Pathway for Academy...now closed

[extonsred]

Not very encouraging for the players is it, poor reflection on the Academy n disappointing for us fans.

If there has been previous post specifically on this apologies!!...but hugely important for the club in terms of future income!

[Galley is our king]

You are absolutely right! Not just finance though, improvement of the first team.

When Gary Probert was Academy director, Tinnion was loans and then pathway manager, so how ironic that he now feels the need to have no academy players anywhere near the first team!

I firmly believe Tinnion is the man that must be sacked FIRST.

Give Manning a crack without him and get in someone who can spot a player in the recruitment team, after all, who remembers the "magnificent seven" .....

[bearded_red]

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

[David Brent]

People will argue that we don’t have the level of players in the academy that our previous management team had. We know that is nonsense. 

I hope the question gets raised at the next fans forum.

[Cidre Monita]

There was a conveyor belt of academy talent coming through under NP. That’s one of the reasons I was surprised the Lansdowns couldn’t stomach him as he was making them millions having developed the likes of Conway, Scott, and to a lesser extent Semenyo. Who are we going to sell for mega bucks under the current regime? No one, that’s who. I’m afraid it’s a classic sign of a failing manager under pressure to not pick and develop youngsters, thus cutting off any incoming funds to reinvest. Stephen Lansdown may wish to reflect on that. 

[petehinton]

7 minutes ago, David Brent said:

People will argue that we don’t have the level of players in the academy that our previous management team had. We know that is nonsense. 

I hope the question gets raised at the next fans forum.

I do think the meeting of Tinnion really bigging up some of the 21s & 18s, and manning saying none of them are anywhere near ready would be quite funny. 

[Sir Geoff]

Jamie Knight Lebel, sent out on loan to gain experience. We then sign an average CB for nearly £2 million and give him a 4 year contract . Pathway blocked. Think I'd be pretty naffed off if I was JKL.

Same for Seb PH. May not be good enough but we'll never find out now, will we. Would he have done any worse than what we've seen from our forwards so far.

Despite what some people say we have 3 or 4 U21's that are actually quite good and should be given a few chances in the first team squad 

 

[Silvio Dante]

If only someone on here had done the hard yards over our head coaches usage of academy players across his prior roles to confirm it’s not about the lack of quality in the academy, it’s about the coaches willingness to use it.

Oh, they did.

Well, if only the board of directors had looked at the coach before they hired him to see if he would have any willingness to use academies and therefore ascertain if he was a fit for the club ethos.

Oh, they didn’t.

 

Funny that.

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

What a wonderful post from a clearly passionate Bristol City fan.

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

If only someone on here had done the hard yards over our head coaches usage of academy players across his prior roles to confirm it’s not about the lack of quality in the academy, it’s about the coaches willingness to use it.

Oh, they did.

Well, if only the board of directors had looked at the coach before they hired him to see if he would have any willingness to use academies and therefore ascertain if he was a fit for the club ethos.

Oh, they didn’t.

 

Funny that.

Academy Coach now 1st Team Head-Coach = play academy players!  Survey says “X”.

Academy Director (and other Academy focussed roles) now Technical Director = will now drive that pathway with influence!  Survey says “X”.

And we hear about principles and behaviours….give me strength.  Career focussed.  That’s not a bad thing per se, but forgetting where you’ve came from, is.

[David Brent]

15 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Jamie Knight Lebel, sent out on loan to gain experience. We then sign an average CB for nearly £2 million and give him a 4 year contract . Pathway blocked. Think I'd be pretty naffed off if I was JKL.

Same for Seb PH. May not be good enough but we'll never find out now, will we. Would he have done any worse than what we've seen from our forwards so far.

Despite what some people say we have 3 or 4 U21's that are actually quite good and should be given a few chances in the first team squad 

 

The only argument for it would be if we were actually challenging for playoffs with these signings. 

[Red Billy]

We seem to have a new long term plan every 18 months or so.

[BS3 Ark at Ee]

Give Manning the injury ravaged squad Pearson had when he was sacked and we would’ve been relegated……Pearson had us firmly in the top half of the table! This is why the board and Tinnion need to take responsibility for their latest cock up 

[Odd socks]

Tinnon was biging it up at the fans forum last year , about an academy player who clubs in the premier league were interested in.  Where this lad now ?.

