appointment at the time. Just an unproven punt on some guy who had no Championship experience. He may improve/turn it around, but he is out of his depth, and currently sinking. The whole structure at Bristol Sport is wrong. The football club needs a precise focus on the football. Until changes happen, it will be more of the same.

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think this is a poor excuse. 

We saw him in his best position last season and still he was average. 

There were glimpses of what he could do - the free kick for example, which we've needed in regards to a dead ball specialist for a while.

We were much better with him in the team. The wider problem (pun intended) is our wingers arent good enough in possession to change games - not smart enough (making space for themselves) to help break down teams who sit back. Now he's wasted out wide.

The former (re wingers) is the entire reason NP played on the break as it meant that you didnt have to worry about breaking teams down - you could break them on the transition instead.

I still rate Twine over Mehmeti for example - so think its less an issue with Twine and that our wingers are genuinely average - but the system really isnt helping.

[Fuber]

27 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Tanner!

Tanner was doing very well at the end of Pearson's reign as well - during that period when McCorie was out injured, and even backfilled at LB with no complaints and got on with it.

I'd argue his progression is coming with the more games he plays - irrespective of manager. Mehmeti possibly? - but then NP didnt rate him, which I don't disagree with.

Aside from him - there are plenty (unfortunately) looking worse. Knight, Vyner, Pring to name but a few.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

1 minute ago, Fuber said:

Tanner was doing very well at the end of Pearson's reign as well - during that period when McCorie was out injured, and even backfilled at LB with no complaints and got on with it.

I'd argue his progression is coming with the more games he plays - irrespective of manager. Mehmeti possibly? - but then NP didnt rate him, which I don't disagree with.

Aside from him - there are plenty (unfortunately) looking worse. Knight, Vyner, Pring to name but a few.

Sykes and also Conway before he left can be added to the having got worse list.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

11 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

True, but, oddly, came on against England and was very influential.

 

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Even Knight’s position is under pressure.  Last couple of games he’s been a shadow of the player.

I'm trying very ******* hard to give manning 10 games before I pass judgement.  But the last two performances have been shocking.  The warning signs were there with Millwall.

Knight is a fine example of a player who's cognitively overloaded.  Let him do what he does well, high energy, and move the ball forward at speed as in England Vs Ireland bosh he delivers the goods.  Over complicate the game and have him having to overthink the game and he's spends more time on the ball and is looking slow and over coached.  

If Manning does go back to basics and he keeps it simple we could see a good bounce at home to Oxford.  But if he rams more shit into the players then expect more of the same.

I'm a firm believer in giving players the shape and direction but then letting them do the rest their way.

[Dullmoan Tone]

2 hours ago, Fuber said:

I'd argue his progression is coming with the more games he plays - irrespective of manager.

The challenge was to name just one player who has progressed- we seem to agree Tanner, yet his progression is now nothing to do with the manager, while all the poor performers are presumably the fault of the Manager - surely you can see the confirmation bias in this argument?

[sticks 1969]

3 hours ago, maxjak said:

Jesus on a surfboard!    When OLE'  states that, the performance is IN the worst 5 he has ever witnessed in his long and extremely well observed ongoing analysis of City games...................I then begin to seriously worry about our current manager's ability to turn it around?    Manning has had free reign as to who he recruits, he has 2 weeks between games to train, organise and instigate a tactical plan to combat the mistakes that were made at Derby, yet he has failed miserably  in every sense of the word?   I am prepared to allow for the occasional misstep during the process of setting up a team which has an abundance of new players settling into a new system....................but for pheck sake, this displays a lack of tactical awareness and a naivety that is inexcusable?   Too much talk and very little action IMO,      Sort it  out Manning, your honeymoon is over,  talk is cheap, and a serious response is needed ASAP.

My thoughts exactly 

when OLE, says it bad then it must be bad …. 

[redsquirrel]

43 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

 

I'm trying very ******* hard to give manning 10 games before I pass judgement.  But the last two performances have been shocking.  The warning signs were there with Millwall.

Knight is a fine example of a player who's cognitively overloaded.  Let him do what he does well, high energy, and move the ball forward at speed as in England Vs Ireland bosh he delivers the goods.  Over complicate the game and have him having to overthink the game and he's spends more time on the ball and is looking slow and over coached.  

If Manning does go back to basics and he keeps it simple we could see a good bounce at home to Oxford.  But if he rams more shit into the players then expect more of the same.

I'm a firm believer in giving players the shape and direction but then letting them do the rest their way.

he did say after his shit start here that he had overloaded the players with info. time on the grass isnt going to improve that, some sort of head  doctor/trainer is needed to extend someones learning capabilities

edit. i mean expand the amount of info that can be absorbed, nothing else.

Edited Sunday at 19:50 by redsquirrel

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

 

I'm trying very ******* hard to give manning 10 games before I pass judgement.  But the last two performances have been shocking.  The warning signs were there with Millwall.

Knight is a fine example of a player who's cognitively overloaded.  Let him do what he does well, high energy, and move the ball forward at speed as in England Vs Ireland bosh he delivers the goods.  Over complicate the game and have him having to overthink the game and he's spends more time on the ball and is looking slow and over coached.  

If Manning does go back to basics and he keeps it simple we could see a good bounce at home to Oxford.  But if he rams more shit into the players then expect more of the same.

I'm a firm believer in giving players the shape and direction but then letting them do the rest their way.

You are right.

He needs to play as an 8.  That’s where he’s best.  LM’s current set-up doesn’t play with an 8.

