screech Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Well they are aren't they, it's difficult to see them not going up automatically the way they are rolling every opponent to one side, 7-0 may have been slightly fortunate but the evidence of their goals scored tally, points towards a side that score for fun anyway, difficult to see them losing a hatful of games at any stage this season, although every team go through a sticky patch at some stage. Will people still say that they will fall away at some point, probably not now, but if there ever was a wake up call to Danny Wilson and the troops of how to go about business in this dreadful division, they certainly would have had it today, I'm not saying we should go into every game and win 7-0, what I am saying is if City truly believed they could get promotion this season, they would have done a similar job to the rubbish teams they dropped points to early in the season. Looks like we may already be playing for second place this season, still there's always next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Unfortunatley this post sums up my exact feelings at the moment. Sadly, despite morale boosting wins at Brentford and against B'muff, it seems already we are drifting away from QPR and Plymouth. HOWEVER, on the plus: a) We've already taken 4 points off QPR and Plymouth this season B) We still have to play them both at home Come on the reds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 We would have to hope for an enormous unbeaten run, possibly throughout January and February and part of March for us to realistically get ourselves in a favourable position before the dreaded month of April, as everyone is very much aware, April will decide whether we are going up automatically or in the lottery of the play offs, if we do end up in the playoffs i fear for us, I have little confidence of us going through a two legged game without coming unstuck, It must stem from the previous failures in them. A plus point for you Phatwill as you are the eternal optimist (you remind me of my boss unfortunately) QPR may have to sell players due to their financial status (fingers crossed it's Gallen, Carlisle, Ainsworth and Rowlands). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cornwallred Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Sadly I have to live near Plymouth and all you hear about down hear is Argyle this and Argyle that. I really can't see us catching them and what makes me so p****** off is that they haven't spent hardly a penny and have got some fairly useful players on free transfers and out of contract in the summer, but we have to remain positive until theres no mathimatical chance of going up automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Yesterday was a freak result for Plymouth. All they've done is beat a relegation candidate, which was to be expected. Forget the score, did anyone really have any doubt that Plymouth would win yesterday? There is still all to play for and Plymouth are by no means certs for top spot. We still have to play all the major contenders in April so the future is in our hands. While there is still a mathematical possibility to achieve the championship we and the club should strive for it - otherwise, what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashcott Boy Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Well are next two games are away to Notts County and home to Chesterfield (7-0 yesterday). Both are in the relegation zone (i think) so it should be six points if we are looking for automatic promotion. 5 wins out of 5 would also be great which would then hopefully materialise into an unbeaten run going into late February. Easier said than done but it is a definite possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 While there is still a mathematical possibility to achieve the championship we and the club should strive for it - otherwise, what's the point? Absolutely spot on - OK we're playing catch-up but what matters most is not what Plymouth did yesterday but what we ourselves do in the 22 matches left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Will people still say that they will fall away at some point, probably not now Anything is possible, injuries, suspensions etc, you never know. One thing I will say though is that some people were expecting Wigan to hit a bad patch last season. What happened? They walked the league, and are now doing very well in the First Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebes Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Talking of freak results, maybe our 5-1 drubbing of Notts Co at the start of the season was. We have a hard set of games to finish the season at home with, but you can either look at it as a negative or a positive chance to beat those just above you. I would be more than happy with 2nd spot, but I still think Plymouth could fade, we just have to make sure we are there to take advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gater2 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 They do look good at the moment, but we've still got to play them at home (what a game that's going to be, if we are 1st and 2nd, west country derby, packed Ashton Gate etc!!), and with a few injuries and suspensions you never know. I dont think it's all over, but I wouldn't bet against them taking 1st place. They better not claim to be the best team in the south west at any time though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Just