Negativity

[mozo]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Robins probably under pressure for first time in a very long time.

 

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Mozo - all football are pretty much the same and the Coventry forum will be exactly the same as every other forum who’s team is experiencing a poor run of results.

 

I just had a brief look at their forum and some familiar themes:

Let their experienced players leave in the summer.

Last season was worse than it looks.

Robins is too stubborn with his formation/tactics

Robins too cautious.

"[Robins] likes tippy happy boring football"

"The manager is happy to try and get a draw at home to Sheffield Wednesday rather than go for the win."

...

It was like looking in the mirror! 

 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

I just had a brief look at their forum and some familiar themes:

Let their experienced players leave in the summer.

Last season was worse than it looks.

Robins is too stubborn with his formation/tactics

Robins too cautious.

"[Robins] likes tippy happy boring football"

"The manager is happy to try and get a draw at home to Sheffield Wednesday rather than go for the win."

...

It was like looking in the mirror! 

 

Yep - no surprise there……..we football fans are pretty much all the same.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Yep - no surprise there……..we football fans are pretty much all the same.

Yep- every club's got Robbored somewhere.

[1960maaan]

46 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Yep - no surprise there……..we football fans are pretty much all the same.

God I hate to say this, but I agree with you 

[Ska Junkie]

8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

God I hate to say this, but I agree with you 

Even the few up at Stalag methane?

[1960maaan]

9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Even the few up at Stalag methane?

Good point, well made. 

Never really felt comfortable with the phrase, but ...

The exception that proves the rule 

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

3 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm reading nothing at all apart from being quoted in a 'pro Pearson' post and don't find the odd humorous comment 'tired or worn out' and won't change because a jumped up merchant calls me out as I'm far too old to care.

As for 'over reaction', it wasn't me that called someone out for trying to lighten the mood, it was some prat on here, can't remember nor care who.

After 50 years following this club, I answer to nobody on here, apart from maybe Fevs and Phantom who I respect immensely. You, 'MATE' are at the other end of the scale. Please put me on ignore and I will do the same reciprocally.

Enjoy your weekend.

I haven't said anything whatsoever about you being pro Pearson.

I'm not going to put you on ignore because you've read something that I haven't written.

Take a breather mate, we're all city and I've not made any attack towards you whatsoever, not claimed you to hold any views at all and you've gone off ranting at me.

As I said before, no offence has been taken. Just take a breather.

[bpexile]

7 hours ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

These lurkers always seem to have their tongues lodged up the Lansdowns' collective crevice.

I hope I'm not classified as a "Lurker" because I do appreciate what SL has done re the development of AG & for his money that he has poured in to wipe out debts etc etc etc. What I hate is the fact that very good CEO's have been allowed to leave without being replaced only to leave a SL puppet in charge, and when we had a capable manager in that saved their arses, he was disposed of, probably because a few home truths were told.

So, in a nutshell I haven't got my tongue lodged up the Lansdowns' collective crevice, but I am grateful for some of things he/they have achieved at AG .

Edited October 5 by bpexile

[watkins1983]

Always going to have negativity around city. Mid table finishes year after year. Previous manager who did a good rebuilt with very limited finances  and didnt get the money to spend on transfers as previous and the successive manager. 

Always a case for the  “what if” argument regarding backing him at the time but his time was done. His health was poor and the the fact hasnt managed since leaving city shows it was the right time to go for me

is Manning the right man for the job? After the last few games and the match midweek I’m not so sure. Got the financial backing to bring new Strikers  and a decent loan signing from West Ham in Earthy in, ans rather than bring them on, he brings on Nahki and Sykes midweek. Baffled me

I think we will perform better against the decent teams in the league like last season but will continue to  struggle to break down teams who sit behind the ball and the lack of a plan b continue to frustrate.

Hopefully a decent performance and more clinical infront of goal tomorrow against Cardiff before some tough fixtures home and away. 

 

 

 

 

[glynriley]

8 minutes ago, watkins1983 said:

Always going to have negativity around city. Mid table finishes year after year. Previous manager who did a good rebuilt with very limited finances  and didnt get the money to spend on transfers as previous and the successive manager. 

Always a case for the  “what if” argument regarding backing him at the time but his time was done. His health was poor and the the fact hasnt managed since leaving city shows it was the right time to go for me

is Manning the right man for the job? After the last few games and the match midweek I’m not so sure. Got the financial backing to bring new Strikers  and a decent loan signing from West Ham in Earthy in, ans rather than bring them on, he brings on Nahki and Sykes midweek. Baffled me

I think we will perform better against the decent teams in the league like last season but will continue to  struggle to break down teams who sit behind the ball and the lack of a plan b continue to frustrate.

Hopefully a decent performance and more clinical infront of goal tomorrow against Cardiff before some tough fixtures home and away. 

 

 

 

 

Need to win tomorrow. After the international break, and before the one in November we have

Boro A

Stoke A

Leeds H

Preston A

Sheff U H

Norwich A

We struggle to win away and the two home games are the dictionary definition of tough. Can see us only getting 3-5 points at best from that lot. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

On 03/10/2024 at 14:28, Charlie BCFC said:

 

These childish comments are exactly the problem that the OP is referring to. A first time poster has put up his opinion which is different to other peoples on here (which should be absolutely fine on a forum that encourages debate) yet because the only acceptable opinion on here is Pearson is the lord and saviour he gets dismissed without even trying to debate it. Strange behaviour imo

I guess the "chilidish comments" are in response to a post that is far removed from reality. 

