Players Going on Strike

[2015]

41 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I understand with the issues around physical and emotional stress. But L1 and L2 players have been expected to rock up 50+ times a season for years, due to small squads and multiple competitions, ALL of which are absolutely vital for club survival (££££££).

Also: nurses, care workers, and many others in low paid jobs work like slaves for a mere pittance, so...sit down, shut up, count your money, Rodri.

The difference is that the L1 and L2 players are not flying around the globe constantly playing different matches, and will be set to get worse once FIFA introduce an expanded club world cup. The quality at the top of the game is also of a much higher intensity.

[Cowshed]

32 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's not though is it. Just to take one example: the Premier League has been a 380 game product, not all of which are available for broadcast (domestically at least), for the best part of three decades now.

 

Yes it is though. 

The Premier league has more teams than competitors and is sold globally. We also have cup competitions and the teams in the champions league. This leads to more games, and more product being sold. Players coming to the EPL's elite club receive elite money that reflects that our top level teams play more and get paid more than any other league in the World. Any player coming to the EPL will know that the demand to play here is higher, but so is the reward in wages, they play more and will the earn more than anywhere else. 

 

[Davefevs]

Timely!

 

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

33 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The difference is that the L1 and L2 players are not flying around the globe constantly playing different matches, and will be set to get worse once FIFA introduce an expanded club world cup. The quality at the top of the game is also of a much higher intensity.

Quite a few are 

Stockport, Cambridge, Crawley, Northampton and even Bristol Rovers all have internationally capped players.

Birmingham, Charlton, Reading, Huddersfield all have multiple.

46 league games, plus 3 minimum from the piss pot cup, plus League Cup and FA Cup. Minimum of 51 domestic games a season for those clubs.

Most Premier League sides won't reach 45 games a season. Only the ones in European competitions will, and they have huge squads to deal with this. The lower league sides won't have anywhere near the squad depth to deal with the number of games a season.

Is the game at a less intense pace? Sure, it's also a lot more physical.

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

A professional footballer does not have the right to withdraw their labour from the game they have been employed to play without just cause. Players contracts and the salaries that they receive reflect playing time. Individuals striking because they feel they play too much when their contracts stipulate expectation, playing time etc is not a just cause.

Your question should be have footballers in the last twenty years been paid more as the number of games increased? The answer is yes, the increase is massive, and this is renumeration for the players playing more. The rewards at the top level are lavish, and this reflects the expectation and demands. If players don't want the rewards they can negotiate contracts with clubs that are linked to how much they are willing to play.

What about where new competitions are being added? There was no expectation for that competition when they signed their contract. The example I would use is the club World Cup coming in, it’s mid June to mid July or otherwise known as the time players woud expect to be off, I believe there may also be an international window just before it as well. Given domestic leagues will have a hard start date about a month after the final players of the teams who make it can only really expect perhaps a week off before they have to be preparing for the new season. This for me is where any argument about money loses traction, breaks are needed at the end of a season where a player could play 70+ games, I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest that, even with rotation players would have played a lot. But to then expect them to go into another 10 months off a season with just a weeks break isn't good. I know Rodri’s argument was about players but if not players then how about staff? The staff who perhaps earn 30-40k a year (analysts, physios, sport science etc) where it’s constant near 24/7 work with potential for high stress environments because of demands on them, they’re not massively well paid like players, do they not deserve time for a break either? They won’t be getting it with the more games they’re required to work. 

For me the contestant expectation to be just able to add more competitive football is just ridiculous, players are being conditioned to near breaking point because that’s the needs of the game now given how physically demanding it is now. Where internationals used to have friendlies (as much as fans complained they were boring) they were a chance for rotation and trying new players, now you have the nations league which provides a pathway to major competitions so can’t be discounted, the expansion of the champions league for a tournament that wasn’t broken to begin with, the club world championship, ultimately there needs to be some let off. 

