The Worst League start since..?

[Robbored]

4 hours ago, jj77 said:

what's Dean Holden up to nowadays?

In Saudi - number two to Steven Gerrard. Raking in the dosh no doubt.

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

No, that was much later, around 1996 at a guess. 

July ‘97.

16 minutes ago, Malago said:

1998/99 under John Ward, we lost or drew the first 8 games before beating Crewe 5-1 in the ninth.

5-2.

Forgotten how horrendously badly we started that season under Ward.

Strangely he had started to turn it around before back to back away defeats at Port Vale & Grimsby (incredible to think that they were Championship clubs) did for him, even though we beat Bolton on Sky in his final match.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I suppose an underlying point is that this start is rather bad. It really does rank poorly at our level.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Hey @cotswoldred2 our worst in 8 or  9 years, anything constructive to add?

[Mr Popodopolous]

PPS..not just a bad start.

We know it is the worst since the 2015-16 under Cotts but..

2014-15 (League One, Cotts)- Nope

2013-14 (League One, O'Driscoll)- Yep

2012-13- (Championship, McInnes)- Nope

2011-12- (Championship, Millen)- The same, GD this time worse.

2010-11- (Championship, Coppell and Millen)- The same, GD this time worse.

2009-10- (Championship, GJ)- Nope

2008-09- (Championship, GJ)- Nope

2007-08- (Championship, GJ)- Nope

2006-07- (League One, GJ)- Nope

2005-06- (League One, Tinnion)- The same, this time GD worse.

2004-05- (League One, Tinnion)- YES. YES. 2 points from 5..awful.

2003-04- (League One, Wilson)- No

2002-03- (League One, Wilson)- No

2001-02- (League One, Wilson)- No

2000-01- (League One, Wilson)- YES..3 points from 5, pretty terrible.

1999-00- (League One, Pulis)- No

1998-99- (Championship, Ward)- Yes, 3 draws from 5..disappointing.

[LondonBristolian]

For me, the issue isn’t so much how many points we take from the first five games - a stuttering start doesn’t necessarily make for a bad season - but more how much worse we look in the fourth and fifth games than the first and second. 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

For me, the issue isn’t so much how many points we take from the first five games - a stuttering start doesn’t necessarily make for a bad season - but more how much worse we look in the fourth and fifth games than the first and second. 

I think this is it. With the number of new players we have concentrated in a certain area of the pitch (I.e bar McNally all signings are “top half”) you would naturally expect some time to gel. I remember saying that we shouldn’t judge Yu early - good or bad - for example yet we have some who already think he’s the messiah on Twitter.

(Side note - this is why our business in the summer - although as I’ve said, looking decent bar Twine - although a lot of punts , happened too late in part. If you have a head coach whose mantra is time on the grass and a hugely planned pre season you get the players in early. But that cannot be an excuse as it’s the clubs doing)

But what you would expect to see is not necessarily “linear” progression, but broad progression. Things slightly clicking game by game - maybe not reflected in results (as said many times, they lag performance often), but certainly in how we’re playing. But we’ve  got the opposite - we’ve got broad regression. And that has to be a worrying sign.

To quote the MK Dons fan when Liam joined: “When we were in a tailspin he didn’t seem to know how to turn it around”…..

[TDarwall]

39 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

But what you would expect to see is not necessarily “linear” progression, but broad progression. 

I think, maybe, he actually needs less time on the grass!

[formerly known as ivan]

11 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Sense of humour?

Ah, sorry about that then, we seem to have different sense of humours…

[Oh Louie louie]

That start under ward, some of the defending was unreal, by the time we played crewe in the league ward and grady had got into a verbal spat, I do recall grady saying we are a bigger club cause we got a bigger attendance in the league cup match??! Next time he spoke to the press about us he accused his players of being scared to go near the corners cause it was too close to our fans!

[MarcusX]

On 16/09/2024 at 13:54, italian dave said:

I’ve added our final league position each season, and come to the conclusion that it makes little difference!

