Negativity

[TV Tom]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

I can't stop thinking back to the Hull game. We dominated and were a few minutes away from winning when Williams goes mad. 

If that hadn't happened, I'd be relatively happy with 12 points, only 3 points adrift of top 6. 

I don't think anyone anticipated us losing 3-0 twice though and that, understandably, was difficult for fans to accept. 

Those 3-0 defeats were very poor and worrying other than that i think we've been fairly decent for the other 6 games and deserved more than we got, we've lost two games which is the same as top of the league Sunderland, oh for the luxury of having a couple of young starlets like Scott and Semenyo who could provide you with that little bit of magic to win you games !!! 

[Mikjizzle]

4 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

But that's only a third of the requirements I mentioned, tippy tappy football is lovely but you need to create chances with it, only 2 attempts on goal in 90 mins?? That's not going to win you many games especially considering the profiligate nature of our attacking players.

Pearson set us up to play on the counter which is a wholly different style to Manning's total football, and he did so as he indicated he did not have the players to do keep possession long enough, the only change now is that we keep possession longer at times but do eff all with it.

Manning seems incapable of adapting to styles that might suit our players and the teams we are playing against. Last night we took so long to move the ball forward at times it allowed Wed to get their team back into their tight defensive shape and to be able to restrict our threats, Yu was mostly doubled up on, Armstrong muscled out by Barnard. There was no attempt to change that. That inability to change is either that he's not a good match day manager as he can't see the issues, or he's too arrogant about his style that he refuses to adapt.

I thought they were very organised and we were trying to shift them across the pitch & out of shape by moving the ball side ways because we couldn't see a way through. We probably could have done with Bird on earlier to get the ball forward faster and into Twine's feet. We have created a lot of chances in other games recently. But Sheff W are the most organised team I've seen us play so far this season and I think they grew in confidence by not slipping up in the first half.  

[Mikjizzle]

4 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Why? You clearly have a lot to contribute. If you disappear as quickly as you appeared, people may well think you're part of a certain organisation.

I'm not going to lose any sleep if people on the forum think I work for Bristol Sport - would be more interesting work than what I actually do. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

But that's only a third of the requirements I mentioned, tippy tappy football is lovely but you need to create chances with it, only 2 attempts on goal in 90 mins?? That's not going to win you many games especially considering the profiligate nature of our attacking players.

Pearson set us up to play on the counter which is a wholly different style to Manning's total football, and he did so as he indicated he did not have the players to do keep possession long enough, the only change now is that we keep possession longer at times but do eff all with it.

Manning seems incapable of adapting to styles that might suit our players and the teams we are playing against. Last night we took so long to move the ball forward at times it allowed Wed to get their team back into their tight defensive shape and to be able to restrict our threats, Yu was mostly doubled up on, Armstrong muscled out by Barnard. There was no attempt to change that. That inability to change is either that he's not a good match day manager as he can't see the issues, or he's too arrogant about his style that he refuses to adapt.

To be fair our numbers are in some ways better than our results.

2 Non Penalty Goals from 64 Shots however.. is the reality from Derby Away to now. Obviously 1 Goal, 1 Shot Penalty v Oxford.

[Superjack]

8 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Pearson set us up to play on the counter which is a wholly different style to Manning's total football, and he did so as he indicated he did not have the players to do keep possession long enough.

How easily people forget this. 

I find the quick counter attacking style really exciting as long as you accept that the opposition will have the lion's share of the ball. 

Much more exciting than having loads of possession and (as you say) doing eff all with it.

2 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

I'm not going to lose any sleep if people on the forum think I work for Bristol Sport - would be more interesting work than what I actually do. 

I bet it wouldn't.

[cotswoldred2]

2 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

It’s odd how every now and again someone comes along and posts their first post and it’s an epic essay on why we should get behind the team.

I’m not saying the poster is right or wrong but I just find it odd, why not make a few short comments over the time you’ve been lurking? If it was a one off I wouldn’t smell a rat but this happens quite often and then we never hear from them again.

 

Obviously some BS employee eh? 

Or someone that actually looks beyond being negative about everything apart from Nige, which is beyond  weird, considering the cut of his jib.

When I see some hoping for a dodgy new owner to replace SL and wanting to hound out the current manager, you have to ask yourself perhaps these infuriating differing posts might carry a modicum of truth?

Nah...

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Obviously some BS employee eh? 

Or someone that actually looks beyond being negative about everything apart from Nige, which is beyond  weird, considering the cut of his jib.

When I see some hoping for a dodgy new owner to replace SL and wanting to hound out the current manager, you have to ask yourself perhaps these infuriating differing posts might carry a modicum of truth?

Nah...

Nah.

[Superjack]

The irony of people criticising the 'negativity' on here when we support a club with the most negative ownership in the country.

[NDW4CITY]

3 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

The “Pearson was the special one” brigade won’t thank you for your post but I suspect a majority agree!

My concern is the rigidity of LM’s thinking, previous interviews have shown he doesn’t appreciate challenge and I fear he may be so wedded to “this is how my team plays” that he won’t consider anything more than in game tinkering, which I fear makes us more easy to set up against.

We seem to be dependent on a moment of magic to open up a game - can this squad deliver it often enough? Personally I’m not sure and arguably two of our most creative players are also struggling (Anis and Twine). I presume Earthy was recruited before the Twine deal happened so is now (already) surplus. That’s a shame because he looks comfortable on the ball from the little we have seen.

I think Bird is better than Williams, who has flattered to make a scoring impact for too long - again is LM wedded to his favourite 11 - time will tell but I agree it wI’ll likely be more entertaining than a Pearson side!

 

For me it’s not about pining for Pearson, although I think he did a really solid job in difficult circumstances.

It all comes back to the top - I just don’t trust our “leaders” to make the right decisions any more and I fear they have made a poor decision with LM. Yes, he is a young , modern (whatever that means) manager, just not a very good one in comparison with many of his peers at this level.

Given the backing that he received, have we really progressed in the last 12 months?  Some stats have improved, but goals conceded is abysmal and goals scored is distinctly average. We appear to be softer than under Pearson. In most of his games, even if not playing well, you could never question work rate and desire. Could anyone say we showed desire to win last night’s game with that second half performance. As others have said, LMs in-game management and reaction to opposition tactical changes is not good. Clockwork, by-the-book and straight from the coaching manual. 
At the start of the season, the consensus was the fixture computer had been kind to us. 10 from 8 is not what I was expecting I must admit. After the Cardiff game (which will not be easy) we may well get a reality check. Some seem to think this will be another season of mid-table mediocrity. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up even further down the table.
 

[Garland-sweden]

Possesion is ok but we If dont put the ball in the box and create chances, its nothing worth. Maybe we are on the right track, time will tell. Not so optimistic.

[mozo]

14 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

But that's only a third of the requirements I mentioned, tippy tappy football is lovely but you need to create chances with it, only 2 attempts on goal in 90 mins?? That's not going to win you many games...

 

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

To be fair our numbers are in some ways better than our results.

2 Non Penalty Goals from 64 Shots however.. is the reality from Derby Away to now. Obviously 1 Goal, 1 Shot Penalty v Oxford.

Maybe one of our stats wizards can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've had a better match xG than all of our opponents this season, besides Derby?

I think we're also doing well on the touches in the opposition box and shots metrics.

But... we ain't scoring enough goals!

I don't agree with the 'we just pass it round the back' myth though.

[RedHienz]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The empty seats, the pretty flat atmosphere although the Safe Standing area did try at times, and the booing at the end is hardly a ringing endorsement, is it!

Remind me when in the last 5 seasons this hasn't happened at least once. 

