10 games

[Oizys]

Genuine question, those of you willing to give him 10 games...what do you expect to happen over the next two matches to give any glimmer that things will improve with this clown in charge? 

A couple of quality performances would be outliers, not a turning of the tide.

[ashton_fan]

It's not as if we're in the bottom three, we're mid table and a couple of wins we're near the play offs, early days yet

[The Original OTIB]

2 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

It's not as if we're in the bottom three, we're mid table and a couple of wins we're near the play offs, early days yet

No, a mighty 3 points above the bottom 3.

[FNQ]

1 minute ago, ashton_fan said:

It's not as if we're in the bottom three, we're mid table and a couple of wins we're near the play offs, early days yet

We could easily lose our next four matches.. Cardiff our best chance of getting a result. But even they will not be a pushover.

Boro then Stoke away followed by Leeds at home… nil points.

[formerly known as ivan]

6 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

It's not as if we're in the bottom three, we're mid table and a couple of wins we're near the play offs, early days yet

5 points from play offs, 3 points from relegation zone. Worse goal difference in the top 18.

I do admire your optimism though.

[Dr Balls]

The only team that we have played in the top 6 is Blackburn and we got stuffed.

2 home wins (one a comeback and the other far from convincing) and 2 home draws against teams outside the top 10.

The away form is more concerning. But again that’s in large part because Manning only has one way of setting up and playing. And it really doesn’t help that it’s as boring as hell a lot of the time.

 

[Silvio Dante]

I’ve said 12 games which is Leeds. Do I expect anything to really change? On all evidence? No, not really. And I’ve been clear I’d have sacked him last year, but by the same token now we have backed him, then it seems to me prudent to give a “reasonable” amount of time - aside from anything else, it removes the excuses of “time on the grass” and “his players” so he can impartially be judged and has to own it.

To me, there are a lot of concerns. But looking at the second of those, the “bit” that worries me is that if you look at “his players” then you’ve got Mayulu who won’t play for some reason, Armstrong who although having qualities has issues with finishing, Bird who has gone backwards (I think not helped by the coaches system), Twine (FFS), McNally - who seems very “unLiam” as he’s not someone who can really pass a ball and Yu - good so far but small sample. We’ve got through this season so far from the players who were here primarily. And there’s a bit that says to me if there are more of “his players” how much I trust them or his coaching.

[RollsRoyce]

What player has improved under the coaching of manning ? Equally, what player has got worse under Manning? How many youth players has Manning introduced? 

[Fuber]

33 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

It's not as if we're in the bottom three, we're mid table and a couple of wins we're near the play offs, early days yet

Below where we were this time last season.

Having played arguably weaker teams (by 7th October last season we'd played a stronger Hull, Leeds, Leicester, and West Brom).

With an injury crisis.

[Harry]

Does anyone know the cure for AIDS in the eyes? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Below where we were this time last season.

Having played arguably weaker teams (by 7th October last season we'd played a stronger Hull, Leeds, Leicester, and West Brom).

With an injury crisis.

The injury crisis was just beginning from maybe Matchday 7.

2 points worse off, GD we were +2..we're -4.,

Some of our metrics are fine but God tonight was so dull- we need 6 points from the next 2 to hit last years level, well slightly exceed- any less and we are slightly behind.

Still the worst first 8 games since 2015-16.

Edited October 2 by Mr Popodopolous

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Does anyone know the cure for AIDS in the eyes? 

Good aids or bad aids?

 

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Good aids or bad aids?

 

I was more stunned that this phrase was shouted from the family stand this evening

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Harry said:

I was more stunned that this phrase was shouted from the family stand this evening

Responding as I have no idea what emoji to attach to that mate! 

[Shauntaylor85]

17 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Below where we were this time last season.

Having played arguably weaker teams (by 7th October last season we'd played a stronger Hull, Leeds, Leicester, and West Brom).

With an injury crisis.