a thought for you happy clappys: Plymuff have scored just 3 short of double our goals scored and only conceded 6 more. Do you really think we will finish above them? They (and QPR) would have to manage a major collapse in form, and yes its possible seeing as we have done it before, but we sure will have to score a load of goals to go above them. Something with our wonderful £60 striker Peacock, I cant see. Honestly can you see us whacking seven past Chesterfraud, and another five past County? Wonder-son will probably play defensively in both games- difficult teams to break down etc will be the excuse. The top two look set, now all we have to do is get a head start on the likes of Luton etc, and hope our playoff form is better this year- anyone remember Brentford a few years back, a 3-0 home defeat? We played well in the 2nd leg, but lost as a result of the home defeat. Look at the stats: We are we deserve to be: third. thanks to Wonder-sons amazing management skills we are stuck in a rut. By anybodys standards this is an awful Div2, and we really should be doing better. Finally they are currently the best in the West-top placed side, and their gates are going up. Wonder-son and Colin/Steve note!! It is not a very good situation when our nearest West Country rivals are and have been for a few weeks well above, and is a disgrace it is- down to Wonder-son and his Winter Blunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Sorry bucksred but I fail to see how it matters what Plymouth is conceeded - It's not like they have double our points is it. I garuntee that Plymouth will fade and we will finish in the top two. If QPR lose a number of players now then we will win the league. I've been right in every prediction of this nature so far this season (If someone cares to find It I stated that we would be 3rd after christmas sometime in October) Although with Wilkshire gone it may well be a miserable January, which would condem us to the playoff's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 willsbridgered, I sure hope you are right, but bar City, and Rovers most teams top at Xmas make it, and I personally think QPR selling players under financial pressure is our best chance of the automatic slot, and yes you did say 3rd at Xmas, but Wonder-son is the ace other teams have up their sleeve, and our biggest hindrance, just as Sturrock is Plymuffs. If we didnt have Wonder-son, I would go along with the 2nd place, but he has the most frustrating habit of ######g things up, just when we dont need it. We also need a more reliable striker to put the ball away, to turn bore draws to one or more goal wins, and Peacock, just aint it, Judas is on the same number of goals for Chrissake, and he hasnt played every game, like Peacock has. If you turn out to be right fair play to ya, but this team is sooooo inconsistant, it would surprise a saint if they did it. Neither of Plymuff or us would survive in Div 1 as it stands, which is a worry, particularly us with no experience at that level, and strikers who might breach the Trade Descriptions Act!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I do agree with much of what you say there to be fair. I think the doubts about Mr Wilson are justified and his treatment of lita and poor use of the academy does worry me. But then who could repalce him? There's noone I could think of I'd want right now, except Hollowhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Strange that everyone is starting to think that Plymouth are running away with the league. All they have done is string a run of wins together, something that no one else has done or as well. Its funny that 2 of their defeats were at the hands of the teams closest to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 But then who could repalce him? There's noone I could think of I'd want right now, except Hollowhead We're doing ok, thanks very much. Danny Wilson has, so far, kept the team in the running and we shouldn't even be contemplating getting rid, let alone replacing him with someone like Holloway. Quite simply, there is nobody available that could come in and do any better than Wilson is doing right now. Holloway is not the manager people seem to think he is and I would be furious if he even came close to getting a job with BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 The man that blames a bad result on a slope on the Ashton Gate pitch! That shook my confidence, the treatment of Lita destroyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Wonder-son, is as they say, a mystery...... Subbing Miller every game instead of Peacock every game, and not playing Robbo on the right wing, instead he trys Clisty or Wilks proves the man is a liability. Plymuffs two defeats against the teams nearest em prove nowt, if they keep beating everyone else...they are top and unless they slip, not garanteed... all it needs is us to have our usual January mare, a possibility with wilks, Tins, Robbo being out, and for QPR to have to flog players and they stay top, and the rest of the Div will have to try and catch up. The number of goals they score means they will remain a threat, unlike the toothless Wonder-son attack, particularly if this Goodfellow is his only signing. A decent striker should be on Wilsons list, but as usual only he wont be able to see this, and the academy lads will get ignored, and like Rosenior get out in controversial circumstances. Last year I felt we could get promotion, till the playoffs, but this year after the first half dozen games, I have never had confidence in promotion, specially as we always blow the playoffs, one way or other, we normally seem to go up as runners up. Wonder-son should be given his marching orders as soon as it is mathematically impossible to go up, if not sooner. Plymuffs current status is a relection on his management- they aint spent, and are scoring for fun, half a mill for us and we have the highest number of draws in the div, and lowest number of goals scored in the promotion pack..., as well as the worst performance I've seen by a City team: Not good enough Wonder-son!