I Agree With Tins

[Jacs]

I agree with Tins comments in the EP completely.

Why is it OK for an experienced manager like Danny Wilson to take 4 attempts to get us promoted, and STILL FAIL but not OK that Tins hasn't done it in 25% of the time??!!

What do people expect!! Yes, the performances and results this season have been disappointing (and yes I have been to all the games, bar Huddersfield) but I am not particularly concerned.

We have a squad full of good individual players and they will come good. I saw a lot of both Bridges and Stewart last season and they are both class acts who will score a lot of goals for us.

And to those who booed Tinnion before the game had even kicked off on Saturday; why? What did you hope to achieve? Even Tony Pullis was not subject to that kind of treatment. Don't you think that a man who has given 13 years service to our club deserves better? He has already had to put up with this kind of treatment once as a player, and look how he proved people wrong then!

If, at the end of the season, we haven't achieved promotion then criticism (although not personal abuse) is justified but please wait till then to judge. I hope that when, come May, we are sitting pretty with a place in the Championship, those who abused Tinnion on Saturday will have the good grace to apologies & admit they were wrong.

[Guest C.T.I.D]

those who abused Tinnion on Saturday will have the good grace to apologies & admit they were wrong.

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and the ones on here but it will never happen......they will deny all knowledge of abuse altogether

tins has a point,a bloody good point.

[cider head]

as much as i am disappointed with the way city have played so far

i have to agree with tinnion that why cheer a manager that got us

###### all apart from the ldv? and countless play off failures.

as a player and 13 years tinnion is worth more than the booing

he got, as for being a good manager??????? we'll see...

5 points we have and 5 points behined the top team and 4 places

behined that we are 5 points behined,

well you never know, he might prove us wrong yet.

[madmax]

I was asked why I didn't applaud DW on the pitch before the start of the game, to which I replied, he didn't get the cigar!

Close isn't good enough, however, I do agree he should have been given one more season, but many say he went at the right time.

Are these the same fans the stood and applauded Mr Wilson that also slated him after the play offs saying he should resign? Probably.

MM

[WessexPest]

If, at the end of the season, we haven't achieved promotion then criticism (although not personal abuse) is justified but please wait till then to judge.  I hope that when, come May, we are sitting pretty with a place in the Championship, those who abused Tinnion on Saturday will have the good grace to apologies & admit they were wrong.

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I will be unreservedly delighted to apologise if that is the case.

If we are to reserve our criticism until the end of the season, what happens if (as may well be the case the way results/performances are going) we are clearly out of the running by Xmas?

why cheer a manager that got us ###### all apart from the ldv?

You make it sound as if other regimes have won us a heck of lot more trophies. Apart from the odd promotion, the LDV/Freight Rover have been as good as it has got for this club in recent memory.

[WessexPest]

The difference between Tinnion and Wilson, is the circumstances in which they first took control of the football club.

When Wilson took over, we had a bunch of overpaid lard asses in our team such as Peter Beadle, Steve Jones, John Burns, Paul Holland etc and were still recovering from the Tony Pulis era. Wilson turned our fortunes around, got us playing good football and there were geniune signs of progress - We made improvements year on year.

Tinnion however, inherited a very good team that should have been promoted to the Championship, and was easily good enough to make the step up. He dismantled it, got us playing awful football and undid all the work that Danny had put in to the football club. There has also been little progress. There were no signs of improvement over last year, and things seem to have got even worse this year.

That is the difference and why Tinnion deserves so much more criticism than Wilson ever did.

Although Wilson had more than enough opportunities to get us promoted, and he was rightfully sacked IMHO, what the board should have done, was go all out to get a proven manager in such as Ron Moore, Paul Sturrock etc. Now its too late, and these managers are doing well at other clubs whilst we are stuck in a rut under a manager who doesnt have a clue.

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Can find very little, if anything, to disagree with there. One of the most common arguments of the Tinman apologists is that we should "give him time" but why should I when I knew appointing a managerial rookie to do what others who were more experienced had been unable to do (ie get us up) was totally the wrong decision in the first place and that every passing game merely makes things worse?

[Jacs]

If you truly believe that is the case, then shouldn't you be blaming the board for appointing him?

Tinnion was given the job by Lansdown and I still believe that he will get us promoted, but if you believe his very appointment was a mistake then your argument is with the Chairman not Tins.

[WessexPest]

If you truly believe that is the case, then shouldn't you be blaming the board for appointing him?