We played very well under nige last year before the injury crisis. I don’t care what anyone else says, Nigel was a level above Manning on every element. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

I said I'd give it 10 games to draw any firm conclusions. But considering we would need to win our next two games to just equal last seasons first block of 10 then I think it's reasonable to criticise that we haven't improved from the first 10 from last season despite spending a lot of money (by our standards) 

 

[fgrsimon]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Good aids or bad aids?

 

The genius of Chris Morris.

HMS Watford!

[One Team]

7 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’ve said 12 games which is Leeds. Do I expect anything to really change? On all evidence? No, not really. And I’ve been clear I’d have sacked him last year, but by the same token now we have backed him, then it seems to me prudent to give a “reasonable” amount of time - aside from anything else, it removes the excuses of “time on the grass” and “his players” so he can impartially be judged and has to own it.

To me, there are a lot of concerns. But looking at the second of those, the “bit” that worries me is that if you look at “his players” then you’ve got Mayulu who won’t play for some reason, Armstrong who although having qualities has issues with finishing, Bird who has gone backwards (I think not helped by the coaches system), Twine (FFS), McNally - who seems very “unLiam” as he’s not someone who can really pass a ball and Yu - good so far but small sample. We’ve got through this season so far from the players who were here primarily. And there’s a bit that says to me if there are more of “his players” how much I trust them or his coaching.

Some great comments Silvio. 

Personally I’ve said ten and to the OP we need to see some positive football and some wins.

Your 12 games is probably a better milestone; also somewhat ironically coinciding with one year since Nige’s sacking. One year and £10m later we could well find ourselves in a worse position.

[Simez]

7 hours ago, Harry said:

I was more stunned that this phrase was shouted from the family stand this evening

Chap in front of me was saying ‘that’s enough’ to the bloke that shouted that, of course he got a load of verbals back. All very odd. 

[mozo]

Lots of comments but no one has really answered the question so I'll chuck my opinion...

I think 15 points from 10 games is a good enough return, but that's not possible any more! 

So, 16 points and I'll be very happy. 

14 points and I'll be okay with it and still optimistic.

13 points is tolerable if we beat Cardiff.

12 points at least means we'd be unbeaten in 5, but otherwise disappointing.

11 points very disappointing.

10 points WTaF!

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, One Team said:

Some great comments Silvio. 

Personally I’ve said ten and to the OP we need to see some positive football and some wins.

Your 12 games is probably a better milestone; also somewhat ironically coinciding with one year since Nige’s sacking. One year and £10m later we could well find ourselves in a worse position.

15 would he a full comparison as Matchday 16 was Manning's first Matchday.

Unsure if it aligns quite to a year but it aligns to a full season if we go to 15 Games.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Lots of comments but no one has really answered the question so I'll chuck my opinion...

I think 15 points from 10 games is a good enough return, but that's not possible any more! 

So, 16 points and I'll be very happy. 

14 points and I'll be okay with it and still optimistic.

13 points is tolerable if we beat Cardiff.

12 points at least means we'd be unbeaten in 5, but otherwise disappointing.

11 points very disappointing.

10 points WTaF!

 

15 points from 10 got the last manager the sack.

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

15 points from 10 got the last manager the sack.

Whilst this is true, I don’t think it’s helpful as the games won’t be direct parallels and it’s about more than that - I’ve often said results lag performances so if you are playing well and not quite getting over the line, I’m not as binary as 16 points - Everything is awesome! and 14 points - burn the witch.

This is why, on the reverse position, I was unconvinced by our “run” at the back end of last season - we had more points than the performances merited and it felt a blip.

This year, to date, it feels to me that we’ve broadly got what we deserve. If that continues to an appropriate review point then, yes, it’s sub par - and once more that’s considering we haven’t played any of the favourites yet.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Lots of comments but no one has really answered the question so I'll chuck my opinion...

I think 15 points from 10 games is a good enough return, but that's not possible any more! 

So, 16 points and I'll be very happy. 

14 points and I'll be okay with it and still optimistic.

13 points is tolerable if we beat Cardiff.

12 points at least means we'd be unbeaten in 5, but otherwise disappointing.

