Red Robin Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Looking at the posts it seems fans are seeingthe big picture realising Wilson is just a average manager being paid probably the most money in this division for a manager. He has had four seasons to improve this football team [THE CASE BEING WE HAVE NOT GONE FORWARD] Danny Wilson is no nearer getting us out of this division than when he came.[This manager and his directors should have at all cost made sure MARK ROBINS stayed at the end of last season and YES we would have been in the FIRST DIVISION this year.SIMPLY THE GUY SCORES GOALS FOR FUN. This year says it all MARK ROBINS was avaliable and what happens we let him go to SHEFF WEDS first game scores two goals. REALITY CHECK THE GUY IS A PROVEN GOAL SCORER, do City want out of the division it really does make me wonder. The fact is this board seem intent on giving Wilson as long as it takes to get us up,the facts are us fans have been backing the team season, after season, and apart from a bit of excitement in last years playoffs that is Wilsons glory here. I am afraid it just is not good enough considering the amount of money this guy is having out of the club. Us fans are a hardy lot but the patience is wearing very thin and something has to give,Is it us fans by staying away or our Board saying enough is enough, or is it Wilson walking away. I really feel this club is boardering on a fan crises next year fans aint happy and at present I wonder how many are going to replace there season tickets?, personally I REALLY WILL BE THINKING ABOUT REPLACING 3 SEASON TICKETS I have sat in the ground this season and I have nearly falling asleep watching the displays put before us. Maybe I should pick and choose my games, as the team seems to play its football over the last 4 months sometimes good sometime average and sometimes bloody poor. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I don't see that Robins would have been the answer last season.OK he scored some vital goals but did nothing else.In fact I can't recal him completing a whole 90 mins in any game that he played for City. His carreer goal ratio pans out at 1 goal every 3.5 games -avaerage at best and not that impressive.I get so fed with up with City fans bemoaning City's failure to sign an ageing, no pace striker. I do have some sympathy with your points about Wilson especially as it took him loads of games to realise that Wilkshire is best as a central midfielder - but ever since he got the three 3 contract last summer I resigned myself to the fact that we are very much stuck with him.No point then imho complaining about it. However, I suspect that if Wilson fails to get us up this season that Landsdown et el will look seriously at paying him off.Its certain that if City fail to go up that the faithfull and the partimers will be calling for his head.There won't be a better time to start afresh with so many players out of contract in the summer so it would make sense to get a new manager along with some new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I don't see that Robins would have been the answer last season.OK he scored some vital goals but did nothing else.In fact I can't recal him completing a whole 90 mins in any game that he played for City. His carreer goal ratio pans out at 1 goal every 3.5 games -avaerage at best and not that impressive.I get so fed with up with City fans bemoaning City's failure to sign an ageing, no pace striker. I do have some sympathy with your points about Wilson especially as it took him loads of games to realise that Wilkshire is best as a central midfielder - but ever since he got the three 3 contract last summer I resigned myself to the fact that we are very much stuck with him.No point then imho complaining about it. However, I suspect that if Wilson fails to get us up this season that Landsdown et el will look seriously at paying him off.Its certain that if City fail to go up that the faithfull and the partimers will be calling for his head.There won't be a better time to start afresh with so many players out of contract in the summer so it would make sense to get a new manager along with some new players. WELL SAID!!!! I'm fed up of this robins debate dragging on and on. Its as annoying as the murray debate. I do belive though that the club are moving in the right direction with regards to youth development and business acumen at the club. The board are and belive most fans agree doing a fantastic job. We will go up in the playoffs this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 We will go up in the playoffs this year. Hee hee, yep I suppose a 1-1 at heavyweights Rushden is form of promotion candidates? Smell the coffee, the sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 <br /> Hee hee, yep I suppose a 1-1 at heavyweights Rushden is form of promotion candidates? Smell the coffee, the sooner the better. Were'nt we underdogs at rushden? We are not a big club!! So wake up and smell the coffee. WE have the potential to be a big club. Notice the the differance. WE have a good enough league record to suggest that the playoffs are beckoning. At least we are creating the chances. I don't see many other clubs setting the league alight at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 And what annoys me, is that he will come out and say how bl00dy fantastic we were today. How great the football was, and how much possession we had. Same