[watkins1983]

11 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Need to win tomorrow. After the international break, and before the one in November we have

Boro A

Stoke A

Leeds H

Preston A

Sheff U H

Norwich A

We struggle to win away and the two home games are the dictionary definition of tough. Can see us only getting 3-5 points at best from that lot. 

Yeh going to very tough for next 5 weeks. Negativity levels could potentially be through the roof and we could be right up against it in the league. 
Think we will get some results though in those fixtures and have a chance to play some decent open football hopefully 

[JAWS]

1 hour ago, bpexile said:

I hope I'm not classified as a "Lurker" because I do appreciate what SL has done re the development of AG & for his money that he has poured in to wipe out debts etc etc etc. What I hate is the fact that very good CEO's have been allowed to leave without being replaced only to leave a SL puppet in charge, and when we had a capable manager in that saved their arses, he was disposed of, probably because a few home truths were told.

So, in a nutshell I haven't got my tongue lodged up the Lansdowns' collective crevice, but I am grateful for some of things he/they have achieved at AG .

What have they achieved that you wouldn't expect another owner to achieve during their 22 years in  control? I think I'd expect at least what we have in terms of infrastructure. And even then teams like Bournemouth seem to have done ok! It's on the pitch where we have failed miserably. The bit that counts!

If they showed some more humility it would help! And treating us fans with a bit more respect. 

 

 

 

[bpexile]

4 minutes ago, JAWS said:

It's on the pitch where we have failed miserably. The bit that counts!

If they showed some more humility it would help! And treating us fans with a bit more respect. 

Totally agree with all that 

[City oz]

56 minutes ago, watkins1983 said:

Yeh going to very tough for next 5 weeks. Negativity levels could potentially be through the roof and we could be right up against it in the league. 
Think we will get some results though in those fixtures and have a chance to play some decent open football hopefully 

A home win today will see us in 10th spot. A draw and God forbid a loss will see us still in 17th depending on goal difference and most will be thinking this season is all but over.

Most betting sites have us tipped for a home win.

[Spike]

The thing that worries me about tomorrow... Pearson was sacked after a loss to Cardiff and had half the squad out injured, albeit we were 17 games into the season and tomorrow we'll only be 9 games in but if we do lose we'll be 4 places lower than we were when Pearson was sacked. It's that comparison that bothers me, I mean we were supposed to be getting a man who can take us up a step, who can get us into the Promotion chase and I'm still not seeing that even with the backing he's had.

I'm not saying that Manning should go if we lose tomorrow but I do see anything but a win tomorrow as confirmation that we've not really improved. The football has been better at times, but it's also been far worse too and the main difference is Pearson got results even when we had a large injury list, Manning is not missing many players at all in comparison and has had all the backing he could have asked for to create the squad he wanted. I worry that he won't finish this season as head coach and we'll end up having to rebuild again and I think that it what causes the negativity. As a fan what have we had to get excited about if we're honest with ourselves? We got two new strikers, one is fantastic until he tries to finish, the other can finish but creates absolutely nothing and needs to be supplied with chances to score.

I really hope we win tomorrow, 9 games in, 3 points off of relegation with only Preston, Coventry and Luton between us definitely gives the fans a reason to feel negative towards what we're seeing. On the other hand, win convincingly and we go 10th with only 3 points between us and 6th... I feel like despite only being the 9th game for us in the league it could actually be the game that either motivates the team or kills the motivation, it's a big match in my eyes.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Cardiff loss was 14 Games in, albeit 2 Carabao Cup games too.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

The thing that worries me about tomorrow... Pearson was sacked after a loss to Cardiff and had half the squad out injured, albeit we were 17 games into the season and tomorrow we'll only be 9 games in but if we do lose we'll be 4 places lower than we were when Pearson was sacked. It's that comparison that bothers me, I mean we were supposed to be getting a man who can take us up a step, who can get us into the Promotion chase and I'm still not seeing that even with the backing he's had.

I'm not saying that Manning should go if we lose tomorrow but I do see anything but a win tomorrow as confirmation that we've not really improved. The football has been better at times, but it's also been far worse too and the main difference is Pearson got results even when we had a large injury list, Manning is not missing many players at all in comparison and has had all the backing he could have asked for to create the squad he wanted. I worry that he won't finish this season as head coach and we'll end up having to rebuild again and I think that it what causes the negativity. As a fan what have we had to get excited about if we're honest with ourselves? We got two new strikers, one is fantastic until he tries to finish, the other can finish but creates absolutely nothing and needs to be supplied with chances to score.

I really hope we win tomorrow, 9 games in, 3 points off of relegation with only Preston, Coventry and Luton between us definitely gives the fans a reason to feel negative towards what we're seeing. On the other hand, win convincingly and we go 10th with only 3 points between us and 6th... I feel like despite only being the 9th game for us in the league it could actually be the game that either motivates the team or kills the motivation, it's a big match in my eyes.

