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A first under Manning


Mr Popodopolous

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Winning a game from behind.

Is tbis the start of a new flexibility and resilience? Changing both the shape and the team at HT perhaps helped, getting Yu on, moving Twine central etc.

Our Record prior to this in this regard was pitiful..16 League Games, 4 draws and 12 Losses.

Think it was 1-1 at Huddersfield in December, 1-1 v Watford on Twine Loan debut, 2-2 at Coventry the next game and a last gasp 1-1 v Huddersfield with a Wells penalty that was contentious. That was it.

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29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Winning a game from behind.

Is tbis the start of a new flexibility and resilience? Changing both the shape and the team at HT perhaps helped, getting Yu on, moving Twine central etc.

Our Record prior to this in this regard was pitiful..16 League Games, 4 draws and 12 Losses.

Think it was 1-1 at Huddersfield in December, 1-1 v Watford on Twine Loan debut, 2-2 at Coventry the next game and a last gasp 1-1 v Huddersfield with a Wells penalty that was contentious. That was it.

I don’t think he changed the shape per se, “just” swapped the personnel within the shape when withdrawing Williams.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Twine central, Yu for Williams?

Either way it looked more balanced.

IMG_1705.jpeg.2c382e19ad3b51ce7233099dbd4d6573.jpeg

8. Williams off, 7. Hirakawa on

11. Mehmeti - RW to LW (where Twine was playing)

12. Knight - 10 to CM

10. Twine - LW to 10

Image.jpeg.132c33721381d330a2a2763dfd3fbc51.jpegImage.jpeg.1c871c1f93f868c3114d8405937250aa.jpeg

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Down Town said:

 

Admit it, you completely forgot about the Millwall game, otherwise you would have made that point in your post 

Well possibly we have different definitions.

My basic definition is..

Concede first, win.

Also @And Its Smith

Put simply..

0-1

To 1-1

2-1

Whereas

1-0

2-0

2-1

2-2

2-3

3-3

4-3

Isn't.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps a better balanced version of Plan A then?

Twine out left can inhibit us offensively, creatively and defensively?

I haven’t seen yesterday’s game yet but was at derby and Blackburn. Manning said in his interview after that he isn’t playing out left he’s playing in a “10” in this shape in possession 

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For me it's the first truly recognisable in game management switches that have worked. Yu was the notable difference but twine being central looked more effective. Hopefully he's learning but we made hard work of it against a limited side (imho) so jury still out

I was a bit miffed about wells for sinclair. I would've gone fally or even fally alongside sinclair. The latter had just scored and looked lively. But he'll feel vindicated cos wells scored the pen though it didn't seem to make sense at the time.

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20 minutes ago, JAWS said:

For me it's the first truly recognisable in game management switches that have worked. Yu was the notable difference but twine being central looked more effective. Hopefully he's learning but we made hard work of it against a limited side (imho) so jury still out

I was a bit miffed about wells for sinclair. I would've gone fally or even fally alongside sinclair. The latter had just scored and looked lively. But he'll feel vindicated cos wells scored the pen though it didn't seem to make sense at the time.

Plus LM did it earlier. Both shape and or mindset but on HT rather than an hour in. It is something encouraging to take.

I suppose that could boost the confidence of Wells, all 3 strikers with at least one Goal on the board- with two young strikers a relatively refreshed yet experienced Wells could still be of use.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Plus LM did it earlier. Both shape and or mindset but on HT rather than an hour in. It is something encouraging to take.

I suppose that could boost the confidence of Wells, all 3 strikers with at least one Goal on the board- with two young strikers a relatively refreshed yet experienced Wells could still be of use.

Yes agree with all of that Pops & Wells pen was top drawer but I'd be disappointed if I was Fally. I'd have Sykes over Mehmeti too. He's just more intelligent. Think good move to start Roberts. I really rate him. Another intelligent player with good delivery. The ball for Armstrong first half was exquisite & deserved a goal.

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45 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

You said it’s the first time we have won from behind which explains my reaction 

He made a mistake but can't admit his mistake 

44 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well it is a commonly understood definition.

Exactly, you are wrong!! 

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12 minutes ago, Topper 123 said:

 

Look it's fairly simple.

Concede first goal, yet win anyway.

