Liam Pre Swansea - Some recent history is long ago and some not so recent is rewritten

[The Original OTIB]

15 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Just listened to snips based on the bullet points, thanks @Silvio Dante

As others have said, fairly odd and staggering points made & it’s bizarre they were left to simmer unchallenged. Not exactly things on balance either. 
 

Classic case of get asked something you aren’t expecting, feel rattled so just lash out with something totally untrue as you’re the person in power at the time. Sadly fairly common place still it seems.

 

Hes an extremely, extremely poor public communicator. Potentially the worst we’ve had, certainly since I’ve been a city fan anyway. 
 

 

SOD?

[redsquirrel]

2 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Not a fan then Pete?!

It'll be toxic on here Sunday night if we fail against Swansea.

What's concerning me is that the pathway for youngsters seems to have reached a brick wall. Never mind thinking about Ellison or Nelson making the matchday 20, even when fit Sam Bell is going to struggle to get in it.

Clubs in the bag - where have we heard that before

i took note of something LJ said yesterday,about sunderland. he was really bigging them up (i thought maybe angling at lining himself up for another interview one day) when he said 'they have a young squad doing very well but it will be interesting to see how their fitness levels cope when they reach the winter matches.'  made me think 'have our lot thought of that?'

[petehinton]

2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

SOD?

Dull, but I think he was largely pretty interesting to listen to tbh. Especially when it came to academy, category upgrading, style of play etc.  I think (rightly) so many fans made up their mind on him so early on that it almost didn’t matter though. 

[Son of Fred]

29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Scrolling thru this thread I’m glad that I’m not the only one who couldn’t be arsed to listen to his entire pre-match comments………..at least with LJ I was able stick with it even if it was just to hear what more hot air and waffle he could come up with.

The thing with Lee,the Johnsonism's were ridiculous at times - although I felt I was actually getting something of the man,giving us something of himself.

Same with big Nige- in his own fashion, we were getting something of him & his personality - no doubting that!

With Liam I don't feel he's giving us a sense of his real self at all - it's all under wraps & locked up behind the shutter - I can't warm to nothing.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

SOD?

Fans didn't like SoD because the majority didn't have a clue as to the shit storm he had inherited throughout the Club. It was a complete mess. 

Fans couldn't understand his frustrations.

They just saw the results on the pitch. 

What he was trying to deal with off it, was an unprofessional bag of shit. 

[italian dave]

15 minutes ago, petehinton said:

 

 

Hes an extremely, extremely poor public communicator. Potentially the worst we’ve had, certainly since I’ve been a city fan anyway. 
 

 

Never a truer word, Pete! 

Not that it’s his fault: few managers are great public communicators, and you wonder why the powers that be insist on them being dragged out to be interviewed at every opportunity!

The problem is that whilst people grumble about his interviews being unlistenable, if he didn’t do them then people would grumble about poor communication from the club. And if he got someone else to do them people would grumble about him passing the buck and not owning the mistakes.

And I have a suspicion that in many cases those people grumbling in each of those scenarios would be the same people! 

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Not a fan then Pete?!

It'll be toxic on here Sunday night if we fail against Swansea.

What's concerning me is that the pathway for youngsters seems to have reached a brick wall. Never mind thinking about Ellison or Nelson making the matchday 20, even when fit Sam Bell is going to struggle to get in it.

Clubs in the bag - where have we heard that before

But it was always going to. I keep coming back to this point of due diligence and it’s massive. Liam has never brought through academy players. It’ll be the case that across three jobs and four seasons the record is nada. 
 

That doesn’t make him a bad coach in and of itself. What it does say is that if you are Lansdown and Tinnion and your modus operandi as a club is youth development, when appointing a coach you seek someone who fits that ethos. And Liam talked a good game on that front (his interview on appointment at Oxford re using academy was almost word for word his here). But JL/BT didn’t do the due diligence to see if the reality matched the rhetoric. And because they didn’t, as long as Liams here, we will have no real pathway. Bottom line.

[The Original OTIB]

Just now, petehinton said:

Dull, but I think he was largely pretty interesting to listen to tbh. Especially when it came to academy, category upgrading, style of play etc.  I think (rightly) so many fans made up their mind on him so early on that it almost didn’t matter though. 

True, but still more of a coach than a manager. The HEAD COACH model still calls for leadership, many don't have that and get found out.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Fans didn't like SoD because the majority didn't have a clue as to the shit storm he had inherited throughout the Club. It was a complete mess. 