Pearson was asked to resign post Leicester which was 8 games with us on 12 points from 8 games. We are now on 10 points from 8 games, go figure. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Pearson was asked to resign post Leicester which was 8 games with us on 12 points from 8 games. We are now on 10 points from 8 games, go figure. 

Is that right?

I thought it was post Leeds (15 from 11)? We would need 5 points from the next 3 just to equal it, or obviously 5+ to exceed.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is that right?

I thought it was post Leeds (15 from 11)? We would need 5 points from the next 3 just to equal it, or obviously 5+ to exceed.

Could be. I've had a few beers

But I think ultimately we're just going to trend about the same as we were a year ago. 

 

[Silvio Dante]

8 hours ago, glynriley said:

Need to win tomorrow. After the international break, and before the one in November we have

Boro A

Stoke A

Leeds H

Preston A

Sheff U H

Norwich A

We struggle to win away and the two home games are the dictionary definition of tough. Can see us only getting 3-5 points at best from that lot. 

It’s a point I’ve made a few times - we seemed to have a very favourable start (noting that’s based on pre season expectations and what most would have pegged as our toughest game in the run was Coventry who are struggling). 
 

On a realistic basis though, considering relative difficulty, you can take whatever position we’re in post Cardiff and in practical terms we’re trending slightly downwards from that. Nine games in isn’t even a quarter of the season, but if we are 17th post today, then the likely trend is towards a relegation scrap. If we’re three points off the playoffs, then it’s a likely mid table trend.

Three points or not today doesn’t make or break the season. But when you look at those next set of fixtures in the round, it’s a brave man who thinks we’ll get more as opposed to less points from them and post that Norwich game, we can expect to be a couple of places lower than we finish today in at least.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s a point I’ve made a few times - we seemed to have a very favourable start (noting that’s based on pre season expectations and what most would have pegged as our toughest game in the run was Coventry who are struggling). 
 

On a realistic basis though, considering relative difficulty, you can take whatever position we’re in post Cardiff and in practical terms we’re trending slightly downwards from that. Nine games in isn’t even a quarter of the season, but if we are 17th post today, then the likely trend is towards a relegation scrap. If we’re three points off the playoffs, then it’s a likely mid table trend.

Three points or not today doesn’t make or break the season. But when you look at those next set of fixtures in the round, it’s a brave man who thinks we’ll get more as opposed to less points from them and post that Norwich game, we can expect to be a couple of places lower than we finish today in at least.

Lots of variables though if we win today.

A bit of a deeper squad and indeed in some ways a weaker League, injuries hopefully heading in the right direction..some of the tough games on paper the opposition are a bit flattered vs underlying numbers.

Have to win today first though, if we lose I see little grounds for optimism.

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Pearson was asked to resign post Leicester which was 8 games with us on 12 points from 8 games. We are now on 10 points from 8 games, go figure. 

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is that right?

I thought it was post Leeds (15 from 11)? We would need 5 points from the next 3 just to equal it, or obviously 5+ to exceed.

Yes, Leeds - meetings held. 

3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s a point I’ve made a few times - we seemed to have a very favourable start (noting that’s based on pre season expectations and what most would have pegged as our toughest game in the run was Coventry who are struggling). 
 

On a realistic basis though, considering relative difficulty, you can take whatever position we’re in post Cardiff and in practical terms we’re trending slightly downwards from that. Nine games in isn’t even a quarter of the season, but if we are 17th post today, then the likely trend is towards a relegation scrap. If we’re three points off the playoffs, then it’s a likely mid table trend.

Three points or not today doesn’t make or break the season. But when you look at those next set of fixtures in the round, it’s a brave man who thinks we’ll get more as opposed to less points from them and post that Norwich game, we can expect to be a couple of places lower than we finish today in at least.

Win, lose or draw I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, Leeds - meetings held. 

Win, lose or draw I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

His average tenure at a Club is 0.94 of a year. That puts him in November.

[glynriley]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, Leeds - meetings held. 

Win, lose or draw I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

Not today maybe, but…

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

His average tenure at a Club is 0.94 of a year. That puts him in November.

If we don’t win today I reckon he’ll be gone when the next international break arrives. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

What's the average Championship manager tenure on that note? 

A year- bit more, bit longer?

[Davefevs]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

What's the average Championship manager tenure on that note? 

A year- bit more, bit longer?

About 400 days, less if you take Robins out!

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

About 400 days, less if you take Robins out!

Thanks, so by mid November or early December, he'll have hit the average then.

Edited October 6 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Mid December perhaps.

[noize]

ive gone past caring about pretty football. i care about where we finish in the league. If we were able to get promoted playing hoof ball fair enough.

I covered this in a previous post, the last 8 years prove the negative posters right, as every season we end up with the same "prize"

Its not just manning, its the whole establishment you need to make a good team, unfortunately we have the landsdowns and Tinnion.

So what are you suggesting we be positive about? you think we will make the play offs? automatic promotion?, or will the negative posters be proved to be right again? rubbish season, mid table, possible lower mid table, Tinnion blaming the fans and saying he knows best on twitter, a couple of embarrassing spankings, and the promise of things to come?

[Fuber]

On 04/10/2024 at 09:45, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s not that I don’t want us to win, or challenge for promotion - I do of course. 
I just don’t get stressed out every time we DONT win. 
I used to but I don’t now. 
I’ve been a supporter since the 1970s and believe me what we are seeing now is a lot better than much I’ve seen over the last 50 years. 
Fans walking away? Despite the apparent frustration and anger vented on this site, attendances are up, so SOMETHING must be going right. 