 

[glynriley]

3 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Unfortunately these kinds of comments dismissing valid objections to Nige’s replacing undermine all the nuanced discussion re LM’s tenure and the team’s performances this season. Yes some people like to reduce everything down to a Nige Love in but that serves no purpose in going forward if one is unable to see the wider issue with this club. 

It seems to be the posters who were happy to see the back of Nige, or keen to be seen to be supporting the Lansdowns, who are bringing him up in conversations first these days. Obviously they were all happy to hang their hat on Liam, but now he's proving to be a worse option they seem keen to drag the conversation back to NP.

[ralphindevon]

10 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Obviously some BS employee eh? 

Or someone that actually looks beyond being negative about everything apart from Nige, which is beyond  weird, considering the cut of his jib.

When I see some hoping for a dodgy new owner to replace SL and wanting to hound out the current manager, you have to ask yourself perhaps these infuriating differing posts might carry a modicum of truth?

Nah...

I said I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the post, didn’t mention Bristol Sport.

I genuinely wanted to know why we get these one time posters making very similar long posts. Is it regular posters setting up a new account? Is it family of the players or management? Is it Brian or Jon!

Or is it just coincidence and there are posters who read this forum for years without contributing, then all of sudden post very long detailed posts which are similar to the last person that did it? 

I genuinely don’t know! 

[RedHienz]

3 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

It’s odd how every now and again someone comes along and posts their first post and it’s an epic essay on why we should get behind the team.

I’m not saying the poster is right or wrong but I just find it odd, why not make a few short comments over the time you’ve been lurking? If it was a one off I wouldn’t smell a rat but this happens quite often and then we never hear from them again.

 

Must be a Bristol Sport grad / JL / SL / BT or the City Cat. Delete as needed. 

It's weird calling out posters, especially someone making a first post and engaging . Its genuinely no better then the morans on the gas site typng s#ithead anytime someone veers of the company line.

It's not all a conspiracy.

Put the foil hat back on and relax.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

14 minutes ago, Garland-sweden said:

Possesion is ok but we If dont put the ball in the box and create chances, its nothing worth. Maybe we are on the right track, time will tell. Not so optimistic.

It is not just getting the ball into the box, we also need bodies in there.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

Just now, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

It is not just getting the ball into the box, we also need bodies in there.

The number of times Yu crossed and there was one, sometimes two players in the box compared to the four or five defenders.

[Mikjizzle]

3 minutes ago, RedHienz said:

Must be a Bristol Sport grad / JL / SL / BT or the City Cat. Delete as needed. 

It's weird calling out posters, especially someone making a first post and engaging . Its genuinely no better then the morans on the gas site typng s#ithead anytime someone veers of the company line.

It's not all a conspiracy.

Put the foil hat back on and relax.

 

doesn't exactly entice me to post again haha 

[Mr Popodopolous]

39 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Maybe one of our stats wizards can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've had a better match xG than all of our opponents this season, besides Derby?

I think we're also doing well on the touches in the opposition box and shots metrics.

But... we ain't scoring enough goals!

I don't agree with the 'we just pass it round the back' myth though.

In respect of xG- we definitely aren't scoring enough goals firstly. Laat night was quite dull IMO, felt like a bit too much passing around.

Well the site I use..and my understanding of XG so needs to be factored in..

*0.3 or above for a win ie 0.9 v 0.6.

*A converted Penalty is worth 0.8.

Draw your own conclusions.

Adjusted for non Penalties we could have 12-14 Points.

With Penalties 13.

10.9 Goals For without, 11.7 with.

8.4 Goals Against without, 10 with.

Edited October 3 by Mr Popodopolous

[CityCiderEd]

I think we've created decent enough chances to have garnered more points than we've ended up with. 

The problem is our final pass.....it's usually so poor it becomes easy to clear. We've got to the byline and still fail to pick out our forwards (if anyone has made it into the 6 yard box) on numerous occasions. Our passing in general needs a helluva lot of work to reach anywhere near the level required for a play off push.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I can't stop thinking back to the Hull game. We dominated and were a few minutes away from winning when Williams goes mad. 

If that hadn't happened, I'd be relatively happy with 12 points, only 3 points adrift of top 6. 

I don't think anyone anticipated us losing 3-0 twice though and that, understandably, was difficult for fans to accept. 

We did dominate for large parts of the opening 60-65 mins, but the game got stretched and more even as it went on.  No surprise, first game.  We were a few minutes more than your few minutes from a 0-0 in many respects.

How come the “what ifs” are always “had we won this” or “not conceded that”?  Never the other way around?

We could just as easily be sat here with less points than we have.

 

[Davefevs]

56 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Maybe one of our stats wizards can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've had a better match xG than all of our opponents this season, besides Derby?

I think we're also doing well on the touches in the opposition box and shots metrics.

But... we ain't scoring enough goals!

I don't agree with the 'we just pass it round the back' myth though.

Wyscout has Hull as well as Derby.  I see Mr P has given you FBRef (assume it is).

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

4 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Liam?

Hilarious and not at all predictable.

[Capman]

Interesting and thought provoking post, good to see a different perspective. For what it’s worth my view is not really negative towards Manning, it’s about the wider club. 
My view is that Pearson inherited a mess, a club in free fall with no cash to spend and a real danger of falling into a financial fair play trap which would have been a nightmare. He didn’t do what others might have done and sought to ‘loan’ us through the mess, he blooded new talent and grow the confidence and skill of the squad. Broadly speaking he succeeded and, in doing so, gave opportunities and grew talent which not only kept us safe but also created assets to sell and the ability to spend money. 
He was rewarded for that with the sack for what appears to pretty much everyone to be personal reasons. 
Now football is that kind of industry, there is no point in being sentimental, but having acted and said it was for football reasons the board need to deliver with the legacy Pearson (and Gould whose contribution should also be respected) gave the club. The club have spent money which could have been given to Pearson and having done that the fan base have a legitimate right to expect a real improvement. My expectation is play off football as a minimum. Anything less will mean the board’s gamble failed and they should take responsibility for that failure. 
I also struggle a bit with the endless focus on ‘coaching’ and the difference in approach. This is about the standard of people at every level at the club. I just think that at every level the hierarchy of the club comes across as ‘lightweight’. We appear to be unwilling to employ anyone who challenges the ‘club establishment’ so end up in a constant loop where experience is dispensed with when it challenges the status quo and is replaced by inexperience which is not up to the job. 

[Ska Junkie]

6 minutes ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

Hilarious and not at all predictable.

Another one with a sense if humour bypass? Miserable buggers!

[RedRock]

36 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

I think we've created decent enough chances to have garnered more points than we've ended up with. 

The problem is our final pass.....it's usually so poor it becomes easy to clear. We've got to the byline and still fail to pick out our forwards (if anyone has made it into the 6 yard box) on numerous occasions. Our passing in general needs a helluva lot of work to reach anywhere near the level required for a play off push.

Our passing is poor because 1) there is a lack of our players in the box and 2) a total lack of connectivity between the player passing the ball and any potential receivers, no anticipation of clever runs into space, mainly because there aren’t any. 

In terms of our progress in what is a key area of effective team play, I see an almost complete absence of player partnerships. That is basic ‘on the grass’ stuff.  Our performance on this critical indicator is currently nothing short of abysmal. 

[Shauntaylor85]

5 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

Long time lurker but I've been compelled to finally post. I'm sure similar posts have been done before so apologies if going over old ground. 

Anyway I've been astonished by the negativity on here by the majority of posters.