Our Best and worst starts saw us finish one place different!

and in both those seasons we replaced our manager didn't we? I wonder how many teams can say that too 

[Oh Louie louie]

Funny enough i was watching Graham Stuart talking about his time at Everton the game when Everton had to beat Wimbledon to stay up on the last day of the season, he then said the luckiest win I ever saw us was away at Bristol city in the cup, they absolutely pummled us he said 

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

For me, the issue isn’t so much how many points we take from the first five games - a stuttering start doesn’t necessarily make for a bad season - but more how much worse we look in the fourth and fifth games than the first and second. 

This is what's frustrated me.

If most of the season was like Millwall and we won a few and lost a few then at least you can say there was entertainment. That game was well worth the entry fee (and the 6 hour round trip for me to get to AG and home)

Even the start of the Derby game was good, very good in fact. We ripped them apart, I honestly thought we were going to batter them.

I'm not quite ready to start screaming Manning Out, and I didn't actually bother booing on Saturday (although if he went I wouldn't be bothered) but I'm concerned at how completely clueless we look once a team has worked us out. So far I'd say that's second half v Coventry in the cup, 70 minutes against Derby and 90 minutes against Blackburn. I still think Millwall was just a weird one, they didn't really suss us out and stop us they just came out flying in the second half and we were rabbit in the headlights really (and a bad penalty decision which helps further swing momentum). We did very well to regain composure and win that game.

 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

For me, the issue isn’t so much how many points we take from the first five games - a stuttering start doesn’t necessarily make for a bad season - but more how much worse we look in the fourth and fifth games than the first and second. 

I agree (although first half at Derby I thought we looked pretty good) but it was as much the manner as anything.

When we went behind v Millwall there seemed to be an absolute almost palpable belief in the players body language that we knew we were going to pull those two goals back.

Contrast the last two games; when we went there was an almost palpable sense that we’d given up and knew we’d lost those games. 

Thats the worry for me. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think this is it. With the number of new players we have concentrated in a certain area of the pitch (I.e bar McNally all signings are “top half”) you would naturally expect some time to gel. I remember saying that we shouldn’t judge Yu early - good or bad - for example yet we have some who already think he’s the messiah on Twitter.

(Side note - this is why our business in the summer - although as I’ve said, looking decent bar Twine - although a lot of punts , happened too late in part. If you have a head coach whose mantra is time on the grass and a hugely planned pre season you get the players in early. But that cannot be an excuse as it’s the clubs doing)

But what you would expect to see is not necessarily “linear” progression, but broad progression. Things slightly clicking game by game - maybe not reflected in results (as said many times, they lag performance often), but certainly in how we’re playing. But we’ve  got the opposite - we’ve got broad regression. And that has to be a worrying sign.

To quote the MK Dons fan when Liam joined: “When we were in a tailspin he didn’t seem to know how to turn it around”…..

I agree with you on the importance of early signings, and with your disappointment how that worked out this summer, but I’m not sure that you can put that down to it being “the club’s doing”. I doubt very much it was their choice, or even that there’s much that was avoidable.

We signed Mayulu 1st July and Armstrong mid July - both OK. We signed Bird very early! It was hardly the club’s doing that Yu got picked for the Olympics and then injured. Or that Burnley’s managerial changes quite likely delayed what would otherwise have been a more straightforward deal.

That really just leaves McGuane - a late one, agreed, but essentially a swap over for TGH as a bench option - and McNally - likely prompted by the injury to Dickie.

We’ve done better…..but we’ve also done a lot worse, and I’m not sure it was for want of trying this summer. 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, italian dave said:

I agree with you on the importance of early signings, and with your disappointment how that worked out this summer, but I’m not sure that you can put that down to it being “the club’s doing”. I doubt very much it was their choice, or even that there’s much that was avoidable.