[RollsRoyce]

1 hour ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

This is one of the best posts ever on OTIB. It encapsulates everything I feel, and I know large numbers of others would concur.

I would much rather watch an academy player trying to break through, sink or swim on occasions, but with real bite and passion, as it is their big moment, than yet another external signing that makes no sense. If we are going to be mid table, then  I really prefer and enjoyed the academy story, it was fascinating and felt authentic. The crowd had also bought into it, with patience and understanding. I was conned, I thought that for 20 years, Steve Lansdown said that this was his dream, the academy path way,  the one major desire he had for "his" football club. But he was lying. He had it, in spades, and threw it away. 

We were on a great road, then one of either Sl or JL pulled the handbrake, did a 180 turn, and set off on yet another direction. 

Why they cannot comprehend why a number, who knows how many, are frustrated, angry, defeated and astonished at what is going on today says everything about how they do not understand football, fans, and integrity. 

Great post @bearded_red

[Port Red]

15 minutes ago, Odd socks said:

Tinnon was biging it up at the fans forum last year , about an academy player who clubs in the premier league were interested in.  Where this lad now ?.

Brighton

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Jamie Knight Lebel, sent out on loan to gain experience. We then sign an average CB for nearly £2 million and give him a 4 year contract . Pathway blocked. Think I'd be pretty naffed off if I was JKL.

Same for Seb PH. May not be good enough but we'll never find out now, will we. Would he have done any worse than what we've seen from our forwards so far.

Despite what some people say we have 3 or 4 U21's that are actually quite good and should be given a few chances in the first team squad 

 

Could do with him now tbh. Not sure what Sincs has over him aside from a bit more pace. It definitely isn't a poachers instinct...

[STOCKWOOD RED]

The first team players we had were never good enough to take us forward, we now have a much stronger well balanced pool of First team players, if the youngsters are good enough hopefully they will get the chance to play, the lads out on loan are doing ok, but not always in the starting eleven of the lower ranked teams, let’s get off the clubs back and give the guys a chance

Edited October 5 by STOCKWOOD RED

[RedM]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

I do think the meeting of Tinnion really bigging up some of the 21s & 18s, and manning saying none of them are anywhere near ready would be quite funny. 

Wasn't Tins really bigging up the next crop that were coming through around this time last year at the fans forum meeting. I can't remember which player they were talking about but Tins said something like, "well if you think he is good, just wait until you see the ones"

Then Pearson left so I guess we will never know. A lot has changed in a year. 

[One Team]

This surely has to be a key question for the Fans Forum. 

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

People will argue that we don’t have the level of players in the academy that our previous management team had. We know that is nonsense. 

I hope the question gets raised at the next fans forum.

The level of players is down to the level of talent that the club scouts.  In saying that, where has this come from as I can't see anything about it anywhere.

Edited October 5 by BigTone

[frenchred]

30 minutes ago, Odd socks said:

Tinnon was biging it up at the fans forum last year , about an academy player who clubs in the premier league were interested in.  Where this lad now ?.

At a premier league club!!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, RedM said:

Wasn't Tins really bigging up the next crop that were coming through around this time last year at the fans forum meeting. I can't remember which player they were talking about but Tins said something like, "well if you think he is good, just wait until you see the ones"

Then Pearson left so I guess we will never know. A lot has changed in a year. 

1 minute ago, One Team said:

This surely has to be a key question for the Fans Forum. 

Yep.

I think someone should ask about Henry Kasvosve too….suspect his transfer to Brighton will happen on 9th Nov - his 17th birthday.  I don’t even mind if the answer is “sorry, we cannot comment on that”.

Anecdotally there were promises given to him that he’d be with our first team at Xmas if he stayed.  Who would guarantee that?

[Back of the Dolman]

8 minutes ago, STOCKWOOD RED said:

The first team players we had were never good enough to take us forward, we now have a much stronger well balanced pool of First team players, if the youngsters are good enough hopefully they will get the chance to play, the lads out on loan are doing ok, but not always in the starting eleven of the lower ranked teams, let’s get off the clubs back and give the guys a chance

I think this is where I stand on it at the moment.