11 points very disappointing.

10 points WTaF!

 

I’m working to a 1.63 points per game average. 
That will give us 75 points. Usually enough for playoffs. 
 

We are currently 8 games, 10 points. 1.25 points per game. 
 

To be on track, we’d need to be on 13 points right now. So we are 3 points behind target. 
But, I also feel the 8 games we’ve played so far are on the easier side. No easy games of course, but the current league table (where our opponents sit) would suggest we’ve had an easy ish start. 
 

So, after 10 games, I want 16/17 points. 
2 wins over Cardiff and Boro and we are back on track. 
 

Edited October 3 by Harry

[Harry]

6 hours ago, Simez said:

Chap in front of me was saying ‘that’s enough’ to the bloke that shouted that, of course he got a load of verbals back. All very odd. 

He did indeed shout “that’s enough”. 
I don’t think he got loads of verbals back. Just a brief retort. 
And then we all carried on. I’m assuming the bloke who did say “that’s enough” is the only one who does indeed know the cure for the aids eyes

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Whilst this is true, I don’t think it’s helpful as the games won’t be direct parallels and it’s about more than that - I’ve often said results lag performances so if you are playing well and not quite getting over the line, I’m not as binary as 16 points - Everything is awesome! and 14 points - burn the witch.

This is why, on the reverse position, I was unconvinced by our “run” at the back end of last season - we had more points than the performances merited and it felt a blip.

This year, to date, it feels to me that we’ve broadly got what we deserve. If that continues to an appropriate review point then, yes, it’s sub par - and once more that’s considering we haven’t played any of the favourites yet.

Underlying numbers actually point to a better points return position, GD tbh although as you say we've played no favourites yet.

Leeds and Middlesbrough have some of the best underlying numbers in this League. Not sure we'll get much there but then...Football isn't all about underlying numbers.

Burnley I get but their numbers are being exceeded by points etc.

Edited October 3 by Mr Popodopolous

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Whilst this is true, I don’t think it’s helpful as the games won’t be direct parallels and it’s about more than that - I’ve often said results lag performances so if you are playing well and not quite getting over the line, I’m not as binary as 16 points - Everything is awesome! and 14 points - burn the witch.

This is why, on the reverse position, I was unconvinced by our “run” at the back end of last season - we had more points than the performances merited and it felt a blip.

This year, to date, it feels to me that we’ve broadly got what we deserve. If that continues to an appropriate review point then, yes, it’s sub par - and once more that’s considering we haven’t played any of the favourites yet.

I agree Silvio that an assessment is definitely not as simple as taking a 10 point snapshot and looking at points only.

My scorecard approach above is based on the fact that I didn't think Manning's spell last season was that bad, so a different foundation than maybe yourself, and others.

I also think the majority of our football this season has been pretty good. But that, in my mind, has been undermined by the spells of bad. Hence we are the Championship Joe Average right now.

You've mentioned that we haven't played the big hitters, and yeah I'm not exactly buzzing with confidence for those games atm.

But we also haven't played any of the bottom 5 teams, and the two lowest placed teams we've played have been Wednesday and Cov, both of which are probably in false positions.

Sooooo.... 14 points as I said above is acceptable for me after two more games, but I appreciate that for fans with a different perspective on things will feel differently.

Those two additional games to make up your 12 game review are going to be interesting 

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m working to a 1.63 points per game average. 
That will give us 75 points. Usually enough for playoffs. 
 

We are currently 8 games, 10 points. 1.25 points per game. 
 

To be on track, we’d need to be on 13 points right now. So we are 3 points behind target. 
But, I also feel the 8 games we’ve played so far are on the easier side. No easy games of course, but the current league table (where our opponents sit) would suggest we’ve had an easy ish start. 
 

So, after 10 games, I want 16/17 points. 
2 wins over Cardiff and Boro and we are back on track. 
 

Fair enough 

My only comment regards the easy start is that based on the league table we are a mid table team that has played a load of mid table teams!

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Lots of comments but no one has really answered the question so I'll chuck my opinion...