Firstly,  I liked Pearson and thought he built some really good foundations and I was annoyed when he got sacked. I also think the communication from the club around it all was poor. But after talking to someone I know who works in first team football (at championship level), I was reassured that a more forward thinking manager made sense to keep up with the direction football is heading. This person had also worked with Pearson and liked him but he told me he thought Pearson had taken as far as he could and thinks City need a technical coach to push us on to the next level and overachieve against teams with a higher wage bill. 

I can't understand what the hatred is for Manning and the way we play. As much as I liked Pearson, the football was generally terrible and we lumped it around most of the time - occasionally we played entertaining counter attacking football but we were unbelievably inconsistent. I think the players did care and they battled, which resonated with everyone (although I think the same is true of players under Manning but he is perhaps asking them to be more conservative/efficient at times with their energy). I'm not convinced Pearson was the man to push us on to the next level as much as what he did at the club was important. 

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. I've never seen a Bristol City team dominate teams on the ball in the Championship like we do under Manning this season & we create more clear chances this season then we have for years. I appreciate that some people think it's boring but you can't argue that playing that way doesn't work at Championship level. Nearly all of the teams that have success in football at the moment tend to dominate possession in general and/or play a high press. So, I don't understand why people are against this trend or can't see that we have improved in these areas. 

I've seen a lot of comments about people wanting 90 minutes performances but that's not realistic under any manager for Bristol City in a competitive league. A 90 minute performance to me will likely include periods of the game where you are under pressure - it's about withstanding that pressure and turning the momentum back into your favour. I've also recently seen comments about our squad being too big, which doesn't make sense to me - we have seen how injuries have impacted us in the last few seasons and for the first time we probably have enough depth to deal with it. 

It feels like people cannot see past some of the comments that were made after Pearson got sacked but those aren't Manning's fault. There also seems to be a weird hangover from Lee Johnson with people thinking any other young technical type coach is exactly the same as LJ and can't be successful just because they use coaching language in interviews and haven't got vast amounts of experience in management - but loads of young coaches with similar experience to Manning are hugely successful. It also genuinely feels like people want Manning to fail because of these factors. 

Not sure what the purpose of my post is other than to get it off my chest and to encourage people to consider how much we have developed this season in terms of possession, chances created and patterns of play. I think we are still trying to find a balance between attack and defence.  

Ultimately, it's a results business and we need better results, which I hope will come if we keep doing what we are doing - and I think the signs are encouraging, apart from a couple of matches, where we were punished. But it's still early in the season and I think worth noting that I still wouldn't say we have a top 6 squad (regardless of some flippant comments from Tinnion). So, I don't understand where the negativity comes from or why there is a lack of acknowledgement for how much the team has developed, even if you are annoyed about the results, the club and the way Pearson was treated.

I'm desperate for City to have a good season and compete for promotion and I'm fed up of mid table mediocrity. I think based on current trends in football and the way we are looking to develop Manning gives us a reasonable chance of that. And if not Manning then someone else similar on paper. Carlos Corberan is a similar obsessive, technical coach and he's overachieving with West Brom- same can be said for McKenna last season, so it can be done. 

I'm aware that this post may be met with me being accused of being some sort of Bristol Sport bot/employee but so be it. 

Dominate teams? If only passing stats would win league titles. The lack of quality in final third is poor. We were told this year was going to be addressing lack of goals. On the evidence so far I think we look toothless, even compared to last season. Someone else needs a run in the team, maybe it’s Mayulu now Yu is fit but the decisions yesterday were baffling. Especially when he said how tired the players were yet he left high energy ok the bench and made just 3 subs. It was crying out for Earthy. Even the pace of McCrorie, I am not convinced by him or Tanner as an attacking threat mind. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

57 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Dominate teams? If only passing stats would win league titles. The lack of quality in final third is poor. We were told this year was going to be addressing lack of goals. On the evidence so far I think we look toothless, even compared to last season. Someone else needs a run in the team, maybe it’s Mayulu now Yu is fit but the decisions yesterday were baffling. Especially when he said how tired the players were yet he left high energy ok the bench and made just 3 subs. It was crying out for Earthy. Even the pace of McCrorie, I am not convinced by him or Tanner as an attacking threat mind. 

Our numbers are top 10ish to Upper midtable.  Top 6...nah.

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

We did dominate for large parts of the opening 60-65 mins, but the game got stretched and more even as it went on.  No surprise, first game.  We were a few minutes more than your few minutes from a 0-0 in many respects.

How come the “what ifs” are always “had we won this” or “not conceded that”?  Never the other way around?

We could just as easily be sat here with less points than we have.

 

True, of course we could have less points and equally we could have more points but we are where we are, watching with the naked eye on balance of play we would more likely of won those games than lost those games, you'll have to excuse my ignorance but i've no idea how those XG and XGA stats work 

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Another one with a sense if humour bypass? Miserable buggers!

Sorry mate, your joke was only funny the first thousand times it was used on here.

[bexhill reds]

2 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

I thought they were very organised and we were trying to shift them across the pitch & out of shape by moving the ball side ways because we couldn't see a way through. We probably could have done with Bird on earlier to get the ball forward faster and into Twine's feet. We have created a lot of chances in other games recently. But Sheff W are the most organised team I've seen us play so far this season and I think they grew in confidence by not slipping up in the first half.  

We probably could have got the ball forward quickly to mix it up a bit but didn't, so what does that tell you? We allowed them to get organised because we are far too predictable and been found out, with Manning being incapable of changing up and doing something different, that's either arrogance or naivety.

Pretty much every team this year has found us out, if not at the start of the game then during, this is why we'll have fits and starts with a good 20 mins here and there, as much as I don't want it to happen I honestly think someone of quality will get their act together and give us absolute hiding.

I know that various people have quoted stats about our xG and chances created, if we extrapolate our points per game currently over 46 games then we end up on 57 points, 50 got you relegated last year, and to add to that we've not played any of the relegated teams or many other teams that were top 6 last season.

Unless something changes to affect our form then we could be very much looking at the wrong end of the table again.

 

Edited October 3 by bexhill reds

[johnbytheriver]

Negativity ? Lansdown has only been in charge for 20 years,and its 44 years since we were in the top flight.Be patient these things take time!

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Dominate teams? If only passing stats would win league titles. The lack of quality in final third is poor. We were told this year was going to be addressing lack of goals. On the evidence so far I think we look toothless, even compared to last season. Someone else needs a run in the team, maybe it’s Mayulu now Yu is fit but the decisions yesterday were baffling. Especially when he said how tired the players were yet he left high energy ok the bench and made just 3 subs. It was crying out for Earthy. Even the pace of McCrorie, I am not convinced by him or Tanner as an attacking threat mind. 

I think the stats show that we are very different (better) this season regards creating chances. We're just not putting them away.

We've also regressed defensively. That may be partly because we've got two right footed centre backs who aren't very good on the ball, and we're so much better with a Dickie/Atkinson type in there.

Either way, you and I agree that Manning has the responsibility to make the situation work.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

You're right, we have some right numpties on here

Good that you at least have avoided posting childish comments. Much for the rest of us to learn. 

Edited October 3 by The Swan and Cemetery

[tin]

7 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

Long time lurker but I've been compelled to finally post. I'm sure similar posts have been done before so apologies if going over old ground. 

Anyway I've been astonished by the negativity on here by the majority of posters.

Firstly,  I liked Pearson and thought he built some really good foundations and I was annoyed when he got sacked. I also think the communication from the club around it all was poor. But after talking to someone I know who works in first team football (at championship level), I was reassured that a more forward thinking manager made sense to keep up with the direction football is heading. This person had also worked with Pearson and liked him but he told me he thought Pearson had taken as far as he could and thinks City need a technical coach to push us on to the next level and overachieve against teams with a higher wage bill. 