They're up as the casual fan has only been seeing the statements and the set targets of challenging for promotion. It wont keep up - and thats in spite of the fact Oxford game benefitted from no more summer holidays, and the ticket discounts, bring a friend etc.

The latter promotions only happened with Preston (MD#1, 23/24) while summer holidays were still on.

Secondly - Attendances, on average, are within margin of error when compared to last season, if you want be super accurate - they're actually, in fact, down by 500. They are not 'up' until we see more data/matches.

As for the underlined portion - I concur. It looks pretty.

Sadly its inneffective.

[sh1t_ref_again]

18 hours ago, mozo said:

 

I just had a brief look at their forum and some familiar themes:

Let their experienced players leave in the summer.

Last season was worse than it looks.

Robins is too stubborn with his formation/tactics

Robins too cautious.

"[Robins] likes tippy happy boring football"

"The manager is happy to try and get a draw at home to Sheffield Wednesday rather than go for the win."

...

It was like looking in the mirror! 

 

If you looked back at a year ago, their forum was the same then, before they went on a good run

Just s symptom of modern times and social media

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

About 400 days, less if you take Robins out!

Mind you, take Watford out and it’s 5 years!!!

[hinsleburg]

On 04/10/2024 at 13:35, Mikjizzle said:

Obviously we think differently about that or I wouldn't have done my original post. Sheff W, Oxford & Coventry I thought we were really good (I wasn't at Millwall game). Should have beaten Coventry. I thought we were impressive against Sheff W first half but couldn't break through - I was also quite impressed with how organised they were though.

People seem to dismiss the Oxford victory because of who they are but they are still going pretty strong. 

Not trying to start a row or point score as I appreciate the different views.

Just keen to understand how you viewed that game today? To me, it looked like two absolutely awful teams and there was 0 positives from it. I will say we started well until the injury but that sucked all momentum from us, however, that cannot be used as an excuse.

We've gone backwards in every area as a club last 12 months and I struggle to understand how anybody can see anything different so keen to understand where you think we've improved and why Manning/Tinnion shouldn't be gone already?

[Mikjizzle]

14 hours ago, hinsleburg said:

Not trying to start a row or point score as I appreciate the different views.

Just keen to understand how you viewed that game today? To me, it looked like two absolutely awful teams and there was 0 positives from it. I will say we started well until the injury but that sucked all momentum from us, however, that cannot be used as an excuse.

We've gone backwards in every area as a club last 12 months and I struggle to understand how anybody can see anything different so keen to understand where you think we've improved and why Manning/Tinnion shouldn't be gone already?

To be honest, Cardiff were much better than I was anticipating. I thought both teams looked decent. I don't think I've seen us play a team that looks bad this season, usually a few teams look really disorganised. There seems to be about 15 almost identical teams. 

I still think our level is is considerably better this season than last season or before Manning came in - so I still think our basics on the pitch are much better, particularly on the ball. But admittedly it doesn't seem to be achieving better results at the moment. 

I also think it's very dramatic to say we have gone backwards in every area of club? There has been a shuffle around high up but we are still making the same types of signings as before - I'm not sure what difference any of that has made. You can say you don't like Manning and should have someone different but other than that the club is basically the same - we just have a manager that you don't like. 

[FNQ]

11 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

o be honest, Cardiff were much better than I was anticipating. I thought both teams looked decent. I don't think I've seen us play a team that looks bad this season,

Well Cardiff may have surprised you, but Liam should have known what to expect… didn’t look like he did though did it? Both teams looked decent?? Bloody hell… And if you’ve not seen a bad team so far this season then you’ll really enjoy the Leeds game, they’ll look like Brazil.

 

[Mikjizzle]

9 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Well Cardiff may have surprised you, but Liam should have known what to expect… didn’t look like he did though did it? Both teams looked decent?? Bloody hell… And if you’ve not seen a bad team so far this season then you’ll really enjoy the Leeds game, they’ll look like Brazil.

 

I'm not saying Leeds won't be better than both Cardiff and Bristol City. I'm just saying I've not seen a team that have looked shoddy this season in the champ. Thought quite a few did last season. 

[hinsleburg]

25 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

To be honest, Cardiff were much better than I was anticipating. I thought both teams looked decent. I don't think I've seen us play a team that looks bad this season, usually a few teams look really disorganised. There seems to be about 15 almost identical teams. 

I still think our level is is considerably better this season than last season or before Manning came in - so I still think our basics on the pitch are much better, particularly on the ball. But admittedly it doesn't seem to be achieving better results at the moment. 

I also think it's very dramatic to say we have gone backwards in every area of club? There has been a shuffle around high up but we are still making the same types of signings as before - I'm not sure what difference any of that has made. You can say you don't like Manning and should have someone different but other than that the club is basically the same - we just have a manager that you don't like. 

You're right, it was dramatic, the new matchday announcer is better than Downsy...

I stand by everything else, everything about this club is on a downwards trajectory and for you to not see it you must be part Ostrich with your head in the sand.