We signed Mayulu 1st July and Armstrong mid July - both OK. We signed Bird very early! It was hardly the club’s doing that Yu got picked for the Olympics and then injured. Or that Burnley’s managerial changes quite likely delayed what would otherwise have been a more straightforward deal.

That really just leaves McGuane - a late one, agreed, but essentially a swap over for TGH as a bench option - and McNally - likely prompted by the injury to Dickie.

We’ve done better…..but we’ve also done a lot worse, and I’m not sure it was for want of trying this summer. 

I suppose the one that really frustrates me is Twine (and by extension Stokes). I’m obviously not a fan, but it isn’t a case that Burnley’s managerial situation delayed things - they were active when Parker hadn’t been appointed; selling Peacock-Farrell and appointing new (non head) coaches.

Had we come up with the cash, it would have been a straightforward deal early. Been done to death mind!

There was a school of thought on here that it didn’t matter if we got Twine later as he was a “known quantity” but that ignores the fact he’d never played with Armstrong, Bird, Mayulu, Earthy, Yu etc - because of where he plays, he’d have to forge new key relationships and that obviously delays positive impact. See how he’s been getting in Birds space since coming into the team - the understanding isn’t there yet.

And the by extension Stokes piece is that in no way I’m saying that Josh would have set this division on fire. But from the brief parts I saw of him I was very enthused. And he’s had that pre season (and time here last year), he’s done well on his loan so there’s “something” there. However the late Earthy and Twine signings pushed him out.
 

The “biggest bit” in the clubs summer business was chasing a player with an indifferent loan spell and getting it done late in the window when the intent was that he was your key man. And then shoehorning him in when the team were performing (by everyone’s view in view of the downturn in form) better without him. I’m more than happy to say that’s on the club (collective)

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I agree with you on the importance of early signings, and with your disappointment how that worked out this summer, but I’m not sure that you can put that down to it being “the club’s doing”. I doubt very much it was their choice, or even that there’s much that was avoidable.

We signed Mayulu 1st July and Armstrong mid July - both OK. We signed Bird very early! It was hardly the club’s doing that Yu got picked for the Olympics and then injured. Or that Burnley’s managerial changes quite likely delayed what would otherwise have been a more straightforward deal.

That really just leaves McGuane - a late one, agreed, but essentially a swap over for TGH as a bench option - and McNally - likely prompted by the injury to Dickie.

We’ve done better…..but we’ve also done a lot worse, and I’m not sure it was for want of trying this summer. 

It's probably the one that you haven't mentioned which is sticking in people's minds tbf

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

For me, the issue isn’t so much how many points we take from the first five games - a stuttering start doesn’t necessarily make for a bad season - but more how much worse we look in the fourth and fifth games than the first and second. 

I still think we have yet to see more than a couple / few 90-minute performances.  And by that I don’t mean dominating 90-minutes, that’s unrealistic.  I don’t think we control as much of games as Manning thinks we do - quote pre-Blackburn “we’ve controlled 3 1/2 out of 4 games”.  We are back to being unable to resist pressure.  Some games we will get away with it, it’s a low scoring sport.  Even Hull (a) who were dogshit, we came under pressure in the final third of the game and looked edgy.  I think teams know where to hurt us, and I’m not convinced we have “coping strategies” we are told we have.

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think this is it. With the number of new players we have concentrated in a certain area of the pitch (I.e bar McNally all signings are “top half”) you would naturally expect some time to gel. I remember saying that we shouldn’t judge Yu early - good or bad - for example yet we have some who already think he’s the messiah on Twitter.

(Side note - this is why our business in the summer - although as I’ve said, looking decent bar Twine - although a lot of punts , happened too late in part. If you have a head coach whose mantra is time on the grass and a hugely planned pre season you get the players in early. But that cannot be an excuse as it’s the clubs doing)

But what you would expect to see is not necessarily “linear” progression, but broad progression. Things slightly clicking game by game - maybe not reflected in results (as said many times, they lag performance often), but certainly in how we’re playing. But we’ve  got the opposite - we’ve got broad regression. And that has to be a worrying sign.

