So pleased for Liam

[Silvio Dante]

16 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Why not mention any of our misses for a bit of balance?

If Sinclair didn't go right for the corner and just flicked his header from Roberts cross we would have been in front, if Mehmeti hadn't have hit multiple shots at their keeper we would have been in front, if Mehmeti didn't hit shots over the bar and scored them we would've been in front. If Oxford didn't get a nice rub of the green for their goal then they don't score do they? If my Auntie had balls.....

The worrying things for me is the defence looks a bit shaky, the stubbornness with Twine, and the lack of changing tactics when it is clearly not working.

As I said on another thread, it’s the difference between a chance and a sitter. The chances you describe were just that - they sometimes go in and sometimes don’t but they weren’t gilt edged. My biggest issue was the Armstrong header from Roberts cross but it would still have been a bloody good header to score.

Harris’s chance on the other hand was a gimme. It’s an Ebou Adams, it’s a Ronnie Rosenthal. Once in a blue moon that doesn’t go in, and that once was thankfully for us today.

Agree with your other points - but we undoubtedly were lucky not to be 2-0 down today and 99 times of 100 (or 86 times per xG) would be - and that’s not the case with our chances.

[RED4LIFE]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We are a better team than Oxford (but so we bloody should be!!), today showed that yet we could still have found a way to get zero points out of that game............can we tighten up, be better than 15 plus teams in our division over a season and get the points to prove it is the real question.

Oh, completely agree. We could've easily lost (another) game most neutrals watching would've been astounded by. 

As long term City fans, we know that we are masters at creating our own downfall by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Without sounding sarcastic, I think I'm more surprised than joyous when we don't manage to **** up a dominant performance.

[Lee Trundles LeftTit]

Big result for us after the last few weeks wasn't it. I thought we dominated the match and were unlucky to be 1 down at the break so wasn't one of the HT boo boys. 

Bringing on wells was completely baffling to me but I was made to eat my words shortly after when he slotted home the pen!! 

The highlight of course was yu. What a fantastic touch he has, and looks really intelligent on the ball. You can see him pick out players whereas some often don't look up and smash it across the box in hope. A must start either at the expense of Williams or mehmeti I feel (unsure if he is as comfortable on the left).

I'd be really tempted to stick Armstrong down one wing, yu the other to play in the fally who seems our best finisher by a long shot. Wouldn't leave much on the bench though.

What has happend to pring recently? Just a Scape goat in recent tactical failings? 

 

[Fontaineofallknowledge]

Manning Dished out a load of humble pie to a lot of folk on here today-thought we played with bravery and he got the tactics spot on. Onwards and upwards 

[stephenkibby.]

2 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

In fairness, Oxford's sitter (0.86xG) was a much bigger chance than Armstrong's header (0.12xG).

Wow, if Armstrong's header was nearly a 1 in 10 chance i'm amazed.

I reckon Alan Shearer would have popped that one away at least 8 times out of 10.

Or dose the stat consider who's on the end of the cross?

[Dullmoan Tone]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He knew he changed Twine’s position second half, why give a w-anky answer?

It struck me as young coach arrogance - it doesn’t bode well if he won’t own his mistakes!

I think it was because the question was framed that most fans wanted it - so he went on the defensive, completely unnecessary imo, he could have simply said he wanted to change a few things tactically - I hope I’m not reading too much into a defensive response after a win!

[redsquirrel]

he best be sticking to his changed formation for next sunday, hes going to learn about tightening up the defence quickly if swansea come out like they did against coventry today. coventry only scored because swansea got an og,thats the coventry we couldnt beat twice with home advantage

[W-S-M Seagull]

56 minutes ago, tin said:

I couldn’t give a toss about Liam Manning, but I’m bloody relieved we scraped past newly-promoted Oxford - who’ve got a woeful away record - at home. Is that what’s it’s come to? 

Yep. I didn't feel the jubilation that many others were experiencing. Just a feeling of relief. 

It was a welcome win but we made real hard work of beating a team that we demolished a year ago. 

I suppose I feel as if whilst I'm happy with the win today there was a lot in that performance that causes concern when we come up against slighter better opposition like we will next Sunday. 

Today showed we still have those defensive frailties that were present in the past two games.

[Bristol City mad man]

7 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

It struck me as young coach arrogance - it doesn’t bode well if he won’t own his mistakes!

I think it was because the question was framed that most fans wanted it - so he went on the defensive, completely unnecessary imo, he could have simply said he wanted to change a few things tactically - I hope I’m not reading too much into a defensive response after a win!

If you watch the first half back Twine is always coming inside ‘wanting to play 10’ but that clearly ruins our balance, I do however think Earthy can do the same role with better balance, as he will track back far better and has good pace but need to get him fit first!  I don’t think you can play 4-2-3-1 successfully with two out and out wingers unless they are top quality wingers and we only have one so think we just need to accept the inside left position is going to be a thing but Twine is clearly not the man for that as he’s an out and out 10 but I hope and think Earthy could be the answer  

[Dullmoan Tone]

2 minutes ago, Bristol City mad man said:

but I hope and think Earthy could be the answer

I would be surprised if he started Earthy and Twine together - but I’d love to see it!