Surely if the club thought they had players ready to step into the first team then we wouldn’t of spent the money we have.

I’m also not sure it’s fair on a youngster to throw them into this squad at the moment, the team isn’t firing on all cylinders and for me there’s a massive lack of leadership on the pitch and those are two points that won’t help integrate an inexperienced youngster into the first team at the moment.

Good loans with the pressure off of them to get experience and start learning their trade, and then if they’re good enough then let’s get them in the first team squad and give them a chance to succeed.

[redsquirrel]

bearded red,take a bow. post of the week for me

can i just add how far back will it set those lads that were already featuring to get kicked out and re-entry blocked?,( through no fault of their own).

if i was one of those,id want out at the first opportunity

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That’s not a bad thing per se, but forgetting where you’ve came from, is.

Don't be fooled by the boots that I got
I'm still, I'm still Brian from the HPC

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Don't be fooled by the boots that I got
I'm still, I'm still Brian from the HPC

What inspired you….a big ass?

[RollsRoyce]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

bearded red,take a bow. post of the week for me

can i just add how far back will it set those lads that were already featuring to get kicked out and re-entry blocked?,( through no fault of their own).

if i was one of those,id want out at the first opportunity

Taxi for Pecover 

[David Brent]

3 hours ago, BigTone said:

The level of players is down to the level of talent that the club scouts.  In saying that, where has this come from as I can't see anything about it anywhere.

Where has what come from?

[BobBobBobbin]

5 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

Everything I've said and want to say on the pathway. Perfect, BR. 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, David Brent said:

Where has what come from?

Whatever is to do with the Academy.  Equally maybe I am misunderstanding.

[Superjack]

5 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

[GrahamC]

5 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

Agree with every word, nothing to add.

[BS3 Ark at Ee]

6 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

In a nutshell, they haven’t got a clue what they’re doing! Let’s try this approach…ah shit that’s not working let’s try something else!…..etc etc 

[REDOXO]

6 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

 

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Agree with every word, nothing to add.

Me too! 
 

The last bloke was sacked because results weren’t good enough, playing players that are now on loan down the league. 
 

This guy with no experience of being responsible for big money signings gets the residue of Semenyo Scott and Conway money, players developed by the previous regime. 
 

You couldn’t make it up. But perhaps you could as we have been here before. 

[chinapig]

6 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Jamie Knight Lebel, sent out on loan to gain experience

Last season a certain member of the hierarchy told Nigel he should have played Jamie instead of Andy King. Now he isn't even good enough for the bench it seems.

I'm sure Tinnion did an in-depth analysis that changed his mind gave Manning whatever he wanted.

[Tony Tootle]

8 hours ago, David Brent said:

The only argument for it would be if we were actually challenging for playoffs with these signings. 

This is exactly what I said to another long suffering fan the other day. If we are going to continue just treading water in this league then I’d rather watch a team with a few home grown prospects actually playing in it.

[Baldyman]

Bottom line for us is NO academy pathway = massive financial issues for the club having sold over £60m worth of academy talent over the past 4 years . It’ll be this that sees Manning and/or Tinnion sacked before results on the pitch ! 

[Dr Balls]

The bigger worry beyond the lack of academy players breaking through under Manning is that even during LJ’s time, we made decent profits on Bryan and Reid, plus big fees for the likes of Kodjia, Flint and Pack. Not sure I can see any player in Wednesday's starting 11 (other than one we don’t yet own!) for which any club would pay us £5M for. That isn’t going to help with the FFP/PSR.

[Graham76]

Manning and Tinnion are incompatible. 

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

Agree with every word you say BR.

But, for me, it’s the first the first couple of sentences of that penultimate paragraph that is at the heart of this. Because I think that competing for top 6 is now the expectation of the powers that be.

Those expectations won’t be determined after ten games, as they are on the forum. I think the minimum will be about serious evidence of it this season and then a serious challenge next. Based on nothing more than my instinct after 25 years of Lansdown’s ownership!

