Gareth Southgate comments

[CliftonCliff]

Interesting read on the BBC Sport website today. 

I remember when I originally joined OTIB, a good many years ago now, in one of my early posts I wrote something like: 

If you want to know how we'll get on in the next game, look in the changing room.

If you want to know where we'll finish at the end of the season, look in the manager's office.

If you want to know where the club will be in 3-5 years time, look in the boardroom. 

Obviously, I was just trying at the time to find a slightly different way of wording a pretty self-evident argument, but it has particular resonance at the moment, with the issue of the club's organisational structure (or lack of it) again taking prominence in some current threads like, for example, the Tinnion/SL one or the one titled "Buying Pattern".

In which context, I was struck by remarks made by GS in a recent interview, as reported in the piece referenced above. Well worth a look. He says, among other things:

"Clubs can only be successful if everything is aligned, right through the club..." (Sound familiar?)

"... the smarter people sit in the boardrooms (if only, in our case)... and .. coaches are more dispensable than you think..."

"As a coach, you think you are the most important person" and he then goes on to say that having sat in many boardrooms around the country over an 8 year period, he realised that a coach is only one small part of a much bigger, functioning system.

Despite the disappointing outcome of the Euros, and without denying in any way his limitations as a coach, I have long been an admirer of Southgate and think he deserves huge credit for the way he radically changed and improved the culture around the England team. He is a thoughtful, intelligent man of considerable personal integrity and he's had a hugely positive impact on the players who worked under him, not simply in terms of performance on the field, but of values and attitudes. As a result, I think he left the England set-up in far better shape than he found it.

I think there is a parallel here with our own club situation that is not hard to see. I have said on OTIB in the past, particularly in relation to the controversy that surrounded our previous manager's departure, that I felt NP was to Bristol City what Southgate was to England. The disconnect between supporters and club that has begun to reappear over the last year, and which is very evident on this forum at present, is largely attributable - in my opinion - to the vacuum that now exists where that influence used to be. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to England that appears to be happening to BCFC.

I would recommend the article, which is brief, to fellow OTIB members and would be interested to hear what others make of it.     

 

Edited October 10 by CliftonCliff
omission

[Davefevs]

Good post Cliff.

The Fans Forum will be / could be really interesting next week.

Last year was Manning all new and shiny, seemed to be more Qs about AG than the football, or more Qs to LM about what the future looked like.

Year before was RG, NP and BT all signing off the same hymn sheet although RG about to leave.

If the right Qs are asked it’s gonna be interest hearing all 3 (BT, JL and LM) answer them.

[CliftonCliff]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good post Cliff.

The Fans Forum will be / could be really interesting next week.

Last year was Manning all new and shiny, seemed to be more Qs about AG than the football, or more Qs to LM about what the future looked like.

Year before was RG, NP and BT all signing off the same hymn sheet although RG about to leave.

If the right Qs are asked it’s gonna be interest hearing all 3 (BT, JL and LM) answer them.

Thanks, Dave. I won't be at the FF, but will be very interested in any feedback that appears here.

[ExiledAjax]

I've long said that what happens in the boardroom ultimately finds it's way to the pitch. It's absolutely a reason why I bang on about governance, the absence of a CEO, desire to have a diverse board of directors etc. It is key.

I know there's still space at the FF next week. The club are a little nervous about it I understand, but also do want the right questions to be asked.

[CliftonCliff]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've long said that what happens in the boardroom ultimately finds it's way to the pitch. It's absolutely a reason why I bang on about governance, the absence of a CEO, desire to have a diverse board of directors etc. It is key.

 

Exactly.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

Interesting read on the BBC Sport website today. 

I remember when I originally joined OTIB, a good many years ago now, in one of my early posts I wrote something like: 

If you want to know how we'll get on in the next game, look in the changing room.

If you want to know where we'll finish at the end of the season, look in the manager's office.

If you want to know where the club will be in 3-5 years time, look in the boardroom. 

Obviously, I was just trying at the time to find a slightly different way of wording a pretty self-evident argument, but it has particular resonance at the moment, with the issue of the club's organisational structure (or lack of it) again taking prominence in some current threads like, for example, the Tinnion/SL one or the one titled "Buying Pattern".

In which context, I was struck by remarks made by GS in a recent interview, as reported in the piece referenced above. Well worth a look. He says, among other things:

"Clubs can only be successful if everything is aligned, right through the club..." (Sound familiar?)

"... the smarter people sit in the boardrooms (if only, in our case)... and .. coaches are more dispensable than you think..."

