A Season Full Of Promise ? (so We Thought)

[richieb]

Frustration is the key word that seems to be most common on forums & bars.

Whether you are pro or anti Tinnion, the fact remains that when we were given him as Manager, he inherited a quality squad & as others pointed out, the meanest defence in the league.

DW's failure at Cardiff was the lack of attacking options & he also had the likes of Tinnion as a senior pro who was feeding certain forum members bait to bring DW down.

No surprise when Tinnion got in & I think we all had to realise that the 'easy' option would be the route to bring us success.

Being honest, I thought the early signs with the inclusion of Lita & Wilkshire in the middle were the right ingrediant & I thought that this could well work.

So there we had it - the meanest defence, an experienced midfield & the goal machine up front?

So where has it gone off track?

Doc was captain - Coles was given the band & even picked ahead of the now captain Smith?

Is it down to the players who lack pride & self motivation? (most had it when DW was there)

Or is it that Tinnion lacked respect in the way he managed the club.

Was there something behind his appt that may have lead to this sudden change in personel.

Hill was up for the fight - then decided we wern't good enough to get up & would rather go now.

Changes to the line up & formation have been to often.

30 games into the season & Tinnion now realise's he ain't got the players behind him & working for him & I understand one of the players told Tinnion exactly what he thought of him as a manager ( not to be repeated)

All was set fair & all that was wanted were goals - now we have to play catch up.

Tinnion fan I am not - BCFC fan for 40 years I am - All I want is what is right for BCFC (not what is right for Brian Tinnion) - we should have had this at the beginning of the season - SL knew it.

Please Please Tinnion,stop tinkering & focus on the reason why you have the club where it is now.

We still have time,so starting Friday bring us one of the performances we know we can produce & have done so on the odd occasion.

[England]

Good and accurate summation of the season so far - Tins has made so many mistakes it's frightening but if he learns from each one he should be the best in the league - I won't hold my breath but will continue to live more in hope than expectation.

[Guest Mightymilks]

30 games into the season & Tinnion now realise's he ain't got the players behind him & working for him & I understand one of the players told Tinnion exactly what he thought of him as a manager ( not to be repeated)

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which player is this?

[Guest ali]

off on your own agenda again i see

[blackthorn slice]

Frustration is the key word that seems to be most common on forums & bars.

Whether you are pro or anti Tinnion, the fact remains that when we were given him as Manager, he inherited a quality squad & as others pointed out, the meanest defence in the league.

DW's failure at Cardiff was the lack of attacking options & he also had the likes of Tinnion as a senior pro who was feeding certain forum members bait to bring DW down.

No surprise when Tinnion got in & I think we all had to realise that the 'easy' option would be the route to bring us success.

Being honest, I thought the early signs with the inclusion of Lita & Wilkshire in the middle were the right ingrediant & I thought that this could well work.

So there we had it - the meanest defence, an experienced midfield & the goal machine up front?

spot on that mate.what worrys me that at the start of the season tinkerman said he,d been here 10 years and knew the lower divisions well and had the squad to do the job??????.it,s feb and to me he still don't know his best 11.

So where has it gone off track?

Doc was captain - Coles was given the band & even picked ahead of the now captain Smith?

Is it down to the players who lack pride & self motivation? (most had it when DW was there)

Or is it that Tinnion lacked respect in the way he managed the club.

Was there something behind his appt that may have lead to this sudden change in personel.

Hill was up for the fight - then decided we wern't good enough to get up & would rather go now.

Changes to the line up & formation have been to often.

30 games into the season & Tinnion now realise's he ain't got the players behind him & working for him & I understand one of the players told Tinnion exactly what he thought of him as a manager ( not to be repeated)

All was set fair & all that was wanted were goals - now we have to play catch up.

Tinnion fan I am not - BCFC fan for 40 years I am - All I want is what is right for BCFC (not what is right for Brian Tinnion) - we should have had this at the beginning of the season - SL knew it.

Please Please Tinnion,stop tinkering & focus on the reason why you have the club where it is now.

We still have time,so starting Friday bring us one of the performances we know we can produce & have done so on the odd occasion.

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[richieb]

off on your own agenda again i see

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Not sure what you mean by agenda?

Views of a supporter - not anything other than that.

You could say that every poster that has a view has his/her own agenda ?

Why not say something constructive in response unless that is too difficult?

[richieb]

which player is this?

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Lets just say he maybe a 'top' local lad from South Bristol.

[Robbored]

BT has made mistakes but then so did Wilson(Cardiff to name just one) as have all the managers that ever managed any football club at any level.

My frustration is the inconsistancy that City have shown all season.Great wins at AG over Hull, Tranmere home and away and yet dreadful losses to Wednesday,Swindon and C'field at AG.

