Guest DukeCoxer Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I was watching an article earlier how "It's very imprtant to introduce more black and asian players into the game" I was thinking is there really actually any racism in the game? I never here of it if there is, espescially when I'm watching bcfc. And i would hardly say that people arent selected because of their race, we took Harpal singh on loan and he played for us because he was aquality player, i doubt Leeds United made the point of not playing because he's an Indian. A lot of the "kick racism out of football" campaign was revived when black players I think for Liverpool played in Eastern Europe, where there is a tiny black population on the whole. Hysteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Some of the European games have shown a serious level of abuse against black players. UK seems to be leading the way on this one. Last season at AG myself and others around me had to ask a group of lads in the Ateyo to stop the racist chants and monkey noises when a black player from QPR (I think) got the ball Not something I have heard since, but this was only last season! Overall I think things have improved a lot and the Kick Racism Out of Football Campaign has really made an impact in terms of raising awareness and reducing ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Too be honest i think its all a load of rubbish. You got it exactly right hysteria. Its not as if clubs are saying your black your indian I'm not letting you in. There are laods of blacks in the game now so i don't know what they are on about there, as for indians its down to them trying hard to be a footballer and actually trying to get in. Also i think its all hypocritical if they are solely targetting blacks and asians into the game surely this is discrimination, or racist in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DukeCoxer Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Exactly that is discriminating to whites. But people making monkey noises is pretty disgusting. I just think its another look what were doing scheme by the govt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimatno9 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I don't beleive there is deliberate racism at Ashton Gate but it is disappointing that whilst we have often at least a quarter of our players in the 15 each week who are not white the crowd is almost exclusively white we could do with more terrace support from the black (and asian community). We give away free tickets to school children and i wonder sometimes the club should use positive discrimination to schools with large ethnic groups to encourage support from ethnic minorities. I don't see why this untapped resource is not targetted. I don't care what colour or creed a city supporter is if the extra revenue helps us become a bigger club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpaul Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Looking at it another way, I wonder how many white people are employed at the Asian FA, or the Jamaican FA. Bureaucracy gone mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I'm not quite sure what it was, but on BBC2 just gone 11, there was a report about the number of Black managers/coaches employed by the F.A. It was mentioned that there has only been two black managers in the Premiership since it's induction: Ruud Gullit and John Tigana. There was a bit from John Barnes speaking about his time as Celtic manager. He said that there were certain people that were not happy with his appointment as manager. He did state that he didn't necesarily (sp?) link that to Racism, but that the opinions of some individuals in the football world (not just Celtic) are that with a white manager, there seems to be a certain level of comfort that a black manager would not have. There were also bits from Luther Blisset, Cyril Regis (I think) and Paul Davies (ex-Arsenal). I don't know how much of the report I actually missed, but it was actually quite interesting. Perhaps somebody else (NTTDS) also saw this? As for racism towards players, unfortunately there will probably always be some idiots that think it is ok to hurl abuse at black/asian footballers. Thankfully there are not many around, and that for every Racist football supporter out there, they are outnumbered by the genuine supporters. Personally I don't care if a player is black, white, pink, purple or yellow, as long as they play for the club that I support, then I will be 100% behind that player. The colour of their skin should be irrelevant. I would like to think that the majority of football supporters all around the world also think along the same lines. I think that if you are reported for racism at a game (no matter what club), and are proved to be guilty, then you are served with a ban. I don't think that the ban is for life, however I don't see why it should not be. There is no place for racism, not just in football, but full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Yes racism is wrong, but why has football been singled out? With the exception of a few Brazillians and Japanese, all drivers, mechanics and managers on the Formula 1 circuit are white. Professional snooker and golf area sports that appear to be white dominated. There are not that many black players in professional rugby, Union or League. Hey ho, let's bash football again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I think because footie is so high profile and so many people are involved its bound to get picked at ,and on,than more minority sports which ,as you say,have similar levels of "non-white"participation. There are loads of non white(?) players,why not fans?One of my friends ,who is black and loves his footie,feels uneasy about going to watch live footie as he still thinks he would be out of place somehow and he reckons he would spend the whole game worrying about something kicking off or hearing some racist abuse. This is after i have assured him that i have never heard any thing of the sort at the gate. Seems we still have a long way to go ,as Bobbys post shows,but we seem to be positivly enlightened compared with some of the euro "supporters"who have been in the news.So lets keep it in proportion. Am I still allowed to hate Trevor Francis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cidergeorge Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I'm not quite sure what it was, but on BBC2 just gone 11, there was a report about the number of Black managers/coaches employed by the F.A. It was mentioned that there has only been two black managers in the Premiership since it's induction: Ruud Gullit and John Tigana. There was a bit from John Barnes speaking about his time as Celtic manager. He said that there were certain people that were not happy with his appointment as manager. He did state that he didn't necesarily (sp?) link that to Racism, but that the opinions of some individuals in the football world (not just Celtic) are that with a white manager, there seems to be a certain level of comfort that a black manager would not have. There were also bits from Luther Blisset, Cyril Regis (I think) and Paul Davies (ex-Arsenal). Going back to this point Leroy Rosenior was on Channel 4 news last night. I was speaking to my mate who supports Liverpool and I proudly stated that it was BCFC who helped LR get to his position at Torquay. In general until more players from different minorities get older and decide to take on management / coaching roles the situation will not change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redminster Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Am I still allowed to hate Trevor Francis? Yes, absolutely Although I am yet to hear any racist abuse in 7 years of going down AG on and off, I think that some of the abuse handed out elsewhere is completely sick. Eastern European away games where the majority of the crowd are making monkey noises at Emile Heskey, Louis Saha and the like. Sadly enough, I did hear some racism directed at a Cheltenham player from a couple of Yeovil "fans" when I was watching Cheltenham-Yeovil earlier this season. The other Yeovil fans around them did complain bitterly about this to them though. Not sure if they got chucked out. I'm a Somerset boy and although I have never heard any racism around where I'm from, I was wondering if people on this forum think that there is the potential for more racism from country folk than the City dwellers who live in a more multicultural environment? Or is it the other way round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I was wondering if people on this forum think that there is the potential for more racism from country folk than the City dwellers who live in a more multicultural environment? Or is it the other way round? I've seen more evidence of racism - as in ignorance - from people who were brought up in rural areas. For most of us inner city dwellers, ethnic differences are scarcely even noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Another thing i would like to bring up is that, ain't it obvious that in a country that has predominately white people living in it its going toi have more white people playing sports there? Surely thats simple probability mathmatics? If you look at the ratio to black and asians in England to white people in england and the ratio to black and asians in football to white people in football i can't see there being too much of a difference. So really there is no problem, its just another matter of trying to solve a problem that is not there. as for general racism in football, it may be there slightly but its been taken out of english football as much as it possibly can now so all the F.A really have to do is tel lthe club to keep this kick racism out of football campaign going and absolutely nothing racism or prejudice terms would be at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebes Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 The report is saying that Football has made progress, but that there is still much to be done. Not just at football grounds and clubs, but that at FA level there needs to be greater representation from ethnic minorities and those with decision making possibilities. I believe either 'directly' or 'indirectly' people in society still can have racist attitudes, even when we / they claim we / they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jon Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 This thornly old chestnut is another of the topics that seems to do the rounds on this forum every six months or so. Is there racism in football? Yes. You only have to listen to some of the individual comments from fans to make this clear. But, is this fundamentally a problem with football or with society in general? Bristol is a multi-cultural city and, as City Rocker said, many Bristolians don't necessarily regard individuals as being "a colour". Some still do but then I think that says more about their capacity to change as society modernises (women getting the vote was a backwards step in their eyes). There are a number of black fans who come down the Gate but, in my experience, other black football fans have been put off by the spectre of racism. I can't say that I