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

I understand with the issues around physical and emotional stress. But L1 and L2 players have been expected to rock up 50+ times a season for years, due to small squads and multiple competitions, ALL of which are absolutely vital for club survival (££££££).

Also: nurses, care workers, and many others in low paid jobs work like slaves for a mere pittance, so...sit down, shut up, count your money, Rodri.

There’s massive physical demands between a PL game and a L1/L2 game, every distance metric you can think of goes up, everything is more distance at higher intensity for the same 90 odd minutes. It’s the reason why someone like Seb Palmer-Houlden could still have struggled to come straight into City’s team if you took out ability and just tried to play him for 35-40 games as a starter and why a bridging loan in SPL is better for him to adjust. 

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

What about where new competitions are being added? There was no expectation for that competition when they signed their contract. The example I would use is the club World Cup coming in, it’s mid June to mid July or otherwise known as the time players would expect to be off, I believe there may also be an international window just before it as well. Given domestic leagues will have a hard start date about a month after the final players of the teams who make it can only really expect perhaps a week off before they have to be preparing for the new season. This for me is where any argument about money loses traction, breaks are needed at the end of a season where a player could play 70+ games, I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest that, even with rotation players would have played a lot. But to then expect them to go into another 10 months off a season with just a weeks break isn't good. I know Rodri’s argument was about players but if not players then how about staff? The staff who perhaps earn 30-40k a year (analysts, physios, sport science etc) where it’s constant near 24/7 work with potential for high stress environments because of demands on them, they’re not massively well paid like players, do they not deserve time for a break either? They won’t be getting it with the more games they’re required to work. 

For me the contestant expectation to be just able to add more competitive football is just ridiculous, players are being conditioned to near breaking point because that’s the needs of the game now given how physically demanding it is now. Where internationals used to have friendlies (as much as fans complained they were boring) they were a chance for rotation and trying new players, now you have the nations league which provides a pathway to major competitions so can’t be discounted, the expansion of the champions league for a tournament that wasn’t broken to begin with, the club world championship, ultimately there needs to be some let off. 

That expanded world club thing is every four years, and it will be lucrative for those involved. But what about it? Players will receive the benefits in pay for their football. Join a Man City you will play more football, and you will receive more money. That is the culture. Big games, lots of games, bigger cookies for a small elite. 

Don't want it? Go elsewhere. There are leagues like the Eredivisie where Rodris weekly salary would pay for numerous teams. 

Players can negotiate their next contract, with a reduction in money paralleling the games they want to play. Won't happen. 

Regarding the staff everything is reflective Man City's infra structure is vast. Man City are not a club where they have one member of staff per role. The have teams of physios, analysts, coaches etc they have entire wings of buildings dedicated to sports science. Our modest facility up Failand is the corner of a ground floor versus the Etihad's world elite facility. Every need is catered for and the facility is virtually 24/7, its part of a global CFG operation, Its one the biggest supportive systems in world sport. 

[Midred]

I'm a bit confused by the 'full strength' side, does this include the bench aswell? Quite often the team to start in the early rounds of the FA or EFL cup won't be all the best players who will only come on if their team is in trouble or for the last 10 minutes appearance time.

Do all these elite players actually play every minute of every match.

Could they afford the loss of income if they only only played 3 times a month?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, 2015 said:

The difference is that the L1 and L2 players are not flying around the globe constantly playing different matches, and will be set to get worse once FIFA introduce an expanded club world cup. The quality at the top of the game is also of a much higher intensity.

Clubs get a £50m or €50m Participation Fee for this..don't see any Clubs turning it down for one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

There’s massive physical demands between a PL game and a L1/L2 game, every distance metric you can think of goes up, everything is more distance at higher intensity for the same 90 odd minutes. It’s the reason why someone like Seb Palmer-Houlden could still have struggled to come straight into City’s team if you took out ability and just tried to play him for 35-40 games as a starter and why a bridging loan in SPL is better for him to adjust. 

What about Championship?

Physically I mean.. 

