Bristol Boy Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 We've won five on the trot and Saturdays crowd was below 12,000. Hull attracted almost 22,000 against Oxford in Div 3. Are the fans waiting in the wings or should we allow for more away supporters IF we go up? If they're in with a shout, clubs like Sunderland will bring 5-6,000 to an ordinary League game at AG and if we can't fill it or organise ourselves, in conjunction with the old bill/safety etc, to at least get 20,000 in, why not give them all of an extended East End? Alternatively, give us the East End back and put them somewhere else, but at the moment it's going to waste. That's whats wrong with the atmosphere, that and the fact that all the lunatics that used to jump up and down and scream and shout, have been banned. The Chairman's already had complaints about next to nothing in the way of bad behaviour on Saturday. Problems with the FA? Christ, what have they done to Cardiff for all the nonsense that's gone on over there?? Sweet FA,Thats what!! The annoying thing about our ground is that the offical capacity is just over 21,000, yet a full house, as we should have against Plymouth & QPR, is 17,500. This may have been done to death, but surely we don't need 3,500 empty seats? I see us, under the right leadership, as being able to do a Charlton-No big money Russian or Jack Walker and they've done the business.Fair play to them. We'll never be a Man Utd or even a Man City in terms of crowds, unless something remarkable happens, but let's be ALL THAT WE CAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Too many partimers - that the problem.... Plus Bristol has always been a footballing backwater without the same passion for the game as places like Liverpool or B'ham. If City were in the Premiership then no doubt we'd be attracting 20k+ if AG was bigger.Bigger gates goes with better quality football. I know of some local people who travel to Villa/Chelsea to see the Prem, who wouldn't think about going to AG or the Rugby Ground unless there was a Premiership side in town. Sad but true. These days its all about being in the promised land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The EE could be the answer. A mate of mine has been to several games, but coming from the Midlands he supports Wolves. When going to games in Bristol, he decided that he would rather go to the rugby ground, than go to Ashton Gate, because of the atmosphere. However after coming on Saturday he told me to tell him of any other games with the same atmosphere, and after telling him he has already said he'll come again next Tuesday. What's more, after 3 or 4 of us talking about the atmosphere all day others say they want to sample it. So I feel it could result in more fans coming to City and less going to the rugby ground, a double bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordofthebling Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 in all honestly the south west aint the hub of football like the north is, thats why all the kids love the man us and liverpools of this world... transport i also thinks a major problem, until i drove i would have had to catch 3 buses, probably on my own as all my other mates at school were man u fans or gasheads! Ah well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrocks Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I remember the crowds instantly dropping and the atmoshere diminishing after all those f##king seats were installed 10 years ago. You can moan about it all you want RG, but after Hillsborough and the Taylor Report you're going to have to accept that this is the way the club needs to go if they want to go up in the leagues. Or do you think that the Hillsborough disaster needs to be repeated just so you can have a sing-song and be able to stand to support City? If iwe were packing out AG week in, week out, this wouldn't be an issue as we could argue the need for more room, but the bottom line is that it is a vicious circle that the club has little room to impact. Opening the East End is a luxury when we are not attracting capacity crowds. The club is still losing money, so it makes sense for them to be frugal when it comes to this issue and keep the Wedlock closed for home fans. We are not the only team to lack atmosphere at home. Even teams like Arsenal suffer from it when they attract capacity crowds. As you probably know, "Is this Highbury or a library?" is a chant favoured by visiting fans. Ripping up the seats is a step backwards and it ain't going to happen so stop going on about it. After 10 years isn't it about time we moved on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gibmonkey Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 You can moan about it all you want RG, but after Hillsborough and the Taylor Report you're going to have to accept that this is the way the club needs to go if they want to go up in the leagues. Or do you think that the Hillsborough disaster needs to be repeated just so you can have a sing-song and be able to stand to support City? RG does have a very good point. I don't think anyone wants to see another hillsborough. However I'm sure that terracing could be designed in a safe way. I do believe a top German team ( the name escapes me ) have terracing which has been designed to prevent another