I can't understand what the hatred is for Manning and the way we play. As much as I liked Pearson, the football was generally terrible and we lumped it around most of the time - occasionally we played entertaining counter attacking football but we were unbelievably inconsistent. I think the players did care and they battled, which resonated with everyone (although I think the same is true of players under Manning but he is perhaps asking them to be more conservative/efficient at times with their energy). I'm not convinced Pearson was the man to push us on to the next level as much as what he did at the club was important. 

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. I've never seen a Bristol City team dominate teams on the ball in the Championship like we do under Manning this season & we create more clear chances this season then we have for years. I appreciate that some people think it's boring but you can't argue that playing that way doesn't work at Championship level. Nearly all of the teams that have success in football at the moment tend to dominate possession in general and/or play a high press. So, I don't understand why people are against this trend or can't see that we have improved in these areas. 

I've seen a lot of comments about people wanting 90 minutes performances but that's not realistic under any manager for Bristol City in a competitive league. A 90 minute performance to me will likely include periods of the game where you are under pressure - it's about withstanding that pressure and turning the momentum back into your favour. I've also recently seen comments about our squad being too big, which doesn't make sense to me - we have seen how injuries have impacted us in the last few seasons and for the first time we probably have enough depth to deal with it. 

It feels like people cannot see past some of the comments that were made after Pearson got sacked but those aren't Manning's fault. There also seems to be a weird hangover from Lee Johnson with people thinking any other young technical type coach is exactly the same as LJ and can't be successful just because they use coaching language in interviews and haven't got vast amounts of experience in management - but loads of young coaches with similar experience to Manning are hugely successful. It also genuinely feels like people want Manning to fail because of these factors. 

Not sure what the purpose of my post is other than to get it off my chest and to encourage people to consider how much we have developed this season in terms of possession, chances created and patterns of play. I think we are still trying to find a balance between attack and defence.  

Ultimately, it's a results business and we need better results, which I hope will come if we keep doing what we are doing - and I think the signs are encouraging, apart from a couple of matches, where we were punished. But it's still early in the season and I think worth noting that I still wouldn't say we have a top 6 squad (regardless of some flippant comments from Tinnion). So, I don't understand where the negativity comes from or why there is a lack of acknowledgement for how much the team has developed, even if you are annoyed about the results, the club and the way Pearson was treated.

I'm desperate for City to have a good season and compete for promotion and I'm fed up of mid table mediocrity. I think based on current trends in football and the way we are looking to develop Manning gives us a reasonable chance of that. And if not Manning then someone else similar on paper. Carlos Corberan is a similar obsessive, technical coach and he's overachieving with West Brom- same can be said for McKenna last season, so it can be done. 

I'm aware that this post may be met with me being accused of being some sort of Bristol Sport bot/employee but so be it. 

To compare Coberan to Manning is laughable, quite frankly. Coberan is a Bielsa disciple, as is Guardiola. He’s got to a play-off final in the second tier and he’s managed one of the biggest clubs in Greece. Manning’s achieved nothing of that sort. Coberan’s about the closest thing you can get to a sure bet in this division IMO.

[Superjack]

53 minutes ago, johnbytheriver said:

Negativity ? Lansdown has only been in charge for 20 years,and its 44 years since we were in the top flight.Be patient these things take time!

Not if you're Bournemouth. Or Ipswich. Or ****ing Swindon.

But yeah....

Apologies if I have missed sarcasm.

Edited October 3 by Superjack

[Numero Uno]

Who booed these lads off last night? Was it group of OTIB posters, not representing the REAL fanbase, who all got together in a huddle or were people, the wider support base, just pissed off at sacrificing their evening for a second half of football that was as low q as you will EVER find at our level?

When I pissed off there were plenty in the concourse who were obviously fed up. It was about the fourteenth time we gifted them possession by not being able to execute a ten to twenty yard pass that did it for me.

[REDOXO]

7 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

Long time lurker but I've been compelled to finally post. I'm sure similar posts have been done before so apologies if going over old ground. 

Anyway I've been astonished by the negativity on here by the majority of posters.

Firstly,  I liked Pearson and thought he built some really good foundations and I was annoyed when he got sacked. I also think the communication from the club around it all was poor. But after talking to someone I know who works in first team football (at championship level), I was reassured that a more forward thinking manager made sense to keep up with the direction football is heading. This person had also worked with Pearson and liked him but he told me he thought Pearson had taken as far as he could and thinks City need a technical coach to push us on to the next level and overachieve against teams with a higher wage bill. 

I can't understand what the hatred is for Manning and the way we play. As much as I liked Pearson, the football was generally terrible and we lumped it around most of the time - occasionally we played entertaining counter attacking football but we were unbelievably inconsistent. I think the players did care and they battled, which resonated with everyone (although I think the same is true of players under Manning but he is perhaps asking them to be more conservative/efficient at times with their energy). I'm not convinced Pearson was the man to push us on to the next level as much as what he did at the club was important. 

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. I've never seen a Bristol City team dominate teams on the ball in the Championship like we do under Manning this season & we create more clear chances this season then we have for years. I appreciate that some people think it's boring but you can't argue that playing that way doesn't work at Championship level. Nearly all of the teams that have success in football at the moment tend to dominate possession in general and/or play a high press. So, I don't understand why people are against this trend or can't see that we have improved in these areas. 

I've seen a lot of comments about people wanting 90 minutes performances but that's not realistic under any manager for Bristol City in a competitive league. A 90 minute performance to me will likely include periods of the game where you are under pressure - it's about withstanding that pressure and turning the momentum back into your favour. I've also recently seen comments about our squad being too big, which doesn't make sense to me - we have seen how injuries have impacted us in the last few seasons and for the first time we probably have enough depth to deal with it. 

It feels like people cannot see past some of the comments that were made after Pearson got sacked but those aren't Manning's fault. There also seems to be a weird hangover from Lee Johnson with people thinking any other young technical type coach is exactly the same as LJ and can't be successful just because they use coaching language in interviews and haven't got vast amounts of experience in management - but loads of young coaches with similar experience to Manning are hugely successful. It also genuinely feels like people want Manning to fail because of these factors. 

Not sure what the purpose of my post is other than to get it off my chest and to encourage people to consider how much we have developed this season in terms of possession, chances created and patterns of play. I think we are still trying to find a balance between attack and defence.  

Ultimately, it's a results business and we need better results, which I hope will come if we keep doing what we are doing - and I think the signs are encouraging, apart from a couple of matches, where we were punished. But it's still early in the season and I think worth noting that I still wouldn't say we have a top 6 squad (regardless of some flippant comments from Tinnion). So, I don't understand where the negativity comes from or why there is a lack of acknowledgement for how much the team has developed, even if you are annoyed about the results, the club and the way Pearson was treated.

I'm desperate for City to have a good season and compete for promotion and I'm fed up of mid table mediocrity. I think based on current trends in football and the way we are looking to develop Manning gives us a reasonable chance of that. And if not Manning then someone else similar on paper. Carlos Corberan is a similar obsessive, technical coach and he's overachieving with West Brom- same can be said for McKenna last season, so it can be done. 

I'm aware that this post may be met with me being accused of being some sort of Bristol Sport bot/employee but so be it. 

Your mate knows Mr Pearson and thinks he couldn’t take the club on further? Really so he’s replaced with a bloke who had half a season as head coach at Oxford  

Domination of the ball needs tolead to goals and wins? We get dominated by teams who are out of possession. They let us play and hit us hard when they can. Wednesday were awful but still could have won easily  

People want Mr Manning to fail? That is simply not true and is reeled out constantly as some kind of criticism protection one liner. 
 

