A first under Manning

[gornagain]

As a new fan of ChatGPT:-

"Winning a game from behind" refers to a situation in which a team or individual is losing during a significant portion of the game, but manages to turn the tide and ultimately win. This type of victory often demonstrates resilience, strategic adjustments, or exceptional performance in the latter part of the game. It is seen as a dramatic comeback, where the team that was trailing (in points, goals, or another scoring metric) overcomes the deficit to achieve victory.

This concept applies across various sports and games, including football, basketball, soccer, tennis, and even board games."

[Mr Popodopolous]

A few face palms to basic facts.

First game we have won in the League after Manning under going 1-0 down. Irrefutable and unequivocal.

Seems odd, some people have a very odd take and follow a strange narrative.

Edited Monday at 19:08 by Mr Popodopolous

[RedRock]

On 22/09/2024 at 19:45, steviestevieneville said:

Hope I’m wrong but I do see similarities in him & LJ. Both try & reinvent the wheel 

… and over-complicate what is basically a quite simple game, by over-thinking and trying to be clever, these often symptoms of a very hard working but often not very smart or highly motivational manager.

Hopefully, he will develop into a hard working, smart and motivational manager - the ideal. The team, which often reflects the characteristics of their manager, will then become a genuine threat. We seem some way from this position at the moment.

The team selection, formation, player positions for Swansea will establish whether Manning has the potential to deliver, or not, at least for me. 

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A few face palms to basic facts.

First game we have won in the League after Manning under going 1-0 down. Irrefutable and unequivocal.

Seems odd, some people have a very odd take and follow a strange narrative.

It’s because your OP was ambiguous.  That’s all.

[Mr Popodopolous]

35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s because your OP was ambiguous.  That’s all.

Fair, I'll write next one more clearly if it's a stat or similar.

[Fuber]

On 22/09/2024 at 17:08, Alan Dicks said:

Remember they missed an absolute sitter, plus I think their keeper could have done a lot better from the Armstrong equaliser 

I said on the matchday thread - there were positives going forward, such as general chance creation and Yu.

However, little evidence that the defensive siuation is any better - as per the Harris miss.

We got lucky to a degree, but also made our own luck - alternatively Oxford means little unless we build on any confience gained with a good performance against Swansea. Another Blackburn performance cannot be accepted.

Trying to be glass half full - but it was a marmite performance after two horrific defeats - I'd take a cleansheet draw against Swansea if it means McNally and Vyner get some confidence back.

[Fuber]

On 22/09/2024 at 19:45, steviestevieneville said:

Hope I’m wrong but I do see similarities in him & LJ. Both try & reinvent the wheel 

I actually think its an opposite problem.

LJ tried everything he could to counter the opposition - his normal behaviour was limited by practicality and injuries, when Diedhiou got injured - and forced to play Reid/Pato up top in a high press.

Once Diedhiou was back, he went back to trying to out-tactic the opposition, and it became stilted.

Manning - by comparison is trying to play to his system - which is what I felt we missed under LJ with respect to an identity. However that identity was always primarily defined by style of play, in my head - not formation which can become easily countered if not flexible, not fixed 'behaviours' which can also become predictable and therefore countered. Manning may say he doesnt believe in tactics, but his team setup predictably in possession, and then get punished on the break - Blackburn Highlighted this.

LJ was too flexible - trying to setup to counter each individual team he played, meaning the players were over-rotated and couldnt create synergy and became stilted in possession, stop-start. Manning is too inflexible to his setup and 'behaviours', meaning once his tactically gets countered, there is limited ability to react or adjust accordingly.

Based on what I've seen so far anyway. Hopefully the Yu sub highlights to him that adaptability and giving players more responsibility to outside the 'expected' behaviours and switch things up can be necassary to break teams down in posession.

Edited Monday at 21:37 by Fuber

[rednotblue]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Top one is just a simple “formation” graphic.

The Twine and Mehmeti ones are average passing position.

My idea of a "ten" is very different to Mannings

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, rednotblue said:

My idea of a "ten" is very different to Mannings

Bo Derek?