Tuesday-Saturday, Tuesday-Saturday- lots of it during the coldest, wettest and darkest months.

8 more games.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I hope they do, as FIFA and the individual confederations seem to want to milk ever more from the game at their expense.  

You forgot one of the biggest culprits.

The Clubs. (Plus Agents and others).

Do Clubs mind this new CL or FIFA Cup format? Any breakdown of revenue generated going back to the participating clubs?

Cake and eat it springs to kind.

Edited Wednesday at 16:29 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

I dont feel a great deal of sympathy.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/2025-fifa-club-world-cup-qualified-clubs-set-to-receive-euro-50m-prize-money/view/news/436329

For the benefit of context free posts hy @Barrs Court Red Clubs who participate benefit significantly, these contribute to Player Wages.

Edited Wednesday at 16:32 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Yes it is though. 

The Premier league has more teams than competitors and is sold globally. We also have cup competitions and the teams in the champions league. This leads to more games, and more product being sold. Players coming to the EPL's elite club receive elite money that reflects that our top level teams play more and get paid more than any other league in the World. Any player coming to the EPL will know that the demand to play here is higher, but so is the reward in wages, they play more and will the earn more than anywhere else. 

But players don't have total control over where they play do they. The cream rises because not only do the players earn more when they move, but their old clubs get the massive transfer fees that they depend on. Rodri can't just go and play for a smaller team because that smaller team would, at some point, cash in on him.

They are essentially hostages to the market, and the play where and for whom they are told.

Yes they get paid well, but ultimately they have very little say in where they go and what they get told to do.

It's very different to say, my industry where one can choose to go and work 80 hour weeks in London and be paid £300k a year, or you can work 40 hour weeks in other cities and get a third of that. I'm not going to be sold up the chain in order to feed my company's balance sheet.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

But players don't have total control over where they play do they. The cream rises because not only do the players earn more when they move, but their old clubs get the massive transfer fees that they depend on. Rodri can't just go and play for a smaller team because that smaller team would, at some point, cash in on him.

They are essentially hostages to the market, and the play where and for whom they are told.

Yes they get paid well, but ultimately they have very little say in where they go and what they get told to do.

It's very different to say, my industry where one can choose to go and work 80 hour weeks in London and be paid £300k a year, or you can work 40 hour weeks in other cities and get a third of that. I'm not going to be sold up the chain in order to feed my company's balance sheet.

Then Clubs would be better served to query the FIFA and UEFA plans, if they aren't already then they should be..perhaps refuse the lucre of the new CL and FIFA WC format.

[Lrrr]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What about Championship?

Physically I mean.. 

Tuesday-Saturday, Tuesday-Saturday- lots of it during the coldest, wettest and darkest months.

8 more games.

There's still a mile between PL & Championship in terms of physical data. PL you have to be an athlete capable of playing in the league for 99% of outfield players, very few have the technical level that can compensate for physicals. Whereas in the Championship a team can carry a player whose physical data isn't very strong if they're good enough on ball. 

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Then Clubs would be better served to query the FIFA and UEFA plans, if they aren't already then they should be..perhaps refuse the lucre of the new CL and FIFA WC format.

Yes clubs should seek to protect their assets/employees. But that doesn't mean that those assets/employees/people need to sit quietly and take it. They are the talent, they are the product, without them the game is literally nothing.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

That expanded world club thing is every four years, and it will be lucrative for those involved. But what about it? Players will receive the benefits in pay for their football. Join a Man City you will play more football, and you will receive more money. That is the culture. Big games, lots of games, bigger cookies for a small elite. 

Don't want it? Go elsewhere. There are leagues like the Eredivisie where Rodris weekly salary would pay for numerous teams. 

Players can negotiate their next contract, with a reduction in money paralleling the games they want to play. Won't happen. 