I think 15 points from 10 games is a good enough return, but that's not possible any more! 

So, 16 points and I'll be very happy. 

14 points and I'll be okay with it and still optimistic.

13 points is tolerable if we beat Cardiff.

12 points at least means we'd be unbeaten in 5, but otherwise disappointing.

11 points very disappointing.

10 points WTaF!

 

What was the question?

42 minutes ago, mozo said:

I agree Silvio that an assessment is definitely not as simple as taking a 10 point snapshot and looking at points only.

My scorecard approach above is based on the fact that I didn't think Manning's spell last season was that bad, so a different foundation than maybe yourself, and others.

I also think the majority of our football this season has been pretty good. But that, in my mind, has been undermined by the spells of bad. Hence we are the Championship Joe Average right now.

You've mentioned that we haven't played the big hitters, and yeah I'm not exactly buzzing with confidence for those games atm.

But we also haven't played any of the bottom 5 teams, and the two lowest placed teams we've played have been Wednesday and Cov, both of which are probably in false positions.

Sooooo.... 14 points as I said above is acceptable for me after two more games, but I appreciate that for fans with a different perspective on things will feel differently.

Those two additional games to make up your 12 game review are going to be interesting 

The expectation is not to be Joe Average though!

[soultrader]

7 hours ago, One Team said:

Some great comments Silvio. 

Personally I’ve said ten and to the OP we need to see some positive football and some wins.

Your 12 games is probably a better milestone; also somewhat ironically coinciding with one year since Nige’s sacking. One year and £10m later we could well find ourselves in a worse position.

It does seem like something Bristol City would do 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

What was the question?

The expectation is not to be Joe Average though!

The OP question was:

"Genuine question, those of you willing to give him 10 games...what do you expect to happen over the next two matches to give any glimmer that things will improve with this clown in charge?"

Regards Joe Average..  no, I agree that's not the expectation, but it's fortunately not the final position of this block of 10 (referring back to OP)...yet. 

I broke it down because it seemed a clearly defined way to convey what outcomes would give me "any glimmer that things will improve with this clown in charge."

I then elaborated in my reply to Silvio. 

We've got to do better than the current ppg for sure. That's why we need a couple of wins in the next few games, starting Sunday.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, mozo said:

Genuine question, those of you willing to give him 10 games...what do you expect to happen over the next two matches to give any glimmer that things will improve with this clown in charge?

Answer:  I expect little to change in terms of approach, whether results will deem it an improvement or decline I’ve no idea.  Low scoring sport means you can play well and lose and vice versa.

 

[BobBobBobbin]

I'm not too bothered by the results, Cardiff is a must win game because it's them, but it's going to be the performances that dictate my feelings. More than that, I need to see Manning make adjustments and see the obvious in game. If he can't show that at some point then he's got to go because that's literally his main job.

[1960maaan]

I am really trying to keep my powder dry, give enough of the season for new players to bed in for the pre season on the grass to take affect and whatever else I can think of.  
If you had asked me just after Cov , even Derby ( after I'd calmed down) I would have been optimistic . 2nd half of Derby followed by Blackburn and even into Oxford and I would have done a 180. 10 games seems a decent sample size and should give us an idea of our season. 

As Harry has said it's about 1.6 / 1.7 PPG or 74 points average over the last 4 years gets you 6th.
We should be near 13 points so we are 3 below and 5 points off Blackburn in 6th currently . 

The points are one thing , if performances are ok then you can make excuses . We need a performance against Cardiff and a good run through some tough fixtures to even think we are where we are told we should be. 
If I wasn't really trying to be fair, Blackburn would have ended my early season optimism and last night ended any hopes that lingered . 
I really don't know what to expect from the next 2/3/4 games but I want to stick to my plan. 

* caveat ****
If we get stuffed by Cardiff then **** him 

[mozo]

On 03/10/2024 at 11:43, mozo said:

Lots of comments but no one has really answered the question so I'll chuck my opinion...