To quote the MK Dons fan when Liam joined: “When we were in a tailspin he didn’t seem to know how to turn it around”…..

I started watching series 1 of “Mission to Burnley” last night.  McNally twice getting a bit of “feedback” (shall we say) from Kompany in 30 secs of training footage.

Hirakawa looked reasonably sharp on Saturday, so that’s at least a positive.

The only problem with expecting progression (of any shape) is that surely other teams are also going to improve, so it kinda negates ours to some extent.

There really should be no excuses from this Saturday onwards.  There weren’t any before, but if he can’t react to what has happened this season, and it’s not just two 3-0s, then he never will.  If he can’t see how more lively Twine was in the last half hour playing 10, he never will.  I’ve just rewatched all Twine’s action s from 59th minute onwards, he was much more mobile (willing?), dropping in, getting involved, driving into the box, linking up with Roberts and Hirakawa.  He has to play central.

27 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

This is what's frustrated me.

If most of the season was like Millwall and we won a few and lost a few then at least you can say there was entertainment. That game was well worth the entry fee (and the 6 hour round trip for me to get to AG and home)

Even the start of the Derby game was good, very good in fact. We ripped them apart, I honestly thought we were going to batter them.

I'm not quite ready to start screaming Manning Out, and I didn't actually bother booing on Saturday (although if he went I wouldn't be bothered) but I'm concerned at how completely clueless we look once a team has worked us out. So far I'd say that's second half v Coventry in the cup, 70 minutes against Derby and 90 minutes against Blackburn. I still think Millwall was just a weird one, they didn't really suss us out and stop us they just came out flying in the second half and we were rabbit in the headlights really (and a bad penalty decision which helps further swing momentum). We did very well to regain composure and win that game.

 

If most of the season was like Millwall, you might have excitement, but I still think most fans really want results.  Most fans are fickle.  They say they want entertainment, but I don’t believe them!

The Derby game was good until it wasn’t!!  Back to my earlier point, we find it hard to wrestle a game back…or we allow it to becomes end to end with no control from either side.

Millwall, they were building from 25 mins into the game, just didn’t score until after the break.  That 20 mins before half-time was not much different to the 20 mins afterwards.  In fact, just checking, it was Leonard’s chance at the far post on 24 mins that hit the post, that might have been the trigger for us to have doubts over our 2-0 lead.

I’m not screaming Manning out either.  I did my screaming (wasn’t really screaming, just a this is what I’d do) back in March.  The hierarchy will do what they want.  I’m not really into scenario planning like - “if we lose Saturday v Oxford…”, I’d rather reflect on what does happen.

All I really want is Manning to show courage in his convictions, whether that is proving his “plan” was right all along, it was just a gel issue, or deciding it wasn’t and be able to come up with a credible alternative.  He needs to prove he can progress Bristol City. All he’s done so far in 36 league games in charge, being a little generous, is show he can get similar results playing differently.  Whoopy-effing-do.  If you wanna add context like resources given to him, that makes it a poorer achievement, but let’s leave it at results for now.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m more than happy to say that’s on the club (collective)

I think some (not Italian Dave btw) see the word “club” mentioned and get all defensive, thinking it must be criticism of Jon or Brian or Steve.  As you say it’s a collective, just like recruitment in and out.

Once we get to Matchday, it’s Liam and his team (Hogg and Krause primarily).

[One Team]

19 hours ago, jj77 said:

what's Dean Holden up to nowadays?

As @Robbored has mentioned above he’s now assistant to Steve Gerrard at Al Ettifaq in Saudi Arabia, he signed a contract extension to 2027 in the summer.

I had the pleasure of meeting Deano on holiday a couple of months ago and he was a proper gentleman and very happy to spend some time with my mates and I talking all things City and indeed his current role.

He’s loving things out there (no doubt the money helps!) and working with SG, they get on really well. 