Last season we had a squad that went to Cardiff with seven U17/19/21s. After that game were statements not made regarding where Mr Tinnion and Mr Lansdown thought we should be? Mr Manning has been backed. Its his baby now. 
 

Mr Manning gives us a decent chance of developing? Maybe who knows it’s just an opinion but he got booed and he threw his players under the bus while criticizing supporters, so I’m not sure about the development strategy at the moment  

with eight posts or so and having signed up in August yes that is what some are going to think. However your support of Mr Manning is noted and everyone hopes you are right! Regardless of what you (or Bristol Sport regardless of your employment status) may think about a lot of supporters thoughts we want success and most don’t care about much else 

If you can let Mr Manning know that it would be great! 

 

[JP Hampton]

4 hours ago, TV Tom said:

You're right, we have some right numpties on here

 

5 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

 

These childish comments are exactly the problem that the OP is referring to. A first time poster has put up his opinion which is different to other peoples on here (which should be absolutely fine on a forum that encourages debate) yet because the only acceptable opinion on here is Pearson is the lord and saviour he gets dismissed without even trying to debate it. Strange behaviour imo

But tbf  everyone else as far as I can see, has actually debated the points made and so is absolutely fine on this forum. 

[Red Skin]

Great first post @Mikjizzle.  100% agree.

I've largely stopped coming on here in the last few months precisely because of the negativity. 

I can't say I enjoy the games much either.  Not because of the football, but because of the negativity, moaning and general sniping that I have to put up with from some very vocal fans around me.  Not all fans around me, they just seem to be the loudest.

I can't see it ending unless LM gets us to top 6 this season or he is sacked/leaves.  Sadly, he's been set up to fail.

If I didn't have to take my disabled son to the game - football is his whole life - then I'd probably stop going whilst this is going on.  And I've put up with some shite in the last 35 years watching City.   

[TV Tom]

11 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Great first post @Mikjizzle.  100% agree.

I've largely stopped coming on here in the last few months precisely because of the negativity. 

I can't say I enjoy the games much either.  Not because of the football, but because of the negativity, moaning and general sniping that I have to put up with from some very vocal fans around me.  Not all fans around me, they just seem to be the loudest.

I can't see it ending unless LM gets us to top 6 this season or he is sacked/leaves.  Sadly, he's been set up to fail.

If I didn't have to take my disabled son to the game - football is his whole life - then I'd probably stop going whilst this is going on.  And I've put up with some shite in the last 35 years watching City.   

I know exactly where you are coming from, some of it is really quite depressing

[redsquirrel]

30 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Your mate knows Mr Pearson and thinks he couldn’t take the club on further? Really so he’s replaced with a bloke who had half a season as head coach at Oxford  

Domination of the ball needs tolead to goals and wins? We get dominated by teams who are out of possession. They let us play and hit us hard when they can. Wednesday were awful but still could have won easily  

People want Mr Manning to fail? That is simply not true and is reeled out constantly as some kind of criticism protection one liner. 
 

Last season we had a squad that went to Cardiff with seven U17/19/21s. After that game were statements not made regarding where Mr Tinnion and Mr Lansdown thought we should be? Mr Manning has been backed. Its his baby now. 
 

Mr Manning gives us a decent chance of developing? Maybe who knows it’s just an opinion but he got booed and he threw his players under the bus while criticizing supporters, so I’m not sure about the development strategy at the moment  

with eight posts or so and having signed up in August yes that is what some are going to think. However your support of Mr Manning is noted and everyone hopes you are right! Regardless of what you (or Bristol Sport regardless of your employment status) may think about a lot of supporters thoughts we want success and most don’t care about much else 

If you can let Mr Manning know that it would be great! 

 

just to add balance RedOxo, your mate also knows Mr Pearson and he does think he could have taken the club on further 

Edited October 3 by redsquirrel

[ProfitInMyPocket]

A lot of Nige's football was crap and I'm a big supporter of his time here and what he helped to rebuild after a shambles by the hierarchy.

A lot of the football was limited, definitely wasn't super, flowing football.

One thing I couldn't question was the teams character and willingness to run themselves into the ground for our club. 

The new head coach was meant to build on that, not rip it up and become some super sanitised AI team sent out to follow patterns of play that had been put through a computer simulator.

Manning been given the keys to the Kingdom (not LJ levels yet) and I really struggle to get behind the guy. 

He's lucky he's got a group of lads who don't pack it in like we've had in the past or otherwise he'd be toast.

Also, I'd rather have a few young lads on the periphery and in the squad and be midtable instead of a bloated squad of 25ish first team players who barely get rotated and be no better off. We might be worse off if it continues and doesn't improve. 

Won't change until Mr Lansdown sells up and f's off.

[bcfcredandwhite]

My opinion for what it’s worth….

Last night was boring. 
We are too often toothless in front of goal. 

Both statements are true. 
But - if you want fantastic end to end attacking football, tearing sides apart, with every player showing off world class skills and expect to see it at BS3 then you’re deluded. You might as well go and support one of the plastic premiership teams. 

The only way we will see that kind of dominant play here is by us dropping down to league 1 and getting someone like Cotts to get us to smash the ‘minnows’ again on our way back up - a big fish in a small sea. Right now in this league we are a bang average side in an a larger sea - with bigger fishes in it.

We are a mid table Championship club. Let’s not get angry when we play like one and get the results of one. 
That doesn’t mean I don’t WANT us to win every game and play well - of course I do - It’s just that I don’t EXPECT it.

One day it might ‘click’ and we might mount a serious challenge but to me that would be a wonderful bonus not an expectation. 

My opinion of course. Everyone is entitled to theirs. 

[Fuber]

5 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

Long time lurker but I've been compelled to finally post. I'm sure similar posts have been done before so apologies if going over old ground. 

Anyway I've been astonished by the negativity on here by the majority of posters.

Firstly,  I liked Pearson and thought he built some really good foundations and I was annoyed when he got sacked. I also think the communication from the club around it all was poor. But after talking to someone I know who works in first team football (at championship level), I was reassured that a more forward thinking manager made sense to keep up with the direction football is heading. This person had also worked with Pearson and liked him but he told me he thought Pearson had taken as far as he could and thinks City need a technical coach to push us on to the next level and overachieve against teams with a higher wage bill. 

I can't understand what the hatred is for Manning and the way we play. As much as I liked Pearson, the football was generally terrible and we lumped it around most of the time - occasionally we played entertaining counter attacking football but we were unbelievably inconsistent. I think the players did care and they battled, which resonated with everyone (although I think the same is true of players under Manning but he is perhaps asking them to be more conservative/efficient at times with their energy). I'm not convinced Pearson was the man to push us on to the next level as much as what he did at the club was important. 

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. I've never seen a Bristol City team dominate teams on the ball in the Championship like we do under Manning this season & we create more clear chances this season then we have for years. I appreciate that some people think it's boring but you can't argue that playing that way doesn't work at Championship level. Nearly all of the teams that have success in football at the moment tend to dominate possession in general and/or play a high press. So, I don't understand why people are against this trend or can't see that we have improved in these areas. 

I've seen a lot of comments about people wanting 90 minutes performances but that's not realistic under any manager for Bristol City in a competitive league. A 90 minute performance to me will likely include periods of the game where you are under pressure - it's about withstanding that pressure and turning the momentum back into your favour. I've also recently seen comments about our squad being too big, which doesn't make sense to me - we have seen how injuries have impacted us in the last few seasons and for the first time we probably have enough depth to deal with it. 