as Blackpool. Fact is, we got one point from six. It's only because this is a very very poor division that we are still in touch with the leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 <br /> Were'nt we underdogs at rushden? We are not a big club!! So wake up and smell the coffee. WE have the potential to be a big club. Notice the the differance. WE have a good enough league record to suggest that the playoffs are beckoning. At least we are creating the chances. I don't see many other clubs setting the league alight at the moment. Where did I say we are a BIG Club then? Oh I didn't did I? Underdogs against Rushden agreed, albeit embarassing and also indicitive of the level of performances this season. The fact is IF we are serious about promotion we MUST be beating teams like Rushden and Diamonds. We did't ... FACT. We have failed to deceive ALL season..What is worrying is I feel WE are NOT good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrocks Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Total ######. We are a big club that is underachieving and have been for the last 20 years. Rushden are the opposite: a small club that have done well to rise through the leagues the last few years. Today's performance was symptomatic of a more widespread malaise at the club and Wilson has to take the responsibility for some very poor decisions indeed which have cost us many games and, consequently, promotion last year. This year is looking no more promising. And yes there is apoint in moaning. If you want to sit around accepting the status quo, then fine. Don't expect others to do likewise just for the sake of an easy life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Rome wasn't built in a day!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megansdad Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 and where has changing managers got us so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 We are moving in the right direction. Were only a couple of points off of the play - offs. I hate to mention the gas and we should'nt even see them as team to compare where our future lies but I think you'll agree that were moving in the right direction. We need to be looking at leicester, southampton,bolton,norwich,charlton etc as teams we need to emulate. I don't think that theres a manager who has ever had 100% backing of the fans so were bound to have this agreements over selection etc. Does'nt that just make football the game we love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Rome wasn't built in a day!!! I'd expect to see firm foundations in place after nearly 4 years though. We are no better now than when Wilson arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Rome wasn't built in a day!!! This isn't Rome and the current team hasn't been being built for just a day. I very much doubt we are (on average) creating less chances than QPR per game, however, how many did they score today? We managed 1 which is the most common goals scored value for us (this is followed closely by the next most common of zero). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 . We are no better now than when Wilson arrived. You know that is rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 You know that is rubbish. Convince me otherwise then GibMonkey, good luck Results, League Status, performances this season (in general) I think all these would tend to back up my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 <br /> Convince me otherwise then GibMonkey, good luck Results, League Status, performances this season (in general) I think all these would tend to back up my statement. if you can't even open your own eyes then why should I do it for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I threw down the gauntlet, you refused to elaborate. Some may argue that you don't have an argument to back up your statement. If you can't back it up maybe you should keep your nonsense to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 <br /> I'd expect to see firm foundations in place after nearly 4 years though. We are no better now than when Wilson arrived. <br /> The foundations are there and the team is better in every respect except for the ability to take the chances that come our way ... which is quite an important weakness as it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I very much doubt we are (on average) creating less chances than QPR per game, however, how many did they score today? We managed 1 which is the most common goals scored value for us (this is followed closely by the next most common of zero). Indeed, in umpteen games this season we have created more than enough chances to win the game and not done so. * QPR have now scored 39 goals from 252 shots. * City have 26 from 246. I have heard nothing to suggest that QPR are playing fantasty football (and I don't know why so many fans set such great store on City doing so) - it is simply that their players are better than ours at converting what chances they do get into the precious currency of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 it is simply that their players are better than ours at converting what chances they do get into the precious currency of goals. Could that not just read? it is simply that their players (strikers) are better than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I threw down the gauntlet, you refused to elaborate. Some may