Tinnion was given the job by Lansdown and I still believe that he will get us promoted, but if you believe his very appointment was a mistake then your argument is with the Chairman not Tins.

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Oh I do, I do. With boards like ours who needs The Gas.

Tins is a City legend but the trouble is, we can't say "Well it's not your fault they appointed you and you aren't up to it, so you can just keep the job regardless of how badly you are doing."

A bit like when KK got the England job, he was obviously not up to it and probably thought that himself but he was talked into it by the media and the fans. Thing was, he should have gone after Euro 2000 but England stuck by him only to see him walk after the Germany debacle.

[Guest Ron]

I was surprised to see him booed on, but heartily joined in with booing him off. If they have been training all week on defending, then obviously Brian isn't the man for the job. Poor performance all round, once again, except 1 or 2 individuals.

[Markman]

I was surprised to see him booed on, but heartily joined in with booing him off. If they have been training all week on defending, then obviously Brian isn't the man for the job. Poor performance all round, once again, except 1 or 2 individuals.

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I support Tin's. This is a crazy assesment. The 2 mistakes were bone head mistakes by players NOT TINMAN - sometimes I think people who post on here have never played football let alone managed teams (and I have done both) and as a manger you do your best but if someone makes a bonehead decision or challenge what can you do? It was not Tins fault but he does need someone to help coach the defence apart from Millen

[Guest Ron]

If Brian wanted someone new in to coach the defence then he would get someone, anyone is better than Millen and himself. He went on at the players on Tuesday for the poor performance, and then on Saturday - we can't defend for peanuts once again! The only advantage we had of putting the defence on the pitch was Heywood's height. The goals may have been 2 mistakes, but they had a heck of a lot more chances than that in the game - and over 60% of possesion.

[Jacs]

It sounds to me like Tins has never been given a chance from day one, simply because he is not a big name.

He has been in the job a little over a year and very, very few mangers achieve success with a new club (no matter how experienced they are) within their first year. It took Fergie a while to succeed at Old Trafford and he was one defeat away from being sacked, and yet look what he achieved.

If come May we have not achieved promotion or we are mathematically out of the hunt earlier, then I am sure Tins we be the first to hold his hand up but until then he deserved everyone's support.

[WessexPest]

He has been in the job a little over a year and very, very few mangers achieve success with a new club (no matter how experienced they are) within their first year. It took Fergie a while to succeed at Old Trafford and he was one defeat away from being sacked, and yet look what he achieved.

But Fergie already had a fantastic track record up at Aberdeen, obviously we could never hope to attract anyone near that calibre of coach but surely we can do better than just giving a legendary player his first managerial gig?

[cider head]

You make it sound as if other regimes have won us a heck of lot more trophies. Apart from the odd promotion, the LDV/Freight Rover have been as good as it has got for this club in recent memory.

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true.

but wilson came with a big name and background and got us nowhere

[Guest Ron]

The transfer budget is completely pointless to discuss, all the players Tinnion needed he brought in on Bosmans (apart from Partridge), and were better than Miller & Peacock..

[Guest Ron]

Not really, as the players that were avaliable for Tinnion weren't avaliable for Willson..

[Keepers Ball]

I'm sorry but I think what Tinnion said is right...and before I'm accused of it ,I'm not a "happy Clapper".

Unfortunately I think we do need change but everything he said is right.Booing the team can't be much good for two teenagers.

He was right in the accusation of Danny Wilson over the "Lita affair".we all said it so why should'nt he ? Because he's more in the public eye ?

He was also right about the applause Wilson got.Ill bet Tinnion would'nt have had a problem if he'd had had a respectful reception himself but he did'nt which in my mind was way out of order ! I applauded Danny but I certainly did'nt boo Tinnion when he came out.

Ok so many of us are'nt happy with things but some of the abuse towards Brian Tinnion are just downright nasty.It was'nt so long ago he was respected, to some legendary.Yet fifteen months on he's becoming a hate figure.But hang on he's the same bloke is'nt he?

What really annoyed me the other night was a question that was asked.

"Do you feel sorry for Brian Tinnion"?

And some of the replies were sh1tty.really Sh1tty.

I feel sorry for the bloke.He WANTS to succeed and its not working.

Personally I no longer believe he can do it.Its too big a job for him.Somewhere else I think he could but not here in our predicament.

And right now after years of being a "Honourary Bristolian" it must be hurting him like hell.