Regarding the staff everything is reflective Man City's infra structure is vast. Man City are not a club where they have one member of staff per role. The have teams of physios, analysts, coaches etc they have entire wings of buildings dedicated to sports science. Our modest facility up Failand is the corner of a ground floor versus the Etihad's world elite facility. Every need is catered for and the facility is virtually 24/7, its part of a global CFG operation, Its one the biggest supportive systems in world sport. 

Every 4 years where there's already euros one summer and the WC another, what's the betting UEFA or FIFA come up with an idea for the last summer without major football? 

No club would be willing to negotiate to allow a player to dictate when they can be used so thats a non starter. 

Bigger departments sure, but it allows them to go into more detail and get more done not reduce the workloads of the individuals involved, it will still be the same hours of analysts at other clubs where departments are smaller with a near constant expectation to be available to do work 24/7 when required and no massive player like salary to reflect this expectation. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes clubs should seek to protect their assets/employees. But that doesn't mean that those assets/employees/people need to sit quietly and take it. They are the talent, they are the product, without them the game is literally nothing.

Cake and eat it and little will convince me otherwise at this juncture.

I see what you are saying but without fans and revenue that football generates, there is nothing to pay the talent with.

Just now, Lrrr said:

Every 4 years where there's already euros one summer and the WC another, what's the betting UEFA or FIFA come up with an idea for the last summer without major football? 

No club would be willing to negotiate to allow a player to dictate when they can be used so thats a non starter. 

Bigger departments sure, but it allows them to go into more detail and get more done not reduce the workloads of the individuals involved, it will still be the same hours of analysts at other clubs where departments are smaller with a near constant expectation to be available to do work 24/7 when required and no massive player like salary to reflect this expectation. 

Clubs and Pre Season tours, lots of blame to go around.

All about chasing the revenue be it Clubs or Governing Bodies.

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Clubs and Pre Season tours, lots of blame to go around.

All about chasing the revenue be it Clubs or Governing Bodies

Oh I absolutely don't agree with the pre-season tours that are for commercial reasons only, City have been to the USA before so no issue basing yourself somewhere if its for a good team focused reason (and I hated the post season fixtures the other side of the globe). 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On a general note, % of Salary to Revenue for Football vs Industries aplenty would be interesting.

Edited Wednesday at 16:52 by Mr Popodopolous

[Midred]

I'd like to hear when Jim Ratcliffe has a chat with the players about a return on his investment! 

[ZiderEyed]

I am so sympathetic for these millionaires, they have to work so often, it really is criminal. They have to get on a plane to be paid exorbitantly :(.

If only these huge clubs had youth academies full of pinched players from lower league clubs, and a plethora of well paid professionals to fill the bench? Surely they wouldn't condemn more games if they could have 40 pro players on full time contracts?

Take a pay cut and **** off to Iceland or the Netherlands and play less matches. 

Had enough of football, I don't think I'll bother going forward. I'll still keep tabs on City but all this noise is so boring to me now. 

[Cowshed]

35 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

But players don't have total control over where they play do they. The cream rises because not only do the players earn more when they move, but their old clubs get the massive transfer fees that they depend on. Rodri can't just go and play for a smaller team because that smaller team would, at some point, cash in on him.

They are essentially hostages to the market, and the play where and for whom they are told.

Yes they get paid well, but ultimately they have very little say in where they go and what they get told to do.

It's very different to say, my industry where one can choose to go and work 80 hour weeks in London and be paid £300k a year, or you can work 40 hour weeks in other cities and get a third of that. I'm not going to be sold up the chain in order to feed my company's balance sheet.

Uneven analogy. Rodri's is not a hostage and he has chosen to play for a team that provides him with pay that is exceptional in sport. To service that pay the club he chose to play for has to play lots of games, and be involved in lots of competitions. Without all those games, those competitions and the income they create he cannot receive the sums Rodri demands for his services as a elite football player that plays for elite football clubs.  

Yes, football is very different to any other industry. In another industry if you want to work less you get paid? Less.