I think 15 points from 10 games is a good enough return, but that's not possible any more! 

So, 16 points and I'll be very happy. 

14 points and I'll be okay with it and still optimistic.

13 points is tolerable if we beat Cardiff.

12 points at least means we'd be unbeaten in 5, but otherwise disappointing.

11 points very disappointing.

10 points WTaF!

 

I remember writing the above but forgot what I'd put. I guess I'm consistent with that assessment.

Honestly, I wanted 16 points from these 10 games, and we've come close.

At the moment though, quibbling over a few points seem a bit meaningless.

On reflection, what I've enjoyed so far is our character. We've fought back from going behind in a few games, and today was all about spirit and determination.

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

48 minutes ago, mozo said:

I remember writing the above but forgot what I'd put. I guess I'm consistent with that assessment.

Honestly, I wanted 16 points from these 10 games, and we've come close.

At the moment though, quibbling over a few points seem a bit meaningless.

On reflection, what I've enjoyed so far is our character. We've fought back from going behind in a few games, and today was all about spirit and determination.

 

This block of 10 given the quality faced I wanted 15 minimum, 18 would have shown improvement given the £10m spent and would have been good.  We've had an easier start and fallen short of last year's total at this point.

That being said I did not see this result in the stars for city.

Edited Saturday at 18:18 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[ashton_fan]

In the Championship there aren't any easy games, if you play a team at the bottom that's just hit a bit of form you can't assume 3 points are a given. Sometimes a team in the top 6 on a poor run can be the easier fixture. When you look at Cardiff and Wednesday, Cardiff had just sacked their manager and the caretaker had won his first match, then they played us and today they won 5-0. Wednesday had beaten WBA who were top at the time, then played us and won away at Coventry the game after.

[Harry]

4 hours ago, mozo said:

I remember writing the above but forgot what I'd put. I guess I'm consistent with that assessment.

Honestly, I wanted 16 points from these 10 games, and we've come close.

At the moment though, quibbling over a few points seem a bit meaningless.

On reflection, what I've enjoyed so far is our character. We've fought back from going behind in a few games, and today was all about spirit and determination.

 

Yep. I’m after 1.63 points per 10 games. 
So I wanted 16 by now. 
We have 14, so are 2 points behind my target. 
Don’t concede that late penalty at Hull and we’d be on track. 
 

Onto the next 10 (which concludes after Sunderland on Dec 10th). Where I need us to be on 33/34 points. 
 

[Mr Popodopolous]

It isn't terrible but it also isn't the platform so far for a serious Play-off tilt..

It is pretty midtable basically PPG combined with varied underlying numbers. A lot can still change of course in either direction.

[footie]

51 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yep. I’m after 1.63 points per 10 games. 
So I wanted 16 by now. 
We have 14, so are 2 points behind my target. 
Don’t concede that late penalty at Hull and we’d be on track. 
 

Onto the next 10 (which concludes after Sunderland on Dec 10th). Where I need us to be on 33/34 points. 
 

Harry I’d be interested to hear your views on whether you’re still of the opinion that manning isn’t the right fit of manager to take us forward? It stuck in my mind you kindly gave us a detailed insight as to the way he liked his teams to play and how it may not suit us.

My own opinions echoed yours at the time and I would say still do, for the record 

 

[Malago]

Based on the evidence so far, I would say there’s a 95% probability we’ll be playing in the championship next season.

[johnbytheriver]

It will either rain or get dark by 12 o'clock tonight or both.CIty to finish 15th fingers crossed.Cannot see us making a play-off push.

[TV Tom]

If anyone would of said that after 10 league games we would only of lost two you would of bitten their hands off, stats can be so deceiving depending on whether your glass is half full or half empty.

Lies, damned lies and statistics as someone famous once said

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

If anyone would of said that after 10 league games we would only of lost two you would of bitten their hands off, stats can be so deceiving depending on whether your glass is half full or half empty.

Lies, damned lies and statistics as someone famous once said

As I posted the other day, you wouldn’t have bitten anyone’s hand off for 8 draws and 2 defeats would you?