[mozo]

33 minutes ago, Fuber said:

I said on the matchday thread - there were positives going forward, such as general chance creation and Yu.

However, little evidence that the defensive siuation is any better - as per the Harris miss.

We got lucky to a degree, but also made our own luck - alternatively Oxford means little unless we build on any confience gained with a good performance against Swansea. Another Blackburn performance cannot be accepted.

Trying to be glass half full - but it was a marmite performance after two horrific defeats - I'd take a cleansheet draw against Swansea if it means McNally and Vyner get some confidence back.

Yeah my worry was that our confidence would be shot after those awful away losses, so to see us come out and look up for it was already a big plus. Given the circumstances, I was impressed.

At least now we go to Swansea with that boost to our self-belief, but Indo think we'll need to be really on it in that game.

[Red Skin]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A few face palms to basic facts.

First game we have won in the League after Manning under going 1-0 down. Irrefutable and unequivocal.

Seems odd, some people have a very odd take and follow a strange narrative.

We won a game coming from behind.  LM made changes at HT to change things and it worked.  And we get a 'Yeah, but' post from you.  

Your 'Could this be Manning Waterloo' thread didn't pan out and we have this effort now following a win.  

You're the one with the strange narrative.  How about just enjoy the win and the fact LM has made changes to affect the result, eh?

Face plant explained. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Red Skin said:

We won a game coming from behind.  LM made changes at HT to change things and it worked.  And we get a 'Yeah, but' post from you.  

Your 'Could this be Manning Waterloo' thread didn't pan out and we have this effort now following a win.  

You're the one with the strange narrative.  How about just enjoy the win and the fact LM has made changes to affect the result, eh?

Face plant explained. 

Thank you for explaining.

Well I'm just stating a fact, it's a landmark day. The impact of Yu is positive too. The strikers ending their mini drought is also positive.

The earlier than usual a) Substitution and b) To an extent shape change to be praised. He identified a potential issue or whatever and acted on it at HT. As is the decent start to the 2nd half as it's been a bit concerning in recent games.

I stand by my view that LM would've been under severe pressure had we lost on Saturday.

[Red Skin]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I stand by my view that LM would've been under severe pressure had we lost on Saturday.

Thanks for acknowledging the positives.  I find your posts on FFP  very helpful and enlightening, but it feels like you really have it in for LM, and any praise you give is usually given with a large dash of criticism. 

If you missus (or mister) loses a bit of weight, do you compliment them but also point out that they have been carrying an extra stone for the last 5 years just to give a bit of context?   Factually correct, but mealy mouthed and not really much of a compliment.

The Waterloo post felt more like a harbinger of doom, almost gleefully entertaining the thought of failure and the possible consequences.  Did you used to watch the acrobats at the circus just to see if they fell?

I do respect you as a poster and to your credit I knew I'd get a thought out and articulate reply, but because you are respected your comments have added gravitas.   Would be nice to see you being more gracious without having to qualify it. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:53 by Red Skin

[mozo]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I stand by my view that LM would've been under severe pressure had we lost on Saturday.

Definitely. You don't lose three games and not feel the heat.

There's a bit of symmetry because Nige lost 3 in a row in September/October 2022 and that's when the Nige Out brigade started becoming more vocal. That season, he had a good start, then a rough patch, then a good spell, then a poor end to the season. Finding a consistency is the key, but evidently extremely hard to do.

So, Manning has avoided the hat trick of defeats, but let's face it, if we lose to Swansea the pressure will build again.

[MarcusX]

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is the crux of it isn’t it?  Trying to transition from 4231 without to 3421 with, and vice versa.  In particular the expectations of Pring / Roberts.

16th minute - Oxford in possession:

Just gonna have to adjust how we talk / write about these things.  Notwithstanding what issues I think it creates.

Yes Manning said it in the interview too I think that Twine was playing 10 in possesion not "out on the left" and that Hayden was getting up the pitch. I don't know if Cam was struggling with the instruction, or with fitness but from what I've seen of the game so far ( i still really want to watch it all back but not had time) Roberts seemed to transition better.

