Avon & Somerset Police

[NickJ]

I'm trying to get my head round this.

Today's game was at police insistence made all ticket with an early kick off.

Furthermore, my understanding is that Millwall supporters have to belong to a membership scheme in order to buy tickets.

So by yesterday the police knew exactly how many were coming from Millwall, and who they were.

Furthermore in general, hooligans wont travel under such conditions.

So why the need for what looked like one riot-gear clad copper per Millwall supporter, not to mention mounted police, dogs and a helicopter?

As a council tax payer and Bristol City season ticket holder, I, like thousands of you, paid for that.

I respect the police and in general support what they do (apart from "insisting" that we travel to away games by official coach), but that really was over the top.

[robins72]

Would they not also charge the club a substantial amount of money for policing the game? Very ott for the amount of fans that attended the game today. Although I'm thankful that there was no trouble in the stadium unlike our friends north of the river who went to the County ground today.

[Guest]

Would they not also charge the club a substantial amount of money for policing the game? Very ott for the amount of fans that attended the game today. Although I'm thankful that there was no trouble in the stadium unlike our friends north of the river who went to the County ground today.

Answers simple really just ban all away fans and save the cash; just as we have been from one of our stands to "save cash"

[Robbored]

Maybe the cavalry was a bit OTT but I was glad that the OB were there is force today.I don't want to imagine what would have have happened if they had been there is smaller numbers when the Millwall fans came into the EE and the idiots in the Williams all ran to arravate them.

There could have been a pitch invasion and a mass brawl.

Hooliganism is very carefully planned these days and who knows what the firms had organised? Unfotunately the Millwall boys have a seriously bad reputation,plus theres history between BCFC and them and thats why the OB didn't take any chances.

[Guest]

Maybe the cavalry was a bit OTT but I was glad that the OB were there is force today.I don't want to imagine what would have have happened if they had been there is smaller numbers when the Millwall fans came into the EE and the idiots in the Williams all ran to arravate them.

There could have been a pitch invasion and a mass brawl.

Hooliganism is very carefully planned these days and who knows what the firms had organised? Unfotunately the Millwall boys have a seriously bad reputation,plus theres history between BCFC and them and thats why the OB didn't take any chances.

Close the Williams I say oh hang on we`d only be left with 2 stands then.

[Andy Horsman]

I'm trying to get my head round this.

Today's game was at police insistence made all ticket with an early kick off.

Furthermore, my understanding is that Millwall supporters have to belong to a membership scheme in order to buy tickets.

So by yesterday the police knew exactly how many were coming from Millwall, and who they were.

Furthermore in general, hooligans wont travel under such conditions.

So why the need for what looked like one riot-gear clad copper per Millwall supporter, not to mention mounted police, dogs and a helicopter?

As a council tax payer and Bristol City season ticket holder, I, like thousands of you, paid for that.

I respect the police and in general support what they do (apart from "insisting" that we travel to away games by official coach), but that really was over the top.

Totally agree, but unless these d#ckheads are watched properly, we might end up being penalised for poor crowd control, so quadruple

whammy: club pays/ council tax payers pay/publicans etc lose 1hr trade prior to normal kick off time/transport arrangements go astray.

[kit]

I'm trying to get my head round this.

Today's game was at police insistence made all ticket with an early kick off.

Furthermore, my understanding is that Millwall supporters have to belong to a membership scheme in order to buy tickets.

So by yesterday the police knew exactly how many were coming from Millwall, and who they were.

Furthermore in general, hooligans wont travel under such conditions.

So why the need for what looked like one riot-gear clad copper per Millwall supporter, not to mention mounted police, dogs and a helicopter?

As a council tax payer and Bristol City season ticket holder, I, like thousands of you, paid for that.

I respect the police and in general support what they do (apart from "insisting" that we travel to away games by official coach), but that really was over the top.

I don't quite get what your point is and think to be honest you are coming over as quite naive.

The game was made all ticket I assume so that the police had some control over who came but also so that they had an exact idea of the number of supporters that would be coming.

To think that just because you are a member of a Millwall club means that you would not be a hooligan, would be like assuming just because you are not in prison means that you are not going to commit a crime. There is a very strong liklihood that there is going to be a hooligan presence. Given the history between the clubs, from memory every past meeting at Ashton Gate has involved violence.