"As a coach, you think you are the most important person" and he then goes on to say that having sat in many boardrooms around the country over an 8 year period, he realised that a coach is only one small part of a much bigger, functioning system.

 

The highlighted part is exactly Nige wanted to develop at City having achieved his success at Leicester by creating such an ethos and why he brought trusted colleagues from those days with him.

Unfortunately it seems BT and JL stopped that happening…….and look where we are now………

[DaveInSA]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The highlighted part is exactly Nige wanted to develop at City having achieved his success at Leicester by creating such an ethos and why he brought trusted colleagues from those days with him.

Unfortunately it seems BT and JL stopped that happening…….and look where we are now………

According to Ian Gay we’re doing really well. Exactly where he expected us to be - mid table - after playing some sparkling football and being unlucky.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

According to Ian Gay we’re doing really well. Exactly where he expected us to be - mid table - after playing some sparkling football and being unlucky.

No doubt BT at old him to say that…….…….

[exAtyeoMax]

50 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've long said that what happens in the boardroom ultimately finds it's way to the pitch. It's absolutely a reason why I bang on about governance, the absence of a CEO, desire to have a diverse board of directors etc. It is key.

I know there's still space at the FF next week. The club are a little nervous about it I understand, but also do want the right questions to be asked.

It would be good if someone could reference the GS article in their question to the board. 

[CliftonCliff]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

It would be good if someone could reference the GS article in their question to the board. 

That’s a good shout.

[Peter1450]

14 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

It would be good if someone could reference the GS article in their question to the board. 

They would not listen, they're not listening still

Perhaps they never will 

[JAWS]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Good post Cliff.

The Fans Forum will be / could be really interesting next week.

Last year was Manning all new and shiny, seemed to be more Qs about AG than the football, or more Qs to LM about what the future looked like.

Year before was RG, NP and BT all signing off the same hymn sheet although RG about to leave.

If the right Qs are asked it’s gonna be interest hearing all 3 (BT, JL and LM) answer them.

I can't make it. Do you know if it's it being recorded Fevs? 

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, JAWS said:

I can't make it. Do you know if it's it being recorded Fevs? 

Pretty sure it was live streamed last year, because I sat there taking notes at home.

[FNQ]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Pretty sure it was live streamed last year, because I sat there taking notes at home.

Can you there this time around Dave? It would be excellent to have someone like you there ready to ask the right questions to hold them to account..

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Can you there this time around Dave? It would be excellent to have someone like you there ready to ask the right questions to hold them to account..

No, sorry I’m unable to.

[JAWS]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, sorry I’m unable to.

It will be nice to watch them squirm but sadly it'll make no difference as they are so set on doing it the Lansdown way which is obviously a tried and tested formula! Haha  

[Cidre Monita]

20 hours ago, JAWS said:

It will be nice to watch them squirm but sadly it'll make no difference as they are so set on doing it the Lansdown way which is obviously a tried and tested formula! Haha  

It will be proper cringeworthy seeing them squirming when they get the hardball questions thrown at them. Unfortunately I can’t make it, but please guys don’t let them off the hook with the usual pre-rehearsed BS responses. Make sure you follow up if they try to whitewash the question(s). 

[redsquirrel]

they will have pre-planned masks to hide behind for any awkward questions that come their way.  i.e, club sensitive info,nda, unavailable at the moment.

they will only answer what they want to, to try and put a good spin on everything

[PHILINFRANCE]

On 11/10/2024 at 09:02, Peter1450 said:

They would not listen, they're not listening still

Perhaps they never will 

Slightly difficult with only one ear .

[Major Isewater]

9 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Slightly difficult with only one ear .

It wasn’t Van Gogh MacLean was referring to but the critics of his works. Just for clarity and to ruin a joke. 

[SecretSam]

On 10/10/2024 at 16:13, CliftonCliff said:

"Clubs can only be successful if everything is aligned, right through the club..." (Sound familiar?)

"... the smarter people sit in the boardrooms (if only, in our case)... and .. coaches are more dispensable than you think..."

"As a coach, you think you are the most important person" and he then goes on to say that having sat in many boardrooms around the country over an 8 year period, he realised that a coach is only one small part of a much bigger, functioning system.

Look at Brighton. They've nailed it.

We...haven't.

[Red Cyril 2]

11 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Slightly difficult with only one ear .

Who has lost an ear ?

[Major Isewater]

53 minutes ago, Red Cyril 2 said:

Who has lost an ear ?

Have you found one ? 

[Red Cyril 2]

7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Have you found one ? 