They are different different categories. 

The other category is score first, pegged back to level or behind but winning anyway.

Millwall in August was one and what a good game it was too!

Hull in December was another and gsme was also quite decent under the lights.

Middlesbrough at Home, best remembered for a TGH screamer- that was also a decent gsme, like Millwall at Home we went 2 up, pegged back to 2-2, 3-2!

If there are others I've forgotten in that second category I would welcome people pointing then out.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

The Bristol Sport Brigade are still about today I see.

Haha made me chuckle, I’m pretty neutral as think he got his line up 100% wrong yesterday but got his subs 100% right, don’t think there is an issue with us coming back from behind as we have now done it 3+ times under him, I’m guessing over 35 or so games in charge  that is prob about normish maybe in the championship, as a gambler I know the odds change a lot when a team goes behind! Key for me is getting the correct starting line up, Armstrong getting taken off after the hour every game doesn’t bother me as QPR fans will tell you he will blow in last 30 mins, we do need more half time subs from Liam, like Yu yesterday and Plymouth last season when he made 3 and changed the game, so he does need to be more brave at half time.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps a better balanced version of Plan A then?

Twine out left can inhibit us offensively, creatively and defensively?

I dunno.

Personally I don’t think there was a lot of difference in how we performed half to half overall.

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Just now, Bristol City mad man said:

Haha made me chuckle, I’m pretty neutral as think he got his line up 100% wrong yesterday but got his subs 100% right, don’t think there is an issue with us coming back from behind as we have now done it 3+ times under him, I’m guessing over 35 or so games in charge  that is prob about normish maybe in the championship, as a gambler I know the odds change a lot when a team goes behind! Key for me is getting the correct starting line up, Armstrong getting taken off after the hour every game doesn’t bother me as QPR fans will tell you he will blow in last 30 mins, we do need more half time subs from Liam, like Yu yesterday and Plymouth last season when he made 3 and changed the game, so he does need to be more brave at half time.

Agree with a lot of your post, the Sinclair change and QPR views on fitness did cross my mind.

The main premise was concede first goal and win..I think it's the first time under Manning and I'll credit him for that and his earlier changes than he often does.

A bit braver a bit earlier could help a lot.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.

Personally I don’t think there was a lot of difference in how we performed half to half overall.

I think we are all guilty of being swayed by the score line sometimes.  There was a guy that rang in to Radio Bristol after the game to say 1st half was unacceptable but 2nd half much better.  I saw 2 v similar halves where we were pretty (not totally) dominant throughout. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with a lot of your post, the Sinclair change and QPR views on fitness did cross my mind.

The main premise was concede first goal and win..I think it's the first time under Manning and I'll credit him for that and his earlier changes than he often does.

A bit braver a bit earlier could help a lot.

Yup agree there, braver half time changes from him is prob worth a fair few points over the season so hoping to see more of it

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.

Personally I don’t think there was a lot of difference in how we performed half to half overall.

Absolutely agree. Just a bit more urgency second half.  Eye test it was similar. Stats test it was similar.  Overall, I thought we thoroughly deserved to win and Oxford weren’t great. I also thought Bird was quality.  In the pub afterwards a mate disagreed with all of those points!!

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15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.

Personally I don’t think there was a lot of difference in how we performed half to half overall.

Think everyone who watched the game would say we were the better side for 90 minutes. Think we just had a bit more cutting edge second half. Anyone who didn’t would say it was a snatch and grab when that just wasn’t the case

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9 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

I think we are all guilty of being swayed by the score line sometimes.  There was a guy that rang in to Radio Bristol after the game to say 1st half was unacceptable but 2nd half much better.  I saw 2 v similar halves where we were pretty (not totally) dominant throughout. 

Steve From-Patchway I think.  I was surprised by that.

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Absolutely agree. Just a bit more urgency second half.  Eye test it was similar. Stats test it was similar.  Overall, I thought we thoroughly deserved to win and Oxford weren’t great. I also thought Bird was quality.  In the pub afterwards a mate disagreed with all of those points!!

Yep, game gets stretched a bit more naturally second half…and we should’ve been up at h-t imho.

