Lineup v Oxford

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 15/09/2024 at 19:01, cidercity1987 said:

Terrible Champ level team. I mean Harris ffs, a trier yes but a bang average L1 player if I ever saw one.

They've lost all their away games so we should be OK, if not then it really is panic stations 

Was having a quick browse od the Oxford forum, your comments have caused quite a stir.

[Mr Popodopolous]

They seem a touchy lot Oxford fans or some of them anyway.

[Mr Popodopolous]

What I would say is that Mark Harris does have 4 Goals in 5 Championship Games which is more than ours combined to date!

[pongo88]

On 14/09/2024 at 18:48, BCFCGav said:

May be the most important line-up in his year in charge so far.

4231:

O’Leary: Tanner, Vyner, McNally, Pring: Bird, Knight: Yu, Twine, Mehmeti: Sincs.

Mehmeti is a tough pick, he’s not looked great of late. But in Bell’s absence it’s him or a youngster. A rogue shout, like Morrison (or even Naismith who has played there historically) is tempting.

Whatever he does, it has to work.

Nice attempt but you need to do the team in “manager speak”, i.e.

Maxey

Tanney, Vyney, Mc-ey, Pringey

Birdey, Knightey, 

Yuey, Twiney, Mehmey

Sincey

This gives it a more authentic feel

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What I would say is that Mark Harris does have 4 Goals in 5 Championship Games which is more than ours combined to date!

Yes, but even the most ardent Oxford fan would view Harris (before this season) as a striker who works hard, but wasn’t necessarily expected to be a big goalscorer at this level. At Xmas last season, I suspect some Oxford fans thought he was bang average Lg1 too.  He had a really good run after Xmas, and looks to have carried that on this term.

Easy to jump on his bandwagon.  They don’t know whether this is the new norm for Harris or not.

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They seem a touchy lot Oxford fans or some of them anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They seem a touchy lot Oxford fans or some of them anyway.

 

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, but even the most ardent Oxford fan would view Harris (before this season) as a striker who works hard, but wasn’t necessarily expected to be a big goalscorer at this level. At Xmas last season, I suspect some Oxford fans thought he was bang average Lg1 too.  He had a really good run after Xmas, and looks to have carried that on this term.

Easy to jump on his bandwagon.  They don’t know whether this is the new norm for Harris or not.

He was absolutely terrible for Cardiff down the Gate alongside Collins a few years ago, looked like he could barely run. We did have peak Semenyo at the other end though so that might have clouded my judgement

He will no doubt score against us 

[Peter1450]

22 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Just had a nose at their forum.

 

They hate Manning and as the last poster says "hes in for some serious shit" on Saturday.

 

Imagine if we get dicked against them?

 

https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/a-bristol-city-fan-us-thoughts-on-liam-manning.10103/page-6

Had to laugh at the guy who moaned about the 3-0 win . 700 passes in the game , bored the opposition to death. 
     It sounds like many a forum post on Otib but without the win. 
     Didn’t realise he was disliked so much and will surely be in for some serious shite from the 3.5K away fans!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, but even the most ardent Oxford fan would view Harris (before this season) as a striker who works hard, but wasn’t necessarily expected to be a big goalscorer at this level. At Xmas last season, I suspect some Oxford fans thought he was bang average Lg1 too.  He had a really good run after Xmas, and looks to have carried that on this term.

Easy to jump on his bandwagon.  They don’t know whether this is the new norm for Harris or not.

 

34 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

 

He was absolutely terrible for Cardiff down the Gate alongside Collins a few years ago, looked like he could barely run. We did have peak Semenyo at the other end though so that might have clouded my judgement

He will no doubt score against us 

Could be  a purple patch, could be development at different times..Players can do, technical, tactical all manner of things. Maja has 5 Goals and 1 Assist already albeit those 5 Goals from 14 Shots..that's elite level conversion rate in any League.

Once you take away penalties the Maja one isn't far off Haaland shot to goal ratio this season albeit still early days.

I talk about our strikers but they are less experienced and younger..