hillsborgh. Basically it consists of lots of small pens. The lack of terracing has taken away a lot of banter. I'm sure many who go to the away games in our league where terracing still exists are aware in the change of atmosphere. When I used to go in the east - end everyone knew that all the noise etc was generated behind the goal so all those singing etc would go there. kids, oldies and families would be on the sides of the middle section. With all seater stadiums we find no un written rules on where to sit. You sit in some places and start singing and people look at u like your mad. I notice steve lansdown was quick to confirm the east end will be used next week as I'm sure it did not go un-noticed by him how much better the gate is when theres more noise. Also the stewards and the police have all of us troublsome people who go to matches and actually show emotion in one place which means the quieter people will not get upset by someone singing next to them. hopefully they'll come again and sit in there quiet corner. However I doubt anything will ever change but if we did'nt have something to moan about we would'nt us this forum. Bring back terracing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 As a less frequent as the years roll by visitor to the Gate, got a couple of points: 1st, I'm told Bristol is the largest City without a team in the Prem, no idea if its true.....if true is p*** poor if we cant get 15,000 a week. I have also noticed just about everywhere I go there will be at least one Cider-red, and most places I've even seen a Gas or two. I think the clubs consistent underperformance over the years dont help either, a consistant start in Div 1, and actually staying there would probably bring back a lot of the fans who dont come back. Lets be honest most people aint going to pay to watch Colchester, Wycombe, Chesterfraud or Hartlepool are they?I will always try to get to the derbies (Gas,Swinden, Baadiff) and this season will get down for QPR, Plymuff and a couple of others. The other problem is some of the Mid Week games are the cracking ones but I cant get down to em, and others too!! Its true the new look rebranded football is, ever since the terracing went, all seater stadiums are lovely visually, not threatening, and this is what the game wanted, the families etc. As a result with more and more of these new fans coming in, especially to clubs like City, our old atmosphere HAS gone. The East End is probably what is needed but how long before some idiot goes for the away supporters, The Club cannot afford fines bans etc, so they wont risk it. That said make somewhere in the ground a singing dancing proper area for the diehard fans, keep the prawns out, and that will give the atmosphere, fortress Ashton back, which will bring in more fans to the club... I prefer away games these days cos the banter is better, and more like the good side of the old days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redrobin108 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Come on guys, lets be honest about this. Bristol is not a footballing city, never has been. The council plounge no money in football. Just like the current situation with the proposed new stadium. The is no real football tradition in the city. If you look at at all the clubs around the midlands and london, most of them are within a hours distance of one another, the nearest club to us is either swindon or cardiff, that says alot. We do have two teams in Bristol, where has Hull has only 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 To say no one in Bristol is interested in football is nonsense. Nearly everylad I've ever known has a passing interest, or has played at least 5 a side. The problem is getting people interested in Bristol City. Possible ways to do this: Cheaper admission Making Ashton Gate an enjoyable place to be Changing the culture of Bristols youth to be fanaticle about their club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Bristol is the second largest City in the country not to have a Premiership club, Sheffield being the biggest by some considerable margin. Hull is not bigger than Bristol as someone has stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I don't think Bristol itself has got such a huge population as is sometimes thought. Every time there is a census it seems to be reduced compared to the previous one. Does anyone know of anywhere you can find a definitive list of conurbations and their relative populations? I was surprised to hear that Wakefield in Yorkshire, for instance, is now a huge place ( about 350,000) and it doesn't even have a football team. Bristol has a huge number of non-Bristolians living in it, and if my old Primary school class is anything to go by then the vast majority of people born here leave Bristol as they get older with a fair number leaving the country as well. Hardly an ideal scenario for a football club wanting to entrench itself in the long-term affections of the local community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pogue mahone Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 i don't go with the argument that bristolians are not passionate about football. i think our crowds are as passionate about the game as anyones, same goes for rovers i don't think many clubs could get the