Fans couldn't understand his frustrations.

They just saw the results on the pitch. 

What he was trying to deal with off it, was an unprofessional bag of shit. 

Agreed, but talking about comms skills not coaching ability. See response to Pete H as well.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Never a truer word, Pete! 

Not that it’s his fault: few managers are great public communicators, and you wonder why the powers that be insist on them being dragged out to be interviewed at every opportunity!

The problem is that whilst people grumble about his interviews being unlistenable, if he didn’t do them then people would grumble about poor communication from the club. And if he got someone else to do them people would grumble about him passing the buck and not owning the mistakes.

And I have a suspicion that in many cases those people grumbling in each of those scenarios would be the same people! 

A poor communicator, who has no personality , dull to the extreme..who coaches our players daily. 

That sounds like a recipe for success...not

[spudski]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

Agreed, but talking about comms skills not coaching ability. See response to Pete H as well.

You have to have good communication skills, to pass on your coaching knowledge. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

You have to have good communication skills, to pass on your coaching knowledge. 

True that.

In reality, once players get to a certain age/level, there really isn’t that much you can teach them technically. Maybe little tweaks but they should know a lot of what to do with the ball.

The skill at that point becomes seeing the game, understanding how to exploit the opposition and, crucially, psychology. You have to be able to communicate, to motivate.

I’d probably wager Liam is a fantastic technical coach, and there is nobody I’d probably rather have running an academy to instil technique and ethos. I’m just not sure he’s capable of the second paragraph.

[Son of Fred]

13 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Not a fan then Pete?!

It'll be toxic on here Sunday night if we fail against Swansea.

What's concerning me is that the pathway for youngsters seems to have reached a brick wall. Never mind thinking about Ellison or Nelson making the matchday 20, even when fit Sam Bell is going to struggle to get in it.

Clubs in the bag - where have we heard that before

Feels like we've now turned full circle,, you'd think someone would have the awareness not to use this route again - dozing at the wheel!

Look forward to the next podcast,Dave - could be a lively episode!

[Moulin Rougier]

I really want to like him, like I do all City managers and players, why wouldn't, I'm a City fan and want them to succede and I want to have an affinity to the club I support. But I just can't.

He reminds me of most politicians nowadays - deflects questions he doesn't want, blatently makes up answers to fit his narrative and gets stressed when anyone questions that narrative.

As we've seen with the rot in out political system, its almost dangerous when individuals like this are in charge. Their inability to acknowledge facts and recognise what is going on around them has a direct detriment on their decision making ability, making bad ones that don't reflect the reality. Hurrumph.

[petehinton]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

You have to have good communication skills, to pass on your coaching knowledge. 

This is where I’d defend him tbf. I’ve worked with & seen many coaches/managers, who are Manning-esq, awkward, timid and shy people but put boots on them, a bag of balls and a training session to lead and they turn into absolutely different people. 
 

Same in the reverse, is a reason why so many ex pros say they absolutely shit themselves when leading their first training session if trying to transition to a coach. 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

This is where I’d defend him tbf. I’ve worked with & seen many coaches/managers, who are Manning-esq, awkward, timid and shy people but put boots on them, a bag of balls and a training session to lead and they turn into absolutely different people. 
 

Same in the reverse, is a reason why so many ex pros say they absolutely shit themselves when leading their first training session if trying to transition to a coach. 

Well let's hope this is the case. It doesn't mean he does though. 

I think coaching is one thing...however...having respect for the experience you have as a coach, and the knowledge on how to manage in games in the Championship is another.

However good at coaching...as a player, I would always doubt the latter. 

[The Original OTIB]

25 minutes ago, spudski said:

You have to have good communication skills, to pass on your coaching knowledge. 

PUBLIC COMMS.

[mozo]

My personal thoughts are that these press conferences are not for Manning to entertain fans, or to give analysis for football nerds like us. The objective is simply to give the media some basic soundbites so they can write a story.

I bet only a small % of City fans even watch these things, and most will read the story in the press and barely take it in.

So, I'm not especially bothered about the content of these things, or how charismatic the guy is.

There have been a few comments asking how he motivates players. God knows, but he does. That's all that matters. Irrespective of team selections and tactics, his side always goes out looking motivated and never down tools.

Off the back of two shocking defeats, we still came out against Oxford looking confident and up for it, and we dominated most of the game. There must be interpersonal skills there.