I find it so weird that people look at just wins / win percentage or the other side losses / loss percentage, in a sport where 3 results are possible and the points allocation isn’t evenly distributed (since 3 pts for a win).

We’d be better off with with 5 losses if that was coupled with 5 wins.

The positive (there are others too) for me from yesterday is that we’ve now got more wins than losses, that’s a start.  Need to build on it.

Stats are very deceiving if used badly, or with poor context.

[TV Tom]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As I posted the other day, you wouldn’t have bitten anyone’s hand off for 8 draws and 2 defeats would you?

I find it so weird that people look at just wins / win percentage or the other side losses / loss percentage, in a sport where 3 results are possible and the points allocation isn’t evenly distributed (since 3 pts for a win).

We’d be better off with with 5 losses if that was coupled with 5 wins.

The positive (there are others too) for me from yesterday is that we’ve now got more wins than losses, that’s a start.  Need to build on it.

Stats are very deceiving if used badly, or with poor context.

Of course i wouldn't but that isn't what we've got, i'm dealing with facts not whether if we had 5 wins and 5 draws or whether we had 8 draws and 2 defeats. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, TV Tom said:

Of course i wouldn't but that isn't what we've got, i'm dealing with facts not whether if we had 5 wins and 5 draws or whether we had 8 draws and 2 defeats. 

so, you’d have bitten anyone’s hand off for 3w, 5d, 2l and 14 points from 10 games…yes?  Fair enough.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

so, you’d have bitten anyone’s hand off for 3w, 5d, 2l and 14 points from 10 games…yes?  Fair enough.

1.4 from the block of 10 games we've had is poor in my opinion. 

I think we needed to get some points in the bank from that block as I don't think we'll get 14 from the next block of 10. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

1.4 from the block of 10 games we've had is poor in my opinion. 

I think we needed to get some points in the bank from that block as I don't think we'll get 14 from the next block of 10. 

That is @TV Tom’s prerogative re what he deems worthy of “hand biting”.  We all have different expectations.

[BCFC31]

Sugar coat it any way you want we have been shit this season. 

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

so, you’d have bitten anyone’s hand off for 3w, 5d, 2l and 14 points from 10 games…yes?  Fair enough.

I give up

[Cole Not Gas]

BCF 31 Really? Really? Under which previous managers would you have said a 2-0 away win at Boro was 'shit'? Similarly, winning a 7 goal thriller and then beating newly promoted Oxford? Oh, i get it perhaps you just want to moan and be another negative on a forum? Fine with me but i dont usually response to that kind of negativity and with 14 teams below us after 10 games you may never accept that our 'new team' is doing ok in settling in to a new season in which there are a lot of good sides and big clubs. Fair enough.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, TV Tom said:

I give up

No, I’m saying, if that is your basis, that’s fine.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Cole Not Gas said:

BCF 31 Really? Really? Under which previous managers would you have said a 2-0 away win at Boro was 'shit'? Similarly, winning a 7 goal thriller and then beating newly promoted Oxford? Oh, i get it perhaps you just want to moan and be another negative on a forum? Fine with me but i dont usually response to that kind of negativity and with 14 teams below us after 10 games you may never accept that our 'new team' is doing ok in settling in to a new season in which there are a lot of good sides and big clubs. Fair enough.

Their argument was that overall it has so far been shit. 

You have said they are being negitive, but maybe they are just being realistic? 

You've cherry picked certain events to frame the start of the season in a different way. 

You've then tried to make an excuse about a new team settling in when the reality is we've played against other teams who also have new players so that neutralises it. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That is @TV Tom’s prerogative re what he deems worthy of “hand biting”.  We all have different expectations.

Last season we had 15 points from 10 games.

3 defeats

3 draws

4 wins

I wonder if Tom is happier with that start or this seasons start. 

[Cole Not Gas]

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Their argument was that overall it has so far been shit. 

You have said they are being negitive, but maybe they are just being realistic? 

You've cherry picked certain events to frame the start of the season in a different way. 

