Guest Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 While recently thinking about the east End and hearing about all this dedicated singing area malarky i was thinking about a few things. I'm all for it i would rather stay in ateyo but if it means moving stands i wouldn't mind, HOWEVER. How could this ever be possible to have a dedicated singing area you would need to have a block or two, where in ashton gate is there a block or two where not 1 season ticket holder sits? Could you honestly imagine City turning around and saying you have to move your season ticket this year cause some fans decided they want that seat for their singing? It will be hard to organise and arrange, and whether it could ever happen is extremely doubtful. If we were to of thought about it 6 years ago when the ateyo was first built then yes, but until a New stand is built i cant see the club freeing up space. Thats why i so badly want the East End to work so we will have more games to have the opertunity to make an atmosphere. Cause i can't see us making it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordofthebling Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 but will u continually pay the price of a poor seat to sing?! Even though you or i might, i doubt 200 - 400 people will... thats the problem... East end is where its at right now, but when the stands get built this will need some thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I recon if we show were having a good time and make noise every game and enough of us go in there we could continue to attract more and more every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cidered Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I personally would love a dedicated singing area but have to agree with tommys 1st post the club is not going to not let people get where they want just because some people want to sing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BCFC Matt Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think the club have implemented singing area's in the Atyeo and Dolman (H & B blocks respectively?) This has done nothing to improve the atmosphere because the seating is still reserved. the Club should Dedicate a block in both stands where the seating is kept un-reserved, like you say would that ever be possible - i very much doubt it. I think this is what makes the EastEnd such an ideal option because you dont't have the problems with season ticket holders being moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I personally would love a dedicated singing area but have to agree with tommys 1st post the club is not going to not let people get where they want just because some people want to sing. Why wouldn't they? If you go back to the very first post when I suggested this idea (it was me; I have the post to prove it; and yes, i'm sad enough that I want that recognised WHEN (not if) this happens); you will see that I suggested the club will have to choose a couple of blocks which gives you 1,000+ seats and nominate the area as a dedicated singing area. They can then write to all existing season ticket holders in that area and advise of this policy. As existing people in that area, they would have the right to keep their seat, however, people will move if they don't want noise (club can offer existing people better seats for cheaper price as an incentive to move). Provided the fans that want to sing get a seat in this area, the noise will generate from season 1. By the time season 2 comes round and more and more fans want to sit in this area, the club could free up another block. Add to this the fact that any stubborn people who do not like noise, however, took up their seat in year 1 through D.W. type bloody-mindlesness (sp?) will be seeking new seats from the club. Within 2 to 3 seasons we could have an area with maybe 1,500 odd people who want to make noise. During that period, club work with FFC (Fans Forum Committee) on the acoustics in the nominated stand and suddenly the Gate is alive again and the opposition are not wanting to be there. As I said in a post earlier today (which has been largely ignored); effort by the people who want this needs to be directed now to the FFC; enjoy the East End Saturday then concentrate on this; this needs to get going next season as I doubt the real fruits of labour will truly show until season after next. However, as I also said in the first post. Location is key. I see a lot of Atyeo boys saying behind the net. I can guarantee that many people who watch from the sides as they prefer this view of the game will not want to move and there are a lot of noisy people in Block 'B'. My personal choice would be the last 2 blocks of the Dolman as this is the best area to try to silence the Away noise. Also, there is a lot of scope for offering the existing people in this area better seats more towards the middle of the Dolman or Williams areas. This ain't difficult to sort. However, ideas should be flowing by now; the season will soon be over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I personally would love a dedicated singing area but have to agree with tommys 1st post the club is not going to not let people get where they want just because some people want to sing. Why wouldn't they? If you go back to the very first post when I suggested this idea (it was me; I have the post to prove it; and yes, i'm sad enough that I want that recognised WHEN (not if) this happens); you will see that I suggested the club will have to choose a couple of blocks which gives you 1,000+ seats and nominate the area as a dedicated singing area. They can then write to all existing season ticket holders in that area and advise of this policy. As existing people in that area, they would have the right to keep their seat, however, people will move if they don't want noise (club can offer existing people better seats for cheaper price as an incentive to move). Provided the fans that want to sing get a seat in this area, the noise will generate from season 1. By the time season 2 comes round and more and more fans want to sit in this area, the club could free up another block. Add to this the fact that any stubborn people who