argue that you don't have an argument to back up your statement. If you can't back it up maybe you should keep your nonsense to yourself. Allow me to pick up this gauntlet. The season before Wilson arrived we had 44 professionals on our books, including such luminaries as Beadle, Burns, Holland, Hutchings, Mortimer, Pinamonte and Torpey. Under Pulis we were playing dire long ball whoosh football. I think we lost something like 3 million pounds that year, plus a lot of fans. There was unrest at boardroom level and major discontent on the terraces. Now, after 3 and a half years of Wilson we have less than 30 professionals on the books, with hardly any dead wood. We are playing in the main attractive, thoughtful passing football and we have a united board who continue their long term objective of stabilising our club and getting us out of the dreadful financial hole that relegation dropped us into. The Academy is beginning to bear fruit and the long term future of the club is looking far better than it ever did during the dark days of Pulis. Things aren't perfect. We are drawing games we should be winning, and losing games we should be drawing. But we've only lost 4 times this season and are proving hard to beat. Each year under Wilson we have finished higher than in the previous year. If we continue that record then we will get automatic promotion this season .. a goal that is well within our reach if we can start converting more of our chances into goals. If we fail to get promotion this season, then I think Wilson should go. If he takes us up, he'll be a hero. Such are the vagaries of football management. But it is far too premature to start writing off our chances at this stage. And it really is nonsense to suggest that we are no better now than when Wilson arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Ahh clever, I see what you have done. You have taken my comment and applied it to the club as a whole, to come up with an argument. I thought I was commenting on the state of affairs regards Mr Wilson (thread title -The Manager Debate, were in for a long ride me boys) Allow me to pick up this gauntlet. The season before Wilson arrived we had 44 professionals on our books, including such luminaries as Beadle, Burns, Holland, Hutchings, Mortimer, Pinamonte and Torpey. I'll go along with that Under Pulis we were playing dire long ball whoosh football. Agreed, but I can't think of many games this season where I have come away from the game feeling thoroughly entertained. On the whole this season I have been subjected to poor, lacklustre, boring performances against on the whole poor sides in a poor division. I think we lost something like 3 million pounds that year not exactly related to wilson and this thread, is it? plus a lot of fans. hmmm...not exactly cramming them in at the gate this season, are we? There was unrest at boardroom level again irrelevant to this thread. and major discontent on the terraces. hmmm...is there a pattern emerging? I know a few people that were regulars last season but are picking and choosing games this season. Now, after 3 and a half years of Wilson we have less than 30 professionals on the books, with hardly any dead wood. We are playing in the main attractive, thoughtful passing football attractive football in the main? in fits and starts maybe, few and far between. and we have a united board who continue their long term objective of stabilising our club and getting us out of the dreadful financial hole that relegation dropped us into. Irrelevant again in the context of this thread I'm afraid. The Academy is beginning to bear fruit and the long term future of the club is looking far better than it ever did during the dark days of Pulis. Maybe, but which new face has come through this season then? Things aren't perfect. We are drawing games we should be winning, and losing games we should be drawing. But we've only lost 4 times this season and are proving hard to beat. Concisely put...Punchless, boring, predictable? incapable of outscoring mediocre opponents on several occasions this season. Each year under Wilson we have finished higher than in the previous year. Can't argue with that BUT STILL in the quagmire of DIV 2, as when Wilson was appointed. If we continue that record then we will get automatic promotion this season .. a goal that is well within our reach if we can start converting more of our chances into goals. If, buts and maybes...I wish I was as confident. If we fail to get promotion this season, then I think Wilson should go. Some would argue - why wait? It's obvious he ain't the man for the job, I have my doubts. If he takes us up, he'll be a hero. More pie in the sky, IF, IF, IF Such are the vagaries of football management. But it is far too premature to start writing off our chances at this stage. How much longer do we accept these unnacceptable results then? And it really is nonsense to suggest that we are no better now than when Wilson arrived. Nope I stand by my earlier statement for the reasons I have just highlighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Ahh clever, I see what you have done. You have taken my comment and applied it to the club as a whole, to come up with an argument. I thought I was commenting on the state of affairs regards Mr Wilson. You specifically opined that: I'd expect to see firm foundations in place after nearly 4 years though. We are no better now than when Wilson arrived. There's nothing particularly clever in answering the question you actually raised (well as Dave L did so IMHO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 So we will finish better than last year then? Where are we 10th 11th, I do beleive we never really dropped further than 9th, during our annual slump in January, we also won games away from home, and we did score quite a few goals, and there was an eight team pack chasing Wigan. 