Changes & Tweaks from Derby to Oxford.

[1960maaan]

We have all had our say on who should play 10 / CMF / AMF / or where ever , what I was interested in seeing was what tweaks Manning made to a disjointed and misfiring side that showed little improvement after 2 weeks "on the grass". 

I wasn't the only one who thought Twine would move central and Bird would be found a birth elsewhere . Dave Fevs mentioned Manning trying to play a hybrid back 4/3/5 with Tanner being the RCB come FB.  
What did we see Vs Oxford .
I'm sure they said Twine had moved inside at the start of the Robins TV coverage, but IMO it looked much like previous games . We lent heavily to the right with Twine coming in from the LMF role ,Knight I think was supposed to be the 10 and Mehmeti adding the width. What it appeared to me was almost , 2 x 10's and a winger. 

Below is the heatmap for Twine/Knight/Mehmeti , it shows most of our play is that right side. 

So a change of player but not system. I didn't think it changed much from Derby , but a bit more intensity from Blackburn which was desperately needed. 

Roberts was a good shout for that left side though. 
I'm a big fan of Pring, I think he's the better defender , but Roberts confidence and all round ability , plus his willingness to play further forward suits how we have been playing. Pring is a defender that likes to get forward, Roberts sees himself as a footballer who can defend. He is happy to attack on his own . 

Next that CB role and back to heatmaps.
Below is Tanner's HM for Oxford along with McNally to show where he actually played.

 

For comparison the one below is from Coventry at home. Much more like the FB/WB we thought he was playing.
L2R

And from the Derby game , similar.
R2L

 

It does look like left and right CB of a 3 as @Davefevs pointed out . 

Mehmeti doesn't link well with FB's , so Tanner not getting forward too much doesn't affect him and Knight helps to cover by being slightly further right. So almost like Twine & Knight were like 2x 10's that favoured the right side. 

2nd half we did see changes , quite bold changes TBF. 
Twine was allowed to move centrally and not interfere with anyones space as Knight dropped deeper and Hirakawa went wide right and Mehmeti wide left.  

It worked, Yu had a great 45 and we looked balanced , we also won ,so that colours everyones thinking . Personally I don't think we are likely to start Sunday with the same set up and XI that finished against Oxford.
Away against a stronger team ? 
I really think Williams will start , then it's fitting in Twine in that central role while getting the best from Knight & Bird. Hirakawa must be in contention to start ahead of Mehmeti and Roberts must have done enough to keep his place. I hope Twine finally starts centrally even if it means moving Bird to ALMF .
Some big and interesting decisions to be made and I hope it will be for the team and not just fitting players in.

 

[redkev]

10 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

We have all had our say on who should play 10 / CMF / AMF / or where ever , what I was interested in seeing was what tweaks Manning made to a disjointed and misfiring side that showed little improvement after 2 weeks "on the grass". 

I wasn't the only one who thought Twine would move central and Bird would be found a birth elsewhere . Dave Fevs mentioned Manning trying to play a hybrid back 4/3/5 with Tanner being the RCB come FB.  
What did we see Vs Oxford .
I'm sure they said Twine had moved inside at the start of the Robins TV coverage, but IMO it looked much like previous games . We lent heavily to the right with Twine coming in from the LMF role ,Knight I think was supposed to be the 10 and Mehmeti adding the width. What it appeared to me was almost , 2 x 10's and a winger. 

Below is the heatmap for Twine/Knight/Mehmeti , it shows most of our play is that right side. 

So a change of player but not system. I didn't think it changed much from Derby , but a bit more intensity from Blackburn which was desperately needed. 

Roberts was a good shout for that left side though. 
I'm a big fan of Pring, I think he's the better defender , but Roberts confidence and all round ability , plus his willingness to play further forward suits how we have been playing. Pring is a defender that likes to get forward, Roberts sees himself as a footballer who can defend. He is happy to attack on his own . 

Next that CB role and back to heatmaps.
Below is Tanner's HM for Oxford along with McNally to show where he actually played.

 

For comparison the one below is from Coventry at home. Much more like the FB/WB we thought he was playing.
L2R

And from the Derby game , similar.
R2L

 

It does look like left and right CB of a 3 as @Davefevs pointed out . 