Cardiff were shit yesterday, absolutely shit and we made them look average. We're slower, more tedious, lose the ball in the wrong area more and don't ever look like scoring. How many open play goals have we scored this season? Even yesterday's goal I imagine Mcnally got a bollocking after for being that high up the pitch.

This stage last season we had a crazy amount of injuries but we had a team that worked their socks off and fought in every game for every minute. We had a clear playing style and given the individuals that were on the pitch arguably punched above our weight. We don't look interested half the time. We looked up for it first 10 minutes and were then woeful until they scored. We weren't even good after that we just fought more and showed more fight and emotion which goes against everything we're told they should be doing.

We're sleep walking into relegation, I don't think it will be this season but without a structural change it certainly will be next with a much bigger wage budget we may struggle to come back from. Off the pitch we're a joke, individuals promoted above their skillset and capability and no clear governance or leadership.

Who's to blame for us currently being shit in your opinion? And if we're so good, our players and playstyle much improved why aren't we top half? 

[Mikjizzle]

1 minute ago, hinsleburg said:

You're right, it was dramatic, the new matchday announcer is better than Downsy...

I stand by everything else, everything about this club is on a downwards trajectory and for you to not see it you must be part Ostrich with your head in the sand.

Cardiff were shit yesterday, absolutely shit and we made them look average. We're slower, more tedious, lose the ball in the wrong area more and don't ever look like scoring. How many open play goals have we scored this season? Even yesterday's goal I imagine Mcnally got a bollocking after for being that high up the pitch.

This stage last season we had a crazy amount of injuries but we had a team that worked their socks off and fought in every game for every minute. We had a clear playing style and given the individuals that were on the pitch arguably punched above our weight. We don't look interested half the time. We looked up for it first 10 minutes and were then woeful until they scored. We weren't even good after that we just fought more and showed more fight and emotion which goes against everything we're told they should be doing.

We're sleep walking into relegation, I don't think it will be this season but without a structural change it certainly will be next with a much bigger wage budget we may struggle to come back from. Off the pitch we're a joke, individuals promoted above their skillset and capability and no clear governance or leadership.

Who's to blame for us currently being shit in your opinion? And if we're so good, our players and playstyle much improved why aren't we top half? 

I just think it's an incredibly tough/competitive league, with fine margins. We are basically a couple of goals from people thinking we are doing alright this season? ie if Armstrong scored 2 of the many one on ones he has had this season we could have 6 more points and be in a play off place. With that in mind, I think we are trying to do the right things it's just very hard to put it all together, when you are facing other clubs with similar wage bill, similar players and good coaches. Everything you have said is massively over the top to me. 

[hinsleburg]

Just now, Mikjizzle said:

I just think it's an incredibly tough/competitive league, with fine margins. We are basically a couple of goals from people thinking we are doing alright this season? ie if Armstrong scored 2 of the many one on ones he has had this season we could have 6 more points and be in a play off place. With that in mind, I think we are trying to do the right things it's just very hard to put it all together, when you are facing other clubs with similar wage bill, similar players and good coaches. Everything you have said is massively over the top to me. 

We're also a couple of goals conceded away from being in the Relegation Zone? 

Enough time has now elapsed on Manning's (and Tinnion if you want) time in charge to stop dealing with If's and But's and look at actual facts. We are in a worse state than we were this stage last season (according to another thread), we have spent more money and are spending more on wages. That is indefensible and I'm not sure how that can be disputed, as a result heads should roll

[AppyDAZE]

31 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Well Cardiff may have surprised you, but Liam should have known what to expect… didn’t look like he did though did it? Both teams looked decent?? Bloody hell… And if you’ve not seen a bad team so far this season then you’ll really enjoy the Leeds game, they’ll look like Brazil.

 

Yeah, hopefully ALAN Brazil.

[Mikjizzle]

1 minute ago, hinsleburg said:

We're also a couple of goals conceded away from being in the Relegation Zone? 

Enough time has now elapsed on Manning's (and Tinnion if you want) time in charge to stop dealing with If's and But's and look at actual facts. We are in a worse state than we were this stage last season (according to another thread), we have spent more money and are spending more on wages. That is indefensible and I'm not sure how that can be disputed, as a result heads should roll

Exactly - fine margins. But if you look at the xg (which I don't fully understand myself as I've not read about it properly), we should be higher up than we are, not further down. 

Also I didn't think Pearson should have been sacked when he was either, so I don't think Manning should be, as I can see progress in lots of areas on the pitch. I'd still rather us give a manager a decent shot each season. If we are still where we are at Christmas then fair enough, looks like he can't get us the results. 

[bexhill reds]

4 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

I just think it's an incredibly tough/competitive league, with fine margins. We are basically a couple of goals from people thinking we are doing alright this season? ie if Armstrong scored 2 of the many one on ones he has had this season we could have 6 more points and be in a play off place. With that in mind, I think we are trying to do the right things it's just very hard to put it all together, when you are facing other clubs with similar wage bill, similar players and good coaches. Everything you have said is massively over the top to me. 

Let's just see what position we are in after the next 6 games, we've got Stoke, Boro, Leeds, Sheff U, Norwich and Preston. I reckon we'll be fortunate to get 2 points out of that lot based on our form thus far.

At least previous managers made us competitive, the current one has had time and cash spunked on his players and shown nothing for it. Manning is only taking us one way and it'll be a relegation fight from December.