The game was moved an hour earlier I assume was so that it was still light at the end of the game so that it was easier to actually see trouble and likely troublesome areas.

All I saw from the Police was them keeping all supporters aeparated, and a trouble free game went ahead. Judging from all that went on from the Millwall fans entering the ground, I would say that a large police presence was warranted.

Ultimately all of the aims of the police were achieved, by not leting the violence happen. Probably with slightly fewer numbers it would have been much harder for them to control this. And the measures that they put in probably acted as a deterrant for more would be hooligans to attend the game. As far as I know the police were not overly aggressive towards anybody. So what is the problem?

Personally I thought the presence of Millwall added a lot of atmosphere to what would have ultimately been one of the most bland games at Ashton Gate, and wish that more teams could create that sort of buzz around the ground. So your argument for not leting them into the ground at all is also worthless to me.

[dezgimed]

I thought they were nobheads today to be honest.

Pretty much tarred every supporter under the age of 30 as a 'youth looking for trouble'.

Which meant I spent bloody ages hanging around waiting for a lift as I was physically prevented from going from A to B, B being the place where my mum was waiting.

Not to mention the Milwall fans. Every one of them standing constantly, the police looked scared to tell them to sit down let alone our stewards.

[slartibartfast]

Maybe the cavalry was a bit OTT but I was glad that the OB were there is force today.I don't want to imagine what would have have happened if they had been there is smaller numbers when the Millwall fans came into the EE and the idiots in the Williams all ran to arravate them.

There could have been a pitch invasion and a mass brawl.

Hooliganism is very carefully planned these days and who knows what the firms had organised? Unfotunately the Millwall boys have a seriously bad reputation,plus theres history between BCFC and them and thats why the OB didn't take any chances.

Yes...and WORST of all..........they could have been SMOKING!!!

[NickJ]

I don't quite get what your point is thought I made it very clearly. does anybody else fail to see my point? no? thought not. and think to be honest you are coming over as quite naive. I may be lots of things but naive aint one of them.

The game was made all ticket I assume so that the police had some control over who came but also so that they had an exact idea of the number of supporters that would be coming. That is exactly my point. Because they knew how many were coming, and who, there was no need for the over the top operation today. Had it not been all ticket, the police numbers would have been justified.

To think that just because you are a member of a Millwall club means that you would not be a hooligan, I will guarantee you that it makes them less likely to have hooligan tendencies. What else would be the point of the membership scheme? would be like assuming just because you are not in prison means that you are not going to commit a crime No, its nothing like that. There is a very strong liklihood that there is going to be a hooligan presence. Given the history between the clubs, from memory every past meeting at Ashton Gate has involved violence. Think you're the one displaying your naive credentials. The last thing people who attend matches with the intent of causing trouble want is for the police to know who they are.

The game was moved an hour earlier I assume was so that it was still light at the end of the game so that it was easier to actually see trouble and likely troublesome areas. I agree that would have been a good reason. However, it is not among the ones which the police gave.

All I saw from the Police was them keeping all supporters aeparated, and a trouble free game went ahead. Judging from all that went on from the Millwall fans entering the ground, I would say that a large police presence was warranted. What went on was 50 Millwall came in late and 30 City fans went to greet them, which was easily sorted by a handful of police.

Ultimately all of the aims of the police were achieved, by not leting the violence happen. Probably with slightly fewer numbers it would have been much harder for them to control this. And the measures that they put in probably acted as a deterrant for more would be hooligans to attend the game. As far as I know the police were not overly aggressive towards anybody. Never said they were. So what is the problem? The problem is that the over the top operation was paid for by us.

Personally I thought the presence of Millwall added a lot of atmosphere to what would have ultimately been one of the most bland games at Ashton Gate, and wish that more teams could create that sort of buzz around the ground. So your argument for not leting them into the ground at all is also worthless to me. But I didnt put up any argument for not letting anyone into the ground. I really do not know what you are talking about.

The police have a difficult job and I for one don't envy them having to deal with football hooliganism. But the fact is, because the police insisted on all ticket, and because of the Millwall scheme, there never was going to be any serious trouble today. So the police numbers were excessive, simple as that.