And, as you’ve acknowledged,  that’s one of the two significant differences with NP’s reign. The expectations then were about cost savings and about survival. NP did a brilliant job of achieving those expectations, but there’s no doubt that they give greater scope for the risks associated with opportunities for academy youngsters.

The second difference is that NP was fortunate to have the three most outstanding academy products of the past decade at his disposal. I don’t think our academy, any more than any other, is a “production line”. If only it were that simple. There are ups and downs, good years and less good. Of course those products still have to be nurtured, and there’s no doubt NP did that, but the reality is that Semenyo was already a first team player and pretty much everyone had been talking about Scott and Conway as even better prospects.

And I just don’t think we’ve had that since. I’ve seen the U21s a number of times over the past year and there’s been no-one who’s stood out for me: I’m sure others have a lot greater knowledge and I bow to that - but I’ve yet to hear who the Scotts and the Semenyos currently being blocked are.

So, yes, agree with all you say, I remember that game too, I’d love to see us bring players through and be able to repeat that, but a) I just don’t feel we have youngsters of that quality right now and b) I’m slightly less convinced than you of the tolerance of fans (least of all on here) with poor performances in any circumstance! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Bottom line for us is NO academy pathway = massive financial issues for the club having sold over £60m worth of academy talent over the past 4 years . It’ll be this that sees Manning and/or Tinnion sacked before results on the pitch ! 

 

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

The bigger worry beyond the lack of academy players breaking through under Manning is that even during LJ’s time, we made decent profits on Bryan and Reid, plus big fees for the likes of Kodjia, Flint and Pack. Not sure I can see any player in Wednesday's starting 11 (other than one we don’t yet own!) for which any club would pay us £5M for. That isn’t going to help with the FFP/PSR.

Optimism wise...could be misplaced but an optimistic slant on this would be.

We have learnt the lessons of before and are running at a level whereby we are at or around the 3 Year Upper Loss Limit but never beyond, and as such a strong % of Profit on Players especially Academy Players can be reinvested when it arises.

[Mr Popodopolous]

If I'm wrong then we've learnt nothing as a Club and Janaury 2026 barring promotion we'll need to start downsizing again, Summer 2026 at best.

[formerly known as ivan]

10 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Jamie Knight Lebel, sent out on loan to gain experience. We then sign an average CB for nearly £2 million and give him a 4 year contract . Pathway blocked. Think I'd be pretty naffed off if I was JKL.

Same for Seb PH. May not be good enough but we'll never find out now, will we. Would he have done any worse than what we've seen from our forwards so far.

Despite what some people say we have 3 or 4 U21's that are actually quite good and should be given a few chances in the first team squad 

 

This is the one for me. JK-L surely should have been the answer to our defensive crisis. He has earned his first senior international call up with his form for Crewe. One that under the previous management would have been given a chance. Would have saved us £2m as well! £2m!!!!

This one in particular leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth. What hope is there for anyone trying to break through from the academy?

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Graham76 said:

Manning and Tinnion are incompatible. 

Anyone and Tinnion are incompatible. 

Apart from the Lansdowns.

[Malago]

What a load of utter Barry.

is anyone suggesting Liam wouldn’t pick a Lloyd Kelly, a Bobby Reid, a Antoine Semenyo, a Alex Scott or even a Tommy Conway.

You’ve got JKL at Crewe, who will possibly take Naismith’s squad place next season, and Billy Phillips, as the only realistic academy prospects who look good enough for championship football.

The rest are miles off and the moment.
 

 

[DaveF]

12 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

A wonderful summary of why I'm feeling so detached from the club.

[RollsRoyce]

11 minutes ago, Malago said:

What a load of utter Barry.

is anyone suggesting Liam wouldn’t pick a Lloyd Kelly, a Bobby Reid, a Antoine Semenyo, a Alex Scott or even a Tommy Conway.

You’ve got JKL at Crewe, who will possibly take Naismith’s squad place next season, and Billy Phillips, as the only realistic academy prospects who look good enough for championship football.

The rest are miles off and the moment.
 

 

What nonsense based on hindsight . You are talking that in my view . 