He’s got a lot of love and respect for City and especially the fans, although is disappointed as to how things ended; as he said to me, we’d made a great start that season and in his view were not too far away come the end. He was also disappointed to not have been manager with fans in the ground due to the COVID period. 

I thought he was OK during his time with us, but having met him personally and seen his passion for football and love for us he went right up in my estimation, a thoroughly decent man and football professional. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

The 25 seasons aren't too relevant perhaps but it doesn't score well.

Also what @LondonBristolian said.

[cotswoldred2]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The 25 seasons aren't too relevant perhaps but it doesn't score well.

Also what @LondonBristolian said.

FFS stop it there is enough doom and gloom around without you digging up archives just to prove just how shit we are, take a break.

Anyway since you are in the gloom room, I remember having a conversation with the then Cheltenham F.C Stadium Manager whilst leaning on his new Ferra...Fiesta, some years back talking about out points total after TEN matches, we had THREE!!!

Kinda think it was GJ era but 

Edited yesterday at 12:33 by cotswoldred2

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

FFS stop it there is enough doom and gloom around without you digging up archives just to prove just how shit we are, take a break.way  Anyway since you are in the gloom room, I remember having a conversation with the then Cheltenham F.C Stadium Manager whilst leaning on his new Ferra...Fiesta, some years back talking about out points total after TEN matches, we had THREE!!!

Kinda think it was GJ era but 

Well I'm taking a break on and off, less posting than usual.

3 from 10 you say?? Wow. It's just that after the investment..the bottoming out then steady improvement and on paper an okay start (in terms of opponents) and indeed arguably a slightly weaker League it is a bit alarming as well as disappointing.

Edited yesterday at 12:37 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

FFS stop it there is enough doom and gloom around without you digging up archives just to prove just how shit we are, take a break.

Anyway since you are in the gloom room, I remember having a conversation with the then Cheltenham F.C Stadium Manager whilst leaning on his new Ferra...Fiesta, some years back talking about out points total after TEN matches, we had THREE!!!

Kinda think it was GJ era but 

What season was that then?

And just as importantly what were the expectations of Cheltenham that season?  

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

As @Robbored has mentioned above he’s now assistant to Steve Gerrard at Al Ettifaq in Saudi Arabia, he signed a contract extension to 2027 in the summer.

I had the pleasure of meeting Deano on holiday a couple of months ago and he was a proper gentleman and very happy to spend some time with my mates and I talking all things City and indeed his current role.

He’s loving things out there (no doubt the money helps!) and working with SG, they get on really well. 

He’s got a lot of love and respect for City and especially the fans, although is disappointed as to how things ended; as he said to me, we’d made a great start that season and in his view were not too far away come the end. He was also disappointed to not have been manager with fans in the ground due to the COVID period. 

I thought he was OK during his time with us, but having met him personally and seen his passion for football and love for us he went right up in my estimation, a thoroughly decent man and football professional. 

Everyone in the football industry would agree that Deano is a real gent but ultimately that was his downfall at City. He lacked the necessary skills to make an impact on the players that he’d worked with as LJs no2 and he should never have been appointed in the first place.

What City needed back then was an experienced manager which we eventually got after DH was sacked. Nige saved us from a serious threat of relegation that season.

[italian dave]

5 hours ago, mozo said:

It's probably the one that you haven't mentioned which is sticking in people's minds tbf

Which one’s that? Earthy? Hardly the be all and end all of our summer business, I’d have thought? 

[REDOXO]

Without inserting myself in other people’s arguments, we were crap last weekend and crap for sixty minutes the week before. We were also awful for the middle 60 against Millwall and lost at home in the league cup to Coventry. 
 

What’s happened in previous seasons is relevant as a comparison, but they all have their own circumstances. 
 

What is worrying is we had two weeks to ‘bounce back’ and work on the grass and were utterly terrible!

Bringing it up and making comparisons is what forums are for! 
 