Edited Tuesday at 12:03 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobBobbin]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

5th choice or 7th Choice at Oxford at time of departure doesn't smack upgrade to me but otoh they are doing well at this level and he did strongly under Manning.

Naismith I think that role is pretty great for him or could be..will try and find some data of him in those positions but the advantage of putting him into that role is that he can drop in between the Centre Backs too in phases.

What levels yes McGuane been at predominantly? Yes La Masia sure but..is he suddenly the answer? Dribble, pass, progress but at Championship standard?

"Only one way to find out, Mark!"

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Harris too, 4 Goals 10 Shots. Dunno whether any were penalties but you're talking the best of the best sorts of rates albeit from a low sample size.

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

"Only one way to find out, Mark!"

 

I'll be honest, don't know enough about him and his overall profile to comment too far..would it necessitate further tactical tinkering though?

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Harris too, 4 Goals 10 Shots. Dunno whether any were penalties but you're talking the best of the best sorts of rates albeit from a low sample size.

Have a watch of his goal to get him off the mark this season (at Cov).

It really was one of those “just needs one to go in off his arse”.

[BobBobBobbin]

44 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll be honest, don't know enough about him and his overall profile to comment too far..would it necessitate further tactical tinkering though?

if there's one thing that's abundantly clear from the last 4 games, it's that a tactical tweak is not just desirable, but paramount!

[fanjita]

On 14/09/2024 at 18:48, BCFCGav said:

May be the most important line-up in his year in charge so far.

Bird 10, Twine LW has to stop. Yes they interchange, yes positions are flexible these days, but it doesn’t work. Keep it simple stupid. Players in their positions.

4231:

O’Leary: Tanner, Vyner, McNally, Pring: Bird, Knight: Yu, Twine, Mehmeti: Sincs.

Mehmeti is a tough pick, he’s not looked great of late. But in Bell’s absence it’s him or a youngster. A rogue shout, like Morrison (or even Naismith who has played there historically) is tempting.

Whatever he does, it has to work.

Mehmeti,,,NOOOOOOOOO

[fanjita]

On 14/09/2024 at 20:09, sglosbcfc said:

3-5-2 is the answer, we must become harder to beat. Our only win all season saw us concede 3 goals! A defeat v Oxford and we will be facing a relegation scrap.

Has any team faced a relegation scrap in SEPTEMBER?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, BobBobBobbin said:

if there's one thing that's abundantly clear from the last 4 games, it's that a tactical tweak is not just desirable, but paramount!

McGuane for one of Knight and Bird, plus Knight and Bird? Williams.

Can we finally move Twine central, what of Yu?

Seems a bit of a mess really or unclear at least.

[The Coach]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

McGuane for one of Knight and Bird, plus Knight and Bird? Williams.

Can we finally move Twine central, what of Yu?

Seems a bit of a mess really or unclear at least.

I think we will go out with the same formation on Saturday. Expecting Twine to start in number 10, with Mehmeti on left. Rather Yu as I believe Mehmeti is poor. But looking through this with Mannings eyes.

Possibly Bird and Knight in behind Twine. But then do you drop Williams?

It’s highly alarming that here we are approaching game 6. Panic stations are coming in a bit as we scramble to put together a starting XI to give us a good performance with a good result. Extremely concerning.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, The Coach said:

I think we will go out with the same formation on Saturday. Expecting Twine to start in number 10, with Mehmeti on left. Rather Yu as I believe Mehmeti is poor. But looking through this with Mannings eyes.

Possibly Bird and Knight in behind Twine. But then do you drop Williams?

It’s highly alarming that here we are approaching game 6. Panic stations are coming in a bit as we scramble to put together a starting XI to give us a good performance with a good result. Extremely concerning.

Agreed.

I'd like Bird and Knight as the pair, weren't they both there vs Willem II..they are going, energetic, and because they were at Derby together perhaps a certain synergy and cohesion.

Could even have Twine behind a strike pair in a 4-3-1-2...That would be a big change though, like you I find it alarming that we are scrambling to find a viable Plan B after 5 League games.