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 Even now it still amuses me every time I hear those words "Plymouth will fade", well if they are fading, boy are we in trouble, I still haven't heard why they will fade, because from where I am looking being top scorers by a mile, losing the least amount of games and sweeping aside nearly all that play them with ease, is a sure sign that they are a strong as ever, everyone will have injuries and suspensions, just depends when you get them, they may be lucky and have them when it least matters when playing the bottom sides at home, we might be unlucky and have a few out on some tricky away matches. Plymouth have got this far on a shoe string, we have spent a lot of money and are still no nearer to going up than we did last year, or the year before that, you can have all the stability you want with a manager, Rochdale are a stable club, they have been in the bottom league for ever and a day, if stability is the only reason Wilson is still here, then we should all just relax and accept we will be in this division for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Holloway is not the manager people seem to think he is and I would be furious if he even came close to getting a job with BCFC. I am interested to know how you square this apparent rubbishing of Ian Holloway's management capabilities (bearing in mind his team are ranked higher than our own in the same division) with your opinion of people on this forum who question Danny Wilson's abilities as a manager. If, by any chance (and let's face it, anything is possible in football), Holloway did become our manager in the future, could this quote of yours (taken from a previous thread) not be used to describe what you have written here?: Yes I know everyone has a go at the team, the manager and/or the board - we all do at one time or another, BUT some people are beginning to believe their own rhetoric... If it wasn't so sad, it would be laughable... Or do you not come under your own description of people on the forum? Which was (in case you've forgotten): a bunch of office workers, welders, builders, chippies, brickies, plumbers, sparkies, salesmen, shop assistants, students and schoolchildren who think they know better than he does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bawno Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Yes plymouth winning 7-0 and scoring 6 goals in 37mins! I think it's safe to say they have automatic promotion. Lets just hope city can get the automatic second spot at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebes Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Simply Red. Gutted and guilty. Edson were you up all night compiling your evidence? You must have a right team of legal eagles :Hmm, yeah that's really funny Tarquin.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I am interested to know how you square this apparent rubbishing of Ian Holloway's management capabilities (bearing in mind his team are ranked higher than our own in the same division) with your opinion of people on this forum who question Danny Wilson's abilities as a manager. If, by any chance (and let's face it, anything is possible in football), Holloway did become our manager in the future, could this quote of yours (taken from a previous thread) not be used to describe what you have written here?: Or do you not come under your own description of people on the forum? Which was (in case you've forgotten): I still stand by what I wrote and do not see any conflict with my comments about Holloway. My quotes about the 'rubbishing' of Danny Wilson were an observation on the way he has been attacked on this forum by people who think they know better than him from a professional football viewpoint. I have not attacked Holloway and stated that he knows less than I do about football, have I? There is nothing conflicting about me having an opinion about who should manage Bristol City. All I am prepared to say about Holloway is that I have information that leads me to believe that he would not make a good manager for Bristol City. Having said that, and although I would be against him becoming manager of BCFC, if it happened he would receive my support and I would take to task anyone that thinks they know better than him with regard to team selection as I have done in support of Danny Wilson. Besides, all this is a bit hypothetical, don't you think? After all, Danny is still our manager and he won't be going anywhere in the summer when we win promotion, will he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotusman Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Wow, promotion & relegation issues already sorted out by the 4th of January, kind of odd I thought there was still 180 points for plymouth,QPR,& City to play for! If we were in either of the shoes of Plymouth or QPR I'd sure be a bit happier but as we all know 