Is it any wonder he's having a ###### rant at the moment?

[Guest Ron]

Maybe booeing is the wrong idea. But how else are fans supposed to express their opinion that Brian should leave?

[Guest hairyshamrock]

The main difference i feel, as stated on this thread already, is that Wilson was brought in with a long term view to getting us up within 3-5 years if memory serves. Tinnion however, told us on his appointment that he would do it in one season... do i need to fill in the blanks...?!

He's made promises his coaching ability couldn't fulfil. It's not his fault, i do feel that the board, specifically Steve L, appointed someone who would appease the fans due to there being such a large amount of support for him in his 11th year here as a player. Great players for any club at any level, do not always make a great coach or manager. Bobby Charlton was a great player for england but he never made it as a coach. Ian Rush could be another example in the same respects (so far) but then you look at Jack Charlton who was a lot less gifted as his brother, or the likes of Mourinho, who was only ever an average player by his own admission, or David Moyes, who was never the sort of player who could have cut it in European football, they were given chances, learned in the right manner, built up slowly and took opportunity as it fell at them. There is a right and a wrong way to go into management, Cloughie used to say that you cannot take off your kit, put on a suit and call yourself a manager, that is how i feel of Tinnion. He went about it all wrong.

[Redtucks]

An alternative slant on things ;

Wilson spent 2m or so on transfers - 600k for Peacock  , 325k for Miller alone. He also had a dozen or so more players in the squad than Tinnion has now. He was reticent to bring the academy players through - Hill and Woodman being a couple of exceptions.

And we are still in this division - may as well have finished 15th every season. The playoffs are worthless unless you win them. Close but no cigar.

So Wilson couldn't do it in 4 years with largely the same core playing squad in most of those years - in year 5, Tinnion takes them over and he couldn't do it either, finishing 7th.

Conclusion ?  The squad had to change. No question of it. Two managers failed with more or less the same core of players, although Tinnion drafted in the excellent Lita as a permanent first team member and the equally excellent Brooker in place of lager lover Peacock and mecurial Roberts et al. He followed that up with Bridges and Stewart (who wanted to be here admittedly). He got shot of the drunkard Coles, and Doherty who needed to move on, and loads of others. Most on here were wholly in agreement with all that (except Lita going) - and with the logic of his other freebie signings.

So, Tinnion has now trimmed the playing squad by around 12 and spent just 350k or so net. Just as SL wanted him to do, and just what Wilson refused to do.

Now we have the problem of this new squad playing competitive matches together. After 5 league games, it aint pretty, it aint productive and the squad looks thin in parts. Tinnion is still trying to find his best formation with the players who can play there and didn't waste time in drafting in Tony Grant when Russell got injured.

That aint a surprise to me, I didn't expect us to steamroller teams early on. Perhaps that's why I am more relaxed about things than those who were boasting on other fans forums, as well as on here that we'll walk the league. Those people set themselves up for a fall and are now blaming Tinnion for their own unrealistically high hopes and others are getting on the bandwagon. 

Sure, there are problems, we have all said as much, but I expect us to be up there challenging at the end of the season.

Why ?  Because we have some players in our squad who would walk into any other team in this division - much like before to be honest, but we also have a very hungry, determined and loyal manager who will sweat blood to get us out of this division and doesn't expect 250k a year for doing it from afar.

The club is now in a much more stable position then when under Wilson - Tinnions management of Lita and trimming of squad has seen to that.

This is not a time for panic but, if anything, all this negativity, supporting the opposition and booing the manager and players, may produce an us and them situation where the manager and players will close rank and become tighter knit. 

If so, expect fewer interviews, less statements and a load of bland platitudes - just like Wilson. I'm sure we saw the start of that with Tinnion not doing the post match interview on saturday.

If so, I don't blame him as whatever he says will now be taken out of context and used to slag him off by the minority.

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Great post cynic.

I agree entirely but could not have put it so clearly.

[Gerry Gows' Tash]

The difference between Tinnion and Wilson, is the circumstances in which they first took control of the football club.

When Wilson took over, we had a bunch of overpaid lard asses in our team such as Peter Beadle, Steve Jones, John Burns, Paul Holland etc and were still recovering from the Tony Pulis era. Wilson turned our fortunes around, got us playing good football and there were geniune signs of progress - We made improvements year on year.