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

Exactly - fine margins. But if you look at the xg (which I don't fully understand myself as I've not read about it properly), we should be higher up than we are, not further down. 

Also I didn't think Pearson should have been sacked when he was either, so I don't think Manning should be, as I can see progress in lots of areas on the pitch. I'd still rather us give a manager a decent shot each season. If we are still where we are at Christmas then fair enough, looks like he can't get us the results. 

Yeah that's where I am.

I'm not even sure if there's any point changing manager mid-season even if we're lower mid table come January.

But if Manning fails this season, then you replace him, so long as there is a genuine candidate.

Whoever comes in next is guaranteed to split opinion on OTIB and be persistently debated, that I do know!

[Mr Popodopolous]

43 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

ie if Armstrong scored 2 of the many one on ones he has had this season we could have 6 more points and be in a play off place.

How does two one on ones equate to 6 more points?

Somewhere between 2 and 4 surely?

If you mean the losses, improved GD but no better off points wise.

Edited October 7 by Mr Popodopolous

[hinsleburg]

31 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

Exactly - fine margins. But if you look at the xg (which I don't fully understand myself as I've not read about it properly), we should be higher up than we are, not further down. 

Also I didn't think Pearson should have been sacked when he was either, so I don't think Manning should be, as I can see progress in lots of areas on the pitch. I'd still rather us give a manager a decent shot each season. If we are still where we are at Christmas then fair enough, looks like he can't get us the results. 

I'm also an advocate of giving managers time but I think he's had it now.

By Christmas we could be in a relegation battle, last season was written off by the board in the summer by their lack of investment and support. We were told it was the Managers fault, the squad was there and this season will be better... That's clearly not the case (which many called out at the time) so we may as well write this season off as well.

[Mikjizzle]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How does two one on ones equate to 6 more points?

Somewhere between 2 and 4 surely?

If you mean the losses, improved GD but no better off points wise.

yeah sorry - bad maths from me. I was referring to 2 of the draws becoming wins. Still same idea in terms of having 4 more points though. 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah that's where I am.

I'm not even sure if there's any point changing manager mid-season even if we're lower mid table come January.

But if Manning fails this season, then you replace him, so long as there is a genuine candidate.

Whoever comes in next is guaranteed to split opinion on OTIB and be persistently debated, that I do know!

Lower mid table is failure.  Why would you wait til the end of season?  I’m staggered that you take such a blasé approach.  I know you want him to succeed (so do I btw), but you cut your losses once you decide, not wait.

Its really quite simple:

If board think he’s still ok, then he stays

if board think he’s failed or failing and won’t recover, you sack

+++++

Different opinions on OTIB is not a reason to not do something.

Edited October 7 by Davefevs

[Capman]

46 minutes ago, Mikjizzle said:

I just think it's an incredibly tough/competitive league, with fine margins. We are basically a couple of goals from people thinking we are doing alright this season? ie if Armstrong scored 2 of the many one on ones he has had this season we could have 6 more points and be in a play off place. With that in mind, I think we are trying to do the right things it's just very hard to put it all together, when you are facing other clubs with similar wage bill, similar players and good coaches. Everything you have said is massively over the top to me. 

And if my uncle had been born without a thingy he would be my aunt. What ifs are pointless, we are where we are because the scores count the misses don’t. If a couple of opposition strikers had not missed clear cut chances we could be in the bottom three. We have a season where the manager has been allowed to spend serious amounts of money (for the first time in years). We should be easily in the top ten and should be dissatisfied with anything below 6th. Where we are is simply unacceptable. 

[mozo]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Lower mid table is failure.  Why would you wait til the end of season?  I’m staggered that you take such a blasé approach.  I know you want him to succeed (so do I btw), but you cut your losses once you decide, not wait.

Its really quite simple:

If board think he’s still ok, then he stays

if board think he’s failed or failing and won’t recover, you sack

+++++

Different opinions on OTIB is not a reason to not do something.

Yep, I agree that lower mid table is a failure. No debate there.

But to be lower mid table in January is failing, not failed.

Sacking a manager before they have failed is making a subjective prediction that failure is virtually guaranteed. 

Some fans made that decision about Manning in January. Some in March. Some just now. We all have a different tolerance.

My preference for any manager is to let them see out a season (LJ and Nige should have too). 

It gives them a chance to find form later in the season. The old clichés about marathon and sprint etc.

For me, a mid season sacking should be reserved for extreme circumstances whereby you're trying to arrest a catastrophe, not whereby you're drawing too many games and might miss your target of 9th (for a very simplified example).

A lot of managers are sacked mid season because the board just loses patience or thinks a new manager bounce might push the club back into contention. 

I'm not convinced the new manager bounce is an actual thing, anyway.

Now, if we did get dragged into the relegation gutter, then yeah boot him out. But I'm not expecting that to happen. I think we have enough quality, spirit and motivation to not find ourselves down there. Could be wrong, but let's see.

The important thing for me is that if we decide that Manning has to go, that there has to be a plan for a qualified replacement.

If there is a standout candidate mid season, then sometimes you have to take that opportunity.

But I'm totally opposed to sacking Manning because we're tracking below target, if it just means a caretaker for a few games, a frantic recruitment process, a change of tactics without time to work on them properly and the unsettling nature of mid season change for the players.