3 points for a win changes things quickly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I still stand by what I wrote and do not see any conflict with my comments about Holloway. Sorry, but I do. My quotes about the 'rubbishing' of Danny Wilson were an observation on the way he has been attacked on this forum by people who think they know better than him from a professional football viewpoint. Why, if people question Danny Wilson, are they claiming they know better than him from a professional football viewpoint? If that is your attitude, then we may as well strike off team selection and tactics as avenues of debate on the forum. Do you not question anyone in a professional capacity, then? As, presumably, the argument that 'they know more than you, so shut up' would apply to almost any profession. For example, if your MP comes knocking on your door prior to an election, do you question him/her about issues you feel could be improved, or do you just say "You know much more than me, so I don't feel I can doubt or question anything you say or do."? If it's the latter, then I assume your local MP is very relieved. I have not attacked Holloway and stated that he knows less than I do about football, have I? No, but then people don't have to say that about Wilson, in as many words, for you to drop on them like a ton of bricks. There is nothing conflicting about me having an opinion about who should manage Bristol City. All I am prepared to say about Holloway is that I have information that leads me to believe that he would not make a good manager for Bristol City. And does it ever occur to you that people on this forum may know things about our present manager that would show him not to be quite the all-knowing, shining light you proclaim him to be? Maybe they don't say them publicly, out of loyalty to the club, but that's not to say such information doesn't exist. Having said that, and although I would be against him becoming manager of BCFC, if it happened he would receive my support and I would take to task anyone that thinks they know better than him with regard to team selection as I have done in support of Danny Wilson. I find blind, unquestioning support can be as unhelpful as overly fierce criticism. Indeed, I am seen, on this forum, as a supporter of the current board (which I am to a large degree), but that doesn't mean I won't question their decisions if I feel them to be incorrect. Yet, when I did recently question an issue that concerned me, you replied to my post: By questioning Wilson's commitment to BCFC, you are also questioning the board's commitment to the club - Is that something you really want to do? Why should questioning the board not be something I want to do? You seem to see support as a black and white issue, which it isn't. I cannot believe, that if a manager is plainly using a player in a position that does not suit his game at all, that you will shout down anyone who tries to suggest there is an alternative. Were people not saying that Wilkshire would be far better playing in the middle, long before Wilson finally moved him there? Yes, they were, but that isn't to say they are claiming they would be a better manager of Bristol City, theyare just saying what they believe to be true. Obviously, Wilson has a better insight into things and more knowledge of the game, but to say you will "take to task" anyone who dares to question his judgement or as you put it "thinks they know better than him with regard to team selection", is a stance that suggests you dare not have an opinion for fear of being proved wrong. Besides, all this is a bit hypothetical, don't you think? After all, Danny is still our manager and he won't be going anywhere in the summer when we win promotion, will he? Well, it's "if" and not "when", for starters, which almost makes my point. With the backing Danny's had from the board, allied to the luxury of an Academy, from which to draw young talent, in the Second Division, it really should be a case of "when we win promotion". The very fact it is "if we win promotion", and more than likely will still be so right to the end of the season, is why I have major doubts about Wilson's capabilites. We all want promotion and we all want the club to be a success, but to attempt to belittle anyone who dares to ask questions along the way is far less helpful to the cause than the people who ask the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Ah, the discussion has now focused on why we are not in Plymuffs position, at last. Wonder-son, has had advantages unavailable to other managers in this division, albeit QPR did, and now dont, with the top spend in the div, and an Academy, and a squad of players, most of who, have played a number of 1st team games. He's blown it through baffling decisions where to play players, stubbornly sticking with others, when they have been poor (each time one of the poor players have been dropped, the next couple of games have been better!), ignores academy players who may be worth a start, and looks for unknown/fringe players at other clubs, and apparantly criticising players he feels (alone) have not performed in particular games, and had a go at fans who do the same! Our biggest failing this season is scoring goals, we are p*** poor this time around. Lately we have had the chances, but not the goals, this aint the way to get promoted at all. Good defence is one step, scoring regularly is the second, and as far as possible keeping a settled team, is the third step. Whichever