[Redtucks]

Not to mention the Milwall fans. Every one of them standing constantly, the police looked scared to tell them to sit down let alone our stewards.

So you didn't notice the large groups of City fans in the in the Dolman and Williams stands who also stood for the entire game and appeared only intent on goading the Millwall fans?

[SimplyRed]

I have to say that I find it rather ironic and mildly amusing that these so-called 'fans' - both home and visiting - who are supposed to be the 'salt of the earth' source of the atmosphere and singing, spend the entire game screaming abuse at each other, and never really watch the game at all.

How can you be a football fan if you are more interested in goading the opposition fans through an alcohol-induced stupor than actually watching the game? And please don't tell me "tha's football innit - just a bit o'banter" - it's not, it's incitement to riot - pure and simple.

I wonder exactly how many of our so-called 'singing support' actually saw Murray's goal?

A friend of mine who went to the Forest game, tells me that the Forest fans were above and behind the away support, yet a large number of our 'fans' spent the entire game with their backs to the pitch 'chanting banter' (ie screaming abuse) at them.

[Robbored]

A friend of mine who went to the Forest game, tells me that the Forest fans were above and behind the away support, yet a large number of our 'fans' spent the entire game with their backs to the pitch 'chanting banter' (ie screaming abuse) at them.

They did indeed - and don't forget the posturing - that was really impressive especially when the 'enemy' is out of reach.

[grifty]

They did indeed - and don't forget the posturing - that was really impressive especially when the 'enemy' is out of reach.

I saw a kid do that when we were all leaving the atyeo. Stuck his fingers up. Mr Johnny big balls 150 yards away. 1 yard away Mr Johnny Balls back up inside of him!

[Redtucks]

I have to say that I find it rather ironic and mildly amusing that these so-called 'fans' - both home and visiting - who are supposed to be the 'salt of the earth' source of the atmosphere and singing, spend the entire game screaming abuse at each other, and never really watch the game at all.

How can you be a football fan if you are more interested in goading the opposition fans through an alcohol-induced stupor than actually watching the game? And please don't tell me "tha's football innit - just a bit o'banter" - it's not, it's incitement to riot - pure and simple.

I wonder exactly how many of our so-called 'singing support' actually saw Murray's goal?

A friend of mine who went to the Forest game, tells me that the Forest fans were above and behind the away support, yet a large number of our 'fans' spent the entire game with their backs to the pitch 'chanting banter' (ie screaming abuse) at them.

It probably explains some of the wildly differing opinions on how well or badly we played, who should have been taken off or who shouldn't be in the side.

[Nogbad the Bad]

A friend of mine who went to the Forest game, tells me that the Forest fans were above and behind the away support, yet a large number of our 'fans' spent the entire game with their backs to the pitch 'chanting banter' (ie screaming abuse) at them.

He's exaggerating if he says "a large number of fans" did that. Some may have done but no one i saw had their backs to the pitch for the entire game.

There was a very concerted attempt at intimidation by large groups of Forest fans immediately above us and in the stand to our left.

The City fans certainly weren't going to be to be cowed and reacted to them with rousing counter chants and loud support for the team.

I find attempts to criticise the fantastic City support in the ground that day astonishing.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

I have to say that I find it rather ironic and mildly amusing that these so-called 'fans' - both home and visiting - who are supposed to be the 'salt of the earth' source of the atmosphere and singing, spend the entire game screaming abuse at each other, and never really watch the game at all.

How can you be a football fan if you are more interested in goading the opposition fans through an alcohol-induced stupor than actually watching the game? And please don't tell me "tha's football innit - just a bit o'banter" - it's not, it's incitement to riot - pure and simple.

I wonder exactly how many of our so-called 'singing support' actually saw Murray's goal?

A friend of mine who went to the Forest game, tells me that the Forest fans were above and behind the away support, yet a large number of our 'fans' spent the entire game with their backs to the pitch 'chanting banter' (ie screaming abuse) at them.

The thing that got me was when I just outside the Atyeo end of the ground just before kick-off, 'fans' started leaving the car-park to run out into the park, one can only assume to have 'banter' with Millwall 'fans'.