blame them necessarily: I wouldn't want to go to a football match week in, week out if I was afraid that someone might come up with comments or gestures that I found insulting. Therefore, to provide a safe environment where anyone can sit and watch football should be encouraged, right? Eastern Europe is another matter entirely. Croatia (for example) is not a multi-cultural society and yet the behaviour of their fans towards black players is not unlike the atmosphere in Britain in the 70s and 80s. No-one in Europe at that time regarded racism in football as an issue and so the problem was almost condoned. Thankfully football in Britain has modernised over the last 10 years but to expect Eastern Europe to follow our lead at the click of our fingers is politically correct folly. Yes, they need to kick racism out of football. yes the monkey noises are abhorrant. But we must remember that we only came out of our own glass house ten years ago and so it would be ill advised for us to start throwing stones. Scooter Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Totally agree Jon. We've come a long way in this country since the 80's but let's not all start sucking each others d***s about it just yet. As far as football's concerned the important point about yesterdays report is this. If more suitably qualified people of ethnic minority backgrounds are appointed to managerial, coaching and other senior positions in the game - so as to be more representative of the population as a whole - then in time hopefully the barriers will be broken down. More people from all sections of the community will feel accepted into football and will start attending games. How could anyone not want this? This DOES NOT mean discriminating against white job applicants. Neither is it 'left wing political correctness' or other similar terms that have been bandied about (I'm incorrect most of the time!), it's just good common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 This country has probably the best race relations and cultural mix in the world and the race/black cards are over used and the blame culture is rapidly catching up with that in USA. A question for you, how many black players are in the City, England football, British athletics, England Cricket teams and how many white players are in the Indian, Pakistan or West Indian teams - talk about racism, it's obvious where it lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 This country has probably the best race relations and cultural mix in the world and the race/black cards are over used and the blame culture is rapidly catching up with that in USA. A question for you, how many black players are in the City, England football, British athletics, England Cricket teams and how many white players are in the Indian, Pakistan or West Indian teams - talk about racism, it's obvious where it lies. They say ignorance is bliss. If that is the case, your existence must be spent in a permanently blissful haze, England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 how many black players are in the City, England football, British athletics, England Cricket teams and how many white players are in the Indian, Pakistan or West Indian teams - talk about racism, it's obvious where it lies. Exactly how many white Indian, Pakistani or West Indians do you know then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Precisely my point - whites are not allowed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Precisely my point - whites are not allowed in. I refer you to my earlier reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Precisely my point - whites are not allowed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DukeCoxer Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I just read the thing that qwerty said earlier about possible levels of positive discrimination in regards to letting in ethnic minorities for smalller fees. I'm sorry that is utter B****cks. Why should an asian or black be allowed into a football ground for free because of the colour their skin. That is pretty much discriminating against white people because their white. And are you sure people from ethnic backgrounds would be appreciative of this, it makes them stand out a lot further from the supporters, if you want to create equality you cant push others further down social scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pogue mahone Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Looking at it another way, I wonder how many white people are employed at the Asian FA, or the Jamaican FA. Bureaucracy gone mad firstly, there's no such thing as the "Asian FA" secondly, have you heard of a bloke called stephen constantine ? probably not. anyway at the age of 40 he is one of the youngest coaches to sit on fifa's instruction panel (and is the only englishman). he is also probably the most qualified british coach around. he's earned the equivalent of the obe in nepal, having got his side to the final of the south asia federation cup. (a bit like liechtenstein reaching the european championship final). he is now manager of the indian national side, and with them took the LG cup out of south-east asia for the first time in 32 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Its true thats enormous strides have ben made since the 80's with regard to racism in football,so much so that its almost become forgotten as a subject within the UK. All this recent publicity is a timely reminder to us all to remain vigilant and mantain and improve our currant standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrFaustus Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 