[Malago]

4 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

What nonsense based on hindsight . You are talking that in my view . 

Which academy prospects should be in the 1st team squad that aren’t?

[Malago]

1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:

This is the one for me. JK-L surely should have been the answer to our defensive crisis. He has earned his first senior international call up with his form for Crewe. One that under the previous management would have been given a chance. Would have saved us £2m as well! £2m!!!!

This one in particular leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth. What hope is there for anyone trying to break through from the academy?

My guess is he’s being lined up to replace Naismith in the 1st team squad next season.

Edited October 6 by Malago

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, Malago said:

My guess is he’s being lined up to replace Naismith in the 1st team squad next season.

5 centre backs.

Bit unwieldy...

Vyner, Dickie, McNally, Atkinson..J-K-L?

Plus Naismith can offer something that no others can (on paper), slotting between the deepest midfield and a back 3 in-game. Can J-K-L do similar? Unsure who else can.

[Malago]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

5 centre backs.

Bit unwieldy...

Vyner, Dickie, McNally, Atkinson..J-K-L?

Plus Naismith can offer something that no others can (on paper), slotting between the deepest midfield and a back 3 in-game. Can J-K-L do similar? Unsure who else can.

Stand to be corrected, but believe Naismith is OOC next season.  Can’t see the club renewing.

[glynriley]

https://www.bathcityfc.com/player-news-joe-james/

The lad who made his full debut at Cardiff last season. 
 

All change…!

Edited October 6 by glynriley

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, Malago said:

Stand to be corrected, but believe Naismith is OOC next season.  Can’t see the club renewing.

He is, and Idk it's not so much about individual it just all seems a bit disjointed in some ways to me.

[Dr Balls]

Let’s be honest here. Manning is going to want the very best players he thinks he can wring out of Tinnion and Lansdown. He is a young, relatively inexperienced coach who has been set targets to achieve whether we believe in them or not. McNally was a panic buy for a short term injury issue at centre back, with both Dickie and Atkinson out. Manning is not going to take a risk on an academy player in that position because for all the talk of needing “time on the grass”, the reality is that he needs a better quality of player to achieve similar results to the previous experienced manager was getting having to play academy players. Plus we know that his affiliation to any club is purely temporary and transactional, (he will go to “bigger and better” as soon as that opportunity arises) so considering the club’s long term is not his issue, especially in the insecure world of football management. In that basis, short term splashing the cash on an average Championship player is always going to be his default over taking a chance on a young academy product. What he does or doesn’t do with Earthy could also be quite revealing, assuming that Earthy is fit again.

[johnbytheriver]

its only a matter of time before we get reiegated! 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=its just a matter of time videos&view=detail&mid=42

Edited October 6 by johnbytheriver

[Kid in the Riot]

9 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

What nonsense based on hindsight . You are talking that in my view . 

 

9 hours ago, Malago said:

Which academy prospects should be in the 1st team squad that aren’t?

Although it feels counterintuitive, I think you both make good points. 

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, Malago said:

What a load of utter Barry.

is anyone suggesting Liam wouldn’t pick a Lloyd Kelly, a Bobby Reid, a Antoine Semenyo, a Alex Scott or even a Tommy Conway.

You’ve got JKL at Crewe, who will possibly take Naismith’s squad place next season, and Billy Phillips, as the only realistic academy prospects who look good enough for championship football.

The rest are miles off and the moment.
 

 

26 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Let’s be honest here. Manning is going to want the very best players he thinks he can wring out of Tinnion and Lansdown. He is a young, relatively inexperienced coach who has been set targets to achieve whether we believe in them or not. McNally was a panic buy for a short term injury issue at centre back, with both Dickie and Atkinson out. Manning is not going to take a risk on an academy player in that position because for all the talk of needing “time on the grass”, the reality is that he needs a better quality of player to achieve similar results to the previous experienced manager was getting having to play academy players. Plus we know that his affiliation to any club is purely temporary and transactional, (he will go to “bigger and better” as soon as that opportunity arises) so considering the club’s long term is not his issue, especially in the insecure world of football management. In that basis, short term splashing the cash on an average Championship player is always going to be his default over taking a chance on a young academy product. What he does or doesn’t do with Earthy could also be quite revealing, assuming that Earthy is fit again.