You've then tried to make an excuse about a new team settling in when the reality is we've played against other teams who also have new players so that neutralises it. 

WSM - very fair point about other teams; you are correct. So i guess its just a case of one person's realism is another person's negativity. I think i know where i compare to that oizys character

[mozo]

1 hour ago, BCFC31 said:

Sugar coat it any way you want we have been shit this season. 

It must be an incredibly shit league then!

29 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Last season we had 15 points from 10 games.

3 defeats

3 draws

4 wins

I wonder if Tom is happier with that start or this seasons start. 

Last season we had 1 more point but were 1 lower in the table. We were, however, closer to the top 6 on points.

Then we lost 3 out of the next 4 games...

[W-S-M Seagull]

16 minutes ago, mozo said:

It must be an incredibly shit league then!

Last season we had 1 more point but were 1 lower in the table. We were, however, closer to the top 6 on points.

Then we lost 3 out of the next 4 games...

I was supporting @Davefevs comment using last seasons opening 10 games to show how losing more games isn't necessarily worse. 

The 3 games you mention was against Leeds, Leicester and Cardiff (where we barely had 11 fit players) 

We may well lose 3 out of our next 4 games where we face Stoke, Leeds, Preston and Sheffield United. Very similar set of fixtures.

[mozo]

22 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I was supporting @Davefevs comment using last seasons opening 10 games to show how losing more games isn't necessarily worse. 

The 3 games you mention was against Leeds, Leicester and Cardiff (where we barely had 11 fit players) 

We may well lose 3 out of our next 4 games where we face Stoke, Leeds, Preston and Sheffield United. Very similar set of fixtures.

Got you. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's any value in comparing a block from this season vs a block from last season. So I'm not trying to score any points on comparison either 

The most important metric for me is to finish higher and better than last season, and we're just about on course. Anything could happen from here, and you're right, we've got a comparable sticky patch of fixtures coming up.

We've probably got a similar injury hit now vs last season, but crucially we've added some numbers to beef up the numbers or we'd be in real trouble again.

 

[Roadrunner]

I did state back in mid summer, before the fixtures came out and said if we were not in the top 10 after 10 matches then he had to go. So today we are 10th after 10 matches. So i am ok with that, and lets review at the start of the new year when i hope we are in the top 8.

Although i said i am happy with that, i would like to say that i am not happy that he will not play with 2 strikers when the game is there to be won. I am not happy that it seems that all of our promising youngests are not given a chance. Along with certain players that just warm the bench or some who dont even get that far. If he did that it would put every player under pressure to perform.

[Oizys]

2 hours ago, Cole Not Gas said:

WSM - very fair point about other teams; you are correct. So i guess its just a case of one person's realism is another person's negativity. I think i know where i compare to that oizys character

Hey, I say what I feel.  There's no agenda. I just feel how I feel. If you feel positive watching the style and quality of football we've produced over the past year then I'm delighted for you. 

I, unfortunately, don't. There are many reasons that I have made clear in that time. I won't repeat them as that would be crass given the managers situation. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I don't want to say too much given the Manning situation for which he needs all the leave he needs, but..

1.4 PPG

40% Win Ratio aka 4 wins in 10

Ir is about where we came in, after 15 Games in November 2023. 10th or 11th. Now injuries are starting to bite a bit but if they start to heal, I'd the Conversion Rate is better than the first 9 things may improve but not Top 6 level, not yet (IMO).

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fwiw I just checked.

Opta Model of Expected Points has us..

11th and on 14.09 Points. Albeit we've had some easier games on Paper.

Edited Sunday at 19:32 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

It also has us to come 12th on 60 Points in respect of Predicted based on Data etc so far.

Edited Sunday at 19:35 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsquirrel]

chris hogg and the team showed yesterday that they can pull results out of the bag. i didnt expect 1 point, let alone 3. 

if we had lost today, i think the thread might have looked a bit different or at least had people thinking differently.