Bird kinda bypassed my eye-test yesterday.  Sometimes I’m looking at other things, like the Knight press, Roberts positioning, so miss some things.  I’d love to just watch a game and follow the ball, it’s a bit of a curse realky.  Having said that I was glad to see him back in CM.  And I think most on here concur with you re his performance, so that’s enough for me.  I think he’s a real elegant distributor.  And I hope that if he takes on the main role as the one to hold more often than not, we will get Knight to play a bit more like an 8m and we’ll see the best of him again.  He got an assist yesterday, which has gone a bit unnoticed.  It was a good pick out, and a crisp finish.

I really want to watch the 90 back, so I can focus a bit more on Bird.

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5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Winning a game from behind.

Is tbis the start of a new flexibility and resilience? Changing both the shape and the team at HT perhaps helped, getting Yu on, moving Twine central etc.

Our Record prior to this in this regard was pitiful..16 League Games, 4 draws and 12 Losses.

Think it was 1-1 at Huddersfield in December, 1-1 v Watford on Twine Loan debut, 2-2 at Coventry the next game and a last gasp 1-1 v Huddersfield with a Wells penalty that was contentious. That was it.

Hardly a ringing endorsement is it. Twine should have been central first game he was available & imo bird was never a right fit for the 10 role . He’s better in midfield . 

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1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Hardly a ringing endorsement is it. Twine should have been central first game he was available & imo bird was never a right fit for the 10 role . He’s better in midfield . 

Hopefully the penny has dropped over free In issues is all I'll say.

I'm far from fully convinced that Manning is the right man but this has to be the start of something- what we don't want or need is streaks of wins, streaks of losses and a general inconsistency.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hopefully the penny has dropped over free In issues is all I'll say.

I'm fat from fully convinced that Manning is the right man hut this has to be the start of something- what we don't want or need is streaks of wins, streaks of losses and a general inconsistency.

Hope I’m wrong but I do see similarities in him & LJ. Both try & reinvent the wheel 

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3 hours ago, M.D said:

The only thing LM did was change the players and play them in their favoured positions and that was forced on him by Williams yellow card and looking like he may get another.

I don't think Knight was in his favoured position?

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5 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

Remember they missed an absolute sitter, plus I think their keeper could have done a lot better from the Armstrong equaliser 

I'd say Armstrong missed a sitter putting his first half header wide 

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's fairly obvious. 🤷‍♂️

The other week was quoted on OSIB and here as 0/16.

I'm late to this thread, but what is 0/16 please? 

 

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20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's fairly obvious. 🤷‍♂️

The other week was quoted on OSIB and here as 0/16.

I’m totally baffled. How can you say we didn’t “come from behind” when going from 3-2 down to 4-3 up? Why should that phrase only apply when we were behind first? I’m sorry but that is totally illogical and I don’t  believe it’s a widely accepted definition.

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10 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I’m totally baffled. How can you say we didn’t “come from behind” when going from 3-2 down to 4-3 up? Why should that phrase only apply when we were behind first? I’m sorry but that is totally illogical and I don’t  believe it’s a widely accepted definition.

Sorry it is.

Screenshot_20240922-232925_Chrome.thumb.jpg.9586b9fbf83cf9a1a22b95aea8b4a2da.jpg

Screenshot_20240922-233132_Chrome.thumb.jpg.b99facfafa19b7ba7fbad51e0ac72f18.jpgScreenshot_20240922-233145_Chrome.thumb.jpg.61b04722f4a0020f6d7e2c27ff7d1c4a.jpg

So far, sides who score first gain an average of 2.12 PPG.

Whereas sides who concede first?

Screenshot_20240922-233208_Chrome.thumb.jpg.ad6eced239e27ab1b819c4427e335b84.jpgScreenshot_20240922-233219_Chrome.thumb.jpg.ffb51bd7f1dab9b8ebeef294183a3d18.jpg

0.66 PPG.

I will rephrase, some people don't understand the importance of the first Goal clearly.

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12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think he changed the shape per se, “just” swapped the personnel within the shape when withdrawing Williams.

On RB LM said in the first half Twine played the 10 role, but started wide left and cut in when in possession. Obviously second half Mehmeti didn’t play the 10 role in possession, so surely in LM’s mind he’d changed the formation ? 

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9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Sorry it is.