And this is what effectively closes the pathway.

The strategy of backfilling a first team squad with academy players is showing to be bollox. That came from Tinnion in March when he started talking about this summer’s recruitment plans.

I imagine the likes of SPH (wherever his actual ability level) having been told he’d get preseason with the first team saw what was actually gonna happen and chose to accept a loan with several clubs keen to secure his future.

JKL having played a couple of times, but largely sat on the bench, it is now decided he needs to get some experience of playing against league two players. Why wasn’t that option taken last January. And then we sign a non ball-playing CB. Okay I’ll accept there is probably some forward planning for Naismith leaving next summer.

I also understand that with a bigger first squad, Bell, Atkinson, Cornick not in it (Bell the only one injured) that the academy lads are not being used as much as they were in training either. So it’s not just match day but getting experience from training too.

It’s still a closing of the pathway whichever way you write it. I get the rationale for some of it, but there’s a longer term impact - squad investment. The less Scott, Semenyo, Conway players you have to sell, the better your inbound recruitment has to be to create transfer profit.

Short sighted!!!

Failure to follow a strategy. Because our hierarchy conveniently didn’t understand what it was and why.

 

[mozo]

Knight-Lebel seems to be the only serious option and I think there's enough doubt there.

The other big point here is if many fans aren't willing to be patient with Armstrong, would they be with Seb Palmer-Houlden, for example? 

Football fans are fickle. On one hand we want a pathway. On the other we want instant success.

[RollsRoyce]

53 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Although it feels counterintuitive, I think you both make good points. 

Because you have filled out your squad/bench with senior pros, you will never create the space and opportunity, it is taking the easy option. Youth players are inconsistent and need careful management and senior pros on the pitch to guide them. Now, with so many subs, it is inexcusable there is zero pathway or opportunity. 

You will hear forever "which player would.." It is the excuse that is always used; it is cheap, passive and the easy way out. Creating a genuine pathway needs bravery, careful management and structure, on and off the pitch to deliver it. 

Pecover , Kasvosve, JKL,  

[RedJim]

On 05/10/2024 at 12:06, bearded_red said:

What’s really galling is that when we’re up shit creek without a paddle the narrative becomes one where we’re blooding our own players and we’re doing things differently, and some of us fully buy into that. We’re asked to be patient as we rely on young players and we do just that.

Some of us accept some pretty poor performances with inexperienced players finding their feet at the level, we accept some defeats when a couple of injuries and a small squad has resulted in having to pick an extremely young team. We accept, and actually agree, with the stance of not bringing in expensive loans from the PL to develop their players when we could instead develop our own. We actually prefer a squad that we feel represents us rather than one full of journeymen that couldn’t pick out Bristol on a map.

Then, when it suits, all this goes out the window. They have to back this manager as otherwise the criticism will come to them and suddenly it’s raining tenners again. Suddenly it’s sign two players for the same position, spend a fee on a centre half that you don’t need, bring in a player purely to sit on the bench. We currently have 3 players out injured? And yet on a 9 man bench we still cant find one single space for one of our young players. 

Some may argue that for City to compete for the top six they need this larger squad of experienced imports rather than relying on our youngsters, and okay fine, maybe that’s true. But then you have to do that. If you’re exchanging mid table with Pearson’s squad for mid table with this squad, then I’m sorry there’s no contest. One of my favourite games of recent times was the WBA cup game just after Semenyo was sold, god knows how many academy players played that day, but it was loads and we played brilliantly. That seems a world away now.

You just feel like you’ve been had, you just can’t escape that we’re going round and round in circles endlessly repeating the same mistakes. People wonder why there’s negativity, people suggest there’s an overreaction to an underwhelming start to the season, well this may in part explain why.

You've articulated everything I feel about the club and our current situation, and so much better than I could do. I sometimes wonder if I'm being overly negative, and then I read this in black and white and it perfectly sums up how I (and clearly many others) feel.

[Davefevs]

55 minutes ago, mozo said:

Knight-Lebel seems to be the only serious option and I think there's enough doubt there.