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

It struck me as young coach arrogance - it doesn’t bode well if he won’t own his mistakes!

I think it was because the question was framed that most fans wanted it - so he went on the defensive, completely unnecessary imo, he could have simply said he wanted to change a few things tactically - I hope I’m not reading too much into a defensive response after a win!

Hehe, think I’ve posted the same as you on the other thread!  I didn’t copy you, honestly!

[Bristol City mad man]

8 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

I would be surprised if he started Earthy and Twine together - but I’d love to see it!

If you look back how Manning played at Oxford and MK Dons he normally had one winger and one inside wide man hence what we have been seeing but the problem is when he had Twine at MK they played a back 3 so got away with it more and Twine was less exposed defensively but I do see an Earhy/Twine combo in 2-3 games time if Earthy gets fit as that will fit his style with Yu going to be a regular now with Twine at 10   

[tin]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yep. I didn't feel the jubilation that many others were experiencing. Just a feeling of relief. 

It was a welcome win but we made real hard work of beating a team that we demolished a year ago. 

I suppose I feel as if whilst I'm happy with the win today there was a lot in that performance that causes concern when we come up against slighter better opposition like we will next Sunday. 

Today showed we still have those defensive frailties that were present in the past two games.

I couldn’t agree more, relief is the word. 

While we can only beat what’s in front of us on the day, if they scored just before our equaliser, in all probability they go on to win the game and the Gate becomes a toxic place. 

For context, this a side that were in L1 last season during which we thumped them 5-0 in the cup. For me, any side worth its salt at this level takes those chances and we’re staring down the barrel again.

I saw nothing today that makes me think Manning’s turned the corner - his starting XI said as much - but Hirakawa bailed him out. As you say, relief  

[Redtucks]

4 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

It took a penalty to beat a team that have been poor away from home all season.

We should have been 0-2 down after they missed an open goal.

Pleased for him that he won his cup final, but ultimately, he has to learn from that and get even better still if he’s going to keep his job for much longer.

Conveniently ignoring the two misses from Armstrong and the two shots from Mehmeti.

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, tin said:

I saw nothing today that makes me think Manning’s turned the corner

I agree, but today I thought we played pretty well though.  Still issues in transition defence, but I thought we attacked pretty well today.

[TV Tom]

This forum has gone to pot, so depressing 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

This forum has gone to pot, so depressing 

Cheerio then………..

[Dastardly and Muttley]

11 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

Conveniently ignoring the two misses from Armstrong and the two shots from Mehmeti.

 

Were they as clear cut?

Clearly not just from the xG.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, but today I thought we played pretty well though.  Still issues in transition defence, but I thought we attacked pretty well today.

We did, created a couple of decent opportunities first half and pretty much bossed the second 45. Oxford scored after our confused poor defending and missed an open goal but that apart Max had little to do.

I thought Oxford were bang average.

[asfred]

Imho we were poor today. Oxford were allowed to play their football. They found pockets because Manning is rigid in his structure. Sitting behind the goal, i think i have a good view of the game. Around 35 mins, Oxford had the ball, we had 4 midfielders/ defenders set in a square and their attacker was able to drift into the middle of them all, recieve the ball and drive past the two defenders and put in an attack. Not one player stepped in to mark/ close the space. It was ridiculous. I am totally confused to what Manning is trying to do, and seeing that moment, I think the players are to. They didn't know whether they should commit or not...so didn't

Edited September 21 by asfred

[Redtucks]

7 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Were they as clear cut?

Clearly not just from the xG.

Just as subjective as your opinion that we should have been 2-0 down.

I'm just suggesting that we could have been at least 2-0 up!

 

[TheReds]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

As I said on another thread, it’s the difference between a chance and a sitter. The chances you describe were just that - they sometimes go in and sometimes don’t but they weren’t gilt edged. My biggest issue was the Armstrong header from Roberts cross but it would still have been a bloody good header to score.

Harris’s chance on the other hand was a gimme. It’s an Ebou Adams, it’s a Ronnie Rosenthal. Once in a blue moon that doesn’t go in, and that once was thankfully for us today.

Agree with your other points - but we undoubtedly were lucky not to be 2-0 down today and 99 times of 100 (or 86 times per xG) would be - and that’s not the case with our chances.

Obviously Harris chance was ridiculous and even I would have scored that (just), nobody is doubting that. Up until their goal though they hardly posed a threat to us. Mehmetis were chances and just that plus maybe could have made better choices in certain positions. Armstrongs was a huge chance, he could've headed that to any part just past the keepers legs and it would've went in imo (at least a third of the goal to aim at).