There will be people that just don't like him because he comes across as conceited and dry, just like some didn't Nige for being too belligerent, or LJ for being too self-promoting. And the next manager will have some their own characteristic that ruffles people's feathers. Such is life.

Ultimately though, as much as we can criticise his persona, his tactics, selections etc, the performances and results are what matters. He can be as weird as he wants if his team produces the goods.

 

[italian dave]

28 minutes ago, spudski said:

A poor communicator, who has no personality , dull to the extreme..who coaches our players daily. 

That sounds like a recipe for success...not

I deliberately said "public communicator" - as did Pete.

In my experience, public communication and communicating to small groups, teams etc are entirely different things and different skills.

[FNQ]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

My personal thoughts are that these press conferences are not for Manning to entertain fans, or to give analysis for football nerds like us. The objective is simply to give the media some basic soundbites so they can write a story.

I bet only a small % of City fans even watch these things, and most will read the story in the press and barely take it in.

So, I'm not especially bothered about the content of these things, or how charismatic the guy is.

There have been a few comments asking how he motivates players. God knows, but he does. That's all that matters. Irrespective of team selections and tactics, his side always goes out looking motivated and never down tools.

Off the back of two shocking defeats, we still came out against Oxford looking confident and up for it, and we dominated most of the game. There must be interpersonal skills there.

There will be people that just don't like him because he comes across as conceited and dry, just like some didn't Nige for being too belligerent, or LJ for being too self-promoting. And the next manager will have some their own characteristic that ruffles people's feathers. Such is life.

Ultimately though, as much as we can criticise his persona, his tactics, selections etc, the performances and results are what matters. He can be as weird as he wants if his team produces the goods.

 

Do you seriously believe what you’re writing? Of course fans are interested in what the manager of their team has to say… you should be to.

[Sir Geoff]

30 minutes ago, mozo said:

My personal thoughts are that these press conferences are not for Manning to entertain fans, or to give analysis for football nerds like us. The objective is simply to give the media some basic soundbites so they can write a story.

I bet only a small % of City fans even watch these things, and most will read the story in the press and barely take it in.

So, I'm not especially bothered about the content of these things, or how charismatic the guy is.

There have been a few comments asking how he motivates players. God knows, but he does. That's all that matters. Irrespective of team selections and tactics, his side always goes out looking motivated and never down tools.

Off the back of two shocking defeats, we still came out against Oxford looking confident and up for it, and we dominated most of the game. There must be interpersonal skills there.

There will be people that just don't like him because he comes across as conceited and dry, just like some didn't Nige for being too belligerent, or LJ for being too self-promoting. And the next manager will have some their own characteristic that ruffles people's feathers. Such is life.

Ultimately though, as much as we can criticise his persona, his tactics, selections etc, the performances and results are what matters. He can be as weird as he wants if his team produces the goods.

 

Except his soundbites to the press were downright lies. Thus 2 more pages of fans questioning his integrity as well as suitability to be the public face of 'our' football club.

And does anyone actually read the local press anymore ?

[1960maaan]

I can't watch these things, I did try with this one and made it through to the first change of reporter. 
I miss Piercy .

TBF I did no enjoy Pearson's Pressers when he first came, and he was way more experienced. When he settled I started to enjoy them, whether the same will happen with Manning who knows.

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Watch the scratch of the neck (sometimes ear)…he’s no poker player!

Some on here might say he's no Manager 

1 hour ago, slartibartfast said:

FFS, can't you lot leave the guy alone................rightly or wrongly he ain't going anywhere for the time being !

This is where I am ATM .
I will try and look for positives and point out negatives , but to hope for a change is pointless for now.

[Steve Watts]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

He’s bland and as others have said how he motivates the players is a mystery. If he was my boss I’d doze off.

If he was playing slick, fast paced and exciting football then I’m sure we’d all look past his defects but unfortunately he’s not doing that.

His post match interviews have given me some of the most exhilarating experiences of my life.  Many a journey home has been filled with the excitement of not knowing if I can make it home without falling asleep at the wheel! 

[big dosser]

i will watch it tonight as i find it works better than a sleeping pill

[Bristol City mad man]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

My personal thoughts are that these press conferences are not for Manning to entertain fans, or to give analysis for football nerds like us. The objective is simply to give the media some basic soundbites so they can write a story.

I bet only a small % of City fans even watch these things, and most will read the story in the press and barely take it in.

So, I'm not especially bothered about the content of these things, or how charismatic the guy is.