Also why do the club have so few advance ticket sale kiosks open before every game?

[kit]

The police have a difficult job and I for one don't envy them having to deal with football hooliganism. But the fact is, because the police insisted on all ticket, and because of the Millwall scheme, there never was going to be any serious trouble today. So the police numbers were excessive, simple as that.

Did you at any point see all the late arriving Millwall fans being escorted into the ground??

I would say that if the police wanted to actually keep all fans segregated then the numbers that they had were warranted. The police cannot be everywhere at the same time, if there are only a handful of police officers it will be all to easy to cause trouble. By the sounds of it you only saw the Millwall fans when they were inside of the ground.

I would say that you are being quite naive in thinking that the only place that Millwall fans are going to cause trouble is within the ground. There were hundreds of Millwall fans intent on causing trouble, as were quite a number of City fans. It is a difficult task to keep all of those people under control.

If the police hadn't insisted on making the game all ticket then there would have been an even bigger task for them to carry out, and an even bigger bill for City.

Apart from not leting Millwall fans travel, or making them all go by coach. I really don't see what alternatives the police had if they wanted to keep the whole event incident free. To be honest I think that you are intent on just maoning about something just for the sake of moaning about it. And don't actually sit down and think about the whole picture.

[Seend Red]

I'm trying to get my head round this.

Today's game was at police insistence made all ticket with an early kick off.

Furthermore, my understanding is that Millwall supporters have to belong to a membership scheme in order to buy tickets.

So by yesterday the police knew exactly how many were coming from Millwall, and who they were.

Furthermore in general, hooligans wont travel under such conditions.

So why the need for what looked like one riot-gear clad copper per Millwall supporter, not to mention mounted police, dogs and a helicopter?

As a council tax payer and Bristol City season ticket holder, I, like thousands of you, paid for that.

I respect the police and in general support what they do (apart from "insisting" that we travel to away games by official coach), but that really was over the top.

I personally think the police did a good job keeping these morinic fools apart from each other, there is no doubt the police presence was required to keep order, blame the few hundred City and Millwall fans intent on causing trouble not the police for doing there job.

[NickJ]

They did indeed - and don't forget the posturing - that was really impressive especially when the 'enemy' is out of reach.

Agreed. A bit like goading on internet forums.

[NickJ]

Did you at any point see all the late arriving Millwall fans being escorted into the ground?? Yes. I was late coming in myself. So, thats me and the Millwall supporters, just the same. Late. Your point being?

I would say that if the police wanted to actually keep all fans segregated then the numbers that they had were warranted. Well thats where we differ, and is the point I am making. The police cannot be everywhere at the same time, if there are only a handful of police officers it will be all to easy to cause trouble. By the sounds of it you only saw the Millwall fans when they were inside of the ground. I have said nothing that could lead you to that conclusion.

I would say that you are being quite naive in thinking that the only place that Millwall fans are going to cause trouble is within the ground. I didnt say that, or even suggest it. So I suggest you fine tune your comprehension abilities. There were hundreds of Millwall fans intent on causing trouble, ha ha ha ha ha. there were 541 Millwall fans, apart from a pasty throwing incident what did you see to suggest that? as were quite a number of City fans load of kids milling around. It is a difficult task to keep all of those people under control.

If the police hadn't insisted on making the game all ticket then there would have been an even bigger task for them to carry out, and an even bigger bill for City. A self evident statement, my point being that because they knew exactly who was coming from Millwall, the police presence was OTT.

Apart from not leting Millwall fans travel, or making them all go by coach. I really don't see what alternatives the police had if they wanted to keep the whole event incident free. Its only obvious that if you pour masses of police resource in, you will guarantee it being trouble free. The trouble, its a resource that has to be paid for by somebody. To be honest I think that you are intent on just maoning about something just for the sake of moaning about it. And don't actually sit down and think about the whole picture.

And as for your last couple of sentences, "Kit", if you want to get personal about it, well, here goes.

The massive police presence relative to the numbers of likely proper trouble makers yesterday is paid for as follows:

- Inside the ground, by Bristol City, in other words, me, you, all of us.