crowds they are getting after the last few years that they have expeienced. one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that bristol has one the largest amateur set-ups for saturday football outside of london, a lot of other places only have significant numbers playing on a sunday, bristol has both saturday and sunday leagues on a big scale. the trick is to get the available watching public to watch their local side, go to parkway or temple meads on a saturday morning and there are plenty of supporters leaving bristol on their way to watch premiership football. this obviously isn't helped by the changing demographics of the city over the past 20 or so years when many businesses and therefore people relocated to bristol from elsewhere, thus have no tie with either local club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I don't think Bristol itself has got such a huge population as is sometimes thought. The population of the City of Bristol was just 380,615 according to the 2001 census. But if you look at a map of Greater Bristol you'll see the City boundaries lie a long way within the actual Bristol connurbation. Thus the huge suburban areas on the outskirts aren't included in the Bristol population figures, e.g. Downend, Mangotsfield, Emersons Green, Staple Hill, Kingswood, Soundwell, Hanham, Longwell Green, Warmley, Cadbury Heath, Oldland Common, Willsbridge, Keynsham, Filton, Monks Park, Patchway, Almondsbury, Bradley Stoke, Stoke Gifford, Little Stoke, Winterbourne, Hambrook etc. Add in a bit of BANES and South Glos and the real population of Bristol is more like 700,000. Which means the combined average home attendance for City and the rovers of around 18,000-19,000 is even more pathetic - about 2.5% of the population. In my mind the lack of long term success is the main reason for the lack of traditional support. The faintest whiff of glory sees thousands of armchair City fans come out of the woodwork, only to disappear again faster than, um, something that disappears really fast (sorry, extended similie failure there). Whatever anyone says, I can't see the situation ever changing (unless we reach the Premiership :Hmm, yeah that's really funny Tarquin.: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Thanks for that City Rocker, i didn't realise some of those areas were not included in the census limits. I still think much of the problem lies in the huge number of incomers to the area. I live fairly close to the ground and i imagine that 40 years ago there would have been City fans coming out of nearly every door on matchdays. As far as i know, we are the only family in our road that actively support City, a fair proportion of the houses do not even contain Bristolians. Perhaps City should actually go door to door in the local area offering initial incentives for these incomers to follow the local club of their adopted City. A tie-up with local Estate Agents could mean a couple of complimentary tickets awaiting the newcomers when they first move in. That could get them in the habit..... And get the players in the local schools with free tickets, shirts, videos etc., so they'll be whining at their parents to take them down the Gate rather than McDonalds etc. Having said all that, i don't think a near 12,000 gate for 3rd grade football is bad at all, but obviously it could be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 You are right- 12,000 ish aint bad for Div 3, but we should be aiming higher... Also how many of the the glamour clubs would keep big gates in this Div, only the Mancs and Sheff Wed have, everyone else has dropped (Barnsley, QPR, Oldham, Brighton) so I guess it aint bad. didnt realise newcomers were so prevelant in Briz, that can only be addressd by encouraging the kids, though footy, or cheap tickets, and eventual rising up the food chain that is the football league ie promotion, which will also bring back lapsed, and additional fans. Seen from this area, Bristol City, and Baadiff are probably the last two clubs anywhere in the UK, on potential fanbase get among the big boys (West of England, and Sarf Wales), and there is no reason with the right conditions- a decent team, and ground why we cant crash the party. I dont buy the Briz aint a football town though, just check the shirts when on holiday, of the lesser life in the league us and the Gas are always represented, look at the forum names, as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Topbuzz Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 This might be seen as a bit of a controvertial post ..In my work place and amongst my mates theres a high number of blacks and in bristol generally theres quite a multi-cultural population what disturbs me is down city i see very few black /asian fans ..what can we do to attract all the population of bristol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 "that poor Policing" Nothing to do with the ticketless Scousers then? And as far as blacks and Asians go, I have seem a few black lads at City, but hardly any asians. But why should we be worried about what ethnic groups are to be seen at Ashton Gate, football is a sport for eveyone isn't it? I think it's time we stopped worrying about forcing football on people we feel underrepresented - If they want to come they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Having been to places like the manor ground I completely agree about the fancing - I can't imagine 5000 people all trying to climb a section of fense at once, or fit through the few gates built into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest two acres red Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I did write that poor Policing and high fencing were the major factors - I did not write that they were the only factors. There's actually a book about the Hillsborough disaster with eye witness accounts contained within it - you can make your own mind up if you read it. Had there not been high fencing at Hillsborough then the fans could of spilled on the pitch instead of being crushed against the fencing. have you got the name of the book r/g? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepers Ball Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 You can moan about it all you want RG, but after Hillsborough and the Taylor Report you're going to have to accept that this is the way the club needs to go if they want to go up in the leagues. Or do you think that the Hillsborough disaster needs to be repeated just so you can have a sing-song and be able to stand to support City? If iwe were packing out AG week in, week out, this wouldn't be an issue as we could argue the need for more room, but the bottom line is that it is a vicious circle that the club has little room to impact. Opening the East End is a luxury when we are not attracting capacity crowds. The club is still losing money, so it makes sense for them to be frugal when it comes to this issue and keep the Wedlock closed for home fans. We are not the only team to lack atmosphere at home. Even teams like Arsenal suffer from it when they attract capacity crowds. As you probably know, "Is this Highbury or a library?" is a chant favoured by visiting fans. Ripping up the seats is a step backwards and it ain't going to happen so stop going on about it. After 10 years isn't it about time we moved on? As far as I'm concerned "The Hillsborough" disaster was nothing to do with lack of seats.Just simply too many bodies in a smaller terracing was the problem. If you ask me The Taylor Report got it wrong by forcing clubs to install seats ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepers Ball Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 What doesnt help us is the fact that bar London,Bristol is supposed to have the largest amateur football set up in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 "If you ask me The Taylor Report got it wrong by forcing clubs to install seats ! " Yes but this is the thing, seats became such a big issue because lord Taylor wanted to "Gentrify" the game. In other words, start taking out of the realms of the working class. Well he succeded, the ******* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 "If you ask me The Taylor Report got it wrong by forcing clubs to install seats ! " Yes but this is the thing, seats became such a big issue because lord Taylor wanted to "Gentrify" the game. In other words, start taking out of the realms of the working class. Well he succeded, the ******* Too true. Furthermore, the undue haste with which *certain* clubs reacted and went all-seater had far more to do with the increased admission charges they were able to introduce, than any safety issues.... in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Sorry, my mistake got it the wrong way round ; Hull 243,000 Bristol 380,000 Which makes it all the more galling that a division 3 club such as Hull attracts a top gate of over 23,000 with an average gate of just under 16,000. Incidentally, Sheffield has a population of 513,000 which makes it the largest City without a Premier club, whilst some surprising stats are ; Manchester 392,000 Newcastle 259,000 Sunderland 280,000 Those 3, with all their tradition get their grounds filled - but the above is the population of the actual towns or cities not the catchment area. But perhaps the best supported club in the UK is Burnley who are averaging the same as City in a relatively bad season with a population of just 89,000 - over 13% of their population. And remember they used to average over 25,000 a few years back. If we managed 13% of the population, we'd be getting close to 50,000 ! It's all about tradition, and Bristol and the South West just don't have any. To a degree, but its mostly due to the fact that City has dismally failed to live up to expectations since their Div 1 hey day.... every time we start to get it together, somhow its always blown, look at the build up to the last promotion, big gates, loads of travelling support, and one season later we were straight back, where we started. for all the disappointment bout the gates,its not that long ago we were getting 6 odd thou, at least they are staying round the 10,000 ish mark, which is a good start to getting and staying up. If we manage to stay up our average gates will go up, as more fans come back, regularly, as the calibre of opposition goes up. Las thing City had quite a hooligan reputation in days gone by, how much does that affect our gates to this day? Sounds stupid but a lot of fans would stay away form the game cos of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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