Guest Neo Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I get the impression that more and more people are getting concerns over Phillips and his ever increasing flapping, glueing his feet to the goal line and all round lack of confidence he is displaying. Is it time for a shake-up in that position or is it simply that we are playing poorly, not getting results and every little error is being highlighted? If you want him replaced, Stowell, our young keeper (Name?) or loan signing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted December 16, 2003 Admin Share Posted December 16, 2003 If he's to be replaced it would have to be by an outsider. The academy goalies aren't much kop and having witnessed Mike Stowell's efforts at Plymouth in the LDV, it is clear that he's even more dodgy than "flapper". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I think Phillips deteriorating form is a manifestation of the lack of confidence within the team, probably caused by the weight of expectation and under achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 at least city dont have the 'talents' of rab douglas or magnus hedman to fall back on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 We should have got a new goalkeeper in the Summer to challenge him for his place. I think that is his main problem, he knows that in the back of his mind, no matter how badly he plays, there is nobody at the club that will take his place. Stowell is a back up keeper/coach. Although Scott Brown let in three against Man you last week, I don't think he looked too bad. Well at least he seemed to be able to catch the ball without dropping it. Let's also not forget that he was up against some of the best young players in the country - Nardielo, Richardson (and a few others who's names escape me). "Flappy" needs competition. "Flappy" needs competition quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I think Phillips deteriorating form is a manifestation of the lack of confidence within the team, probably caused by the weight of expectation and under achievement. Deteriorating form? I argue he has always been a clown between the sticks. Dodgy Keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 He's just playing behind a defence that is woefully inept in the air. keepers that are ready to come off their line do so because they know that at least sometimes their defence will bail them out. How many times did Schmeichel come and flap at crosses only to be bailed out by Pallister? a lot. I can't blame Phillips for not coming out much, he knows that our central defenders are simply not good enough in the air. Butler is dominated by every big forward in this league, as is coles. The only one who fares well is Matt Hill, but he is weak in set pieces because of his size. The only two defenders we have who can dominate big centre forwards are nowhere to be seen, Fortune seems to have been left to rot in the ressies, and Darren Jones is off at bloody Forest Green. What Phillips needs is an arially (sp?) solid defence infront of him, until then he will never comand his area, because simply he cant afford to risk missing it, as he knows most of the times he does a goal will be scored, as someone will dominate our defence and get in and score. When he has that, he will naturally come more, because he knows if he misses it isn't automatically a goal, and as he will come more he will get better. Command of an area is not something that is tought on the training pitch, it is learnt through expirence, look at young keepers, they are never good at commanding their areas, as they do not have the expirence, but stick them behind a good central defence in tha air and they will learn. the fact is Phillips has always played behind a dodgy defence in the air, so how is he supposed to learn ? He knows he has good reactions, so has to play not to come, as when the defence are beaten in the air, he has more chance of saving it if he is on his line. To proove the point, look at Cassillas, the best shot stopper in the world, but has always played behind a weak defence in the air, so his command of his area is poor. Bouffon, has always played behind a solid arial defence so his command is far, superior to that of Cassillas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 As a former youth team goalie I have to disagree. It is the goalkeeper who has to dominate the high ball in HIS 6 YARD BOX. It is his 6 yards. He has a massive advantage, obviously from reach but also no one can touch him or impede him, Peacock gave away a free-kick (surprise) tonight by getting in Ilic's way of a corner. He must command and be seen to command. Teams will have us watched and the first thing the scout will report back is that we have a dodgy keeper for high balls even near his own line he will stay. The oppos manager and forwards (even CH who love to score from set pieces) faces will light up, instructions issued. And whoops two more soft goals down to Phillips I'm afraid both of them. He didn't move for either because no keeper has the reaction time from a player 3 or 4 yards out unless placed near them and then it is a reaction leg or whatever. PS Used these skills to good effect when decided to play rugby, not bad in the line out but the real skill is taking the kick offs jumping &idiots storming at you ready to hit you with all they've got. I wonder if we should send Phillips down to Bris or bath for a couple of days jumping and catching coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myoudale Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I