If you told me that Robins has gone stale at Coventry and is ready for a new challenge, then maybe I'd be persuaded. 

But replacing Manning with a punt just sounds like out of the frying pan and in to the fire, and could set us back further.

 

[Davefevs]

@mozo your preference or my preference is irrelevant.  You don’t wait for a business to actually fail before reacting.  It is bonkers to suggest anything of the sort.

You have a set of “tools” (whatever they are) to warn you, and you take action.  That might be keep and support him, it might be sack him.  You DO NOT WAIT.

We both want LM to succeed, because that is what we want as City fans.  But you are letting that cloud your judgement on when our Hierarchy should act.  And to confirm, “act” might not be sack.  But you are saying they should do nothing.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@mozo your preference or my preference is irrelevant.  You don’t wait for a business to actually fail before reacting.  It is bonkers to suggest anything of the sort.

You have a set of “tools” (whatever they are) to warn you, and you take action.  That might be keep and support him, it might be sack him.  You DO NOT WAIT.

We both want LM to succeed, because that is what we want as City fans.  But you are letting that cloud your judgement on when our Hierarchy should act.  And to confirm, “act” might not be sack.  But you are saying they should do nothing.

Indeed - I’ve worked in risk management and the first principles are that you identify what your risks are and control them. What you don’t do is wait for your house to burn down and then install a fire alarm.

If the club feel that Liam Manning will not achieve minimum objectives having been provided suitable resources to do so - or worse, has potential to significantly underachieve to the point of a relegation battle - they should, as with any manager, sack at the point they make that conclusion - mid season or not.

And what we as a forum think is largely irrelevant to that. Liam Mannning, Brian Tinnion and Jon Lansdown should not give two shits what Silvio Dante says, or to the reaction if they sack Manning - the same they shouldn’t when they sacked Pearson - as long as they can justify the decision in the best interest of the club in their opinion.

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@mozo your preference or my preference is irrelevant.  You don’t wait for a business to actually fail before reacting.  It is bonkers to suggest anything of the sort.

You have a set of “tools” (whatever they are) to warn you, and you take action.  That might be keep and support him, it might be sack him.  You DO NOT WAIT.

We both want LM to succeed, because that is what we want as City fans.  But you are letting that cloud your judgement on when our Hierarchy should act.  And to confirm, “act” might not be sack.  But you are saying they should do nothing.

Was my explanation not clear?

I didn't say, let's wait until we fail.

I described how we should wait until we are certain that we are going to fail against a 46 game target. 

I didn't say we should do nothing. I said we should only sack him if we have a good plan for recruitment.

I think that's just rational. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Lower mid table is failure.  Why would you wait til the end of season?  I’m staggered that you take such a blasé approach.  I know you want him to succeed (so do I btw), but you cut your losses once you decide, not wait.

Its really quite simple:

If board think he’s still ok, then he stays

if board think he’s failed or failing and won’t recover, you sack

+++++

Different opinions on OTIB is not a reason to not do something.

Exactly. It’s the point at which you believe the guy is either not learning or even worse, cannot learn, that you say thanks for your efforts but you aren’t for us. For me he has a few more games to show that he can impact a game more than his opposite number. At present he is getting tactically “done” far too often.

What the hierarchy SHOULD be doing is identifying an exit strategy NOW and if it isn’t needed then that’s great for everyone. If it is needed then we should be in a position to move swiftly not have six weeks of vigorous recruitment to bring in a Gary Rowett.

[Woofyourkipper]

3 hours ago, Mikjizzle said:

To be honest, Cardiff were much better than I was anticipating. I thought both teams looked decent. I don't think I've seen us play a team that looks bad this season, usually a few teams look really disorganised. There seems to be about 15 almost identical teams. 

I still think our level is is considerably better this season than last season or before Manning came in - so I still think our basics on the pitch are much better, particularly on the ball. But admittedly it doesn't seem to be achieving better results at the moment. 

I also think it's very dramatic to say we have gone backwards in every area of club? There has been a shuffle around high up but we are still making the same types of signings as before - I'm not sure what difference any of that has made. You can say you don't like Manning and should have someone different but other than that the club is basically the same - we just have a manager that you don't like. 

I’ll have a pint of whatever your drinking

jesus wept

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Lower mid table is failure.  Why would you wait til the end of season?  I’m staggered that you take such a blasé approach.  I know you want him to succeed (so do I btw), but you cut your losses once you decide, not wait.

Its really quite simple:

If board think he’s still ok, then he stays

if board think he’s failed or failing and won’t recover, you sack

+++++

Different opinions on OTIB is not a reason to not do something.

My feeling - for what it's worth - is that for the Board we're somewhere like we were 18/19 under LJ. Top 6 isn't an absolute must this season, but they'll want to be convinced that they see enough this season to give them confidence that we can achieve it next. And next will be top 6 or bust.

I think that in their minds the jury will be out between those two scenarios you suggest, and they'll make that first call later in the season - unless things go truly pear shaped.

The plus for LM (compared to LJ) is that there's no obvious scenario where they pull the rug out from under him to make a fast buck, as they did will LJ (Webster, Brownhill). But on the negative side for him, I just have the sense that they'd be more brutal if the opportunity to line up a preferred alternative came along.