It feels like people cannot see past some of the comments that were made after Pearson got sacked but those aren't Manning's fault. There also seems to be a weird hangover from Lee Johnson with people thinking any other young technical type coach is exactly the same as LJ and can't be successful just because they use coaching language in interviews and haven't got vast amounts of experience in management - but loads of young coaches with similar experience to Manning are hugely successful. It also genuinely feels like people want Manning to fail because of these factors. 

Not sure what the purpose of my post is other than to get it off my chest and to encourage people to consider how much we have developed this season in terms of possession, chances created and patterns of play. I think we are still trying to find a balance between attack and defence.  

Ultimately, it's a results business and we need better results, which I hope will come if we keep doing what we are doing - and I think the signs are encouraging, apart from a couple of matches, where we were punished. But it's still early in the season and I think worth noting that I still wouldn't say we have a top 6 squad (regardless of some flippant comments from Tinnion). So, I don't understand where the negativity comes from or why there is a lack of acknowledgement for how much the team has developed, even if you are annoyed about the results, the club and the way Pearson was treated.

I'm desperate for City to have a good season and compete for promotion and I'm fed up of mid table mediocrity. I think based on current trends in football and the way we are looking to develop Manning gives us a reasonable chance of that. And if not Manning then someone else similar on paper. Carlos Corberan is a similar obsessive, technical coach and he's overachieving with West Brom- same can be said for McKenna last season, so it can be done. 

I'm aware that this post may be met with me being accused of being some sort of Bristol Sport bot/employee but so be it. 

Has it?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

True, of course we could have less points and equally we could have more points but we are where we are, watching with the naked eye on balance of play we would more likely of won those games than lost those games, you'll have to excuse my ignorance but i've no idea how those XG and XGA stats work 

Which is kinda my point.  We can only really deal with the results we’ve got, and go from there.  To say things like “had we won at Hull we’d be 3 points off the playoffs” is a bit futile really.

Balance of play is so hard to quantify and single game xG ain’t the place to start.  I certainly get where you are coming from, but until last night (where I felt we looked more solid) I’ve thought that although we have had the greater share of the game, 1) we haven’t done enough with it, 2) our opponents look more dangerous with less share….making me feel games are more even.

Personally I’d rather build on last night (first half), but focus on why that stopped working second half, and what the alternate option is when it does.  Playing into Pring with no way out bar going back to McNally or O’Leary or pumping a long ball is not the definition of well-coached.  We could point the finger at “where are the leaders on the pitch to recognise this”, but I feel Manning uses that to pass the buck on this.  For him his game plan is “king”, so why would you expect players to feel empowered to resolve themselves.  I feel he had introduced rigidity through his stubbornness / superiority attitude.  So, no surprise when he doesn’t really deviate from this with substitutions.  He’s reliant on the incoming player being better than the outgoing player.  That’s “hope” isn’t it, it’s not skilled tactical decisioning.

Digressed a bit, but this is partly why we aren’t getting “90 minute performances” (and you know I don’t mean dominate the whole game).

The other part is the skill (in some cases) of the bloke in the opposite technical area.  We can have balance of play for 2/3rds of the game but the opposition manager is capable of stopping us / starting them.

@ExiledAjax the above is what I didn’t write earlier.

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

We probably could have got the ball forward quickly to mix it up a bit but didn't, so what does that tell you? We allowed them to get organised because we are far too predictable and been found out, with Manning being incapable of changing up and doing something different, that's either arrogance or naivety.

Pretty much every team this year has found us out, if not at the start of the game then during, this is why we'll have fits and starts with a good 20 mins here and there, as much as I don't want it to happen I honestly think someone of quality will get their act together and give us absolute hiding.

I know that various people have quoted stats about our xG and chances created, if we extrapolate our points per game currently over 46 games then we end up on 57 points, 50 got you relegated last year, and to add to that we've not played any of the relegated teams or many other teams that were top 6 last season.

Unless something changes to affect our form then we could be very much looking at the wrong end of the table again.

 

Yep, as above, we are almost having to work harder for our results because a 20 minute spell can undo us.

 

[NDW4CITY]

34 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

My opinion for what it’s worth….

Last night was boring. 
We are too often toothless in front of goal. 

Both statements are true. 
But - if you want fantastic end to end attacking football, tearing sides apart, with every player showing off world class skills and expect to see it at BS3 then you’re deluded. You might as well go and support one of the plastic premiership teams. 

The only way we will see that kind of dominant play here is by us dropping down to league 1 and getting someone like Cotts to get us to smash the ‘minnows’ again on our way back up - a big fish in a small sea. Right now in this league we are a bang average side in an a larger sea - with bigger fishes in it.

We are a mid table Championship club. Let’s not get angry when we play like one and get the results of one. 
That doesn’t mean I don’t WANT us to win every game and play well - of course I do - It’s just that I don’t EXPECT it.

One day it might ‘click’ and we might mount a serious challenge but to me that would be a wonderful bonus not an expectation. 

My opinion of course. Everyone is entitled to theirs. 

Fair enough. But don’t you think there was a fair bit of expectation raising by BT, JL etc when LM joined and over the summer. Surely they did not say to LM  - “Here’s the thick end of 10 million - please basically keep us in the same position as a year ago. “? I applaud the investment but equally shouldn’t we expect to see more signs of improvement than is currently the case?

[bcfcredandwhite]

21 minutes ago, NDW4CITY said:

Fair enough. But don’t you think there was a fair bit of expectation raising by BT, JL etc when LM joined and over the summer. Surely they did not say to LM  - “Here’s the thick end of 10 million - please basically keep us in the same position as a year ago. “? I applaud the investment but equally shouldn’t we expect to see more signs of improvement than is currently the case?

I get this. 
I just don’t believe or get excited by anything that JL says. 
Try it - it’s good for the blood pressure!!!

[NDW4CITY]

Just now, bcfcredandwhite said:

I get this. 
I just don’t believe or get excited by anything that JL says. 
Try it - it’s good for the blood pressure!!!

Raising expectations = raising blood pressure. I get it now! 

[S_C]

10 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

Firstly,  I liked Pearson and thought he built some really good foundations and I was annoyed when he got sacked. I also think the communication from the club around it all was poor. But after talking to someone I know who works in first team football (at championship level), I was reassured that a more forward thinking manager made sense to keep up with the direction football is heading.

I'm not convinced Pearson was the man to push us on to the next level as much as what he did at the club was important. 

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. 

Not sure what the purpose of my post is other than to get it off my chest and to encourage people to consider how much we have developed this season in terms of possession, chances created and patterns of play. I think we are still trying to find a balance between attack and defence.  

But it's still early in the season and I think worth noting that I still wouldn't say we have a top 6 squad (regardless of some flippant comments from Tinnion). So, I don't understand where the negativity comes from or why there is a lack of acknowledgement for how much the team has developed, even if you are annoyed about the results, the club and the way Pearson was treated.

I'm aware that this post may be met with me being accused of being some sort of Bristol Sport bot/employee but so be it. 

Good post. Not necessarily because I agree with it, but nice to see some balance. Ive cut it down to a few bits, I'm using my phone so apologies if poorly executed.

Didn't have to get many lines in to know the first responses would be ‘Hi Liam/Brian/Jon’ etc. It’s a predictable jab though, to be fair, one I wouldn’t discredit based on tone..

I think what I find most interesting is that you acknowledge you were ‘annoyed’ when Pearson was sacked and, more importantly, that the communication from the club was ‘poor’ yet later refer to the post-Pearson rationale of top 6 squad as being a ‘flippant’ comment. I thought it was Jon L who said that rather than Brian but could be wrong, I guess it’s irrelevant as they were same song sheet.