Screenshot_20240922-232925_Chrome.thumb.jpg.9586b9fbf83cf9a1a22b95aea8b4a2da.jpg

Screenshot_20240922-233132_Chrome.thumb.jpg.b99facfafa19b7ba7fbad51e0ac72f18.jpgScreenshot_20240922-233145_Chrome.thumb.jpg.61b04722f4a0020f6d7e2c27ff7d1c4a.jpg

So far, sides who score first gain an average of 2.12 PPG.

Whereas sides who concede first?

Screenshot_20240922-233208_Chrome.thumb.jpg.ad6eced239e27ab1b819c4427e335b84.jpgScreenshot_20240922-233219_Chrome.thumb.jpg.ffb51bd7f1dab9b8ebeef294183a3d18.jpg

0.66 PPG.

I will rephrase, some people don't understand the importance of the first Goal clearly.

Puzzled. Why have you posted all that? It may be of interest who scored first but it’s absolutely nothing to do with a definition of “coming from behind”. We obviously came from behind against Millwall. That’s undeniable.

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1 minute ago, Leveller said:

Puzzled. Why have you posted all that? It may be of interest who scored first but it’s absolutely nothing to do with a definition of “coming from behind”. We obviously came from behind against Millwall. That’s undeniable.

Alan Carr GIF by The Masked Singer UK

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20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Winning a game from behind.

Is tbis the start of a new flexibility and resilience? Changing both the shape and the team at HT perhaps helped, getting Yu on, moving Twine central etc.

Our Record prior to this in this regard was pitiful..16 League Games, 4 draws and 12 Losses.

Think it was 1-1 at Huddersfield in December, 1-1 v Watford on Twine Loan debut, 2-2 at Coventry the next game and a last gasp 1-1 v Huddersfield with a Wells penalty that was contentious. That was it.

Basically YU got him out the s**t 😂

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16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.

Personally I don’t think there was a lot of difference in how we performed half to half overall.

I thought the same. I felt we were fairly consistent throughout the game. We were completely in control before their goal which was pretty fortuitous with the deflections which took it right into the path of the Oxford player. But that’s football isn’t it. 

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11 minutes ago, Tecknical Director said:

I thought the same. I felt we were fairly consistent throughout the game. We were completely in control before their goal which was pretty fortuitous with the deflections which took it right into the path of the Oxford player. But that’s football isn’t it. 

This was my take as well. We were dominant. We did struggle with their counter attacking on a few occasions, but it was a rare 90 minutes performance in my eyes. Not perfect by any means, but fairly  consistent.

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1 minute ago, Leveller said:

Highly amusing. But do you understand Mr P’s definition Dave?

Yes, I do…although much better if he’d written as “x y and z results when LM concedes the first goal”.

+++++

I always wondered how the likes of bbc and sky calculate their “points dropped” too, certainly when you get multiple swings in a match like Millwall.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, I do…although much better if he’d written as “x y and z results when LM concedes the first goal”.

+++++

I always wondered how the likes of bbc and sky calculate their “points dropped” too, certainly when you get multiple swings in a match like Millwall.

Had he written that, it would make sense. To say that is the definition of winning from behind doesn’t - IMHO.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, I do…although much better if he’d written as “x y and z results when LM concedes the first goal”.

+++++

I always wondered how the likes of bbc and sky calculate their “points dropped” too, certainly when you get multiple swings in a match like Millwall.

When was that spell where we kept conceding late goals, maybe early Nige, before he got a bit of backbone into us?

I see Sheffield Wednesday have that curse at the moment. Two games running Bannan has put them ahead, only for them to crumble. It's a nasty habit.

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19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

IMG_1705.jpeg.2c382e19ad3b51ce7233099dbd4d6573.jpeg

8. Williams off, 7. Hirakawa on

11. Mehmeti - RW to LW (where Twine was playing)

12. Knight - 10 to CM

10. Twine - LW to 10

Image.jpeg.132c33721381d330a2a2763dfd3fbc51.jpegImage.jpeg.1c871c1f93f868c3114d8405937250aa.jpeg

 

 

I must admit, I thought we went to a Back 3 second half with Roberts and Hirakawa as Wing backs that didn't need to defend... 