As I say, purely my feeling based on absolutely nothing more than having enjoyed/endured quarter of a century of Lansdown's ownership!!

But I completely agree with you that at the end of the day it's the Board's call (which is obvious) and that we need to accept that (which, it seems, some don't!)

And so, in the meantime, (and back to the point of the thread), it's that endless relentless negativity that gets me - over something completely outside our control. Criticism, fine. Analysis, fine, Different viewpoints, fine. But some of the name calling and the demands that 'these people....get out of my club' smacks of nothing more than playground petulance at not getting my way. And endless, repetitious posts that just tell us for the 1000th time that poster x wants LM sacked - well that just smacks a bit of self indulgence, and that pointless negativity doesn't help anyone, certainly not the club we all support.

 

Edited October 7 by italian dave

[lenred]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

Was my explanation not clear?

I didn't say, let's wait until we fail.

I described how we should wait until we are certain that we are going to fail against a 46 game target. 

I didn't say we should do nothing. I said we should only sack him if we have a good plan for recruitment.

I think that's just rational. 

What are you seeing atm that is making you think we are on track for a top 6 finish - the stated aim? I’d love to know as I’m evidently missing it

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

What are you seeing atm that is making you think we are on track for a top 6 finish - the stated aim? I’d love to know as I’m evidently missing it

I don't think top 6 is the target, do you?

[lenred]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

I don't think top 6 is the target, do you?

Yes I do.  It was the stated aim of the Board.  

[fisherrich]

Survival is the target and nothing more. It is gonna get toxic in a few weeks time.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, mozo said:

I don't think top 6 is the target, do you?

 

10 minutes ago, mozo said:

I don't think top 6 is the target, do you?

Was it?

From memory.. 

*Tinnion- an extra 10 Points he said back in March.

*Tinnion (again)- Senior Reds, on the eve or right at start of Season top 10 and improvement.

Now last October/November, the two wise men plus Marshall etc that was a very different story.

Apologies if there is something I've missed but.

Either way we are really below par unless the target was Lower Midtable or survival.

Edited October 7 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sir Geoff]

7 minutes ago, mozo said:

I don't think top 6 is the target, do you?

"10 more points." Is that not 6th in some seasons ?

Should actually be more than 10 considering the money spent.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It would be nice if Manning but even more so Jon Lansdown, Tinnion and maybe even Marshall came our and said..

*We just finish here/on X Points or we have failed and 

I don't mean an easy to hit objections either but a realistic one relative to starting point and money spent.

*Top 10 or out kinda thing.

[mozo]

12 minutes ago, lenred said:

Yes I do.  It was the stated aim of the Board.  

 

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

"10 more points." Is that not 6th in some seasons ?

Should actually be more than 10 considering the money spent.

Top 6 wasn't stated as the aim for this season?

[ooRya]

8 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Top 6 wasn't stated as the aim for this season?

If top 6 isn't the aim, then what's the bloody point.

[lenred]

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Top 6 wasn't stated as the aim for this season?

Where have they said that it isn’t any more?  

[mozo]

8 minutes ago, ooRya said:

If top 6 isn't the aim, then what's the bloody point.

Okay, but if top 6 is the aim and we are going to sack every Bristol City manager that looks unlikely to achieve that early in their first full season, expect a lot of chopping and changing!

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

Where have they said that it isn’t any more?  

Hasn't top 6 been replaced in pre-season with 'progress'?

Edited October 7 by mozo

[lenred]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

Okay, but if top 6 is the aim and we are going to sack every Bristol City manager that looks unlikely to achieve that early in their first full season, expect a lot of chopping and changing!

Hasn't top 6 been replaced in pre-season with 'progress'?

Not that I’ve heard or read.   But we’re going in circles…..it was the stated aim for sacking Pearson.  A year later we are worse.   Those are the facts.   

[mozo]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Not that I’ve heard or read.   But we’re going in circles…..it was the stated aim for sacking Pearson.  A year later we are worse.   Those are the facts.   

We're definitely going round in circles when people keep going back to that top 6 statement.

One day I'll be lying on my deathbed and before drawing my last breath, I'll log on to OTIB one last time, and there will still be comments on there saying "30 years ago, when they sacked Nige, they said top 6, and look at us now..."

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

 

Top 6 wasn't stated as the aim for this season?

To be clear….promotion was the stated aim - this season.  Stated by all the hierarchy.  Promotion is achieved by finishing in the top 2, or 3rd to 6th and winning the playoffs.  Top 6 is not the target, you are right…promotion is.

However, and I have no issues with this, that is a tough target to achieve, and not getting promoted does not mean Manning must be sacked / failure.  They have also given a sensible “meeting expectations” comment…broadly speaking, “be in the mix for promotion”, which starts to show alignment with Tinnion’s 10 points more.  I think most of us think somewhere around the top 6 with 73 points (+/- 2 or 3) would be good…which means you’ve got to be in the top-10 at worst.

Anything worse than that is underperforming, unless there is some serious mitigating factor.

At current pace, we are underperforming.  We now wait to see whether the “Hierarchy Monitoring Tool” has kicked into life yet.  My gut feel is no it hasn’t, we are 2 points off 10th, so it’s carry on.