It has been difficult for BT to step up but Steve Landsdown must have known that before he appointed him and it would be no suprise to me if Landsdown expected this season to be one of transformation with an outside hope of getting promoted.He'll have made some sort of allowance within the clubs finances for just the possiblity of yet another season down in the lower leagues.

That said, this season is not yet over and City could reach the play-offs and maybe do a Cardiff.....

[richieb]

BT has  made mistakes but then so did Wilson(Cardiff to name just one) as have all the managers that ever managed any football club at any level.

My frustration is the inconsistancy that City have shown all season.Great wins at AG over Hull, Tranmere home and away and yet dreadful losses to Wednesday,Swindon and C'field at AG.

It has been difficult for BT to step up but Steve Landsdown must have known that before he appointed him and it would be no suprise to me if Landsdown expected this season to be one of transformation with an outside hope of getting promoted.He'll have made some sort of allowance within the clubs finances for just the possiblity of yet another season down in the lower leagues.

That said, this season is not yet over and City could reach the play-offs and maybe do a Cardiff.....

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Yep,lets hope so robbo.

We need a nice run now to go into the play-offs with good form.

If we get in & amoungst the mix & don't quite make it to Cardiff then I reckon SL would have a minor reason to stick with BT.

Failure to make the Play-offs will put SL under great pressure to re-think the strategy.

[Guest Slinky]

Yep,lets hope so robbo.

We need a nice run now to go into the play-offs with good form.

If we get in & amoungst the mix & don't quite make it to Cardiff then I reckon SL would have a minor reason to stick with BT.

Failure to make the Play-offs will put SL under great pressure to re-think the strategy.

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I understand your frustration. But if we say for the sake of argument that we finish 7th and go with your opinion that Tinnion should be sacked. What do you suggest doing if the next manager fails to get us promoted? Would you only want him to have one stab at it too? Are you suggesting every manager from now on should only be given one chance to get us promoted, and if he fails he should be sacked?

[richieb]

I understand your frustration. But if we say for the sake of argument that we finish 7th and go with your opinion that Tinnion should be sacked. What do you suggest doing if the next manager fails to get us promoted? Would you only want him to have one stab at it too? Are you suggesting every manager from now on should only be given one chance to get us promoted, and if he fails he should be sacked?

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Failure is not just in the results.

While it is the ultimate measure,we have to remember that football is a business & the demand for fans & business's to invest their hard earned money.

Its also about what measures we allow ourselves to judge BT.

I take on board it's his 1st season & he has bumbled along.On occasions we have been at our worse for seasons & on others we have been at our very best.

I would judge him on the fact that in an ordinary divsion he has been unable to get a quality squad into the play-offs at least.

Would you take the chance that he would improve the situation next season?

Its a big ask & one that I think would have to be considered for the sake of the fans & corperate interest.

[Guest Slinky]

Failure is not just in the results.

While it is the ultimate measure,we have to remember that football is a business & the demand for fans & business's to invest their hard earned money.

Its also about what measures we allow ourselves to judge BT.

I take on board it's his 1st season & he has bumbled along.On occasions we have been at our worse for seasons & on others we have been at our very best.

I would judge him on the fact that in an ordinary divsion he has been unable to get a quality squad into the play-offs at least.

Would you take the chance that he would improve the situation next season?

Its a big ask & one that I think would have to be considered for the sake of the fans & corperate interest.

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Yes I would take that chance as I think it's an option more likely to bring success than changing manager again with a year of experience under his belt and a squad he has assembled himself. You didn't answer my question but thanks for the reply.

[richieb]

Yes I would take that chance as I think it's an option more likely to bring success than changing manager again with a year of experience under his belt and a squad he has assembled himself. You didn't answer my question but thanks for the reply.

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I thought I had answered your question

But to put it more directly.

Then if I feel that a Manager is not making progress & is infact taking a club backwards, then yes I would replace him after 1 season.

If I thought there were positives that come out of his 1st season.And that the fans were excited about the coming season as they saw some positives,then yes I would give it a 2nd season.

So each Manager on his merits - even if it's his 1st season.

With DW you could see that progress was being made. Even from season 1.

At the moment (and lets hope it changes) I can see little progress in the Tinnion style.

He had a squad he inherited that was the envy of many managers & couldnt work with it.

[Guest Slinky]

I thought I had answered your question 

But to put it more directly.

Then if I feel that a Manager is not making progress & infact taking a club backwards, then yes I would replace him after 1 season.

If I thought there were positives that come out of the 1st season & that the fans were excited about the coming season as they saw some positives,then yes I would give it a 2nd season.

So each Manager on his merits - even if it's his 1st season.