There have been a few comments asking how he motivates players. God knows, but he does. That's all that matters. Irrespective of team selections and tactics, his side always goes out looking motivated and never down tools.

Off the back of two shocking defeats, we still came out against Oxford looking confident and up for it, and we dominated most of the game. There must be interpersonal skills there.

There will be people that just don't like him because he comes across as conceited and dry, just like some didn't Nige for being too belligerent, or LJ for being too self-promoting. And the next manager will have some their own characteristic that ruffles people's feathers. Such is life.

Ultimately though, as much as we can criticise his persona, his tactics, selections etc, the performances and results are what matters. He can be as weird as he wants if his team produces the goods.

 

Some good points here, no manager has ever got sacked based offa  press conferences unless he has said something serious that makes the club or employer act (i.e. Glenn Hoddle at England!) so a straight bat approach is one to adopt if your not a natural (which clearly he's not) and think a lot of managers do get pretty defensive when bouncers are thrown at them but LM is probably best ducking them rather than having a go at them back as they are not there to be hit at the moment. As you say it is results and performances that matter and they do need to get better and hoping we will see a nice positive performance at Swansea on Sunday with super Yu running riot on the wing and Twiney pulling the strings at a very central 10

[One Team]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

This is where I’d defend him tbf. I’ve worked with & seen many coaches/managers, who are Manning-esq, awkward, timid and shy people but put boots on them, a bag of balls and a training session to lead and they turn into absolutely different people. 
 

Same in the reverse, is a reason why so many ex pros say they absolutely shit themselves when leading their first training session if trying to transition to a coach. 

Good points Pete. 

I wonder in reality then would be better as a coach to a manager, rather than being totally in charge? 

[Alessandro]

I’ve watched it and personally don’t get as offended by some of the comments as others are - puts a positive spin on defeats which is fine (exception - the only 3/4 for players when I arrived comment - someone laughable)

But my general feeling is - this side of the job doesn’t come naturally to him - is he being coached, or briefed/prepped by the comms team? Because it appears he isn’t. When he goes off piste in answers he does pull out some, odd, comments.

And secondly - I just get a real sense that when he says “we” he means “me”, if you know what I mean. He doesn’t seem protective of his players, he doesn’t look to bring people together, players, staff, fans etc - case in the point the talk about the derby could be a good time to say we want to do it for the fans or something - in fact I don’t think he mentions the fans once all interview. Come to think of it - he doesn’t mention anyone else (in terms of staff) either.

He just seems isolated and looks to be feeling the pressure.

[stephenkibby.]

3 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Well aboard the bandwagon there, isn't he....will have brought a warm autumnal glow to BT & JL.

That Johnson guy we had as manager really got the Bandwagon going.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

Unfortunately, not just this particular thread is it ? I'm no great lover of him or his style..........but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.......no amount of personal carping is going to change anything, just support him or at least leave him alone .

The hierarchy at AG all read this forum slarti largely to asses the feelings of the fanbase - I’m not saying that they take much notice tho……….…..

The only factor that really matters is the league position and we can all rest assured that if City are flirting with the drop zone come Feb/March next year they’ll act just as they did with Dean Holden.

This is a fans forum and like every all of them discussions/debates are continuous. The players, the manager, formations and the owners are all under scrutiny.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Fans didn't like SoD because the majority didn't have a clue as to the shit storm he had inherited throughout the Club. It was a complete mess. 

Fans couldn't understand his frustrations.

They just saw the results on the pitch. 

What he was trying to deal with off it, was an unprofessional bag of shit. 

That & the fact we lost pretty much every game.

He definitely left Cotts a better legacy than the one he inherited (likes of Flint, Pack & Fielding) but doesn’t hold a light to his successor for me.

Edited 13 hours ago by GrahamC

[Charlie BCFC]

15 hours ago, Super said:

How predictable this thread is every week.

What are you doing mate? You’re not allowed to have a difference of opinion here!

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The hierarchy at AG all read this forum slarti largely to asses the feelings of the fanbase - I’m not saying that they take much notice tho……….…..

 

I think you’ll find they do (or at least prior incumbents did). As you know from personal experience…

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

Never a truer word, Pete! 

Not that it’s his fault: few managers are great public communicators, and you wonder why the powers that be insist on them being dragged out to be interviewed at every opportunity!