10 draws does not a promotion (automatic) 1st/2nd place team. The team definitley aint better than last seasons, as a whole, granted individuals are, and some definitely are not, the fans are a hell of a lot more unhappy, and we have not even had a slump yet, suffered from injuries/suspensions piling up, all of which will happen. We have bumped along in a Blunderland most of the season so far, and are only starting to get a bit enthusiastic for the last month or so. The last time City went up we started the surge in October, and had our usual Jan slump allowing others Grimsby to close, then did enough to get out, thanks to Wycombe getting a result at Easter. Two months later, we start, and we have truble scoring...hmmm could be a problem Houston!! City do have a habit of coming from the pack, late, but also usually miss out, like last year, but with a lack of goals, and being draw specialists dont exactly lead to wild celebrations for the realists among us. Wilson is the gaffer, and has to sort it out. This team would struggle in Div 1 anyway, cos we dont score enough...do we want to yo-yo through the leagues? Anyway, trust your Uncle Steve to do the right thing, he didnt sound impressed with some of what he saw(The finishing- cant think why), but he was with other things, the effort put in in 2nd half in particular. Heres hoping for a HAPPY NEW YEAR..one way or other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 The fact is IF we are serious about promotion we MUST be beating teams like Rushden and Diamonds. We didnt... And nor did qpr , and where are they in the league , one game doesnt make a season , and today was a good perfomance apart from the finnishing , i feel we are starting to play well now and can go on and push for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 And nor did qpr , and where are they in the league , one game doesnt make a season , and today was a good perfomance apart from the finnishing , i feel we are starting to play well now and can go on and push for promotion. And your point being? I don't give a monkeys how QPR did against Rushden and Diamonds. ...but using your example QPR's lofty league position means they have obviously gained better results than us against other sides we have failed to beat. With nearly half the season played that must be FACT (everybody has almost played everyone else). A question Cider red what do all of these teams have in common? Rushden and Diamonds Blackpool Wycombe Wanderers Wrexham Peterborough Port Vale Colchester Utd Hartlepool Chesterfield ...I'll tell you shall I, these are teams that we have failed to beat this season, that are arguably on paper lesser sides in the division. Any serious promotion contender would be looking to beat these sides to be in with a chance of Auto/Playoff promotion. Out of a possible 27 points we have taken 5pts (3 of these games were at home also!!). It says it all. Do not try and suggest that todays result was a one off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Ahh clever, I see what you have done. You have taken my comment and applied it to the club as a whole, to come up with an argument. I thought I was commenting on the state of affairs regards Mr Wilson (thread title -The Manager Debate, were in for a long ride me boys) But you can't look at Wilson's performance without relating it to the club as a whole. That's exactly my point. Pulis was given a whole sack full of money, and he spent it on Steve Jones, Peter Beadle, Paul Mortimer. Paul Holland, Billy Mercer and a whole other bunch of journeyman crocks. Players tied in to long contracts on big wages, who never produced the goods for City. That's what Wilson inherited. So he has had to deal with a certain level of financial reality. Major debts, and a board who quite rightly decided they wanted to end the cycle of flushing money down the pan. He hasn't been able to throw money at the problem in the same way that Pulis and previously Ward did, and that's meant a longer term approach to rebuilding things on the pitch. Danny's record has to be judged against that background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fRed Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Think back to when Wilson took over... he started playing all of Pulis's signings. The fact was that he didn't have a clue, even though the gang of three had shown that the youngesters were better than Pulis's overpaid crocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc seattle Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I'm still not sold on Wilson, I said he should be given till end of the calender year to turn things around. While I do not think we've really got things turned around I do think we are no longer going backwards. It looks like we are starting to lose touch with the top two though which is a worrying sign. Especially if we have a January like the last few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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