With DW you could see that progress was being made. Even from season 1.

At the moment (and lets hope it changes) I can see little progress in the Tinnion style.

He had a squad he inherited that was the envy of many managers & could work with it.

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I take your point and agree to a point. But if we finish 7th this year and sack Tinnion, bring in a new manager who wants to assemble his own squad and takes time to do so, has one or two good players already at the club who don't like him and has to make tough decisions about them. And after all that we finish 7th again.... WHat then? You see what I'm saying?

Also I think we had started to go backwards under Wilson. I know it can be said that you finish where you deserve to finish. But last season was awful to watch - I am struggling to remember a game where I came away thinking we looked good or where it was enjoyable to watch - and but for a very lucky run of 11 wins I think our finishing position would have been far more realistic in terms of where Danny had got us to and the pressure on Tinnion would not have been so intense right now.

[Dorset_Cider]

off on your own agenda again i see

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No not really..... just an agenda you may not personally agree with?

[Chivs]

I thought I had answered your question 

But to put it more directly.

Then if I feel that a Manager is not making progress & is infact taking a club backwards, then yes I would replace him after 1 season.

If I thought there were positives that come out of his 1st season.And that the fans were excited about the coming season as they saw some positives,then yes I would give it a 2nd season.

So each Manager on his merits - even if it's his 1st season.

With DW you could see that progress was being made. Even from season 1.

At the moment (and lets hope it changes) I can see little progress in the Tinnion style.

He had a squad he inherited that was the envy of many managers & couldnt work with it.

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Tins has made a radical change to poorly performing personnel half way through the season. That's a positive isn't it? For sure, you could say he should have known his team all along but this is his first season.

Also, a deaf and mute Tinnion would show more passion for our club than Wilson even after Wilson had walked into an Emotion shop and ordered a pound of emotion with chips.

The ultimate judgement is where we finish at the end of the season. Wilson didn't get us promoted afetr 4 attempts. Tinnion still hasn't got us promoted but he's only been manager for half a season!

[richieb]

I take your point and agree to a point. But if we finish 7th this year and sack Tinnion, bring in a new manager who wants to assemble his own squad and takes time to do so, has one or two good players already at the club who don't like him and has to make tough decisions about them. And after all that we finish 7th again.... WHat then? You see what I'm saying?

Also I think we had started to go backwards under Wilson. I know it can be said that you finish where you deserve to finish. But last season was awful to watch - I am struggling to remember a game where I came away thinking we looked good or where it was enjoyable to watch - and but for a very lucky run of 11 wins I think our finishing position would have been far more realistic in terms of where Danny had got us to and the pressure on Tinnion would not have been so intense right now.

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Yep,I have to admit that the performances under DW wern't sometimes pleasant on the eye & agree that even on our unbeaten run,we didn't look to convincing.

But 5 or 6 games apart,we have looked even worse this season & even with some wins (Peterboro Walsall) we were very much on the lucky side.

But I take issue with the new manager - fresh faces.

The fact maybe that it will take a little time to get the personel & style right & I for one was up for giving BT the chance on this front.

30 games into the season & he now decides that certain players are not for him & are not up for the fight.

You don't get much time in football & I feel not let down by the players involved but by the Manager who has taken this ammount of time to get to this situation.

And also let down that he feels unable to work with players with obvious talent & love of BCFC.

The team has been tinkered with to much & lets hope its not come to late.

[Dorset_Cider]

Also I think we had started to go backwards under Wilson. I know it can be said that you finish where you deserve to finish. But last season was awful to watch - I am struggling to remember a game where I came away thinking we looked good or where it was enjoyable to watch - and but for a very lucky run of 11 wins I think our finishing position would have been far more realistic in terms of where Danny had got us to and the pressure on Tinnion would not have been so intense right now.

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But it was not and we did get to Cardiff but...... Is pretty football going to get us out of this division? I think not.

Brighton & Bristol City were both awful in that final game but who out of the two teams is playing in a higher league?

Pretty..... I think not

The pressure was always going to be intense on whoever took over, I can't be taken in with sentiment shown for BT.... BCFC manager = Intense = Whoever takes up the poison challis

BT never in at the top job ..... it was always going to be one gamble too many for me...... that said it is not down to us to decide at the end of the day, we have a board that decide such things?

[richieb]

Tins has made a radical change to poorly performing personnel half way through the season.  That's a positive isn't it?  For sure, you could say he should have known his team all along but this is his first season.

Also, a deaf and mute Tinnion would show more passion for our club than Wilson even after Wilson had walked into an Emotion shop and ordered a pound of emotion with chips.