    GT          ZV           LM

YH      MB         JK           HR

       ST                   AM

                 SA

I know Tanner has been a lot more conservative this season but thought it was even more so second half Saturday and the extra Central defender seemed to improve Mcnally's performance after a very shaky first half!

                  

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3 minutes ago, mozo said:

This was my take as well. We were dominant. We did struggle with their counter attacking on a few occasions, but it was a rare 90 minutes performance in my eyes. Not perfect by any means, but fairly  consistent.

It was the closest we’ve come to a 90 min performance in a while.  Opponents will always have spells, just need us to avoid them having long spells.

I thought McEachran didn’t get any passes in midfield until they scored, then suddenly he’s popping balls around for 5-10 mins.  But that was the only “spell”, perhaps highlights a lack of resilience / leadership / whatever to losing a goal.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It was the closest we’ve come to a 90 min performance in a while.  Opponents will always have spells, just need us to avoid them having long spells.

I thought McEachran didn’t get any passes in midfield until they scored, then suddenly he’s popping balls around for 5-10 mins.  But that was the only “spell”, perhaps highlights a lack of resilience / leadership / whatever to losing a goal.

Yeah agreed. God it's so frustrating when you're on top in a game, then the opposition score and suddenly they're pinging it around with ease and you're playing a different team. Football is a merciless sport.

Sorry to keep asking you for things, but you've helpfully shared a chart before that shows the spells of dominance across a game? Where can I find that?

Edited by mozo
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18 minutes ago, mozo said:

When was that spell where we kept conceding late goals, maybe early Nige, before he got a bit of backbone into us?

I see Sheffield Wednesday have that curse at the moment. Two games running Bannan has put them ahead, only for them to crumble. It's a nasty habit.

Think much of that was fitness / fatigue, players tiring, yet inferior players on the bench, so opposition strengthened through subs, we became weaker, or left the players on who became more tired.

4 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

I must admit, I thought we went to a Back 3 second half with Roberts and Hirakawa as Wing backs that didn't need to defend... 

    GT          ZV           LM

YH      MB         JK           HR

       ST                   AM

                 SA

I know Tanner has been a lot more conservative this season but thought it was even more so second half Saturday and the extra Central defender seemed to improve Mcnally's performance after a very shaky first half!

                  

Funny you say that, the way we lined up at k-o suggested that too, but as soon as the game got back to normality it became 4231.  Think this is the in / out of possession stuff coming into the equation again.

IMG_1718.thumb.jpeg.09ed843a04393c1d0eb992aafd330a03.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah agreed. God it's so frustrating when you're on top in a game, then the opposition score and suddenly they're pinging it around with ease and you're playing a different team. Football is a merciless sport.

Sorry to keep asking you for things, but you've helpfully shared a chart before that shows the spells of dominance across a game? Where can I find that?

Sofascore:

IMG_1698.thumb.jpeg.e0c05863bf4c84f747aeafb83c549f32.jpeg

Bar the period after they scored, they offered nothing all game.  They were poor. We also made sure we made them poor.

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1 hour ago, hinsleburg said:

I must admit, I thought we went to a Back 3 second half with Roberts and Hirakawa as Wing backs that didn't need to defend... 

    GT          ZV           LM

YH      MB         JK           HR

       ST                   AM

                 SA

I know Tanner has been a lot more conservative this season but thought it was even more so second half Saturday and the extra Central defender seemed to improve Mcnally's performance after a very shaky first half!

                  

I started watching the game last night, only 20 mins or so in but we were clearly playing a back 3 in possession in that time. Robert’s was playing high as a WB and Twine more central in a left sided 10. A bit of the 3-4-2-1 from last season.

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12 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I started watching the game last night, only 20 mins or so in but we were clearly playing a back 3 in possession in that time. Robert’s was playing high as a WB and Twine more central in a left sided 10. A bit of the 3-4-2-1 from last season.

This is the crux of it isn’t it?  Trying to transition from 4231 without to 3421 with, and vice versa.  In particular the expectations of Pring / Roberts.

16th minute - Oxford in possession:

IMG_3101.thumb.jpeg.26326dce8d1daf354bb9848678294e37.jpeg

Just gonna have to adjust how we talk / write about these things.  Notwithstanding what issues I think it creates.

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