Overall I don't think it was anywhere near as bad as certain posters are making out, my main point was more to the poster only wanting to mention everything one sided due to their own agenda.

[jbcfc]

5 hours ago, BobBobBobbin said:

Look, I'm with a lot of you, I am still so unsure about whether Liam is good enough. I have doubts, I have concerns and I have criticisms. 

But today, my overarching feeling following the game is that I'm delighted for him. Delighted he got to pump his fists at full time, delighted he got his subs right and his half time team talk right. Delighted for him personally.

For all his polite protestations, I bet he's absolutely buzzing to win that one. 

Now, the match itself begs many questions, I think it should spell the end of the Twine inverted from the left because second half, with more balance to our shape, we were superb. I think it should spell the end of Bristol City naming a starting eleven without our majestic number 7 in the starting line up and I think it should spell the end of seeing Max Bird anywhere but dictating possession from deeper (What a Rolls Royce of a player he is btw)

I hope beyond all hope that today was a turning point for us and Liam. I want, more than anything since thinking we should sack Cotts for signing Adam El Abd, to be proven wrong. 

We've had many a false dawn, but maybe this is the first brick in the wall. A man can dream!

 

GET IN THERE CITY!!!

positivity? in OTIB? it can’t be.

seriously though, i’m rooting for the guy. we came out swinging in the second half and everyone looked so much more confident. we could’ve let our heads drop again but we got behind the lads and they pulled it out of the bag. it could have gone differently but that’s football. people are quick to forget how well we were playing at times last season.

think the team that started the second half should be the first-choice 11 moving forward, except maybe left back. i like roberts but think he operates better inverted or as an advancing cb. bird is so much better in a deeper role and yu looked very promising. i know williams divides opinion, but we are such a better side without him.

time to kick on. yu reds!!!

Edited September 21 by jbcfc

[Supersonic Robin]

4 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

In fairness, Oxford's sitter (0.86xG) was a much bigger chance than Armstrong's header (0.12xG).

FotMob have updated Oxford's chance to 0.94xG - i.e. we absolutely got away with one!

Armstrong's header still at 0.12xG.

3 hours ago, The turtle said:

0.12? I'm stunned at that...?

In essence a striker is expected to score that 12/100??? 

Absolutely any striker should be expecting to score that at least half the time.

I get I'm bringing feelings into it, but it looked a bad bad miss.

 

Yepp, in theory 12/100 attempts are scored from that chance.

In fairness, I think the language we use to describe chances is often misleading. Football is a notoriously low scoring sport - generally, the chance of a goal being scored in a given situation is almost always lower than it feels in the moment. I gather that crossing & heading is considered especially inefficient in terms of xG.

1 hour ago, stephenkibby. said:

Wow, if Armstrong's header was nearly a 1 in 10 chance i'm amazed.

I reckon Alan Shearer would have popped that one away at least 8 times out of 10.

Or dose the stat consider who's on the end of the cross?

Nope, it doesn't consider the player on the end of the chance.

[Fontaineofallknowledge]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, but today I thought we played pretty well though.  Still issues in transition defence, but I thought we attacked pretty well today.

Thought we looked a lot better on transition in 2nd half. There does seem to be a fundamental issue in central midfield regarding the structure! Looked more balanced with bird/knight in there anyway 

[BCFCGav]

Well said OP. If yesterday had gone badly he’d have been getting panned by all four sides of AG. It’s a brutal industry at times. As you say, let’s hope this is the turning point. Get a few forwards in form and start putting chances away and we’re golden.

I do wish he’d done his fist pumps to the Atyeo. That would have been ******* cinema.

[BobBobBobbin]

27 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Well said OP. If yesterday had gone badly he’d have been getting panned by all four sides of AG. It’s a brutal industry at times. As you say, let’s hope this is the turning point. Get a few forwards in form and start putting chances away and we’re golden.

I do wish he’d done his fist pumps to the Atyeo. That would have been ******* cinema.

Only thing missing was some shithousing, agree!

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

Only thing missing was some shithousing, agree!

Something like LM running to the Atyeo, flicking them the bird and shouting “print that you bastards”.  That kinda thing?

[BobBobBobbin]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Something like LM running to the Atyeo, flicking them the bird and shouting “print that you bastards”.  That kinda thing?

I'm all about it! I pictured a Jose Knee slide mixed with an Adebayor sprint down the pitch. I think that would earn him 12 months grace for tactical flaws from me! 

[bcfcredandwhite]

18 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

Wow, if Armstrong's header was nearly a 1 in 10 chance i'm amazed.

I reckon Alan Shearer would have popped that one away at least 8 times out of 10.

Or dose the stat consider who's on the end of the cross?

That’s because Alan Shearer was the best striker in the Premiership, possibly Europe, easily in the top 10 in the WORLD and England’s uncontested number 9. 

Armstrong plays for a mid-table tier 2 side.