The ultimate judgement is where we finish at the end of the season.  Wilson didn't get us promoted afetr 4 attempts.  Tinnion still hasn't got us promoted but he's only been manager for half a season! 

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Take it your not a Wilson fan?

And yes, lets all judge at the end of season.

[Guest ali]

umm doing well under wilson, spent the second most in the division, left lita on the bench, played a team full of defenders with no stikers on the bench against the most defence minded team in the division at the play offs,300k for miller ,100k for roberts, ohh yes real quality.

[Dorset_Cider]

umm doing well under wilson, spent the second most in the division, left lita on the bench, played a team full of defenders with no stikers on the bench against the most defence minded team in the division at the play offs,300k for miller ,100k for roberts, ohh yes real quality.

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Roberts was a bargain.........he really did help save last season.

And just how much further have we gone since Danny Wilson?

What have we spent this season..... or is our season spent?

[Guest Slinky]

But it was not and we did get to Cardiff but...... Is pretty football going to get us out of this division?  I think not.

Brighton & Bristol City were both awful in that final game but who out of the two teams is playing in a higher league?

Pretty..... I think not

The pressure was always going to be intense on whoever took over, I can't be taken in with sentiment shown for BT.... BCFC manager = Intense = Whoever takes up the poison challis

BT never in at the top job ..... it was always going to be one gamble too many for me...... that said it is not down to us to decide at the end of the day, we have a board that decide such things?

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Fair point. The pressure will be there for whoever takes the job. It's just my opinion that the 11 game unbeaten run was very very lucky and no reflection on how we were playing at that time. It gave us a false finishing position in the league and made Tinnion's job appear easier than it actually was/is.

It's hard to justify why I feel we went backwards when we finished 3rd and got to the play off final, but that is how it felt and is part of the reason I would stick with Tinnion next season.

You are right, the board will make these decisions. I don't envy them.

[Dorset_Cider]

Fair point. The pressure will be there for whoever takes the job. It's just my opinion that the 11 game unbeaten run was very very lucky and no reflection on how we were playing at that time. It gave us a false finishing position in the league and made Tinnion's job appear easier than it actually was/is.

It's hard to justify why I feel we went backwards when we finished 3rd and got to the play off final, but that is how it felt and is part of the reason I would stick with Tinnion next season.

You are right, the board will make these decisions. I don't envy them.

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Maybe luck plays more of a part than any of us will admit to?

In truth you don't finish third two seasons in a row for no reason and I think luck and desire perhaps played a big part in it for the teams that went up?

We could just have easily had that little extra bit of luck ourselves and won one more game last season and we would never have had this conversation??

I don't think we have a choice.... Tinnion will be with us next season, I just hope he has learnt what he needs to know to take us up........asking too much.... no he is the Manager of Bristol City FC!

COME ON YOU REDS!

"UP THE CITY!"....... as My Dear OLd Nan Bristol used to say.

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Why are we bothering even to discuss Danny Wilson HE's GONE......Brian Tinnion has had six months to achieve what the three previous managers failed to do... some of you may just want to think about that....Who said what to whom in the dressing room is just pure horse droppings the fact is if some players cant play for this manager that is rather down to them (and probably not the manager)and it is time they moved on (almost certainly to clubs who don't pay ridiculously high wages for abject mediocrity-I here Aaron Brown's position at Tamworth may be open)so lets put some blame where it largely lays, at the feet of players who take OUR money for nothing and then whine about it to people who post on here.....

[richieb]

Fair point. The pressure will be there for whoever takes the job. It's just my opinion that the 11 game unbeaten run was very very lucky and no reflection on how we were playing at that time. It gave us a false finishing position in the league and made Tinnion's job appear easier than it actually was/is.

It's hard to justify why I feel we went backwards when we finished 3rd and got to the play off final, but that is how it felt and is part of the reason I would stick with Tinnion next season.

You are right, the board will make these decisions. I don't envy them.

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The point I originally made was even more hard hitting tonight watching LL.

All we needed was goals?

God only knows where we would be if LL had't of got his quota this season.

Praise for Tinnion here.

But LL's performances have glossed over the cracks that have appeared elsewhere.

[Guest Slinky]

The point I originally made was even more hard hitting tonight watching LL.

All we needed was goals?

God only knows where we would be if LL had't of got his quota this season.

Praise for Tinnion here.

But LL's performances have glossed over the cracks that have appeared elsewhere.

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And we all know where we could be if Lita had got one last season in Cardiff. I should think that thought would haunt Danny Wilson to his grave, if he cared sufficiently.

[PhatWill]

And we all know where we could be if Lita had got one last season in Cardiff. I should think that thought would haunt Danny Wilson to his grave, if he cared sufficiently.