   Bird Knight

Sykes Twine Yu

   Armstrong

[The Coach]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed.

I'd like Bird and Knight as the pair, weren't they both there vs Willem II..they are going, energetic, and because they were at Derby together perhaps a certain synergy and cohesion.

Could even have Twine behind a strike pair in a 4-3-1-2...That would be a big change though, like you I find it alarming that we are scrambling to find a viable Plan B after 5 League games.

   Bird Knight

Sykes Twine Yu

   Armstrong

That forward line is what I’m expecting on Saturday bar Mehmeti for Yu unfortunately. I think defence will be same as Saturday. Only change could be Roberts for Pring. 
 

 

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

McGuane for one of Knight and Bird, plus Knight and Bird? Williams.

Can we finally move Twine central, what of Yu?

Seems a bit of a mess really or unclear at least.

This was the plan:

Back 4 - just put in McNally for Dickie

DMs - Plan was Knight and Bird

No10 - Plan was Twine once signed

Wide - Plan was probably perm Hirakawa / Sykes and Bell (now inj) / Mehmeti

+++++

I’m not really sure what there is to eff around with, personnel wise.  Or is he now wondering that in the cold light of day, ie Championship football, whether his plan was very good.

Tune in Saturday!!!

+++++

If he plays Twine anywhere other than as a 10, I’d sack him at 14:01.  That could be a 10 in a 4231 or a 10 in a 3421 or 3412…but he must play as a 10.  FFS you bleated on for 9 months about “Twiney”!

Argh!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, The Coach said:

That forward line is what I’m expecting on Saturday bar Mehmeti for Yu unfortunately. I think defence will be same as Saturday. Only change could be Roberts for Pring. 
 

 

Roberts for Pring could be interesting..he can play a central and he's a bit more technical, Pring is more about dynamism isn't he or has been. More central, bit narrower may help...

It would mean conceding the left somewhat at times but an extra CB in there at others could work Idk.

Edited Tuesday at 14:46 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Coach]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This was the plan:

Back 4 - just put in McNally for Dickie

DMs - Plan was Knight and Bird

No10 - Plan was Twine once signed

Wide - Plan was probably perm Hirakawa / Sykes and Bell (now inj) / Mehmeti

+++++

I’m not really sure what there is to eff around with, personnel wise.  Or is he now wondering that in the cold light of day, ie Championship football, whether his plan was very good.

Tune in Saturday!!!

+++++

If he plays Twine anywhere other than as a 10, I’d sack him at 14:01.  That could be a 10 in a 4231 or a 10 in a 3421 or 3412…but he must play as a 10.  FFS you bleated on for 9 months about “Twiney”!

Argh!!

Fancy the job at 14:02 then Dave?

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Fancy the job at 14:02 then Dave?

No, I’m blocked don’t forget!

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

This was the plan:

Back 4 - just put in McNally for Dickie

DMs - Plan was Knight and Bird

No10 - Plan was Twine once signed

Wide - Plan was probably perm Hirakawa / Sykes and Bell (now inj) / Mehmeti

+++++

I’m not really sure what there is to eff around with, personnel wise.  Or is he now wondering that in the cold light of day, ie Championship football, whether his plan was very good.

Tune in Saturday!!!

+++++

If he plays Twine anywhere other than as a 10, I’d sack him at 14:01.  That could be a 10 in a 4231 or a 10 in a 3421 or 3412…but he must play as a 10.  FFS you bleated on for 9 months about “Twiney”!

Argh!!

I wonder what happened with that thinking.

It surely can't be that Bird did ok in the 10 role and it was easier to drop Mehmeti. 

[Offside]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This was the plan:

Back 4 - just put in McNally for Dickie

DMs - Plan was Knight and Bird

No10 - Plan was Twine once signed

Wide - Plan was probably perm Hirakawa / Sykes and Bell (now inj) / Mehmeti

+++++

I’m not really sure what there is to eff around with, personnel wise.  Or is he now wondering that in the cold light of day, ie Championship football, whether his plan was very good.