Tinnion however, inherited a very good team that should have been promoted to the Championship, and was easily good enough to make the step up. He dismantled it, got us playing awful football and undid all the work that Danny had put in to the football club. There has also been little progress. There were no signs of improvement over last year, and things seem to have got even worse this year.

That is the difference and why Tinnion deserves so much more criticism than Wilson ever did.

Although Wilson had more than enough opportunities to get us promoted, and he was rightfully sacked IMHO, what the board should have done, was go all out to get a proven manager in such as Ron Moore, Paul Sturrock etc. Now its too late, and these managers are doing well at other clubs whilst we are stuck in a rut under a manager who doesnt have a clue.

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With respect that's rubbish - Wilson never got us playing "good football" remember lee peackock, lee miller ? all he produced was continual underaceivment and football which was on the whole dire - I struggle to remember a single exciting game under wilson apart from the Play off semi against hartlepool and even that was ruined by the farce that followed.

[Spud55]

With respect that's rubbish - Wilson never got us playing "good football" remember lee peackock, lee miller ?  all he produced was continual underaceivment and football which was on the whole dire - I struggle to remember a single exciting game under wilson apart from the Play off semi against hartlepool and even that was ruined by the farce that followed.

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You can't say that. Willson was obviously a great manager who was so tactically aware it was like we were being managed by a demi god, in no way was the man completely clueless and just as cack at tactics as Tinnion is. Jesus with the exception of Willsons first season, there is no way in hell that any of the divisions he managed us in compared even slightly to the strength of this one.

If Willson had stayed we'd be no better off than we are now, Lita would have walked away for about 12.50 because he wouldn't play him, Peacock would still be playing 90 mins a game depsite only scoring 2 goals in about 9 months, players would be placed at equally random positions in the team, at least tins only had a shocker with Stewart on the left, while we have mr Willson with the glorious attempt at putting LOUIS CAREY in central midfield. Come on, wake up people and remember some of the completely moronic decisions the man made.

Jesus Willsons record for upsetting players and screwing them over was way above what tins will ever be capable of, remember Harpal Singh, brought in as cover and then played on the wrong bloody side of the pitch, then we have Fagin who obviously wasn't good enough, to be playing where he was supposed to play, so got stuck in some random position, and is miraculously scoring goals for Hull a division above us. Didn't think Scott Brown was any good, obviously another managerial gem from Mr Willson there.

The man flat out refused to play half our squad on the basis that they wern't overpaid wasters, if that plank had stuck Miller and Robbo up front for most of the last season he was in charge, with Lita coming off the Bench every now and then we wouldn't have needed to witness the single most disgraceful managerial performance i have ever seen at the Mill stad as we would have had a front two that worked together and would have got us the goals needed to go up automatically, but no instead we had to endure Mr i haven't even looked like scoring a goal for 3 months Peacock, every game for 90 mins, while the vastly superior Roberts and Miller were constantly taken off, having their confidence undermined all the time.

[SimplyRed]

I struggle to remember a single exciting game under wilson apart from the Play off semi against hartlepool and even that was ruined by the farce that followed.

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So you didn't find the 11-game winning streak or the 19-game unbeaten run the previous season exciting then?

[Spud55]

So you didn't find the 11-game winning streak or the 19-game unbeaten run the previous season exciting then?

 

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The 11 game winning run in pure football terms was about as exciting as having my eyes removed with a rusty spoon. We were just about scraping wins in the last 5 mins of many of those games, and we didn't dominate many of them, Jesus even our 4-1 win against Brentford was down to 3 goals after the 88th min.

[Guest Ron]

You sure you don't mean 3-1 win?

[Spud55]

You sure you don't mean 3-1 win?

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Yea thats the one. Why did i think it was 4

[Guest Ron]

I must say I was at that match, and we controlled it, they were bloody lucky to get an equaliser (from a set peice I might add ) and Lita came on and controlled the game, we never looked like getting anything other than 3 points in my view.

[Robbored]

An 11 match winning run and Wilson still failed to get City up - 'nuff said....

[Spud55]

I must say I was at that match, and we controlled it, they were bloody lucky to get an equaliser (from a set peice I might add ) and Lita came on and controlled the game, we never looked like getting anything other than 3 points in my view.

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yea and that was one of the few that we did dominate, i didn't say we dominated none of the games i just said that we didn't dominate most of them. But despite our domination, they still managed to equalise from a very well worked set piece in which we failed miserably to track the runner (basic defending). And we only won because of a scrambled goal and then a breakaway goal not long after.