get the impression that more and more people are getting concerns over Phillips and his ever increasing flapping, glueing his feet to the goal line and all round lack of confidence he is displaying. Take note on the confidence part do you think players play better when they have the suport of there fans? i think yes BUT i dont hear maybe people giving phillips this confidence so please next game get behing all the team and his confidence will grow so will the teams that what we need at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 <br /> Take note on the confidence part do you think players play better when they have the suport of there fans? i think yes BUT i dont hear maybe people giving phillips this confidence so please next game get behing all the team and his confidence will grow so will the teams that what we need at the moment I think compared to a majority of players, Phillips (certainly at AG) gets off very lightly. If his confidence is knocked it is by the players around him and the unforced errors he is making; not the fans I would suggest. If Phillips is nervous because of fans abuse, Roberts must dread even walking on the pitch! I personally never abuse players outside of the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 We have conceded 18 goals this season in the league. Only QPR have a better defensive record. Yes, mistakes have been made, but Phillips has kept us in more games than he's lost us. The same can be said for the rest of the defence. The problem for keepers is always that their mistakes are more noticeable, because more often than not they tend to lead to a goal being conceded. Our problems lie in our failure to score - hardly the keeper's fault. It would be a shame if Steve Phillips became the latest victim of scapegoatitis which seems to be prevalent amongs some fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myoudale Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 yeah he makes errors i know people think that errors are not allowed but it happens but dont you think if you just made a mistake and fans were shouting at you all this abuse it would make you loose concentration so more errors would be made OR if fans say 'come on steve head up' this would make you determined to perform better for the rest of the game to thank them for there loyal support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 He's just playing behind a defence that is woefully inept in the air. Excuse me! This is not the case I think our defenders are generally good in the air, do you think they're going to win EVERY BALL? I have rarely seen Matt Hill or Coles beaten in the air consistently by anybody, but it's unreasonable to expect them to win everything all the time. Apart from the odd lapse I haven't had any real worries about our defence this season in the air or on the ground, the problems lie elsewhere. However, defending and goalkeeping become harder when you start thinking that any goal you concede will become the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myoudale Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 We have conceded 18 goals this season in the league. Only QPR have a better defensive record. Yes, mistakes have been made, but Phillips has kept us in more games than he's lost us. The same can be said for the rest of the defence. The problem for keepers is always that their mistakes are more noticeable, because more often than not they tend to lead to a goal being conceded. Our problems lie in our failure to score - hardly the keeper's fault. It would be a shame if Steve Phillips became the latest victim of scapegoatitis which seems to be prevalent amongs some fans. thank you at least I'm not the only one trying to support him here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I think the mistake the club has made is that when we had to let Mercer go we didn't recruit another No 1 keeper. Phillips only made his way into the team because of the dreadful injury to Mercer. IF we still had a fit Mercer now how much would Phillips have played in the past couple of years? We we lucky to have Phillips as the reserve keeper and he took his chance and made the No 1 spot his, but more through the misfortune of another than his own merit. He has been very fortunate with injuries himself but there were times when we've had little or no cover for him. It must be hard when no one is pushing for your place, no motivation. And equally hard when you aren't playing well and your confidence is low. I've never been a great fan of his, he doesn't look comanding or fill me with confidence. He looks slow to get to his feet after diving on the floor, him crawling about on his hands and knees made me cringe. But as he is a City player I'll suppose I'll be cheering him on Saturday! :sport18: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Maybe Philips should have someone challenging him for his spot, but he is the best fit keeper at the club. I'd say a lot more points have been saved than lost by Philips shot stoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 As a former defender its vital to have behind you a goalie who is competent in the air, it gives you a real sense of security. Unfortunately Phillips is a Dracula. Crosses scare him to death, which is why we let so many in from free-kicks or corners. The 6-yard box is the keeper's domain... NO-ONE else has the right to expect anything. Yet Phillips allows it to be the hunting ground of opponents. I have no arguments that he is a great shot stopper, but for heaven's sake we need a keeper who can CATCH the damn thing. Howsever, we have to go along with what we have as there is nothing in th epot to replace him unless someone lands in our laps. Phillips would probably drop it. :Hmm, yeah that's really funny Tarquin.