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I like the way that everyone presumes that if DW had played Leroy Lita that day in Cardiff we would have one the match...

Remind me of how many shots we had on goal that day?

None if I remember rightly. We didn't turn up as a team and Danny Coles gave away a stupid penalty.

End of.

Danny Wilson was (like it or lump it) taking us forwards in terms of getting closer and closer to promotion each season. Brain Tinnion has taken us backwards.

If Steve L is to stick to his guns then he must punish failure and Tins has to be the man to go I'm afraid.

[richieb]

And we all know where we could be if Lita had got one last season in Cardiff. I should think that thought would haunt Danny Wilson to his grave, if he cared sufficiently.

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Yep,I have to agree on this one.

As has been said recently,Lita was told by Tinnion not to be disappointed,because his time would come.

Yes Brian you knew something DW didn't!! Not how good Lita could be - that you would be in charge next season.

DW knows where he got it wrong.But maybe that support from a few senior players wouldn't have gone a miss.

[Guest Slinky]

I like the way that everyone presumes that if DW had played Leroy Lita that day in Cardiff we would have one the match...

Remind me of how many shots we had on goal that day?

None if I remember rightly. We didn't turn up as a team and Danny Coles gave away a stupid penalty.

End of.

Danny Wilson was (like it or lump it) taking us forwards in terms of getting closer and closer to promotion each season. Brain Tinnion has taken us backwards.

If Steve L is to stick to his guns then he must punish failure and Tins has to be the man to go I'm afraid.

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I didn't presume he would score. But he has scored most of his goals for City whilst he's actually been on the pitch. Not even being on the bench made it harder for him to get a shot on goal in my opinion.

In 2002-2003 we got 83 points. Last season we got 82 points despite winning 11 games on the trot when our play deserved nothing like that sort of return.

To get from 83 to 82, which direction do I need to go in?

If City get in the play-offs with 76 points and get to the final but lose on penalties, will you then be saying Tinnion took us forward?

[Guest Donnie Darko]

But LL's performances have glossed over the cracks that have appeared elsewhere.

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absolute rubbish, if you think that's the case you've obviously missed the last 3 months. I think the performances of those who have done well this season has actually helped to highlight the weaknesses of players who are not doing the business, hence these players are now thought less of than they were a year ago.

One other point which I am at odds with you with, is the fact that you say if Tins knew the team so well, why didn't he change things earlier? Well, he sorted things out after the first 5 games - or did you forget that from mid september to mid november saw the most collective set of games seen in a long time? It was only after this period that the problems with certain players really became obvious - I think during the successful period the problems (which were evident during the first few games) were glossed over by some very good performances.

Of course when the quality dried up, the problems get magnified and those not willing to pull in the same direction are shown up for what they really are. and it became obvious to everyone including the manager that something serious needed to be done.

I do hope that on match days you get behind tins and the lads, rather than moaning at the fact that danny aint here anymore or that the current lot have taken us backwards - surely it's only fair given that you were obviously more than prepared to let the previous manager have a 5th go at getting city promoted.

[richieb]

Why are we bothering even to discuss Danny Wilson HE's GONE......Brian Tinnion has had six months to achieve what the three previous managers failed to do... some of you may just want to think about that....Who said what to whom in the dressing room is just pure horse droppings the fact is if some players cant play for this manager that is rather down to them (and probably not the manager)and it is time they moved on (almost certainly to clubs who don't pay ridiculously high wages for abject mediocrity-I here Aaron Brown's position at Tamworth may be open)so lets put some blame where it largely lays, at the feet of players who take OUR money for nothing and then whine about it to people who post on here.....

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So your happy that Tinnion has made progress this season?

quality squad - new additions ?

Takes 30 games to realise he could do without certain players?

All I am trying to say is that, I don't see any progress.

But am willing to give it til the end of the season.

If we do it, then I will be the first to post my congrates to SL & BT.

If you still have a buzz & BT is doing it for you,then tell me where I am going wrong?

Thought some of the displays this season were top drawer & thats all I ask is we find some consistancy & that BT gets the winning formula damn quick.

[Guest Donnie Darko]

I like the way that everyone presumes that if DW had played Leroy Lita that day in Cardiff we would have one the match...

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Actually i think you'll find it's a case of... If Danny had played Leroy in more than a couple of games in a row last season then.... blah blah blah....

[PhatWill]

I didn't presume he would score. But he has scored most of his goals for City whilst he's actually been on the pitch. Not even being on the bench made it harder for him to get a shot on goal in my opinion.

In 2002-2003 we got 83 points. Last season we got 82 points despite winning 11 games on the trot when our play deserved nothing like that sort of return.

To get from 83 to 82, which direction do I need to go in?