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, Midred said:

I'd like to hear when Jim Ratcliffe has a chat with the players about a return on his investment! 

Clearly we only go on about the top clubs but I'm questioning the RoI at most clubs tbh.

Fulham and Shahid Khan, £900m-£1bn all-in..middle third PL club and then relegated, where are they 10-11 years on?

Bloom and Benham coud get a return plus are both fans but I question the ROI at most clubs, or even breaking even on their investment.

[ExiledAjax]

55 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Uneven analogy. Rodri's is not a hostage and he has chosen to play for a team that provides him with pay that is exceptional in sport. To service that pay the club he chose to play for has to play lots of games, and be involved in lots of competitions. Without all those games, those competitions and the income they create he cannot receive the sums Rodri demands for his services as a elite football player that plays for elite football clubs.  

Yes, football is very different to any other industry. In another industry if you want to work less you get paid? Less.

He's not a hostage to Man City, he and all the other footballers are a hostage to the market. He could, say, come and play for Bristol City right? Get his games down to just the 46 plus a few cup games and pre-season friendlies. He'd lose the internationals.

But then, at some point, we get a phone call from some club offering us twice our annual turnover for his contract. We sell him. Sorry Rodrigo no one really cares what you think, we've got books to balance.

That's the hostage bit. Hostage to the market.

Anyway, I'm not going to change anyone's mind clearly. People can keep slating a group of young men who have actually achieved some stunning social mobility if they like.

The PFA and their lawyers will see it out.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's not a hostage to Man City, he and all the other footballers are a hostage to the market. He could, say, come and play for Bristol City right? Get his games down to just the 46 plus a few cup games and pre-season friendlies. He'd lose the internationals.

But then, at some point, we get a phone call from some club offering us twice our annual turnover for his contract. We sell him. Sorry Rodrigo no one really cares what you think, we've got books to balance.

That's the hostage bit. Hostage to the market.

Anyway, I'm not going to change anyone's mind clearly. People can keep slating a group of young men who have actually achieved some stunning social mobility if they like.

The PFA and their lawyers will see it out.

They want their cake and eat it then.

About time club owners put their foot down a bit medium term.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They want their cake and eat it then.

If you mean "want to be paid commensurately for their labour whilst also not being exploited" then yes.

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

About time club owners put their foot down a bit medium term.

Yes.

[Barrs Court Red]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I dont feel a great deal of sympathy.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/2025-fifa-club-world-cup-qualified-clubs-set-to-receive-euro-50m-prize-money/view/news/436329

For the benefit of context free posts hy @Barrs Court Red Clubs who participate benefit significantly, these contribute to Player Wages.

And what, pray tell, is context free about my post?  

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

If you mean "want to be paid commensurately for their labour whilst also not being exploited" then yes.

Yes.

It isn't exploitation though, not really.

I can't fully see the exploitation argument..Club owners rebelling against the new CL format or the FIFA would be a statement but how would it impact upon their revenue, a chunk of which surely goes to the players?

Just now, Barrs Court Red said:

And what, pray tell, is context free about my post?  

Maybe not context free, but easy to slate UEFA and FIFA when clubs who participate are handsomely rewarded for it.

[Ivorguy]

Thought our lot already were

[Midred]

3 hours ago, Midred said:

I'm a bit confused by the 'full strength' side, does this include the bench aswell? Quite often the team to start in the early rounds of the FA or EFL cup won't be all the best players who will only come on if their team is in trouble or for the last 10 minutes appearance time.

Do all these elite players actually play every minute of every match.

Could they afford the loss of income if they only only played 3 times a month?

See Spurs have made 8 or 9 changes from Sunday. Is that resting players or a contempt for Coventry?

[Monkeh]

23 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

They are asking clubs to play. They aren’t telling them who to pick.  More rotation will mean fewer injuries and less fatigue 

Their are rules in place stopping full rotation

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Monkeh said:

Their are rules in place stopping full rotation

Yeah I know. Didn’t say full rotation.