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Unfortunately Phillips is a Dracula. Crosses scare him to death. there is nothing in the pot to replace him unless someone lands in our laps. Phillips would probably drop it. B) B) That cheered up an ever wise shiite day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezey Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Phillips isnt perfect but he is not as bad as some are making out, I think one or two are ill informed and as such your general views on phillips and goal keeping are just plain wrong. You do not rush through a crowd of players to take the ball from crosses, Thats not taught at any level and if it is then the keeper will lose more crosses than he catches. The six yard box may be the keepers domain as stated on this thread but there is also a responsibilty for players to track there markers. Having watched footage of the Barnsly goals Peacock didnt track his marker making it so much easier. And i would also like to point out that no goal keeper is ever coached to come for a cross when theres a packed penalty area ! If they are players in your way then you expect your defenders to do the job of clearing, If the ball comes in towards you then you get something on it and Phillips generally does this by punching clear, Nothing wrong with that as long as the defence get to the second ball. Again this has been a problem all season as we never seem to be first to the second ball! I agree that Steve needs to be more vocal at times, Unfortuantly its not an easy thing to teach players, Some players are loud and shout all through a match others are much quiter concentraiting on the situation at hand and I think Steve maybe one of the latter players, It takes time to teach these players how to command the pitch. I do think he needs more competition but that means another wage at the club and can we really afford that ???? How anyone can blame the keeper alone for goals conceded at set pieces amazes me ! How many direct balls in the box has he come for and dropped ? I cant think of any that have led to goals as a result ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Maybe because it's been here for TWO DAYS? :sport18: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 <br /> How come my earlier post (8.44) on this subject gets 1 reply you; and you get 18+posts on the same subject, no problem.just nobody likes me so I am going down the garden to eat some worms The reply to your post was from me giving the link to my earlier post. So your reference to your earlier post being earlier than my earlier post is not quite accurate. If you would have read your later post than my earlier post, you would have seen on said later post that I have provided a link to the earlier post giving you the opportunity to retract your later post at a later time. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 <br /> OOps !! sorry Think nothing of it. How were the worms by the way? Is it true that if you cut them in half they grow back and more importantly how long does it take and can they keep doing it? Recycleable food! This could in theory feed thousands :vomit2: :vomit2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 For a squad that supposedly has 'strength in depth' which was batted about as our 'secret weapon' before the season started, we seem to have a lot of players suffering from a touch of complacency because their positions aren't being challenged. I think that, along with Peacock and possibly Coles (who has been under achieving lately), Phillips is another in the 'comfort zone'. I think Phillips is a perfectly adequate keeper for our level of football, but he needs competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I think that, along with Peacock and possibly Coles (who has been under achieving lately), Phillips is another in the 'comfort zone'. I think Phillips is a perfectly adequate keeper for our level of football, but he needs competition. Totally agree about the competition. Every Manager has his favourites he wants to pick, however, he has to see that some are under-performing and need a big kick up the arse. That doesn't come from making them sit out 1 game; that only comes from the players having to fight for their place back. As you say, where is the competition for Phillips in the club at present. It's not coming from Stowell on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dan_84 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Definately not Stowell, as has been pointed out, we've got one of the best defensive records in the division. Philips is a damn good keeper, although i feel that we could do with some new cover come summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myoudale Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 i think at the moment we need to find a young keeper with good potential maybe steven bywater or someone like that just noticed his Contract Expiry: 06/2004 get him on a free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Absolutely no doubt that Flapper Fillips is a weak link. Stowell would be better at this time, or a loan keeper ahead of any other consideration. He is costing us goals, games, points. Agreed, not sure if Stowell is the REAL answer though. But in terms of a commanding presence, communication with those in front of him, arguably the trust