do not like noise, however, took up their seat in year 1 through D.W. type bloody-mindlesness (sp?) will be seeking new seats from the club. Within 2 to 3 seasons we could have an area with maybe 1,500 odd people who want to make noise. During that period, club work with FFC (Fans Forum Committee) on the acoustics in the nominated stand and suddenly the Gate is alive again and the opposition are not wanting to be there. As I said in a post earlier today (which has been largely ignored); effort by the people who want this needs to be directed now to the FFC; enjoy the East End Saturday then concentrate on this; this needs to get going next season as I doubt the real fruits of labour will truly show until season after next. However, as I also said in the first post. Location is key. I see a lot of Atyeo boys saying behind the net. I can guarantee that many people who watch from the sides as they prefer this view of the game will not want to move and there are a lot of noisy people in Block 'B'. My personal choice would be the last 2 blocks of the Dolman as this is the best area to try to silence the Away noise. Also, there is a lot of scope for offering the existing people in this area better seats more towards the middle of the Dolman or Williams areas. This ain't difficult to sort. However, ideas should be flowing by now; the season will soon be over! 1. I very much doubt the club would reduce season ticket prices just to improve the atmosphere. 2. Most people will just think bugger it I'm sitting where i want to sit anyway. I would love it to work, anything for atmosphere at the gate, and i would certainly do my best to help out in any way to make it work. However its a lot harder and more complicated than your suggesting. we already have dedicated singing areas in affect but al the club did was stuck a couple of musical notes in two section of the groud and wrote what they meant in the key! Its down to us to improve the atmosphere and the club will keep demanding it from us but will do bugger all to help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 1. I very much doubt the club would reduce season ticket prices just to improve the atmosphere If they are committed to the FFC, reallocating a few hundred season ticket holders to either better seats within same stand or better, more expensive seats in another stand is a one-off hit and would not cost the earth; not so sure they wouldn't do it. 2. Most people will just think bugger it I'm sitting where i want to sit anyway. If you don't mind noise, existing people would not move I agree. However, some people (lets not beat around the bush; we're talking older generations) will take the opportunity; if not season 1, definitely season 2. If they think they are getting something for nothing; i.e. better seat; many would be tempted from season 1. However its a lot harder and more complicated than your suggesting Maybe; not convinced. Certainly seems to me that enough on here are going to extraordinary lengths (copying flyers, rallying lots of mates etc.) just to sit in an area for 1 game; this is for season after season; got to be worth max effort from everybody who likes to sing. we already have dedicated singing areas in affect but al the club did was stuck a couple of musical notes in two section of the groud and wrote what they meant in the key I presume this is Atyeo top-right and Dolman B. There is a wealth of difference in putting a little key on a map (that most people probably glance at then bin) compared to a full on promotion of a much larger area for a specific purpose. Its down to us to improve the atmosphere and the club will keep demanding it from us but will do bugger all to help it. Once again. If they won't, then the FFC may as well not bother to meet. We need to remember that not many clubs have a board who seem (to me anyway) to want to pioneer and re-write the rule book. The SL/CS forum is stage I; this is stage II. It is up to us to give logical and lateral suggestions to the FFC (it would be nice if any members on here would join in at this point!!!), to make this a viable option when put to the board. Quite frankly I think it will fail. My reason for this is purely based on that apart from yourself "tommycidered", nobody else seems willing to comment at length on this either positively or negatively. Even FFC members on here aren't backing me (presumably there is a few?). I have posted about 6 times on this subject since my original post and get virtually no responses. Perhaps I need to join a clique??? Or perhaps we will always have a kak atmosphere at the gate and I should just accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Just to start off with, keep positive every good idea has to have someone who criticises it and prepares you for the future questions that the board will throw at you. It also makes you overcome any problems in the preperation stage rather than the actuall "actioning" stage where you are in the middle of doing it. If you sort at a problem in the preperation it will be a lot easier and quicker to sort out than having to sort it out while in the middle of it. I respect your determination of this very highly and after this you have definately gone up in my estimations and i would just like to say i would love for it to happen and would help in any way seemingly possib;e. Also get the ball rolling now if you want anything to happen by next season. If the club are to do it they would want to sent out notification to already season ticket holders in the specified area, or may even want proof that people would actually go in there, or even want to sent out questionaires to people who sit in various parts of the ground to see where it will be easier and less upsetting to others to do this. When talking to steve about it put these suggestions across and the fact that we are the fans that aren't simply sitting there and supporting the club, we want to change it for the better and if he can't support us in doing this then tell him to never ask us to "make soem noise" as we tried everything in doing this and he has done nothing but knock us back 3 or 4 steps in trying to do this. For me its a matter of money it always is with