- Outside the ground, the local council. In other words, me and hundreds of thousands of council tax payers.

Thats money which is directly taken away from the provision of other services.

Now think about some of the NHS horror stories and tell me that you really think that yesterdays police presence was necessary.

There, thats me thinking about "the whole picture".

Or, in your very simple mind, moaning.

[kit]

And as for your last couple of sentences, "Kit", if you want to get personal about it, well, here goes.

The massive police presence relative to the numbers of likely proper trouble makers yesterday is paid for as follows:

- Inside the ground, by Bristol City, in other words, me, you, all of us.

- Outside the ground, the local council. In other words, me and hundreds of thousands of council tax payers.

Thats money which is directly taken away from the provision of other services.

Now think about some of the NHS horror stories and tell me that you really think that yesterdays police presence was necessary.

There, thats me thinking about "the whole picture".

Or, in your very simple mind, moaning.

The more police there are the lower chance of incidents happening. To be honest I would say that the police operation was well planned and completely adequate in achieving the aims that were probably set out to be achieved. This is the first time all season that there has been the requirement for a heavy police presence at Ashton Gate. Compare that to a few seasons ago when there was need for a heavy presence at a lot more games each season than one or two. This has been achieved on the whole by the massive improvement in policing techniques, such as Helicopters, riot police, Police Horses etc, all of which were seen yesterday. It has taken a lot of investment, and time in order for the police to have reached the stage that they now have.

People can argue for or against football hooliganism, but the fact is that at the moment it is still a liklihood. It is the prerogative of the police to combat hooliganism, and by spending a lot of money yesterday the Police have insured that football hooliganism is becoming more and more a thing of history. By negating any chance of hooliganism happening at a high profile game like yesterday then the hooligan elements are more likely to become disenchanted and bored.

What is your point about the NHS. It has shed loads of money thrown at it, yet it is so badly managed that there is no point throwing more money at it, that will only go and be wasted and not spent wisely. That I would find difficult to say about the policing at yesterdays game.

The police HAVE made hooliganism nearly extinct, and it is because of many similar operations like yesterday. You to just sound like you have a lot of resentment towards the police and don't have an idea of what they are trying to achieve. It wasn't just an opportunity to make money for them. They are not a profit making organisation. There was a genuine threat at the game yesterday and they dealt with it completely.

[Dolman Block B]

I'm trying to get my head round this.

Today's game was at police insistence made all ticket with an early kick off.

Furthermore, my understanding is that Millwall supporters have to belong to a membership scheme in order to buy tickets.

So by yesterday the police knew exactly how many were coming from Millwall, and who they were.

Furthermore in general, hooligans wont travel under such conditions.

So why the need for what looked like one riot-gear clad copper per Millwall supporter, not to mention mounted police, dogs and a helicopter?

As a council tax payer and Bristol City season ticket holder, I, like thousands of you, paid for that.

I respect the police and in general support what they do (apart from "insisting" that we travel to away games by official coach), but that really was over the top.

Nick, once again your thread/post competes with the best!

As for a answer, only the guy incharge of the "ald bill" can answer.

Over the top , very much so.

[Bristol Boy]

Did you at any point see all the late arriving Millwall fans being escorted into the ground??

Those "late arriving fans," were all in Bristol by 12 o'clock.......some arrived at 10.40am.The police held those particular chavs in the Colliseum until about 1pm before moving them.Given the distance and the difficulties one associates with moving said herberts, I would have taken them straight to the ground and out of harms ways much earlier.

I would say that you are being quite naive in thinking that the only place that Millwall fans are going to cause trouble is within the ground. There were hundreds of Millwall fans intent on causing trouble, as were quite a number of City fans. It is a difficult task to keep all of those people under control.

Whilst I would agree that Millwall had about 60/70 of those fans in Bristol.The operation was overkill and I don't think the £7,500, after removing the VAT from £17 each, that City earned from having 561 "guests" in the ground was worth all of this nonsense.

Apart from not leting Millwall fans travel, or making them all go by coach.

Got it in one

.