way you look at it, it is a disgrace that we are below Plymuff, and have been below such giants as Colchester, Boredmuff, Luton(In Administration) among others and to be tanked 3-0 by the bottom side in the Div, with their first accurate attempt in 30 or so seconds, of the game starting. Plymuff are there cos they score, and Sturrock, plays to his sides strengths, and dont tinker till he has to. He doesnt have to add to his side at the moment does he? Compare this to Wonder-son....he still appears not to know his 1st team, and this in his fourth(?) season here??? We still need to stengthen the squad, right wing striker, goalkeeper, are all positions I have recently heard mentioned. Fact is we do need a decent striker to partner Miller, and we may well need a right winger, although I think Robbo will fill that role for us, and it may well be that Leroy can do the biz up front in the future, but we need someone now. Rember Steve/Colin have mentioned that if promotion is missed, there may well need to be cutbacks. We as fans want out of this poxy division, as do the club., but I wonder how the manager actually aims to acheive this. We definitely are going backwards this year, no way can you say we are going forwards, and that it is fair to say, is down to Wonder-son. Having a go at those who dont rate Wonder-son is actually sad, because the fact speak for themselves, and yes we may well get promotion, but without some spending it will be back down again, like we did last time, and that was a better team than this one (The promotion season team that is, not the Div 1 side) Things are not well in Wonder-sons Blunderland, and the elves are revolting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Compare this to Wonder-son....he still appears not to know his 1st team, and this in his fourth(?) season here??? We still need to stengthen the squad, right wing striker, goalkeeper, are all positions I have recently heard mentioned. Fact is we do need a decent striker to partner Miller, Mickey Evans anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Ah, the discussion has now focused on why we are not in Plymuffs position, at last. Wonder-son, has had advantages unavailable to other managers in this division, albeit QPR did, and now dont, with the top spend in the div, and an Academy, and a squad of players, most of who, have played a number of 1st team games. He's blown it through baffling decisions where to play players, stubbornly sticking with others, when they have been poor (each time one of the poor players have been dropped, the next couple of games have been better!), ignores academy players who may be worth a start, and looks for unknown/fringe players at other clubs, and apparantly criticising players he feels (alone) have not performed in particular games, and had a go at fans who do the same! Our biggest failing this season is scoring goals, we are p*** poor this time around. Lately we have had the chances, but not the goals, this aint the way to get promoted at all. Good defence is one step, scoring regularly is the second, and as far as possible keeping a settled team, is the third step. Whichever way you look at it, it is a disgrace that we are below Plymuff, and have been below such giants as Colchester, Boredmuff, Luton(In Administration) among others and to be tanked 3-0 by the bottom side in the Div, with their first accurate attempt in 30 or so seconds, of the game starting. Plymuff are there cos they score, and Sturrock, plays to his sides strengths, and dont tinker till he has to. He doesnt have to add to his side at the moment does he? Compare this to Wonder-son....he still appears not to know his 1st team, and this in his fourth(?) season here??? We still need to stengthen the squad, right wing striker, goalkeeper, are all positions I have recently heard mentioned. Fact is we do need a decent striker to partner Miller, and we may well need a right winger, although I think Robbo will fill that role for us, and it may well be that Leroy can do the biz up front in the future, but we need someone now. Rember Steve/Colin have mentioned that if promotion is missed, there may well need to be cutbacks. We as fans want out of this poxy division, as do the club., but I wonder how the manager actually aims to acheive this. We definitely are going backwards this year, no way can you say we are going forwards, and that it is fair to say, is down to Wonder-son. Having a go at those who dont rate Wonder-son is actually sad, because the fact speak for themselves, and yes we may well get promotion, but without some spending it will be back down again, like we did last time, and that was a better team than this one (The promotion season team that is, not the Div 1 side) Things are not well in Wonder-sons Blunderland, and the elves are revolting.. Maybe - but you belittle the argument by your sarcasm and insistence on calling Danny Wilson, Wonderson. I'm all for opinions on the game - who should play where and tactics and so on, but I do find those that choose to get "personal" in this way, damage their argument. Would you accept criticism in your job if people referred to you in a "not so clever" play on words with your name? I think not. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Actually, get it every day, joys of working for American corporations, and the "sarcasm" on Wonder-son is a play on wonder why he is doing that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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