I was similarly annoyed when Pearson was sacked, which was compounded by the amateurish way it was handled and ludicrous assertion (lie) that he was underperforming with a promotion challenging squad. Whilst I agree that isn’t Liam’s fault he is, unfortunately, unavoidably, collateral to their incompetence.

The Pearson chat has been done to death but, to summarise, I had phases with him. I think he did well at times, I think there were times we were unacceptably poor under him, I liked and didn’t like his mannerisms at different points, but ultimately we were moving in the right direction from a hugely hindered starting point. People pining for the old head who had to sell the silverware is inevitable, especially when the young company-man has seen the opposite end of things.

There have been some good signs under Manning. I thought we were excellent at Hull, in and out of possession. We had a strong 45 vs Coventry then faltered. We were comfortably the better team 1st half last night, albeit winning the stats war without really landing a blow. Broadly, I disagree that it’s any better than Pearson, but I also think, poor 2nd half acknowledged, there’s been a massive overreaction.

Results change things. Lose Sunday and it goes up a few notches but, I mean, we are where we are. What’s the point in sacking him? We’ll just fish in the same pond, maybe a slightly sexier foreign one, and appoint a Manning clone. It needs to run its course with Liam. For all the ridiculous expectations pedalled by the hierarchy, which will inevitably be dialled back, that isn’t giving him the tools he wants and binning him 8 games later.

Edited October 3 by S_C

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

just to add balance RedOxo, your mate also knows Mr Pearson and he does think he could have taken the club on further 

 

[Ian M]

10 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

 

These childish comments are exactly the problem that the OP is referring to. A first time poster has put up his opinion which is different to other peoples on here (which should be absolutely fine on a forum that encourages debate) yet because the only acceptable opinion on here is Pearson is the lord and saviour he gets dismissed without even trying to debate it. Strange behaviour imo

Matched by an equally number of childish cult of Nige/Nige love-in type comments that you yourself have fallen prey to.

I have a negative opinion of Liam because I think he's a pretty shit head coach. I don't have any illusion that Nige will return, I simply want someone to come in and get the most out of what I think is actually a pretty talented squad of footballers. But any time I post, I get dismissed in the manner you have above so half the time I don't bother.

[Slack Bladder]

Did he allude to in the post match interview that Wednesday had an extra days rest and his players had been in 6 days in a row?

Then he only makes 3 subs during the match.

Making me think he doesn't rate some of his more recent signings.

[Natchfever]

8 minutes ago, Slack Bladder said:

Did he allude to in the post match interview that Wednesday had an extra days rest and his players had been in 6 days in a row?

Then he only makes 3 subs during the match.

Making me think he doesn't rate some of his more recent signings.

Making me think he cant manage a game at our level.

Certainly seems like when an opposition coach tweaks things, Manning doesnt react.

[Ian M]

4 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Making me think he cant manage a game at our level.

Certainly seems like when an opposition coach tweaks things, Manning doesnt react.

Because he has total belief that his system is king and must not be changed.

Even the recent game against Oxford where he is credited with his subs changing the game, the system stayed the same he just changed where/which the personnel were deployed. He relies on an incoming player out-performing an outgoing player.

In games where an opposing manager has successfully made tactical changes to negate our system, he never/very rarely wrestles back control.

[NDW4CITY]

5 minutes ago, Slack Bladder said:

Did he allude to in the post match interview that Wednesday had an extra days rest and his players had been in 6 days in a row?

Then he only makes 3 subs during the match.

Making me think he doesn't rate some of his more recent signings.

Great point.

I really hope you explanation is not the actual reason.

He’s got pretty much the squad he desired. We’re as well stocked for players as at any time since LJ (albeit with a few injuries to contend with ). Situations like this are the very reason you have this size of squad. Utilize the squad instead of complaining about fixture imbalances.

[bpexile]

10 hours ago, Roe said:

You don't understand why people are frustrated at sitting in the bottom half, watching dull 0-0 draws and 12 months of mediocrity after such backing?

Really?

I agree & understand your post, but I was just relieved to get a draw & not get done by a lesser ranked team as we have done so many times in the past. In saying that I certainly want to see better results coming in as we all do 

[mozo]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

How come the “what ifs” are always “had we won this” or “not conceded that”?  Never the other way around?

We could just as easily be sat here with less points than we have.

 

You possibly didn't notice the post I was responding to. Dr Pops asked how far off we were from an acceptable start to the season. So I responded that had we held on v Hull I'd have been happy with our total.

It was specific to the question.

[ashton_fan]

17 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

It’s odd how every now and again someone comes along and posts their first post and it’s an epic essay on why we should get behind the team.

I’m not saying the poster is right or wrong but I just find it odd, why not make a few short comments over the time you’ve been lurking? If it was a one off I wouldn’t smell a rat but this happens quite often and then we never hear from them again.

 

There are a lot of people who just read the forum and don't want to get involved in posting 

[ashton_fan]

I remember the season we got promoted under John Ward we had a similar start and the team were booed off after drawing at home with Bournemouth, he was very upset at the time. Things haven't really changed that much!

Edited October 4 by ashton_fan

[Barrs Court Red]

1 hour ago, ashton_fan said:

I remember the season we got promoted under John Ward we had a similar start and the team were booed off after drawing at home with Bournemouth, he was very upset at the time. Things haven't really changed that much!

I seem to remember he credited someone shouting through a window after a game for spurring the team on?

[formerly known as ivan]

20 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

Long time lurker but I've been compelled to finally post. I'm sure similar posts have been done before so apologies if going over old ground. 

Anyway I've been astonished by the negativity on here by the majority of posters.

Firstly,  I liked Pearson and thought he built some really good foundations and I was annoyed when he got sacked. I also think the communication from the club around it all was poor. But after talking to someone I know who works in first team football (at championship level), I was reassured that a more forward thinking manager made sense to keep up with the direction football is heading. This person had also worked with Pearson and liked him but he told me he thought Pearson had taken as far as he could and thinks City need a technical coach to push us on to the next level and overachieve against teams with a higher wage bill. 

I can't understand what the hatred is for Manning and the way we play. As much as I liked Pearson, the football was generally terrible and we lumped it around most of the time - occasionally we played entertaining counter attacking football but we were unbelievably inconsistent. I think the players did care and they battled, which resonated with everyone (although I think the same is true of players under Manning but he is perhaps asking them to be more conservative/efficient at times with their energy). I'm not convinced Pearson was the man to push us on to the next level as much as what he did at the club was important. 

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. I've never seen a Bristol City team dominate teams on the ball in the Championship like we do under Manning this season & we create more clear chances this season then we have for years. I appreciate that some people think it's boring but you can't argue that playing that way doesn't work at Championship level. Nearly all of the teams that have success in football at the moment tend to dominate possession in general and/or play a high press. So, I don't understand why people are against this trend or can't see that we have improved in these areas. 

I've seen a lot of comments about people wanting 90 minutes performances but that's not realistic under any manager for Bristol City in a competitive league. A 90 minute performance to me will likely include periods of the game where you are under pressure - it's about withstanding that pressure and turning the momentum back into your favour. I've also recently seen comments about our squad being too big, which doesn't make sense to me - we have seen how injuries have impacted us in the last few seasons and for the first time we probably have enough depth to deal with it. 

It feels like people cannot see past some of the comments that were made after Pearson got sacked but those aren't Manning's fault. There also seems to be a weird hangover from Lee Johnson with people thinking any other young technical type coach is exactly the same as LJ and can't be successful just because they use coaching language in interviews and haven't got vast amounts of experience in management - but loads of young coaches with similar experience to Manning are hugely successful. It also genuinely feels like people want Manning to fail because of these factors. 