firstly, there's no such thing as the "Asian FA" secondly, have you heard of a bloke called stephen constantine ? probably not. anyway at the age of 40 he is one of the youngest coaches to sit on fifa's instruction panel (and is the only englishman). he is also probably the most qualified british coach around. he's earned the equivalent of the obe in nepal, having got his side to the final of the south asia federation cup. (a bit like liechtenstein reaching the european championship final). he is now manager of the indian national side, and with them took the LG cup out of south-east asia for the first time in 32 years. Now now Pogue, don't confuse people with facts. They tend to get in the way of jaundiced old bigots' views of the world. Back to the original question, no it's not hysteria to suggest that racism is alive and kicking in football. If you have the misfortune to travel to Boston (and before anyone says it, I know that's unlikely given your league position), you will discover a large amount of neanderthal racists. The same at S****horpe, Carlisle and many other places. Just because you haven't encountered racism at the Gate, doesn't mean it's not there. Like us, you have your BNP supporters and others on the far right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Not aware of it at the Gate, or among Cider-Reds, or any of the grounds I've been to xcept Chelsea, with the sectarian ####, and anti Jewish stuff when playing Spurs, and even then I'm not sure thats serious. Havent heard monkey or banana stuff either, like there was years ago. It is a problem in eastern & Southern Europe though. Best way to deal with it is to make the b******* choke on their words, by beating them on the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Not aware of it at the Gate, or among Cider-Reds, or any of the grounds I've been to xcept Chelsea, with the sectarian ####, and anti Jewish stuff when playing Spurs, and even then I'm not sure thats serious. Havent heard monkey or banana stuff either, like there was years ago. It is a problem in eastern & Southern Europe though. Best way to deal with it is to make the b******* choke on their words, by beating them on the pitch As I said earlier, there is some in the Ashton Gate crowd, I have heard it myself! We should not get complacent about this - it happens here, maybe not as much as elsewhere, but we do still attract a right wing racist element to football even at Bristol City. What would you do if you heard some at AG chanting racist songs/comments etc???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 As I said earlier, there is some in the Ashton Gate crowd, I have heard it myself! We should not get complacent about this - it happens here, maybe not as much as elsewhere, but we do still attract a right wing racist element to football even at Bristol City. What would you do if you heard some at AG chanting racist songs/comments etc???? Tell em to shut the ##** up! Get a life.. Seriously I've not heard anything, but I hear and read people saying there is. Aint something I think about, as I always take folk on face value, regardless of colour or creed, and expect the same in return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 As I said earlier, there is some in the Ashton Gate crowd, I have heard it myself! We should not get complacent about this - it happens here, maybe not as much as elsewhere, but we do still attract a right wing racist element to football even at Bristol City. What would you do if you heard some at AG chanting racist songs/comments etc???? Sorry last post sounds a bit flip, actually meant to say: to the racist shut the ##** up, Get a life, not you which it looks like now looking at it again Not trying to trivialise the issue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Tell em to shut the ##** up! Get a life.. Seriously I've not heard anything, but I hear and read people saying there is. Aint something I think about, as I always take folk on face value, regardless of colour or creed, and expect the same in return Absolutely agree, if only everyone thought and did the same. Having said that, it is rare at the Gate, the majority of fans/supporters are ace, so wouldn't want to make a big deal out of it, there will always be a small element of morons who are not really there to support the club and enjoy the football . They are the same ones as cause trouble inside and outside the stadium and I wouldn't call them fans Just a shame they associate themselves with football and City on occasions I'd ban them for life personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pogue mahone Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 like many people on this thread i have never heard any racism from city fans, especially not last season when we played cardiff at home or away at swindon. *at this point some of you might like to put some new batteries in your irony detector###### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jon Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 You forgot the Boer and Zulu wars, in the former case, the British army were the first to set up concentration camps. You seem to wish to paint the British army in a overly positive light. Quibbling about history aside, you have a point about "multi-cultural" societies in Eastern Europe. I wasn't trying to excuse the behaviour of fans over there, I was merely pointing out that British fans aren't entirely blameless. As has been the case with the British army in the (albeit distant) past. Scooter Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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