Mr Manning has a lot to think about on a number of levels. He has a way of playing and as a poster here quite brilliantly put it, plan B is to do plan A better. If that’s not worrying to people after all the promises and funding around Mr Manning then I’m not sure what is. 
 

I could whinge on about rows of numbers adding up to ten, but that’s not the problem. It’s frightened players not wanting to lose the ball and that fear means we inevitably will and do! 
 

We need a more simple approach and Mr Manning needs to deliver that and some results as being Mr Tinnions and Mr Lansdown juniors hand picked incumbent will only keep him in a job so long. 
 

SL was at the Blackburn game and must have wanted to stab his eyes out. Can you imagine the directors lounge having to have a conversation with members of their board after that! I am fuming for him!

[mozo]

39 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Which one’s that? Earthy? Hardly the be all and end all of our summer business, I’d have thought? 

Twine was who I meant. Don't think you'd mentioned him? I think the Twine/Conway situation has soured the recruitment experience for fans. I'm personally okay with our summer business, but as I've been saying for a couple of years, my own gripe is that by buying players with potential, we have to wait patiently for that potential to be realised, at the detriment of the here and now. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

Twine was who I meant. Don't think you'd mentioned him? I think the Twine/Conway situation has soured the recruitment experience for fans. I'm personally okay with our summer business, but as I've been saying for a couple of years, my own gripe is that by buying players with potential, we have to wait patiently for that potential to be realised, at the detriment of the here and now. 

We need to be careful in using the word “potential”.  For me the majority of our signings are for the HERE AND NOW with POTENTIAL to become BETTER.

Bird (Jan)

Twine

Armstrong

Mayulu

McNally

Hirakawa (loan)

were all signed under this premise, notwithstanding Mayulu and Hirakawa might need a period of settling / adjusting to life in this this country.  They weren’t signed for a year or two down the line, unlike:

Murphy

Stokes

I’ve not included:

Earthy (loan)

So, we shouldn’t be waiting patiently for their potential to be reached and thinking that’s detrimental to now, that’s just an easy excuse imho. I appreciate you might not have meant it as black and white as that.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Twine was who I meant. Don't think you'd mentioned him? I think the Twine/Conway situation has soured the recruitment experience for fans. I'm personally okay with our summer business, but as I've been saying for a couple of years, my own gripe is that by buying players with potential, we have to wait patiently for that potential to be realised, at the detriment of the here and now. 

That’s who I was talking about when I referred to Burnley’s managerial changes. (And I wasn’t really commenting on the quality of our business: the question was about whether we’d done it early enough).

I take @Silvio Dante’s points about Burnley/Twine. I just think that there are so many unknowns (to us) in there. It’s not inconceivable that Kompany had given the right indications before he left, and that someone somewhere took a different view afterwards. Yes, they carried on doing other business, but that doesn’t preclude the above. And yes, we might have played silly b****s too. Just don’t know. As @Davefevs says, it’s not my default to defend the club, but it’s not my default to find fault either, and summer transfer business is rarely straightforward.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Anyway since you are in the gloom room, I remember having a conversation with the then Cheltenham F.C Stadium Manager whilst leaning on his new Ferra...Fiesta, some years back talking about out points total after TEN matches, we had THREE!!!

Kinda think it was GJ era but 

GJ here? GJ era?

Who had 3 from 10..us or Cheltenham?

It never I was GJ here..

*GJ- 6 from 5

*GJ- 11 from 5

*GJ- 9 from 5

*GJ- 10 from 5

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We need to be careful in using the word “potential”.  For me the majority of our signings are for the HERE AND NOW with POTENTIAL to become BETTER.

Bird (Jan)

Twine

Armstrong

Mayulu

McNally

Hirakawa (loan)

were all signed under this premise, notwithstanding Mayulu and Hirakawa might need a period of settling / adjusting to life in this this country.  They weren’t signed for a year or two down the line, unlike:

Murphy

Stokes

I’ve not included:

Earthy (loan)

So, we shouldn’t be waiting patiently for their potential to be reached and thinking that’s detrimental to now, that’s just an easy excuse imho. I appreciate you might not have meant it as black and white as that.