The problem is that whilst people grumble about his interviews being unlistenable, if he didn’t do them then people would grumble about poor communication from the club. And if he got someone else to do them people would grumble about him passing the buck and not owning the mistakes.

And I have a suspicion that in many cases those people grumbling in each of those scenarios would be the same people! 

Get on!  It’s a pre-match interview, it’s a future look as much of anything, unlike a post-match when everything is raw.

We want to hear from Hogg.  We heard him once since he’s been here.  Nige sent Curtis out regularly, and it was a breath of fresh air.  It broke up the sometimes monotony of Nige.  “Hoggy” had a similar feel to Curtis.

We are about to hit a period of weekend, midweek, weekend games, get Hogg out there. Give yourself a break, take any pressure off you.

And use Krause too.

2 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Look forward to the next podcast,Dave - could be a lively episode!

Only if Ian isn’t allowed to hijack any critique with ridiculous and exaggerated claims to complely shut down that critique.

2 hours ago, mozo said:

My personal thoughts are that these press conferences are not for Manning to entertain fans, or to give analysis for football nerds like us. The objective is simply to give the media some basic soundbites so they can write a story.

I bet only a small % of City fans even watch these things, and most will read the story in the press and barely take it in.

So, I'm not especially bothered about the content of these things, or how charismatic the guy is.

There have been a few comments asking how he motivates players. God knows, but he does. That's all that matters. Irrespective of team selections and tactics, his side always goes out looking motivated and never down tools.

Off the back of two shocking defeats, we still came out against Oxford looking confident and up for it, and we dominated most of the game. There must be interpersonal skills there.

There will be people that just don't like him because he comes across as conceited and dry, just like some didn't Nige for being too belligerent, or LJ for being too self-promoting. And the next manager will have some their own characteristic that ruffles people's feathers. Such is life.

Ultimately though, as much as we can criticise his persona, his tactics, selections etc, the performances and results are what matters. He can be as weird as he wants if his team produces the goods.

 

Sounds like you’ve taken LM at his word and disregarded games that we didn’t perform in!

Final bold bit, that’s the issue though…his teams aren’t producing the good.  He therefore doesn’t get cut any slack for the other stuff.

 

[italian dave]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Get on!  It’s a pre-match interview, it’s a future look as much of anything, unlike a post-match when everything is raw.

We want to hear from Hogg.  We heard him once since he’s been here.  Nige sent Curtis out regularly, and it was a breath of fresh air.  It broke up the sometimes monotony of Nige.  “Hoggy” had a similar feel to Curtis.

We are about to hit a period of weekend, midweek, weekend games, get Hogg out there. Give yourself a break, take any pressure off you.

And use Krause too.

 

 

It’s still public speaking though Dave, that’s the point. Doesn’t matter whether it’s pre match, post match, middle of the match. Some people just don’t relish it, don’t like talking to a camera/mic, are very uncomfortable with it.

Yes, I’d agree on Hogg, Krause too. I was just making the point that some would find fault in that too because for some he can do no right.

But some. Not everyone. Not you! 

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

There will be people that just don't like him because he comes across as conceited and dry, just like some didn't Nige for being too belligerent, or LJ for being too self-promoting. And the next manager will have some their own characteristic that ruffles people's feathers. Such is life.

Ultimately though, as much as we can criticise his persona, his tactics, selections etc, the performances and results are what matters. He can be as weird as he wants if his team produces the goods.

That’s the bottom line Mozo - league position is all the hierarchy care about.

[Steve Watts]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

He just seems isolated and looks to be feeling the pressure.

He's isolated himself though with his 'I win matches, players lose them' attitude that he portrays.

12 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s still public speaking though Dave, that’s the point. Doesn’t matter whether it’s pre match, post match, middle of the match. Some people just don’t relish it, don’t like talking to a camera/mic, are very uncomfortable with it.

Yes, I’d agree on Hogg, Krause too. I was just making the point that some would find fault in that too because for some he can do no right.

But some. Not everyone. Not you! 

Again he's really only got himself to blame there. As someone with no discernable playing career he's wanted to get into management and get to the top of the game. Facing the media is a massive part of that. While he wasn't training full time he could've taken life coaching lessons and media training etc to prepare him for all aspects of the job he wanted. It feels like it's arrogance more than anything to me. He believes his methods are perfect and so is thrown when someone dares offer an opposing viewpoint. 

Certainly could do with a lesson in humility and introspection.