of those in front of him and the ability to catch the freaking ball, he is the best we have. I wonder how many people who suggest the sun shines out of Phillips' backside do so because of THAT penalty save versus the gas? He has always been, is and always will be a 'dodgy keeper' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezey Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 <br /> Agreed, not sure if Stowell is the REAL answer though. But in terms of a commanding presence, communication with those in front of him, arguably the trust of those in front of him and the ability to catch the freaking ball, he is the best we have. I wonder how many people who suggest the sun shines out of Phillips' backside do so because of THAT penalty save versus the gas? He has always been, is and always will be a 'dodgy keeper' I defend Phillips because he is a good keeper, Irrelevent of what others think I know a little bit about goal keeping and he is one of the best keepers at this level. Unfortunatly one or two people dont seem to realise that the defence has been letting him down in key situations most of the season,. I certainly dont defend players because of one good moment, If that was the case then Ralph Milne would probably be my all time great! The point of my post on this thread was to highlight the fact that some people have been posting complete rubbish about what they think a keeper should do in a certain situations when they are completly wrong! Remind me how many goals conceeded have been directly because of him this season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Without being a total anorak, I wouldn't know. Since he became our regular GK - too many instances of howlers have been as a direct result of our No1 making fundamental errors, too many to simply call mistakes, perhaps he is naturally dodgy Though in answer to your question...haven't game(s) this month shown evidence of Calamity Phillips in 'action'? Forgot to mention in my earlier post, his kicking (from hand and dead ball) sucks too! plus his distribution from the glove is - at times, awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezey Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Fair play, Knowing how many goals he has given away would probably have made you a bit of nerd........so I dont blame you for not answering ! The goal at Blackpool is an example, I felt he did well to keep the original shot. Should have pushed it away further but the defence failed to deal with the ball as it dropped. Thats what I feel has been our main area of weakness. Not individuals but the defence as a unit (Of which I include Steve) I do agree with you on Steves distribution being the aspect of his game that lets him down, But he has really worked on this since coming into the team and has improved season after season so I dont see any reason why this wont continue to improve. I honestly think we need to improve our ability to deal with balls tossed into the box from deep as a unit, Teams like Colchester, Blackpool, Chesterfield always do well against us because we dont like the direct approach. Thats nothing new for this season as its being going on for the last 3 or so years. To blame just the keeper for the soft goals conceeded in recent weeks is harsh to say the least. Over the next few weeks as we conceed more goals from freekicks and corners and crosses take a look at the other areas, For instance Peacock allowing his man a free run into the box against Barnsley, Defenders allowing wide men to get the ball onto the strong foot to put the ball into the box, Danny coles not getting goal side on corners (Basics Danny!!!!) I really think you may be surprised by just how badly we are doing the simple things at the moment, You may find yourself appreciating Phillips for keeping the scores down then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Fair play, Knowing how many goals he has given away would probably have made you a bit of nerd........so I dont blame you for not answering ! The goal at Blackpool is an example, I felt he did well to keep the original shot. Should have pushed it away further but the defence failed to deal with the ball as it dropped. Thats what I feel has been our main area of weakness. Not individuals but the defence as a unit (Of which I include Steve) I do agree with you on Steves distribution being the aspect of his game that lets him down, But he has really worked on this since coming into the team and has improved season after season so I dont see any reason why this wont continue to improve. I honestly think we need to improve our ability to deal with balls tossed into the box from deep as a unit, Teams like Colchester, Blackpool, Chesterfield always do well against us because we dont like the direct approach. Thats nothing new for this season as its being going on for the last 3 or so years. To blame just the keeper for the soft goals conceeded in recent weeks is harsh to say the least. Over the next few weeks as we conceed more goals from freekicks and corners and crosses take a look at the other areas, For instance Peacock allowing his man a free run into the box against Barnsley, Defenders allowing wide men to get the ball onto the strong foot to put the ball into the box, Danny coles not getting goal side on corners (Basics Danny!!!!) I really think you may be surprised by just how badly we are doing the simple things at the moment, You may find yourself appreciating Phillips for keeping the scores down then ! I'm not denying we are seriously under performing in other areas. We used to hear 'he's a young keeper with lots of potential', I was never convinced of it then, at least we don't get that anymore. How many 1st team appearances does flapper have to his name? far too many in my opinion, and many more than as would be the case if we had a decent keeper at the club. He ain't there on merit, of that I'm sure. I have never rated Phillips, I'm also unlikely to start doing so now. How many more times do I have to say it? 