If City get in the play-offs with 76 points and get to the final but lose on penalties, will you then be saying Tinnion took us forward?

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In my opinion we were a much more drilled and organised side last season than we were in the previous one when we scored 100+ goals. But do you remember the play-off games against Cardiff? How many goals did we score against them over two legs? None. When the pressure is on City, we seem to fail to perform and that certainly needs to be looked at.

Last season we beat the league winners twice and took 4 points off Hollowheads plastic cockneys. We were also only ONE point off automatic promotion compared with the FOUR points off 2nd place the season before that.

So, as you can see we didn't really move backwads at all, we got to the play-off final and marginally missed out on auto.

You could say stagnated - personally if I were Steve L I would have taken the risk and not gone ape in sacking DW and appointing a complete novice who has OBVIOUSLY and UNDERSTANDABLY taken us backwards a few years.

[PhatWill]

Actually i think you'll find it's a case of... If Danny had played Leroy in more than a couple of games in a row last season then.... blah blah blah....

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What are you on about?

If you're going to make a point, then make it. Don't pussy foot around.

[Guest Donnie Darko]

What are you on about?

If you're going to make a point, then make it. Don't pussy foot around.

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i was just pointing out, that it wasn't the playoff final that was the problem, it was the persistent playing of an off form non-scoring striker whilst not even giving leroy more than half an hour every few games or so.

[richieb]

I do hope that on match days you get behind tins and the lads, rather than moaning at the fact that danny aint here anymore or that the current lot have taken us backwards - surely it's only fair given that you were obviously more than prepared to let the previous manager have a 5th go at getting city promoted.

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I was one that actually felt that a change was needed.

Yep,I was hoping that the board would look elsewhere before they decided who was best for the job.

But I have to admit,a 5th season under DW dosn't seem such a bad thing now.

For the past 40 years I have given this club nothing but my support & like other fans seen so much more under achievement than success.

I was disappointed with Tinnions appt, but if you look back was giving him full support & game after game to get it right.

If we have progressed why are we still outside the play-offs?

As for finding the cracks,well let me ask why did Tinnion make TD captain? Why did Tinnion make DC captain? Why did DC play ahead of our new captain up until recently.

Was it not DC who had an outstanding game against Tranmere recently.

Let me pose this question?

Tinnion saw HIS team struggling over recent weeks & some key players were getting frustrated at the managers inability to get it right & the continued tinkering with line-ups & tactics?

Players like Hill could see that the club would struggle to make an impact this season.

Tinnion had a one on one with players & it was than (and only then) that views were aired about Tinnion's management style.DC & TD had spoken out of turn & BT was now aware that these players were not going to be supportive in his quest.

Can you actually tell me which players you believe have not performed this season.

I for one don't think that DC & TB in particular have performed worse than those like Bell,Smith,Murray,Orr etc.

I so hope that starting Friday we CAN get back to the type of performances we showed against Tranmere Hull etc.

We should & can beat Warsaw.

[PhatWill]

i was just pointing out, that it wasn't the playoff final that was the problem, it was the persistent playing of an off form non-scoring striker whilst not even giving leroy more than half an hour every few games or so.

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Thankyou, and I agree. Since the first time I ever saw Leroy play it was clear he was going to be a star. I can only defend DW by saying that Roberts had a lot of pace and did score goals (vital ones at that!) and Peacock scored a few but also had excellent team defensive qualities.

I don't remember many people at the time saying that they would start Lita (apart from me) but I was merely responding to this misguided quote from Slinky:

And we all know where we could be if Lita had got one last season in Cardiff. I should think that thought would haunt Danny Wilson to his grave, if he cared sufficiently.

[Guest Slinky]

Thankyou, and I agree. Since the first time I ever saw Leroy play it was clear he was going to be a star. I can only defend DW by saying that Roberts had a lot of pace and did score goals (vital ones at that!) and Peacock scored a few but also had excellent team defensive qualities.

I don't remember many people at the time saying that they would start Lita (apart from me) but I was merely responding to this misguided quote from Slinky:

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How is it misguided to suggested that we COULD be in a higher division if Lita had scored a goal at Cardiff in the play off final? How is it misguided to suggest he'd have had more chance of doing that if he'd been on the pitch rather than sitting in the stands?

[Galley is our king]

Interesting that Tinnion now demands total loyalty to Him and the cause.....maybe we would have gone up last year if HE, and maybe others, had shown the same for DW.

You cannot lead by example if you have already set a bad one...

[downendcity]

Another post this morning comments on the MK Dons result, and many posters speculate on our chances because this team won't stay where vthey are, or that team will blow up soon etc., etc.