No but I will keep my eyes peeled

[Superjack]

29 minutes ago, Red Cyril 2 said:

No but I will keep my eyes peeled

I wouldn't. 

Sounds painful.

[Red Cyril 2]

4 hours ago, Superjack said:

I wouldn't. 

Sounds painful.

Not as painfully as the ear on the loose

[PHILINFRANCE]

15 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

It wasn’t Van Gogh MacLean was referring to but the critics of his works. Just for clarity and to ruin a joke. 

It's McLean, but....

Vincent van Gogh's The Starry Night (1889), described in the song

"Vincent" is a song by Don McLean, written as a tribute to Vincent van Gogh. It is often erroneously titled after its opening refrain, "Starry, Starry Night", a reference to Van Gogh's 1889 painting The Starry Night.

McLean wrote the lyrics in 1970 after reading a book about the life of Van Gogh.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

It's McLean, but....

Vincent van Gogh's The Starry Night (1889), described in the song

"Vincent" is a song by Don McLean, written as a tribute to Vincent van Gogh. It is often erroneously titled after its opening refrain, "Starry, Starry Night", a reference to Van Gogh's 1889 painting The Starry Night.

McLean wrote the lyrics in 1970 after reading a book about the life of Van Gogh.

There was a VG exhibition in St Phillips a couple of years back, was really interesting.  Not normally my cup of tea, but quite enjoyed it.

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

There was a VG exhibition in St Phillips a couple of years back, was really interesting.  Not normally my cup of tea, but quite enjoyed it.

It's not really my cup of tea either, although my wife is very keen.

Accordingly, I (We) have wandered around place des Tertres in Montmartre, a place that is interesting in its own right, but where VG first started painting in France.

We have also visited Auvers-sur-Oise, a pretty little village just north of Paris, where VG continued painting until he died, as well as Chartres, where he painted the Cathedral; I have visited Arles several times, and it was very interesting to wander around the setting of several of his paintings.

We have also visited the Orsay Museum, where several of VG's works are displayed and, in fact, went there again just a few weeks ago as there is a VG exhibition on currently.

Finally, we spent a few hours at the VG museum in Amsterdam, which is very impressive.

As I said, it is not really my cup of tea, but, like you, I have enjoyed visiting his various haunts and exhibitions.

Of course, it keeps my wife happy to have my company on our tours, which is never a bad thing .

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

It's not really my cup of tea either, although my wife is very keen.

Accordingly, I (We) have wandered around place des Tertres in Montmartre, a place that is interesting in its own right, but where VG first started painting in France.

We have also visited Auvers-sur-Oise, a pretty little village just north of Paris, where VG continued painting until he died, as well as Chartres, where he painted the Cathedral; I have visited Arles several times, and it was very interesting to wander around the setting of several of his paintings.

We have also visited the Orsay Museum, where several of VG's works are displayed and, in fact, went there again just a few weeks ago as there is a VG exhibition on currently.

Finally, we spent a few hours at the VG museum in Amsterdam, which is very impressive.

As I said, it is not really my cup of tea, but, like you, I have enjoyed visiting his various haunts and exhibitions.

Of course, it keeps my wife happy to have my company on our tours, which is never a bad thing .

 

I go to the Propyard along the Feeder, and you name-drop all these fancy French locales!

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I go to the Propyard along the Feeder, and you name-drop all these fancy French locales!

I know you are joking, but it makes for a pleasant Sunday out.

A nice lunch somewhere, a stroll around a pretty area, town or village, or museum, and then back home again.

The VG museum in Amsterdam was part of a family trip to the Netherlands for a long weekend and, as I said, it was (surprisingly) extremely interesting.

In truth, I wanted to spend a couple of hours in the red light area, but my wife and daughters weren't too impressed at the idea .

[Lanterne Rouge]

15 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I know you are joking, but it makes for a pleasant Sunday out.

A nice lunch somewhere, a stroll around a pretty area, town or village, or museum, and then back home again.

The VG museum in Amsterdam was part of a family trip to the Netherlands for a long weekend and, as I said, it was (surprisingly) extremely interesting.

In truth, I wanted to spend a couple of hours in the red light area, but my wife and daughters weren't too impressed at the idea .

They probably thought it wouldn`t be worth it as you wouldn`t get many customers..........................

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

They probably thought it wouldn`t be worth it as you wouldn`t get many customers..........................

He earned €6.10.

Mrs Phil asked which stingy punter gave him 10c.

He replied, all of them!

boom boom

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He earned €6.10.

Mrs Phil asked which stingy punter gave him 10c.

He replied, all of them!

boom boom

Doing favours for sailors?