'He is a dodgy keeper'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezey Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 <br /> I'm not denying we are seriously under performing in other areas. We used to hear 'he's a young keeper with lots of potential', I was never convinced of it then, at least we don't get that anymore. How many 1st team appearances does flapper have to his name? far too many in my opinion, and not as many as would be the case if we had a decent keeper at the club. He ain't there on merit, of that I'm sure. I have never rated Phillips, I'm also unlikely to start doing so now. How many more times do I have to say it? 'He is a dodgy keeper'. But just because you keep saying it, it doesnt mean its correct ! I guess the only thing I can say is time will tell, But as you have been convinced he was dodgy from the very begining I doubt you will change your mind no matter how he is playing. He was credited for some very good performances throughout most of last season yet by reading your post you dont feel he has ever produced the goods. If thats the case then I guess no matter what he does you will never be convinced by him Ho Hum thats forums for you I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Oh dear, I have to say I agree with one or two of you on certain points, one being that there should be another goal keeper in the club who would give Phillips the determination to keep his number 1 place, however, I think he has done a wonderfull job since achieving his position, how many times have I been on here and read "Phillips saved the game for us" I've been to games and seen him make fantastic saves, and more than one in a couple of matchs, EVERY keeper goes through a patch, top keepers have made unspeakable errors, but, The goalee is the last person in the line of defence, so to me, if the defence is broken through and it's left to just that one person... who's to blame really?. Why haven't the defence blocked it? I always rated Phillips alot higher than Stowell, and remember the day Stowell joined City, everyone thought he was great. Now poor ol' Steve is going through it. Encourage him, don't put him down for every goal that gets in, as like I said, it's not just his fault, there are 10 others on that pitch, i'd ask why was the ball allowed to get that far?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simsey Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Steve Phillips is the best keeper that City have got and i have loads of confidence when he is playing. Steve Phillips is a great keeper and saves us more points more times than what he has lost us points. So get off Steve Phillip's back and stop bad mouthing him as he doesn't desurve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 So get off Steve Phillip's back and stop bad mouthing him as he doesn't desurve it. I don't see anybody particularly bad mouthing Phillips. I do see a lot of people expressing opinions about him and giving their view about whether he should be playing or not; almost forum like you might say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 <br /> Excuse me! This is not the case I think our defenders are generally good in the air, do you think they're going to win EVERY BALL? I have rarely seen Matt Hill or Coles beaten in the air consistently by anybody, but it's unreasonable to expect them to win everything all the time. Apart from the odd lapse I haven't had any real worries about our defence this season in the air or on the ground, the problems lie elsewhere. However, defending and goalkeeping become harder when you start thinking that any goal you concede will become the winner. <br /> I don't think i ahve seen a team who have a big and descent striker who hasn't dominated our defence. Steve Howard, for Luton has dominated, Butler or coles every time we have played them. Peter Thorne in the playoffs completely dominated Butler and should have had 3 in the first leg. The list can go on. It is not necessarily that they can't jump it's just none of them have the strength in the air Bar matt Hill to actucally stop one of these monster strikers dominating them, i have seen countless defenders climb high above Coles not because they can jump higher but because they are stronger. this is why i have wanted to see Darren Jones alongside Colsy for a long time, because Coles has the pace, but Jones has the brute strength to stop these players. Also one thing i would love to see some stats of how many crosses we get come in against us, compared to other clubs, i would bet that it is a lot higher than the likes of QPR and other top sides, why do you think this is ? Could it be that the defence and midfield don't bother closing down at all. more crosses means more mistakes, means more goals. As for him costing us points, well last season i can think of an incredible 2 points he cost us, and that was one single mistake against Wycombe away, where he kicked straight to their playeer after an unbelievable bit of ungentelmanly conduct from one of those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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