Edited 11 hours ago by Steve Watts

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think you’ll find they do (or at least prior incumbents did). As you know from personal experience…

By hierarchy I mean the owners - no proper manager take’s the slightest notice of otib.

[95red]

Glad someone  wrote what he's  said ,can't listen  to him the most uninspiring  manager since odismal  ,if he's here come may then I hope he's probably  keeped us up .

[fisherrich]

19 hours ago, Jose said:

He really does spout rubbish at times. So shockers like Blackburn and Derby should be forgotten as they were weeks ago and a few games ago? Does he think we are stupid? 
 

Last season we were talking about Southampton months afterwards. 
 

I can’t bring myself to listen to his interviews. The complete opposite to “ he who shall not be named” 

 

I do appreciate the breakdown though @Silvio Dante

Nothing against LM but by Christ he does sound like Johnson all over again. Worrying.

[harvey54]

Always going to be 2 poor defeats away from the sack in my eyes.

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, Bristol City mad man said:

Some good points here, no manager has ever got sacked based offa  press conferences unless he has said something serious that makes the club or employer act (i.e. Glenn Hoddle at England!) so a straight bat approach is one to adopt if your not a natural (which clearly he's not) and think a lot of managers do get pretty defensive when bouncers are thrown at them but LM is probably best ducking them rather than having a go at them back as they are not there to be hit at the moment. As you say it is results and performances that matter and they do need to get better and hoping we will see a nice positive performance at Swansea on Sunday with super Yu running riot on the wing and Twiney pulling the strings at a very central 10

Minor point, but im fairly confident in saying Cotterill was sacked pre-Boro because of his comments in the club pre match presser. 

[mozo]

57 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sounds like you’ve taken LM at his word and disregarded games that we didn’t perform in!

Final bold bit, that’s the issue though…his teams aren’t producing the good.  He therefore doesn’t get cut any slack for the other stuff.

 

Thanks for the reply bud. 

No, I'm definitely not taking him at his word, or even disagreeing regards the criticism. Silvio's right to point out what he does (and I always appreciate his breakdown). Maybe I should have opened with that. The criticism is fair.

I'm just sharing my position that I don't feel outraged or perturbed by it.

And you and I are in agreement that he isn't producing the goods at the moment. But we're not far off.

I'll remain patient with and respectful(ish) to Manning until it's conclusive that he's going to fail this season. At this moment I genuinely can't tell.

If we're 16th in the league in March you might see me slagging him off with full force on any subject I can . Until that time his pressers don't especially bother me.

[italian dave]

40 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

He's isolated himself though with his 'I win matches, players lose them' attitude that he portrays.

Again he's really only got himself to blame there. As someone with no discernable playing career he's wanted to get into management and get to the top of the game. Facing the media is a massive part of that. While he wasn't training full time he could've taken life coaching lessons and media training etc to prepare him for all aspects of the job he wanted. It feels like it's arrogance more than anything to me. He believes his methods are perfect and so is thrown when someone dares offer an opposing viewpoint. 

Certainly could do with a lesson in humility and introspection.

It's not just LM though, is it. 95% of managers don't like doing it/are no good at it. It's made a massive part of the job by the media, by the sponsors, by the clubs kow-towing to both of those.

LM may be the worst, as @petehinton has suggested, but I struggle to recall any of our managers who was any good at it! Whether it's sniffling, or bombast, or bullshit, or just plain grumpiness I can't say that I've found any of them really sounding comfortable and/or informative.

If it was the case - as in other sectors - that the massive part it represents was reflected in the recruitment process then maybe things would be different. The public face of most other organisations would expect their capability for that role to be assessed as part of the recruitment process. But I wouldn't mind betting that it gets pretty much no consideration as part of football management recruitment.

 

[Bristol City mad man]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Get on!  It’s a pre-match interview, it’s a future look as much of anything, unlike a post-match when everything is raw.

We want to hear from Hogg.  We heard him once since he’s been here.  Nige sent Curtis out regularly, and it was a breath of fresh air.  It broke up the sometimes monotony of Nige.  “Hoggy” had a similar feel to Curtis.

We are about to hit a period of weekend, midweek, weekend games, get Hogg out there. Give yourself a break, take any pressure off you.

And use Krause too.

Only if Ian isn’t allowed to hijack any critique with ridiculous and exaggerated claims to complely shut down that critique.

Sounds like you’ve taken LM at his word and disregarded games that we didn’t perform in!

Final bold bit, that’s the issue though…his teams aren’t producing the good.  He therefore doesn’t get cut any slack for the other stuff.