10th on 14 points has to be accepted as satisfactory now so they must be allowed the next block and see where we are then

[Aipearcey]

3 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

chris hogg and the team showed yesterday that they can pull results out of the bag. i didnt expect 1 point, let alone 3. 

if we had lost today, i think the thread might have looked a bit different or at least had people thinking differently.

10th on 14 points has to be accepted as satisfactory now so they must be allowed the next block and see where we are then

Was having this conversation about this at work the other day. Say Manning has the next couple of weeks off, Hoggs get results against stoke, Leeds and Preston then he returns and the result go down hill again. Where on earth do you go from there? Given the situation I’d say you give him the rest of the season regardless of results as long as relegation is on the cards but just hope everything goes ok when he eventually returns as the last thing he will need is fans on his back after everything he’s been through.

[Malago]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fwiw I just checked.

Opta Model of Expected Points has us..

11th and on 14.09 Points. Albeit we've had some easier games on Paper.

I subscribe to the theory that we play better against the better teams, because they generally dominate possession and paradoxically we’re a better team when we have less of the ball.

[Silvio Dante]

6 hours ago, Aipearcey said:

Was having this conversation about this at work the other day. Say Manning has the next couple of weeks off, Hoggs get results against stoke, Leeds and Preston then he returns and the result go down hill again. Where on earth do you go from there? Given the situation I’d say you give him the rest of the season regardless of results as long as relegation is on the cards but just hope everything goes ok when he eventually returns as the last thing he will need is fans on his back after everything he’s been through.

Actually quite a reasonable point but probably a bit more nuanced.

If you take Saturdays game, there has to be an assumption, unless Twine got injured late in the week, that the side/setup was picked by Liam. But, and this is key, our game management went up a touch with the proactive change in shape of the subs. You’d have to put that fully down to Hogg. Is he better at that or is it just a one off?

Your point over what then happens if Hogg gets results in the next few games is totally valid. None of us know how much Liam will be feeding into planning etc over the next few weeks, and it is also the case that results will be influenced by both momentum and player availability, but if he does take (say) 10 points from 4 games in charge, face value he’s done a fantastic job and totally down to him.

Your hypothetical (and that’s all it is) is then when Liam comes back form drops off again. Once more, loads of factors involved there (form, availability etc) but I get your point. And that is that if Hogg significantly outperforms Liam, what does that do to the view of a Liam as a coach.

You’re not calling for him to be sacked, but you are making a pretty valid discussion point.

[The Original OTIB]

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Actually quite a reasonable point but probably a bit more nuanced.

If you take Saturdays game, there has to be an assumption, unless Twine got injured late in the week, that the side/setup was picked by Liam. But, and this is key, our game management went up a touch with the proactive change in shape of the subs. You’d have to put that fully down to Hogg. Is he better at that or is it just a one off?

Your point over what then happens if Hogg gets results in the next few games is totally valid. None of us know how much Liam will be feeding into planning etc over the next few weeks, and it is also the case that results will be influenced by both momentum and player availability, but if he does take (say) 10 points from 4 games in charge, face value he’s done a fantastic job and totally down to him.

Your hypothetical (and that’s all it is) is then when Liam comes back form drops off again. Once more, loads of factors involved there (form, availability etc) but I get your point. And that is that if Hogg significantly outperforms Liam, what does that do to the view of a Liam as a coach.

You’re not calling for him to be sacked, but you are making a pretty valid discussion point.

I know life goes on but I find it a bit unseemly to discuss such things at the moment. That time will come again, but not now.

[City oz]

On 20/10/2024 at 13:03, Malago said:

Based on the evidence so far, I would say there’s a 95% probability we’ll be playing in the championship next season.

A fair assumption that we will be in the championship next season. However I will not be surprised if we just sneak in at the playoffs but not get much further.

[Red Army 79]

I’d like us to aim get 17 points every block of 10 games. That would give us 78 points averaged out over 46 games which would have put us in 5th position at the end of last season.

14 points is a satisfactory start if carried on throughout the season would give us 64 points which we would have finished level with 9th & 2 points above our points tally last season.