Mehmeti doesn't link well with FB's , so Tanner not getting forward too much doesn't affect him and Knight helps to cover by being slightly further right. So almost like Twine & Knight were like 2x 10's that favoured the right side. 

2nd half we did see changes , quite bold changes TBF. 
Twine was allowed to move centrally and not interfere with anyones space as Knight dropped deeper and Hirakawa went wide right and Mehmeti wide left.  

It worked, Yu had a great 45 and we looked balanced , we also won ,so that colours everyones thinking . Personally I don't think we are likely to start Sunday with the same set up and XI that finished against Oxford.
Away against a stronger team ? 
I really think Williams will start , then it's fitting in Twine in that central role while getting the best from Knight & Bird. Hirakawa must be in contention to start ahead of Mehmeti and Roberts must have done enough to keep his place. I hope Twine finally starts centrally even if it means moving Bird to ALMF .
Some big and interesting decisions to be made and I hope it will be for the team and not just fitting players in.

 

All I see from them maps 1060 are bright intervals for Saturday followed by torrential downpours Sunday with a few bright spells later on 

[Davefevs]

52 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Mehmeti doesn't link well with FB's , so Tanner not getting forward too much doesn't affect him and Knight helps to cover by being slightly further right. So almost like Twine & Knight were like 2x 10's that favoured the right side. 

I’m not sure about that.  I thought Mehmeti on the right offered more to our build up on Saturday than Sykes has of late.  Mehmeti didn’t seem to get “hemmed-in” by this first touch like Sykes does, and is happy to go either way, infield or outside, either with the ball or via a pass.  Mehmeti didn’t pass back to Tanner at all on Saturday from the 7 passes he received from him.  I thought he played infield to Williams to keep us going forward on that first half.

[1960maaan]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not sure about that.  I thought Mehmeti on the right offered more to our build up on Saturday than Sykes has of late.  Mehmeti didn’t seem to get “hemmed-in” by this first touch like Sykes does, and is happy to go either way, infield or outside, either with the ball or via a pass.  Mehmeti didn’t pass back to Tanner at all on Saturday from the 7 passes he received from him.  I thought he played infield to Williams to keep us going forward on that first half.

Playing right with Tanner or left with Pring I have hardly ever seen AM play "with" his FB, just my opinion but there has never been a partnership where he's has worked in tandem. Of course it could be instruction and Tanner tucking further in it makes sense , but we don't see a FB going outside into space made by Mehmeti or rotating positions. We do see Mehmeti trying to get into the box to shoot , he may play into the MF but to me he has very rarely linked with his FB.
Hirakawa looked a much more rounded player in the times I've seen him , looking to bring others into the game. 
Sykes hasn't reached previous highs though I admit and I think he would look better in front of McCrorie , who is happy to bomb on than Tanner who is more defensively minded. Thos two might work as a pair, but Sykes has stopped taking the FB on this year, not sure why.

Edited Wednesday at 11:32 by 1960maaan

[mozo]

I just can't see Manning dropping Williams, but the domino effect then means either Bird or Knight further forward, which then means Yu on the bench or Twine on the left. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Playing right with Tanner or left with Pring I have hardly ever seen AM play "with" his FB, just my opinion but there has never been a partnership where he's has worked in tandem. Of course it could be instruction and Tanner tucking further in it makes sense , but we don't see a FB going outside into space made by Mehmeti or rotating positions. We do see Mehmeti trying to get into the box to shoot , he may play into the MF but to me he has very rarely linked with his FB.
Hirakawa looked a much more rounded player in the times I've seen him , looking to bring others into the game. 
Sykes hasn't reached previous highs though I admit and I think he would look better in front of McCrorie , who is happy to bomb on than Tanner who is more defensively minded. Thos two might work as a pair, but Sykes has stopped taking the FB on this year, not sure why.

I guess we are possibly saying similar but with different use of the word “partnership”???

What I generally (over-generalisation at that!) see in structured build-up with Sykes is:

Tanner passes to Sykes, Sykes takes a touch, finds himself under press from his full-back, passes it back to Tanner.