There was one particular ball around the same time stamp where Vyner played a diagonal ping to Roberts well up on the left wing.

I quite like it if the players can master it. It's dynamic enough that it will cause teams problems (it did against Millwall and first 20 minutes against Derby) but when it isn't working it can be dreadful, as we saw at Blackburn.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I quite like it if the players can master it. It's dynamic enough that it will cause teams problems (it did against Millwall and first 20 minutes against Derby) but when it isn't working it can be dreadful, as we saw at Blackburn.

Yeah, got potential to be boom or bust though.

If we were unable to force Oxford to play out down their left, and they started getting at us down their right, it might’ve been a trickier game.  That didn’t happen, but we still got caught out in transition-defence.

The Harris miss being one example.

Knight loses possession in advanced phase of attack, both full-backs high.  Ball had come back to him from Tanner having retrieved at overhit cross from…..Roberts!!!!

 

[Fuber]

15 hours ago, Red Skin said:

We won a game coming from behind.  LM made changes at HT to change things and it worked.  And we get a 'Yeah, but' post from you.  

Your 'Could this be Manning Waterloo' thread didn't pan out and we have this effort now following a win.  

You're the one with the strange narrative.  How about just enjoy the win and the fact LM has made changes to affect the result, eh?

Face plant explained. 

Not speaking for all, but for me that was indeed Mannings Waterloo.

Not much different to Pearson against WBA, away, back in 2022.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, Red Skin said:

Thanks for acknowledging the positives.  I find your posts on FFP  very helpful and enlightening, but it feels like you really have it in for LM, and any praise you give is usually given with a large dash of criticism. 

If you missus (or mister) loses a bit of weight, do you compliment them but also point out that they have been carrying an extra stone for the last 5 years just to give a bit of context?   Factually correct, but mealy mouthed and not really much of a compliment.

The Waterloo post felt more like a harbinger of doom, almost gleefully entertaining the thought of failure and the possible consequences.  Did you used to watch the acrobats at the circus just to see if they fell?

I do respect you as a poster and to your credit I knew I'd get a thought out and articulate reply, but because you are respected your comments have added gravitas.   Would be nice to see you being more gracious without having to qualify it. 

Thank you firstly, FFP is a  hobbyhorse of mine, seeking to see if we can push forward as a club when others might be restricted or whatever.

I don't think I have it in for LM, I actually have a bigger issue with the hierarchy in fairness- I do have significant reservations about in particular, Tinnion and Jon Lansdown and their suitability for their respective positions.

I'll try and work on that, a problem is that when a change was made to get better and money spent expectations heighten. Patience frays a bit.

I see what you're saying, praise and criticism without caveat or reservation. Can be subconscious on my part.

I did honestly think severe pressure had we lost and there was (IMO anyway) a chance that a bad loss and it could have been it. Combining the run of form, the biggest crowd of the season, LM former club, Family Day etc.

Thank you and you too, I respect you as a poster...in my mind it was a good thing the fact we made the change at HT and the fact we turned it round from 0-1 to 2-1.

[Red Skin]

26 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Not speaking for all, but for me that was indeed Mannings Waterloo.

 

As long as we don't have a Waterloo every couple of months! 

At the start of the season there was excitement from many about the signings, but also an undercurrent of 'well, he's got the players he wanted, now he has to deliver'.  

I wonder at what stage Manning will just be accepted?  I still think that more than any other manager, he has been under more scrutiny than any other in my time watching City. 

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

I wonder at what stage Manning will just be accepted?

When he matches expectation over a reasonable period of time.

[Red Skin]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

When he matches expectation over a reasonable period of time.

Maybe yours are, Dave, but are everyone's expectations reasonable? If we had Pep, I swear they'd still be those calling for him to play someone else up front with Haaland. 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Maybe yours are, Dave, but are everyone's expectations reasonable? If we had Pep, I swear they'd still be those calling for him to play someone else up front with Haaland. 