The other big point here is if many fans aren't willing to be patient with Armstrong, would they be with Seb Palmer-Houlden, for example? 

Football fans are fickle. On one hand we want a pathway. On the other we want instant success.

I want both, and I think it’s achievable.  It’s about following a strategy.

We wanted a no 9 who was physical and could stretch the play.  You become ruthless in recruitment, you don’t buy both Armstrong and Mayulu who are different types of “big forwards”.  You buy one, you perhaps pay a bit more for a bit better and then you use Wells, Cornick, Bell (centrally if needed) and SPH.

I like both Armstrong and Mayulu, but one is playing 60 mins, the other 0 mins (or negligible mins).

At board level we need to follow the strategy and be ruthless in player acquisition, and also on deciding which academy players we are investing in once they get to 18,19, maybe 20.  You don’t have to make that black and white.

We need to tell our head-coach to develop what he has.  He had his cake, eaten it and then gone back for seconds.

53 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Because you have filled out your squad/bench with senior pros, you will never create the space and opportunity, it is taking the easy option. Youth players are inconsistent and need careful management and senior pros on the pitch to guide them. Now, with so many subs, it is inexcusable there is zero pathway or opportunity. 

You will hear forever "which player would.." It is the excuse that is always used; it is cheap, passive and the easy way out. Creating a genuine pathway needs bravery, careful management and structure, on and off the pitch to deliver it. 

Pecover , Kasvosve, JKL,  

As Tony Green on Bullseye would say “in one”.

Where is our Head-coach creating the next £20m transfer from, or even £9m transfer profit, or even £3.5m transfer profit from?

Not Scott Twine, certainly not Luke McNally.

Edited October 6 by Davefevs

[Kid in the Riot]

54 minutes ago, mozo said:

Knight-Lebel seems to be the only serious option and I think there's enough doubt there.

The other big point here is if many fans aren't willing to be patient with Armstrong, would they be with Seb Palmer-Houlden, for example? 

Football fans are fickle. On one hand we want a pathway. On the other we want instant success.

I think you could reasonably argue that SPH is still on the "pathway". He's going down the route of being loaned out to help his development, similar to the likes of Bryan, Reid and Semenyo.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

And this is what effectively closes the pathway.

The strategy of backfilling a first team squad with academy players is showing to be bollox. That came from Tinnion in March when he started talking about this summer’s recruitment plans.

I imagine the likes of SPH (wherever his actual ability level) having been told he’d get preseason with the first team saw what was actually gonna happen and chose to accept a loan with several clubs keen to secure his future.

JKL having played a couple of times, but largely sat on the bench, it is now decided he needs to get some experience of playing against league two players. Why wasn’t that option taken last January. And then we sign a non ball-playing CB. Okay I’ll accept there is probably some forward planning for Naismith leaving next summer.

I also understand that with a bigger first squad, Bell, Atkinson, Cornick not in it (Bell the only one injured) that the academy lads are not being used as much as they were in training either. So it’s not just match day but getting experience from training too.

It’s still a closing of the pathway whichever way you write it. I get the rationale for some of it, but there’s a longer term impact - squad investment. The less Scott, Semenyo, Conway players you have to sell, the better your inbound recruitment has to be to create transfer profit.

Short sighted!!!

Failure to follow a strategy. Because our hierarchy conveniently didn’t understand what it was and why.

 

I think there's an alternative conclusion that you can draw from those two posts you quote - not that the pathway has been closed, but that the bar to it has been raised.

Like so many other posters you characterise the pathway with the triumvirate of Scott, Semenyo, Conway. And -as someone else alluded to earlier - I think that if we had academy players of that quality right now then they'd get an opportunity. But - from what I've seen - we don't. And it's been raised to that level.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I think there's an alternative conclusion that you can draw from those two posts you quote - not that the pathway has been closed, but that the bar to it has been raised.

Like so many other posters you characterise the pathway with the triumvirate of Scott, Semenyo, Conway. And -as someone else alluded to earlier - I think that if we had academy players of that quality right now then they'd get an opportunity. But - from what I've seen - we don't. And it's been raised to that level.