 

Hogg speaks quite well (based on the 2 interviews in 1 year i've heard!) he's to the point, non messing style but in a warmingish honest manner so think that's a good suggestion!

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, harvey54 said:

Always going to be 2 poor defeats away from the sack in my eyes.

Mmmmmm....always going to be 2 poor defeats away from OTIB calling for the sack, maybe....

[mozo]

3 hours ago, FNQ said:

Do you seriously believe what you’re writing? Of course fans are interested in what the manager of their team has to say… you should be to.

I'm a typical OTIB City obsessive, so of course I want him to indulge my curiosity for what's happening behind the scenes. But his press duties don't take that into account and nor should they.

How many people at Ashton Gate on a Saturday will watch that video? A small %. Most will just want to see the headlines. 

He needs to win games though.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

It’s still public speaking though Dave, that’s the point. Doesn’t matter whether it’s pre match, post match, middle of the match. Some people just don’t relish it, don’t like talking to a camera/mic, are very uncomfortable with it.

Yes, I’d agree on Hogg, Krause too. I was just making the point that some would find fault in that too because for some he can do no right.

But some. Not everyone. Not you! 

The thing is though Dave, the majority of our young players are far more comfortable and natural in front of a camera. I know they have media training. 

I've had to do it with the press in Canada regarding Skiing, and yes it's weird with a mic and camera. However, you get used to it, and speak to the interviewer and ignore the camera. 

[The turtle]

3 hours ago, FNQ said:

Do you seriously believe what you’re writing? Of course fans are interested in what the manager of their team has to say… you should be to.

I think most fans really don't listen to most days before match stuff! I certainly don't. Never have. Most of it is pointless! 

I means what's he going to say? They are pretty pointless really.

Now the forum , I'll read most threads! What a manager has to say days before a game? Really don't care.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

While he wasn't training full time he could've taken life coaching lessons and media training etc to prepare him for all aspects of the job he wanted.

Pearson did exactly that.  His son once asked why he talked completely different on the telly to how he talked at home.  At home he talked very fast.  One of the OTIBers has met him a few times and said he’s very different.

37 minutes ago, Bristol City mad man said:

Hogg speaks quite well (based on the 2 interviews in 1 year i've heard!) he's to the point, non messing style but in a warmingish honest manner so think that's a good suggestion!

Yep, well described.

[temp]

Dont know why just have a pic in my mind of Tinman and LM sat on the bench after Swansea game, couldnt happen could it...Tinman has a job for life...or until Lansdowns jog on anyway.

[grifty]

53 minutes ago, Bristol City mad man said:

Hogg speaks quite well (based on the 2 interviews in 1 year i've heard!) he's to the point, non messing style but in a warmingish honest manner so think that's a good suggestion!

But you know people would be straight onto LM saying he is passing responsibility, hiding from the media, etc if Hogg did more interviews.

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, grifty said:

But you know people would be straight onto LM saying he is passing responsibility, hiding from the media, etc if Hogg did more interviews.

Some people will moan about anything or moan they have nothing to moan about , you can't stop that . 
IMO the content is secondary , as just seeing a different face and hearing a different voice would make the information  more interesting. The things they say would be similar as they are working together, slight change in perspective or ideas, but predominately the same. 
With Sat/Tues/Sat games coming up thats 6 pressers a week, that's a lot of the same answers to the same questions , at least a change of face would break things up. I thought it worked well under Pearson.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

But you know people would be straight onto LM saying he is passing responsibility, hiding from the media, etc if Hogg did more interviews.

Would they really?  It’s been the done thing since:

• LJ with Macca
• DH with Keith (Simmo rarely)
• NP with Curtis (sometimes Jase)

I don’t recall anyone suggesting any of the 3 heads were shirking responsibility.

[italian dave]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Would they really?  It’s been the done thing since:

• LJ with Macca
• DH with Keith (Simmo rarely)
• NP with Curtis (sometimes Jase)

I don’t recall anyone suggesting any of the 3 heads were shirking responsibility.

Oh, I do, Dave. After a defeat/on a bad run, of course.

And no, I’m not going to trawl through a zillion OTIB posts to prove it

[lotusman]

His communication skills do not cause me real concern, in the overall context of judgement like all managers/coaches he will be judged by results and the relationship by those with the power to hire and fire. He is in this regard open to somewhat more criticism because of the lingering under current from his appointment. His persona maybe somewhat subdued but success and the passage of time may well help him develop a broader confident air.