Not sure what the purpose of my post is other than to get it off my chest and to encourage people to consider how much we have developed this season in terms of possession, chances created and patterns of play. I think we are still trying to find a balance between attack and defence.  

Ultimately, it's a results business and we need better results, which I hope will come if we keep doing what we are doing - and I think the signs are encouraging, apart from a couple of matches, where we were punished. But it's still early in the season and I think worth noting that I still wouldn't say we have a top 6 squad (regardless of some flippant comments from Tinnion). So, I don't understand where the negativity comes from or why there is a lack of acknowledgement for how much the team has developed, even if you are annoyed about the results, the club and the way Pearson was treated.

I'm desperate for City to have a good season and compete for promotion and I'm fed up of mid table mediocrity. I think based on current trends in football and the way we are looking to develop Manning gives us a reasonable chance of that. And if not Manning then someone else similar on paper. Carlos Corberan is a similar obsessive, technical coach and he's overachieving with West Brom- same can be said for McKenna last season, so it can be done. 

I'm aware that this post may be met with me being accused of being some sort of Bristol Sport bot/employee but so be it. 

If you’ve bought into what Tinnion, Manning and the club are doing then fair play to you. People will always have different views.

The bit I would question is the part about football coming on leaps and bounds. For me, we are witnessing the most boring period of football in recent memory. So much so I don't bother going and more often than not turn off when on tv.

If you find this football entertaining I can only imagine what you do for fun in your own time.

[Oh Louie louie]

There was bad feeling for ward that season by the time we played Northampton, half the away end wanted him out 

[westonred]

I feel the fans have the right to be unhappy and show their feelings by booing. It lets the board know that things need to change There are too many Happy Clappers out there that will just go along with this mediocre football we are witnessing currently.

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

My opinion for what it’s worth….

Last night was boring. 
We are too often toothless in front of goal. 

Both statements are true. 
But - if you want fantastic end to end attacking football, tearing sides apart, with every player showing off world class skills and expect to see it at BS3 then you’re deluded. You might as well go and support one of the plastic premiership teams. 

The only way we will see that kind of dominant play here is by us dropping down to league 1 and getting someone like Cotts to get us to smash the ‘minnows’ again on our way back up - a big fish in a small sea. Right now in this league we are a bang average side in an a larger sea - with bigger fishes in it.

We are a mid table Championship club. Let’s not get angry when we play like one and get the results of one. 
That doesn’t mean I don’t WANT us to win every game and play well - of course I do - It’s just that I don’t EXPECT it.

One day it might ‘click’ and we might mount a serious challenge but to me that would be a wonderful bonus not an expectation. 

My opinion of course. Everyone is entitled to theirs. 

Wasn’t the vision we were sold when the change was made, was it?

Even if some of knew it was delusional bollocks, we were told “front foot, attacking football” & the aim was to be “10 points better off than last season”.

We’ve been told a load of lies (yet again).

On one hand I genuinely feel sorry for Manning, but £10m has been spent this summer, he’s been allowed to bring in his chosen one, a fifth central defender, a kid from West Ham AND Twine.

Hardly like when Pearson was only given £300k to spend in a whole summer, is it?

There’s the root cause of the negativity.

[Maesknoll Red]

12 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

My opinion for what it’s worth….

Last night was boring. 
We are too often toothless in front of goal. 

Both statements are true. 
But - if you want fantastic end to end attacking football, tearing sides apart, with every player showing off world class skills and expect to see it at BS3 then you’re deluded. You might as well go and support one of the plastic premiership teams. 

The only way we will see that kind of dominant play here is by us dropping down to league 1 and getting someone like Cotts to get us to smash the ‘minnows’ again on our way back up - a big fish in a small sea. Right now in this league we are a bang average side in an a larger sea - with bigger fishes in it.

We are a mid table Championship club. Let’s not get angry when we play like one and get the results of one. 
That doesn’t mean I don’t WANT us to win every game and play well - of course I do - It’s just that I don’t EXPECT it.

One day it might ‘click’ and we might mount a serious challenge but to me that would be a wonderful bonus not an expectation. 

My opinion of course. Everyone is entitled to theirs. 

What’s the point of being a mid table club and accepting it, pointless waste of time and money supporting a club that will neither excite or disappoint.  Football is not like like that, or at least it didn’t used to be, it used to be a place where dreams could be realised, where hope was always present, but years of mediocrity is bound to wear most fans down to the point of apathy or worse, walking away.

[ashton_fan]

43 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

If you’ve bought into what Tinnion, Manning and the club are doing then fair play to you. People will always have different views.

The bit I would question is the part about football coming on leaps and bounds. For me, we are witnessing the most boring period of football in recent memory. So much so I don't bother going and more often than not turn off when on tv.

If you find this football entertaining I can only imagine what you do for fun in your own time.

Personally I really enjoyed the opening three home games, the most entertaining matches I've seen at AG for ages. I understand why people got fed up last season when the players didn't fully understand the new system but we've got past that stage now. There's always going to be an occasional bad game like the 2nd half against Wednesday.

[Topper 123]

20 hours ago, One Team said:

The negativity in the first few games wasn’t at Manning it was at Lansdown, and even now still is at times. 

Why lansdowns they’ve provided the monies and they don’t do the signings - it’s a bit like going to the bank to take a loan for a car , you buy the car and it breaks down ,you can’t go back to the bank and moan the cars a banger YOU USED THEIR MONEY TO BUY IT , you chose that car ,the fault is in the buyer ,don’t blame lansdowns 

16 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Why? You clearly have a lot to contribute. If you disappear as quickly as you appeared, people may well think you're part of a certain organisation.

The man speaks sense 

[Olé]

4 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

The football under Manning to me has come on leaps and bounds. I've never seen a Bristol City team dominate teams on the ball in the Championship like we do under Manning this season & we create more clear chances this season then we have for years.

Respect for your well reasoned post and for balance I do think that Liam Manning deserves some credit for the way he has at times got City playing the tidy and controlled football you describe (which I agree is something of a historic rarity for City's lower division playing squads), but the problem for me is too often it is window dressing in safe areas and lacks any end product (I disagree on clear chances, it's lots of sideways passes and then a hopeful centre) and completely lacks flexibility or aggression to respond and adapt to in-game changes and try to win games. It's boringly predictable pre-ordained football.

You don't win prizes for dominating games in safe areas like a low quality Russell Martin tribute act.

Add in that it's wildly inconsistent (whether or not because the players lack the quality to execute or that Manning can't nuance his ideas for specific opponents - in any case both would be Manning's fault), and that we've spent a large amount of money, and that in parallel our solid defensive record ground out with a lesser squad appears to be falling apart, and it's not a great combination for a manager who doesn't have a lot of career previous to hang his hat on. Like you I want to be positive about the bloke and the side he wants City to be, but unfortunately the reality is a long way away from what's in his head.

[bcfcredandwhite]

41 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

What’s the point of being a mid table club and accepting it, pointless waste of time and money supporting a club that will neither excite or disappoint.  Football is not like like that, or at least it didn’t used to be, it used to be a place where dreams could be realised, where hope was always present, but years of mediocrity is bound to wear most fans down to the point of apathy or worse, walking away.

It’s not that I don’t want us to win, or challenge for promotion - I do of course. 
I just don’t get stressed out every time we DONT win. 
I used to but I don’t now. 
I’ve been a supporter since the 1970s and believe me what we are seeing now is a lot better than much I’ve seen over the last 50 years. 
Fans walking away? Despite the apparent frustration and anger vented on this site, attendances are up, so SOMETHING must be going right.