A-B-A

I guess that’s a partnership, but doesn’t achieve much!

What I saw with Mehmeti on Saturday first-half was:

Tanner passes to Mehmeti, Mehmeti takes a touch, either dribbling down line or infield or square pass to the available Williams to clip it into channel for Armstrong / Knight, or Mehmeti himself clip into Armstrong or Knight.

A-B dribble

A-B-C-D

A-B-D

Sykes prefers playing in open-space, not being hemmed-in on the touchline around half-way.

I look forward to seeing McCrorie and how he pairs up.

Mehmeti and Hirakawa are more alike than Sykes at RW.

 

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess we are possibly saying similar but with different use of the word “partnership”???

What I generally (over-generalisation at that!) see in structured build-up with Sykes is:

Tanner passes to Sykes, Sykes takes a touch, finds himself under press from his full-back, passes it back to Tanner.

A-B-A

I guess that’s a partnership, but doesn’t achieve much!

What I saw with Mehmeti on Saturday first-half was:

Tanner passes to Mehmeti, Mehmeti takes a touch, either dribbling down line or infield or square pass to the available Williams to clip it into channel for Armstrong / Knight, or Mehmeti himself clip into Armstrong or Knight.

A-B dribble

A-B-C-D

A-B-D

Sykes prefers playing in open-space, not being hemmed-in on the touchline around half-way.

I look forward to seeing McCrorie and how he pairs up.

Mehmeti and Hirakawa are more alike than Sykes at RW.

 

Look at the summary of strengths and weaknesses on these Dave.

Weakness...crossing

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/403757/Show/Anis-Mehmeti

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/376968/Show/Mark-Sykes

[Robbored]

Who determines the player characteristics?

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Who determines the player characteristics?

It's done by analytics and scouting 

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I guess we are possibly saying similar but with different use of the word “partnership”???

What I generally (over-generalisation at that!) see in structured build-up with Sykes is:

Tanner passes to Sykes, Sykes takes a touch, finds himself under press from his full-back, passes it back to Tanner.

A-B-A

I guess that’s a partnership, but doesn’t achieve much!

What I saw with Mehmeti on Saturday first-half was:

Tanner passes to Mehmeti, Mehmeti takes a touch, either dribbling down line or infield or square pass to the available Williams to clip it into channel for Armstrong / Knight, or Mehmeti himself clip into Armstrong or Knight.

A-B dribble

A-B-C-D

A-B-D

Sykes prefers playing in open-space, not being hemmed-in on the touchline around half-way.

I look forward to seeing McCrorie and how he pairs up.

Mehmeti and Hirakawa are more alike than Sykes at RW.

 

I know what you mean, and agree with the last part ,though I do wonder if coaching has had an impact on Sykes.
When he came here and up until fairly recently he was very "front foot" . He carried a real goal threat and took on fullbacks. Now he fronts up a FB and plays backwards, at Blackburn he looked like he was more interested in keeping possession than doing anything with it.  
That might be unfair, but I really got that impression. 

For me, Hirakawa plays head up and eager to play people in much more than Mehmeti , but I agree they are more similar than Sykes . That said Sykes hasn't been on in the stages of games we are "going for it"and really trying o get men forward. You can probably tell I'm a fan of Sykes, not so much Mehmeti , as for Yu ? Early days but promising I'd say and I would like to see him start Sunday.

[Eddie Notgetinya]

If Yu is considered match fit then not starting him is criminal, so he has to play. He starts wide which means Twine has to make way and slide into his correct position at 10. One of Williams, Bird or Knight gets dropped. I don’t mind losing but I can’t accept it if we have square pegs in round holes. Expect to see these changes for the next game - Onwards and upwards 

[robin_unreliant]

7 hours ago, mozo said:

I just can't see Manning dropping Williams, but the domino effect then means either Bird or Knight further forward, which then means Yu on the bench or Twine on the left. 

I tend to agree that he will want Williams in the team on Sunday. We do seem to have evolved into more of a home side nowadays and possibly need to be more focused on tightening up away from home. I would imagine he sees JW as key to achieving that.