“Everyone’s” - never

Most people’s expectations seem to be around the “top 10 but be in the mix” type ballpark…which seems reasonable doesnt it?

 

+++++

(Target / Objective is promotion, but that’s different to “met expectations”.  If LM got us into top-6 I’d say he’s over-achieved with what he has)

[Red Cyril 2]

On 22/09/2024 at 16:51, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps a better balanced version of Plan A then?

Twine out left can inhibit us offensively, creatively and defensively?

Ok so does Manning take the next step and start Against Swansea with the second half line up ? Which would be the next learnt lesson surly.

[Fuber]

18 hours ago, Red Skin said:

As long as we don't have a Waterloo every couple of months! 

At the start of the season there was excitement from many about the signings, but also an undercurrent of 'well, he's got the players he wanted, now he has to deliver'.  

I wonder at what stage Manning will just be accepted?  I still think that more than any other manager, he has been under more scrutiny than any other in my time watching City. 

As long as we keep top half. I.e. better than Pearson - he'll be fine.

That's the basic definition as set by the leadership. If they sack NP for being 13th they need to be consistent.

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 hours ago, Red Cyril 2 said:

Ok so does Manning take the next step and start Against Swansea with the second half line up ? Which would be the next learnt lesson surly.

Would hope so. Fingers crossed.

[38MC]

21 hours ago, Red Skin said:

I wonder at what stage Manning will just be accepted?  I still think that more than any other manager, he has been under more scrutiny than any other in my time watching City. 

Honestly, I think it will take one of three things: Promotion; a takeover; or possibly even the appointment of a CEO of a good pedigree. 

And the reason, unfortunately for him, has sweet fa to do with Manning himself but rather he is now the barometer by which the leadership are being judged. And that was the same for Lee Johnson, and much the same for Brian Tinnion as manager - these are 'judge us on them' appointments. And as the leadership they have a terrible record; we all question the suitability of Tinnion, his professionalism and indeed his likeability: Jon L, where should we start? Governance, what governance. 

And that is Manning's problem. He's an extension of the leadership and there just is not the trust there anymore. If he can deliver promotion, or in some ways be distanced from being seen as a JL/BT 'project', I think then he would be likely be judged without pre-conceived ideas. 

However, even if all that were to happen, if he keeps playing square pegs in round holes he will be judged. Just as any other manager will be. 

 

[Red Cyril 2]

1 hour ago, 38MC said:

Honestly, I think it will take one of three things: Promotion; a takeover; or possibly even the appointment of a CEO of a good pedigree. 

And the reason, unfortunately for him, has sweet fa to do with Manning himself but rather he is now the barometer by which the leadership are being judged. And that was the same for Lee Johnson, and much the same for Brian Tinnion as manager - these are 'judge us on them' appointments. And as the leadership they have a terrible record; we all question the suitability of Tinnion, his professionalism and indeed his likeability: Jon L, where should we start? Governance, what governance. 

And that is Manning's problem. He's an extension of the leadership and there just is not the trust there anymore. If he can deliver promotion, or in some ways be distanced from being seen as a JL/BT 'project', I think then he would be likely be judged without pre-conceived ideas. 

However, even if all that were to happen, if he keeps playing square pegs in round holes he will be judged. Just as any other manager will be. 

 

Yeah agree with you.

But would seem to me untill we have new ownership & manager we have a system which no one can totally get behind.

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

On 22/09/2024 at 17:44, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

The Bristol Sport Brigade are still about today I see.

Were you not accusing others of "censorship" and "shutting down conversation" over the summer?

Yet you want to label people as "Bristol Sport Brigade" for challenging your views here.

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

Were you not accusing others of "censorship" and "shutting down conversation" over the summer?

Yet you want to label people as "Bristol Sport Brigade" for challenging your views here.

Oddly I respond in kind at times.

Selective stats isn't an accusation that will go down well. They most likely aren't Bristol Sport, just fans with a different perhaps more positivist viewpoint.