For those that want an energy and passion boost check out Steve Cotterell FGR clips!

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Oh, I do, Dave. After a defeat/on a bad run, of course.

And no, I’m not going to trawl through a zillion OTIB posts to prove it

I think if anything LJ would send Macca out to do a pre-match interview after a win the previous game.

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

The thing is though Dave, the majority of our young players are far more comfortable and natural in front of a camera. I know they have media training. 

I've had to do it with the press in Canada regarding Skiing, and yes it's weird with a mic and camera. However, you get used to it, and speak to the interviewer and ignore the camera. 

Sure, take that point - although those young players are probably under a tad les pressure!

But I’ve had similar ‘training’ too…..and I was still crap at it, still hated it! And that’s my point: if I’d ever applied for a job where being the public front was a key part then I’d have never got it. But football doesn’t seem to see that as important. 

[The Bard]

18 hours ago, petehinton said:

Ffs, downplaying a derby is right outta the SO’D book

Not a derby but still a game with an Anglo Welsh needle that anyone in post for a year would have grasped and acknowledged. 

But when you're an emotionless academic your not the average football man are you?

[The Bard]

'Like I said'  really pisses me off when I hear it.  Only seems to be a football thing.  A bit like Aussie sportpeople saying 'look' at the start of every flipping sentence

It's either not true, in other words the point is being made for the first time.  Or the person saying it is just repeating themselves and saying 'Like I said' is just further extending the futility of the repetition...

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Would they really?  It’s been the done thing since:

• LJ with Macca
• DH with Keith (Simmo rarely)
• NP with Curtis (sometimes Jase)

I don’t recall anyone suggesting any of the 3 heads were shirking responsibility.

Yup exactly. And I think we both said last year when Liam was clearly finding the pressers hard work that giving Hogg a run out may have been a good thing - and when Hogg did, he was a good change. It’s not a bad thing to let the number two do it - far from it.

[Crimson Crayola]

9 hours ago, bearded_red said:

I actually can’t believe the line about 3 or 4 fit senior players. What an absolutely staggering lie. Truly beyond belief. There was me assuming the pure gaslighting around Twine’s obvious change of position on Saturday would be the most obvious truth twisting he did this week.

I can’t physically put myself through any interview with Liam Manning as life is just too short, does he lie to this extent often?

Ultimately his dreadful interviews are totally irrelevant on his ability to do the job, but it would certainly be easier as a fan to get behind a manager that didn’t come across as a complete knob.

I've only listened to it once and probably mistook what he meant, but I was assuming he meant 3 or 4 fit senior players available (other than the starting 11) it's probably closer to the truth? But if he did infact mean out of the whole squad, than that kind of bull is indefensible (a bit like our goal at the moment)

[Natchfever]

7 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

True that.

In reality, once players get to a certain age/level, there really isn’t that much you can teach them technically. Maybe little tweaks but they should know a lot of what to do with the ball.

The skill at that point becomes seeing the game, understanding how to exploit the opposition and, crucially, psychology. You have to be able to communicate, to motivate.

I’d probably wager Liam is a fantastic technical coach, and there is nobody I’d probably rather have running an academy to instil technique and ethos. I’m just not sure he’s capable of the second paragraph.

Id still expect a coach at academy level to be able to react to the game in front of him for the sake of the players. If they cant learn game management from their coach they are up against it.

[GrahamC]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think if anything LJ would send Macca out to do a pre-match interview after a win the previous game.

It was also incredibly smart because McAllister never seemed to answer a single question put to him.

For all his faults LJ was at least entertaining, listening to Jamie Mac instead was the aural equivalent of watching paint dry.

[redkev]

20 hours ago, Malago said:

But it’s not a derby is it.

We lost 3-0 to them a few weeks back , or have we got to forget that

[Fuber]

On 26/09/2024 at 20:17, Super said:

How predictable this thread is every week.

Defending the indefensible there Super.

The man can't speak to media. At all. You've done clicked on a thread (again, I note) knowing what's it'll be about, then, yet again, mocking posters while not adding anything to the discussion besides a nonconstructive opinion.

It's a just a crap interview.

Maybe refrain before clicking into the thread and read what it says, think about what the likely posts will be, and then think "nah **** that", and watch a movie?

Unless you thought, by some miracle Manning would manage a good press conference. In which case I have some crypto with your name on it.