About this time last year our destiny was completely in our hands. If we did no worse than the teams around us we would have achieved automatic promotion, and only missed this by 1 point. During that time how confident were you that the team would achive that goal? Most of us were very confident, and the team went into one of the toughest sequences of games for some time ( Plymouth, Swindon and QPR)and performed suberbly when under the most pressure to do so.

This season. Automatic promotion - forget it, the leaders are out of sight. Just to scrape into a play off spot we need to outperform the teams above us by 6 points over the remainder of the season and basically are dependant on everyone around us cocking it up. How confident are you that we can do that? No need to reply really as we all know the answer if we are honest.

Have Hull, Tranmere and Luton raised the standard so much this season that we've not been able to keep pace? I don't think so. We've gone backwards, there is no other way to look at it I'm afraid to say.

[Rednready]

Hull, Tranmere,Luton have not necessarily improved, but they are playing as a team.BCFC are playing as a squad of individuals rather than a close knit team with a plan and direction. Individual player conflict is being addressed, and once the new Tinnion squad and direction are settled we can move on. Looks like next season, and Tins is working to an early spring clean, and a fast start to next season, not the 2 pts in 5 games of this season. Sad but it all points to a renovated squad and the same division 2005-6.

[NATCHER]

Interesting that Tinnion now demands total loyalty to Him and the cause.....maybe we would have gone up last year if HE, and maybe others, had shown the same for DW.

You cannot lead by example if you have already set a bad one...

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Wise words indeed.

Has anyone asked the question why so many players "can't be bothered" under Tinnion?

So many players being moved out and one common denominator--The Manager!!!!

[Slave to the rhythm]

Hull, Tranmere,Luton have not necessarily improved, but they are playing as a team.BCFC are playing as a squad of individuals rather than a close knit team with a plan and direction. Individual player conflict is being addressed, and once the new Tinnion squad and direction are settled we can move on. Looks like next season, and Tins is working to an early spring clean, and a fast start to next season, not the 2 pts in 5 games of this season. Sad but it all points to a renovated squad and the same division 2005-6.

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In a way, promotion this year would actually be a bad thing, in view of all the recent upheaval (and it hasn't finished yet). We would not be remotely equipped for life in the Championship yet. Perhaps one more season at this level would be what we need? Not a pleasant thought I'll admit, but maybe it's necessary to spend another year "taking stock".

[REDOXO]

So your happy that Tinnion has made progress this season?

quality squad - new additions ?

Takes 30 games to realise he could do without certain players?

All I am trying to say is that, I don't see any progress.

But am willing to give it til the end of the season.

If we do it, then I will be the first to post my congrates to SL & BT.

If you still have a buzz & BT is doing it for you,then tell me where I am going wrong?

Thought some of the displays this season were top drawer & thats all I ask is we find some consistancy & that BT gets the winning formula damn quick.

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Richie we are all pretty bl***y frustrated about whats gone on this season....however it does seem clear that some players were not inclined to give 100% for this manager so lets be honest if that is the case and from previous posts it does look likely, it is hardly supprising our progress under BT has not been great up until now!!

As far as quality additions are concerned Steve Brooker is quality and I will defy anybody to tell me he is not unfortunately Dinning only performed until he had a contract and the jury is out on the returning Carey...Orr I feel is improving with every game and obviously the Ireland situation we will watch carefully

I do agree that we have an unsetled team and he has taken 30 games to work out what his best team and formation are which is aggrevating as we are addapting our style 352-442-etc-etc to counteract the opposition which In my oppinion gives them the edge, whilst we should be concentrating on making them worry about us and I think this is a fair criticism.........

all in all BT doesn't give me a buzz but he just might before the season ends---we live in hope

[RedZepperin]

So many players being moved out and one common denominator--The Manager!!!!

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Yes, we have the same manager. This is because we need STABILITY. Who cares if we lose a few players?

Take a leaf from SL's book and look to big clubs for inspiration. Real Madrid, for example, are on a roll right now and they've lost how many regular first team players this season? Oops...none.

But at least they've stuck with the same manager! Oops...they're on their third already this term. (I think I need to rework this argument a bit...)

[Dorset_Cider]

Yes, we have the same manager. This is because we need STABILITY. Who cares if we lose a few players?

Take a leaf from SL's book and look to big clubs for inspiration. Real Madrid, for example, are on a roll right now and they've lost how many regular first team players this season? Oops...none.

But at least they've stuck with the same manager! Oops...they're on their third already this term. (I think I need to rework this argument a bit...)

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Could be............. that you might RedZepperin

[Guest Donnie Darko]

Yes, we have the same manager. This is because we need STABILITY. Who cares if we lose a few players?