Tune in Saturday!!!

+++++

If he plays Twine anywhere other than as a 10, I’d sack him at 14:01.  That could be a 10 in a 4231 or a 10 in a 3421 or 3412…but he must play as a 10.  FFS you bleated on for 9 months about “Twiney”!

Argh!!

Couldn’t agree more. God knows why he has not been playing Twine as the 10 after so long chasing his signing  

For me, it has to be a back 4, (Tanner, Vyner, McNally, Pring/Roberts) Bird and Knight/Williams as DMs, Twine as the 10 and then the front three. 

Manning has got to be prepared to drop players from the starting 11 to fit into a system rather than shoe-horning players in. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I wonder what happened with that thinking.

It surely can't be that Bird did ok in the 10 role and it was easier to drop Mehmeti. 

I think it could!

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I wonder what happened with that thinking.

It surely can't be that Bird did ok in the 10 role and it was easier to drop Mehmeti. 

Is the Occam’s razor for me

[IAmNick]

Personally I don't think swapping a couple of players or changing to 5 at the back will make too much difference without also changing some of our instructions as well.

Similarly the last couple of teams (and yes I'm including the much maligned Williams, Knight, and Sykes there!) would also be absolutely fine on Saturday - with different instructions. So we can pick formations, beg for two at the top, or even drop Max after one mistake... or something else equally stupid. I'm not sure it's going to have a long lasting effect outside of the odd win myself.

I'd be happy with the either of the last two starting teams, with a better game plan.

[1960maaan]

21 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Is the Occam’s razor for me

I was going to say I only use Gillett , but I won't derail the thread 

[1960maaan]

13 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Personally I don't think swapping a couple of players or changing to 5 at the back will make too much difference without also changing some of our instructions as well.

Similarly the last couple of teams (and yes I'm including the much maligned Williams, Knight, and Sykes there!) would also be absolutely fine on Saturday - with different instructions. So we can pick formations, beg for two at the top, or even drop Max after one mistake... or something else equally stupid. I'm not sure it's going to have a long lasting effect outside of the odd win myself.

I'd be happy with the either of the last two starting teams, with a better game plan.

I'm with you there , I complained a lot when Knight was played as the 10 but that was positional . I'm convinced that Sykes has been shackled , he no longer gets in many scoring positions, rarely takes on a FB and has little impact. The complete opposite of how he started his time here. I was a big fan of his but he's definitely gone backwards in terms of impact on games.

[mozo]

34 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Personally I don't think swapping a couple of players or changing to 5 at the back will make too much difference without also changing some of our instructions as well.

Similarly the last couple of teams (and yes I'm including the much maligned Williams, Knight, and Sykes there!) would also be absolutely fine on Saturday - with different instructions. So we can pick formations, beg for two at the top, or even drop Max after one mistake... or something else equally stupid. I'm not sure it's going to have a long lasting effect outside of the odd win myself.

I'd be happy with the either of the last two starting teams, with a better game plan.

Which instructions would you change?

[IAmNick]

Just now, mozo said:

Which instructions would you change?

Well, I'm tempted to use the "I'm not the manager" card as I don't have the luxury of spending hours pouring over video footage, nor the necessary knowledge! So I don't know, but it looks to me like something isn't working beyond swapping a couple of players.

I'd be telling Twine to stop coming so central, and if he can't I just wouldn't play him. I'd be telling players further forward to take more risks, rather than always playing the "odds on" ball. I'd like to see Knight playing higher up the pitch more often, as our press is way too easy to get around at the moment by dropping someone back from midfield which was happening constantly the last game I saw in person. I'd be looking to increase the tempo at which we move the ball up the pitch, and bring back the occasional  balls over the top which worked well with Sykes. I'd be telling Mehmeti I have one sugar and a bit of oat milk (but give it a good shake first) thanks

[Davefevs]

 

38 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I'm with you there , I complained a lot when Knight was played as the 10 but that was positional . I'm convinced that Sykes has been shackled , he no longer gets in many scoring positions, rarely takes on a FB and has little impact. The complete opposite of how he started his time here. I was a big fan of his but he's definitely gone backwards in terms of impact on games.