Those might be the examples used by me and others in some posts, but it’s certainly not the bar by which I expect an academy player to attain before they get given opportunity.  I don’t characterise by those three, I regularly characterise with Joe James, Tommy Backwell, Omar Taylor-Clarke, and the ones in the next para.  The one raising the bar to that level is perversely Liam Manning.

As I said I’d have happily had JKL (loaned), SPH (loaned), Stokes (signed and loaned), Morrison, Nelson (injured) in / around the first team set-up this season than buy the second striker (not signed one of Armstrong or Mayulu), the extra no10 (not signed one of Twine or Earhy), the extra CB (McNally).

Edited October 6 by Davefevs

[mozo]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I want both, and I think it’s achievable.  It’s about following a strategy.

We wanted a no 9 who was physical and could stretch the play.  You become ruthless in recruitment, you don’t buy both Armstrong and Mayulu who are different types of “big forwards”.  You buy one, you perhaps pay a bit more for a bit better and then you use Wells, Cornick, Bell (centrally if needed) and SPH.

I like both Armstrong and Mayulu, but one is playing 60 mins, the other 0 mins (or negligible mins).

Yeah really good point mate.

19 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think you could reasonably argue that SPH is still on the "pathway". He's going down the route of being loaned out to help his development, similar to the likes of Bryan, Reid and Semenyo.

This is also true. If Seb comes in for the departing Wells in 2025, and JKL replaces Naismith, you could argue our succession planning is on point.

 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah really good point mate.

This is also true. If Seb comes in for the departing Wells in 2025, and JKL replaces Naismith, you could argue our succession planning is on point.

 

Without a “handover period”…that’s not succession planning!

You should have them learning from those guys whilst still here.

See Pack - Nagy and Massengo should’ve been learning from him, not allowing Pack to jump ship, and shove them in at the deepend.

[Sir Geoff]

12 hours ago, Malago said:

What a load of utter Barry.

is anyone suggesting Liam wouldn’t pick a Lloyd Kelly, a Bobby Reid, a Antoine Semenyo, a Alex Scott or even a Tommy Conway.

You’ve got JKL at Crewe, who will possibly take Naismith’s squad place next season, and Billy Phillips, as the only realistic academy prospects who look good enough for championship football.

The rest are miles off and the moment.
 

 

You really think Liam would have picked a 16 year old Scott to face a Premier League side ?

A raw Semenyo or 19 Yr old Conway. No he wouldn't imo.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Knight-Lebel seems to be the only serious option and I think there's enough doubt there.

The other big point here is if many fans aren't willing to be patient with Armstrong, would they be with Seb Palmer-Houlden, for example? 

Football fans are fickle. On one hand we want a pathway. On the other we want instant success.

I think you miss the point Mozo. It's not what the fans want, it's more a concern of what direction the club is heading and the thinking behind it. Yes most people expected instant success from our summer recruitment otherwise what was the point in splashing so much cash.

As I said on a previous thread if the intention was to bumble around in mid table we should have kept James, SPH and JKL and saved spending the best part of £7 million on Twine, Mcnally and Fally.

[Sir Geoff]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Those might be the examples used by me and others in some posts, but it’s certainly not the bar by which I expect an academy player to attain before they get given opportunity.  I don’t characterise by those three, I regularly characterise with Joe James, Tommy Backwell, Omar Taylor-Clarke, and the ones in the next para.  The one raising the bar to that level is perversely Liam Manning.

As I said I’d have happily had JKL (loaned), SPH (loaned), Stokes (signed and loaned), Morrison, Nelson (injured) in / around the first team set-up this season than buy the second striker (not signed one of Armstrong or Mayulu), the extra no10 (not signed one of Twine or Earhy), the extra CB (McNally).

Beat me to it, just made the same comments in reply to Mozo.

[extonsred]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Knight-Lebel seems to be the only serious option and I think there's enough doubt there.

The other big point here is if many fans aren't willing to be patient with Armstrong, would they be with Seb Palmer-Houlden, for example? 

Football fans are fickle. On one hand we want a pathway. On the other we want instant success.

Exactly...but the real problem is ...we haven't got either!!