city and if they think they have to gamble supporters i.e money for atmosphere then its doubtfull, however if you go out proove you have the support of many by setting up a petition type thing where people would sign to acknowledge that they wouldn't mind/would go in this section and get enough signitures then maybe just maybe the ball will start rolling and they will help in the quest for a singing area. One more thing you going in the East End? Could be a good place for you to start your "petition" thing. Once again i will help in any way possible i printed off 1200 fliers for the east end and got a couple of mates to help me hand them out. (as Tom and Lucy refused to help ) We got out must of been 5-6 hundred, and still only 100 odd tickets have been bought/swopped, however still hope for pay on the day people, but if this isn't enough of a success we will not get it back enough to be able to make people generally think Ashton Gate is loud. So this is the only other way forward for me and i would love to be part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I won't be doing anything like sorting a petition etc. at this stage as it is an idea with virtually no grounding for possibility. What I need to know is how I access members of the FFC; I could P.M. the 1 person I know who is definitely a part of this, however, it is unfair to bombard him with what is only a concept at this stage and does not harness the views of the wider audience. IMO (and I did put this to the moderators several weeks ago) was that a dedicated Fans Forum Committee site was set up with specific subject headings (e.g. catering, singing area etc.) where posters can voice ideas and opinions and the FFC members can then formulate the "master plan" by taking the information they need. It needs to be a 2-way thing where we are communicating with people who have direct access with the chairman; I do not (I used to have as an ex-chairman is the son of my step-grandad; that's another story!). This can still easily be accomplished by next season, however, it is getting information to these FFC members which is key; and since the introduction of this new group, I have seen no information on how to liaise with them. By the way; no i'm not going in the EastEnd; I am staying in Block B of the Dolman. I did consider it and even advertised it as part of my signature, however, I have not sat in there since they allowed a few hundred of us in when we played the gas. I hated the view from there but loved the atmosphere with a 1,000 or so gas fans giving us loads. Chesterfield won't compare for me, plus the people I go with did not fancy it whatsoever so I went with the majority view. Presuming we will soon get told how to access the FFC, below are the questions and my personal views (which perhaps need putting on a brand new thread to bring it to the fore?) which need ideas from the fans who want this :- 1. Where should the area be? To maximise the interest from all fans, view of the game must be a factor which is why I think the last couple of blocks of the Dolman (closest away fans is best). Also this area probably has the lowest number of season ticket holders currently. Saying that, can't ignore that there are a lot of noisy fans who prefer the behind the goal in the Ateyo or reclaiming the East end. 2. How do you ensure "singers" can get into this area? Benefits of moving (for people who do not want to be in a noisy area) need to be put in place by the club so that season ticket holders in that area have a choice. Another option is a much tougher stance where they tell these people they need to re-apply for their seats along with the "singers" on a set weekend before all other tickets elsewhere go on sale. To appease the fans who used to sit their and feel they were forced out, it is safe to assume that some good seats will have been freed up by "singers" moving from other areas of the ground. Perhaps the existing people who have chosen to move or failed to get tickets in their area can be given another weekend where they can choose the "best of the rest". 3. How big an area and how many seats to sell? About 2,000 seats would be idea. The club would need to limit sells to season ticket holders to about 75%. It should be noted that if this area becomes a big success, others will get seats just to the side of this area to join in and you will have an ever-increasing area. Anybody ever been to Leeds game? They have a whole end of fans who join in together and the noise is unbelievable (the roof is very high as well, so acoustics can't be great). I can only believe that sometime in the past a similar wave affect happened. 4. How do we build on this year on year? look at the acoustics of the chosen stand, increase the area for singing using same techniques at question 2 etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Build a sepparate, dedicated entrance and set of toilets and the unused block of the Willams could be used to accommodate visiting fans. That would create an atmosphere there as visitors tend to sing. You turn the East End, sorry Wedlock stand, into a dedicated singing area with non reserved seating. You could have a season ticket, but only to the stand in general, not a specific seat. Conduct a poll and if there was a sufficient response, selected blocks of the Atyeo and Dolman stands would be dedicated singing areas. Just as naturist beaches have signs stating that clothing is optional from this point, we could have signs stating that customers seating in these areas would experience singing and/or chanting beyond this point! To bring this about, we just need the club to launch the initiative and find the cash to implement my first proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Snufflelufagus Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think they had this type of problem once a Highbury the response was to ask for Song leaders ie someone who on there own would start a chant and encourage others to join in. Kind of a fans cheerleader. They also do this in Italy but the difference the bloke starting the chants does so by use of a megaphone or over the stadium P.A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest red_pill Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Just a small point (and I know this is hypothetical), but where would these "better" seats for the relocated season ticket holders come from? In terms of price, those who have a s/t in the dolman or williams have the most expensive seats, other than the platinums, and surely someones who spent the best part of £300 on a seat they have selected for themselves from the choice of virtually the whole stadium, aren't going to have many areas they would deem superior. I for one select my seat on basis of the area I'd most like to sit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesco Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think we need an area of the ground which everyone is happy with, not the East End as I don't think that many people like it because of the view but we could perhaps get the club to do a questionaire in the next gate post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KW-BCFC Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I say bring back terracing in the East End. This would encourage more of the atmosphere of old to come back to the gate. Also it would increase capacity and the view would be better. r&r KNOWLE WEST CITY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Just a small point (and I know this is hypothetical), but where would these "better" seats for the relocated season ticket holders come from? In terms of price, those who have a s/t in the dolman or williams have the most expensive seats, other than the platinums, and surely someones who spent the best part of £300 on a seat they have selected for themselves from the choice of virtually the whole stadium, aren't going to have many areas they would deem superior. I for one select my seat on basis of the area I'd most like to sit... When do you ever get a choice of the whole stadium to sit in? Whenever I have been down to get my season ticket, I can choose any available seat anywhere not allocated to a season ticket holder. I can wait until the date has come for season ticket holders to renew in order to see if I can get something better because somebody did'nt renew, however, I might not and would have probably lost my good seat in Block B of the Dolman (along with my daughter and 2 mates I attend with). However, if for arguments sake next weekend the club announced blocks G & H in Dolman are singing areas and the club is selling 1,500 tickets, first come, first serve. You may have a long wait as any existing season ticket holders moving position will surrender their old seats at this time etc. etc. (sure you get the drift). Come Monday morning, they will probably have 500 disgruntled fans who used to sit in G & H blocks and now don't. However, they will also have significantly more seats available in potentially good areas of the ground (middle blocks of Dolman, Williams, behind the Atyeo goal etc. etc.) as the "singers" have made the change. Now the foll. weekend, the disgruntled 500 are allowed to come down on first come, first serve basis again and snap up the seats they want (maybe with a 10% discount this season only); disgruntalment (sp?) would soon be gone! Like I say I don't have all the answers; that's why a place where we can populate with ideas is paramount to the success of this; moderators and/or FFC members, where are you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neo Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 APPENDUM TO LAST POST. "red_pill"; I don't think you will satisfy all fans currently in that area and you might even upset 100/200 enough that they don't come back. However, 2 main issues keep the "floating fans away" IMO :- They don't want to pay a lot of money for a #### game with a #### atmosphere. #### game is beyond our control; atmosphere isn't (albeit we need club assistance in this matter). It is whether the club see the risks in this exercise are outweighed by the potential benefits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest red_pill Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I know that you can't choose your individual seat, but you can normally choose the area in a block at the very least. I really don't believe that anyone would be so unhappy with their seats so as to be happy with this arrangement - virtually a compulsary purchase of their seat, which they may have had for years. I also think that for this to go ahead, the club would need to be pretty sure that a singing area would be the panacea that is being suggested. When I think back to the home games recently where the atmosphere has been at its best, I obviously think of games like the Cardiff derbys last year... they were amazing, hair-standing up on the back of the neck stuff, and difference was we were playing against opposition we actually cared about beating, rather than Rushden or Colchester or whoever who we want to beat, but no real passion is invoked. I really think that the efforts people are going to to try and improve the atmosphere at the gate is excellent, even if I do sound a little negative. I just think that while we're in this god-forsaken division, playing dreary little teams week in and week out, it's going to be an up hill struggle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I feel there is one reason for the lack of sales. Many people wouldn't go down to Ashton Gate just to swap one seat in the ground for another. As, this wasn't freely publicised until after the last home game many people may not have had the chance to get down. I only magaed to get my seat because a mate went down to Ashton Gate bowling. If season tickets were allowed to be swapped on the day I feel more people would go in, especially when you consider there will be lots of rain and wind which will mean people in the front of Atyeo and GWR will get wet. I hope that if enough noise is generated in the East End, there will be a ripple effect into other areas of the ground, with people singing in areas where there isn't normally singing. This happened on Boxing Day once or twice. As for the dedicated singing area, I am all for it. Get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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