Take a leaf from SL's book and look to big clubs for inspiration. Real Madrid, for example, are on a roll right now and they've lost how many regular first team players this season? Oops...none.

But at least they've stuck with the same manager! Oops...they're on their third already this term. (I think I need to rework this argument a bit...)

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comparing city with real madrid, that's a novel concept. anyway, i think you'll find that manager's at madrid don't get much of a choice on who they pick, los galacticos must play. and as far as changing manager 3 times in a year, i'm sure they can afford the compensation packages, which we can't.

[RedZepperin]

comparing city with real madrid, that's a novel concept.

Not really. Comparing City with big clubs, medium-sized clubs and small clubs is done all the time on here. As long as the answer that comes out is "you don't want to do that, look what happened to..."

anyway, i think you'll find that manager's at madrid don't get much of a choice on who they pick, los galacticos must play.

Now that is a cliche. Who do you think Mr Luxemburgo would rather pick then?

and as far as changing manager 3 times in a year, i'm sure they can afford the compensation packages, which we can't.

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So you are suggesting that we should save money on compensation packages for underperforming managers even if that means losing out on increased earnings in a higher division, the value of our players plummetting, having to pay out more money on more signings, agents' fees, etc.

[Guest Slinky]

comparing city with real madrid, that's a novel concept.

Not really. Comparing City with big clubs, medium-sized clubs and small clubs is done all the time on here. As long as the answer that comes out is "you don't want to do that, look what happened to..."

anyway, i think you'll find that manager's at madrid don't get much of a choice on who they pick, los galacticos must play. 

Now that is a cliche. Who do you think Mr Luxemburgo would rather pick then?

and as far as changing manager 3 times in a year, i'm sure they can afford the compensation packages, which we can't.

So you are suggesting that we should save money on compensation packages for underperforming managers even if that means losing out on increased earnings in a higher division, the value of our players plummetting, having to pay out more money on more signings, agents' fees, etc.

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I see what you are saying. Obvipusly if our trophy cabinet looked anything like Real Madrid's we'd all be a lot happier - well most of us anyway.

But I don't think that Real Madrid are a particularly good blueprint for most other clubs. If memory serves me correctly, they had spiralled into debts of around $250 million. This was wiped out by the sale of their training ground for around $400 million.

This all happened amid allegations that the government had illegally used public finances to help Real out of trouble and that planning boundaries had been altered to increase the value of the land.

Clearly if you can spend money like water and have the debt wiped out by local government life is a lot easier with that sort of safety net. But I doubt it's something Bristol City Council would look to do.

For a better blueprint you could just as easily look at Man Utd, one of very few clubs who make a profit. Alex Ferguson took over a team full of popular high profile players who hadn't taken the club where they wanted to be. He got rid of fans favourites like McGrath and Whiteside as he felt they were at the centre of a drinking culture at the club and brought in players he thought would be more determined to be successful alongside a mix of younger players.

Ferguson also got heavily involved in the youth set up. Something his predecessors hadn't done. And in time he got it producing quality players where previously it had been failing.

It took him 4 years, which he would never be given these days, but he turned it round. He wasn't popular at first as fans tend to side with players they can associate with. But he did it because he felt he was right and it was best for the club. And to think there were people calling for his head and holding up placards saying "Fergie out".

[Chivs]

I see what you are saying. Obvipusly if our trophy cabinet looked anything like Real Madrid's we'd all be a lot happier - well most of us anyway*.

But I don't think that Real Madrid are a particularly good blueprint for most other clubs. If memory serves me correctly, they had spiralled into debts of around $250 million. This was wiped out by the sale of their training ground for around $400 million.

This all happened amid allegations that the government had illegally used public finances to help Real out of trouble and that planning boundaries had been altered to increase the value of the land.

Clearly if you can spend money like water and have the debt wiped out by local government life is a lot easier with that sort of safety net. But I doubt it's something Bristol City Council would look to do.

For a better blueprint you could just as easily look at Man Utd, one of very few clubs who make a profit. Alex Ferguson took over a team full of popular high profile players who hadn't taken the club where they wanted to be. He got rid of fans favourites like McGrath and Whiteside as he felt they were at the centre of a drinking culture at the club and brought in players he thought would be more determined to be successful alongside a mix of younger players.

Ferguson also got heavily involved in the youth set up. Something his predecessors hadn't done. And in time he got it producing quality players where previously it had been failing.

It took him 4 years, which he would never be given these days, but he turned it round. He wasn't popular at first as fans tend to side with players they can associate with. But he did it because he felt he was right and it was best for the club. And to think there were people calling for his head and holding up placards saying "Fergie out".

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Slinky,

I've added the footnote you forgot to put.

*Apart from those who sit in the Williams, naturally.