Just talking off the top of my head, I wonder if we could create a system with a front 6 of:

Twine (LW) Armstrong (CF) Sykes (RW)

       Bird (8)                  Knight (8)

                   McGuane (6)

You could argue it’s 433 or even 4141.

But Knight is not at his best playing from so deep.  He would run beyond Armstrong (or Mayulu) too.

 

[redkev]

12 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

Roberts did more in 15 mins after coming on off the bench then pring has done all season.

Prings form has fell off a cliff for me 

[ray savino]

One thing I did notice throughout the game, was that when a City player was on the ball they were often gesturing with arms up  for someone to take a pass. It looked like a side that lacked movement, energy and any ideas. That was what worried me most as I thought we would have been well drilled and up for a positive response to the Derby fiasco.

I have to admit, when Pearson went, I thought Eustace would be a useful replacement. I felt he was a flexible and shrewd enough coach to progress the side and style without too much fuss. Sad that he evidently turned us down (or we weren’t interested). As for Manning, never been massively convinced, fleeting glimpses of decent football on a few occasions, but doesn’t seem flexible in his approach. I think a coach has to be at this level at times due to quality of players and squad depth.

I’m loath to get into this sack them culture that pervades a lot of football nowadays, but finding it hard to see him being the answer to taking us forward. 

However, I think we have to let him have at least 10 - 15 games to show that he can turn this around. If performances are still uninspiring then we have to cut our losses, all be it our unconvincing record of choosing good football management lies with the people who I think need either replacing or at least a sizeable injection of fresh ideas, support and even money. Not confident we’ll ever get the right football infrastructure until we get a board of directors that have renewed energy, ambition and vision for this club. 

I just think things have been stale for ages despite the odd decent performance which trick us into thinking we’ve turned the corner. Trouble is we all seem a bit scared of the dark spectre of new owners being dodgy asset strippers, etc. Maybe we might strike lucky with dynamic and good new owners though. Who knows? Perhaps the club marketed motto shouldn’t be ”Always Believe“ but more ”Be Careful What You Wish For“.

Whatever happens, I just want us to see us compete in games with a bit of energy and desire, things so evidently missing from the last 2 abject performances. I do believe we have capable players, Manning has got to get the starting 11 blend right and make changes to adapt when things aren’t working during a game.  

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

he did say after his shit start here that he had overloaded the players with info. time on the grass isnt going to improve that, some sort of head  doctor/trainer is needed to extend someones learning capabilities

edit. i mean expand the amount of info that can be absorbed, nothing else.

The science for this has been done over and over and it's fixed.  For example if your driving a car, and trying to solve complex problems that involve accessing stored information, what you're doing subconsciously suffers and you're 4x more likely to crash your car.  It's actually worse than using a mobile.

It's very hard to increase the cognitive capacity of someone, it's generally fairly fixed.

Remember were not talking intelligence were talking the number of things you can do simultaneously without effecting the things your doing subconsciously or football skills,muscle memory etc.

So to apply that to football from the driving analogy.  The more complex a set of instructions you're trying to play to, the more likely you are to trip over your boots.  Players are better off using their own attributes, to a simple playbook to operate at peak performance.

[redsquirrel]

so much better put than my botched attempt, that tells me if the  cognitive capacity (thank you for description)  is fixed and the players are overloaded,we have the wrong players for what he wants. regardless of how skillful they are with their feet

[The Constant Rabbit]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do worry about the - "we speak 8 or 9 times a day" stuff.  Why?

Because BT needs constant reassurance that LM is still 'on message' with who is in charge.

 

I remember being at a charity function in the early 2000's where a lot of players and managers of various clubs were in attendance.

A well performed manager was leaving and BT couldn't wait to rush over and gush about how well this managers side was doing and how well players were playing for his team. This manager had a very successful career.

As soon as he left, BT couldn't wait to tell anyone how much better he would do in a very disparaging way.

 

It wasn't what he said that shocked people, its the fact he said it out loud when people had just heard him praising the person to his face not 5 mins earlier.

 

He's a wrong 'un.

Edited Sunday at 22:55 by The Constant Rabbit

[Fuber]

3 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

The challenge was to name just one player who has progressed- we seem to agree Tanner, yet his progression is now nothing to do with the manager, while all the poor performers are presumably the fault of the Manager - surely you can see the confirmation bias in this argument?

To a degree.

My point was more that in the thought that Tanners role generally hasn't changed under NP to now. I.e. rotating between full back or right side of back three. Dont think you can say Tanner has improved to any great degree to where its noticeable, to be honest, that isn't a side effect of the style in play. I.e. more possession meaning less likely to be caught out of position as often, and he's always been cautious in possession.

Generally think he would have improved the more he played no matter who was in charge as hes always been consistent and aware of his ljmits. Doesn't help him (nor Manning) that Vyner behind is looking worse each game at the moment, ergo how you'd attribute him a rating (such as the last two games) becomes more difficult.

As a comparison. Even LJ improved the likes of Pack to a noticeable degree (the blind inside pass, feints, etc), Reid, Bryan, Webster, all thrived under him. Not just one player, and I was one of LJs biggest critiques.

As its just Tanner, it becomes a question of whether it's just down to him as an Individual. I'd exped at least some correlation with others in the squad.

[JP Hampton]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Even Knight’s position is under pressure.  Last couple of games he’s been a shadow of the player.

Agree. Not sure I see leadership qualities in him as yet. Might be different in the changing room, but not seeing it on the pitch, he should be leading from the front with a 100% work rate.