I think there's probably some neutral area between my description and yours. 

I don't think anyone would describe Armstrong and Mayulu as top Championship strikers. What are their ages? 21 and 22? Both with limited, if any, success at this level.

You can't tell me they were recruited with a confidence that they can propel us to Championship glory in 2024/25? 

Personally, I think they're good signings with potential to get to the required level.

I think we agree on the rest. Hirakawa could hit the ground running or take some time. His track record doesn't give us clues as to how he can adapt. Again, might be next season.

Mehmeti was an example for me of a raw player that just had a low % chance of being Championship ready. Tanner was fast-tracked and adapted. TGH didn't work out.

It's all good recruitment, but it's prospective, not proven.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think there's probably some neutral area between my description and yours. 

I don't think anyone would describe Armstrong and Mayulu as top Championship strikers. What are their ages? 21 and 22? Both with limited, if any, success at this level.

You can't tell me they were recruited with a confidence that they can propel us to Championship glory in 2024/25? 

Personally, I think they're good signings with potential to get to the required level.

I think we agree on the rest. Hirakawa could hit the ground running or take some time. His track record doesn't give us clues as to how he can adapt. Again, might be next season.

Mehmeti was an example for me of a raw player that just had a low % chance of being Championship ready. Tanner was fast-tracked and adapted. TGH didn't work out.

It's all good recruitment, but it's prospective, not proven.

Agree on a lot of this.

The strikers could and should develop, the problem for them up, both individually and as a team is that when the team and then are not scoring pressure can build on all, not least young and raw strikers on whom it isn't especially fair.

TGH didnt work out perhaps because our dhape didnt suit, he was too versatile. What evidence is there that McGuane is superior e.g. 

Why wouldn't TGH be of use now in front of a pair of Bird and Knight? I reckon he could be..although the Twine issue.

TGH-Twine-Yu

Mayhe not but

 Bird Knight

     TGH

Feels better than Knight and Williams with Bird central IMO.

[mozo]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree on a lot of this.

The strikers could and should develop, the problem for them up, both individually and as a team is that when the team and then are not scoring pressure can build on all, not least young and raw strikers on whom it isn't especially fair.

TGH didnt work out perhaps because our dhape didnt suit, he was too versatile. What evidence is there that McGuane is superior e.g. 

Why wouldn't TGH be of use now in front of a pair of Bird and Knight? I reckon he could be..although the Twine issue.

TGH-Twine-Yu

Mayhe not but

 Bird Knight

     TGH

Feels better than Knight and Williams with Bird central IMO.

I might change my mind on this, but I've actually been really happy with Armstrong and I think he creates chances for others by occupying defenders. Unfortunately, our shooting boots were well and truly left at the HPC for most of our games. Williams, Sykes, Mehmeti, Knight, Wells and Twine have all been guilty of squandering chances. 

[watkins1983]

Looking back to last season in the championship after 5 games, Preston had won the first 5 games in a row and Birmingham were doing well on 11 points.

Marathon not a sprint

 

[Oh Louie louie]

2 hours ago, watkins1983 said:

Looking back to last season in the championship after 5 games, Preston had won the first 5 games in a row and Birmingham were doing well on 11 points.

Marathon not a sprint

 

Agree but the top six so far this season looking at it now I can't see much change 

[Oh Louie louie]

Infact I can't even see the top half of the table changing much looking at it, id only fancy Oxford to fall away

[rednotblue]

Meh we lost how many in a row under GJ and look what happened.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, rednotblue said:

Meh we lost how many in a row under GJ and look what happened.

 

That's a totally different context and backdrop IMO.

GJ for a good chunk of his early reign was sorting out a shitshow left by a certain Technical Director plus elements of a drinking culture that predated him.

It's underwhelming our start, not disastrous but falls short.

Edited 7 hours ago by Mr Popodopolous