For a bit of a joke I asked the BCFC Football Manager guy on Twitter to create City’s shape in the game.  After a bit of to’ing and fro’ing we settled on this (added arrows which you can’t do on FM like the olden days):

if anything it understates Pring’s advanced positions, and Tanner’s narrowness (is that a word).

If you’re gonna play 4231, play it more like it’s meant to be played.  By all means, Twine (if he’s the LW) come inside when the ball is on the right wing.  But when they have the ball he has to stop the RB playing into the RW.  Defensively he plays infield too.

The other thing is the lopsided nature of it means that when we do play out from deep from Tanner, teams just squeeze and push Sykes back.  He receives the ball with no options.  Either Tanner has to be prepared to give and go, or the CM (or Bird dropping) has to be available, with Armstrong peeling into the space.

We did this again in the opening couple of games, but teams have sussed it.

We seem unable to go down the left too.

I think LM has “over-thunk” it, and in doing so has made it easier for teams to make us play in half a pitch width and congest it, making it easier to press.

Just play it conventionally….head-coach to go “back to basics”.  Maybe the players will be able to play a more natural game.  They aren’t crap.

 

[mozo]

Maybe Twine and Bird just really enjoy each other's company 

[1960maaan]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

For a bit of a joke I asked the BCFC Football Manager guy on Twitter to create City’s shape in the game.  After a bit of to’ing and fro’ing we settled on this (added arrows which you can’t do on FM like the olden days):

if anything it understates Pring’s advanced positions, and Tanner’s narrowness (is that a word).

If you’re gonna play 4231, play it more like it’s meant to be played.  By all means, Twine (if he’s the LW) come inside when the ball is on the right wing.  But when they have the ball he has to stop the RB playing into the RW.  Defensively he plays infield too.

The other thing is the lopsided nature of it means that when we do play out from deep from Tanner, teams just squeeze and push Sykes back.  He receives the ball with no options.  Either Tanner has to be prepared to give and go, or the CM (or Bird dropping) has to be available, with Armstrong peeling into the space.

We did this again in the opening couple of games, but teams have sussed it.

We seem unable to go down the left too.

I think LM has “over-thunk” it, and in doing so has made it easier for teams to make us play in half a pitch width and congest it, making it easier to press.

Just play it conventionally….head-coach to go “back to basics”.  Maybe the players will be able to play a more natural game.  They aren’t crap.

 

That graphic looks a lot like what I have been watching , at least the last two games . Pring isolated , Twine & Bird fighting over space and our right side barely making it over the half way line. 
I do wonder if it's not instruction , but maybe the amount of instruction they have been given . It does feel like it got worse after he had 2 weeks to drum things into them. 

 

[Graham76]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I'm with you there , I complained a lot when Knight was played as the 10 but that was positional . I'm convinced that Sykes has been shackled , he no longer gets in many scoring positions, rarely takes on a FB and has little impact. The complete opposite of how he started his time here. I was a big fan of his but he's definitely gone backwards in terms of impact on games.

A few players have gone backwards imo. Pring & Sykes seems like completely different players, but they’re not the only ones. The other players who looked to have improved under manning are now regressing. 

[stephenkibby.]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I was going to say I only use Gillett , but I won't derail the thread 

Little midfielder for us?

[Shauntaylor85]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

That graphic looks a lot like what I have been watching , at least the last two games . Pring isolated , Twine & Bird fighting over space and our right side barely making it over the half way line. 
I do wonder if it's not instruction , but maybe the amount of instruction they have been given . It does feel like it got worse after he had 2 weeks to drum things into them. 

 

Football is a simple game yet Manning is badly overcomplicating it. If I had signed off a decent fee and wage for Twine after having my ear chewed off all summer over signing him and seeing him utilise the way he has been I would be having serious words with our Head Coach and Tinnion.