I would further add that if the point of moving the KO was better light, that was lost by retaining the Millwall fans in the ground after the final whistle.Travel restrictions, official coaches and KO at 12.00 o,clock.That was people that wanted to go Xmas shopping, out for a drink etc, etc could have done all that IN THE LIGHT after they'd seen us win.Common sense to me.If travel restrictions applied to City & Millwall at Swansea, then they should have applied yesterday if we were anticipating trouble.

[Dolman Block B]

I would further add that if the point of moving the KO was better light, that was lost by retaining the Millwall fans in the ground after the final whistle.Travel restrictions, official coaches and KO at 12.00 o,clock.That was people that wanted to go Xmas shopping, out for a drink etc, etc could have done all that IN THE LIGHT after they'd seen us win.Common sense to me.If travel restrictions applied to City & Millwall at Swansea, then they should have applied yesterday if we were anticipating trouble.

Ian, how do you know your quotes 1 and 2?

[NickJ]

The more police there are the lower chance of incidents happening. To be honest I would say that the police operation was well planned and completely adequate in achieving the aims that were probably set out to be achieved. This is the first time all season that there has been the requirement for a heavy police presence at Ashton Gate. Compare that to a few seasons ago when there was need for a heavy presence at a lot more games each season than one or two. This has been achieved on the whole by the massive improvement in policing techniques, such as Helicopters, riot police, Police Horses etc, all of which were seen yesterday. It has taken a lot of investment, and time in order for the police to have reached the stage that they now have.

People can argue for or against football hooliganism, but the fact is that at the moment it is still a liklihood. It is the prerogative of the police to combat hooliganism, and by spending a lot of money yesterday the Police have insured that football hooliganism is becoming more and more a thing of history. By negating any chance of hooliganism happening at a high profile game like yesterday then the hooligan elements are more likely to become disenchanted and bored.

What is your point about the NHS. It has shed loads of money thrown at it, yet it is so badly managed that there is no point throwing more money at it, that will only go and be wasted and not spent wisely. Err, perhaps money could be spent beefing up the management? That I would find difficult to say about the policing at yesterdays game.

The police HAVE made hooliganism nearly extinct, and it is because of many similar operations like yesterday. You to just sound like you have a lot of resentment towards the police and don't have an idea of what they are trying to achieve. It wasn't just an opportunity to make money for them. They are not a profit making organisation. There was a genuine threat at the game yesterday and they dealt with it completely.

You are very wrong about my views of the police. What I resent is not the police, but the waste of a valuable resource.

You are correct that the police have done a very good job in eradicating hooliganism. Cant you see that that is exactly my point? Because the game was all ticket, because the police knew exactly who was coming from Millwall, because hooligans do not in general join membership schemes, the police presence yesterday was, in my opinion, OTT. If you cannot see that point, we are going to go around in circles. Actually, we wont, because I will give up!!

[kit]

You are very wrong about my views of the police. What I resent is not the police, but the waste of a valuable resource.

You are correct that the police have done a very good job in eradicating hooliganism. Cant you see that that is exactly my point? Because the game was all ticket, because the police knew exactly who was coming from Millwall, because hooligans do not in general join membership schemes, the police presence yesterday was, in my opinion, OTT. If you cannot see that point, we are going to go around in circles. Actually, we wont, because I will give up!!

Maybe the police presence was there because the police actually did know who was coming. I just think rather then the police over-reacting it is you who is over-reacting. If the police presence was OTT, then it wasn't very much OTT. Frankly I think you should be commending them on a job well done.

[The Fat Controller]

Would you rather too many police or too few?

[kit]

I personally think the police did a good job keeping these morinic fools apart from each other, there is no doubt the police presence was required to keep order, blame the few hundred City and Millwall fans intent on causing trouble not the police for doing there job.

So do I.

I think that there are people that wish that the police would let each set get on with fighting each other, and instead they decide to criticise the police for doing a great job in eliminating all of the trouble. I think that all of these hooligans bring a great atmosphere to the football, but I am not going to jump on the back of the police just for doing their job well.

[Bristol Boy]

Ian, how do you know your quotes 1 and 2?

If 1 isn't about better light then why 2pm & not 3pm? Perhaps I'm assuming that was the reason and I stand to be corrected.

If by 2 you mean travel restrictions.If the point of all this nonsense is with the sole aim of stopping trouble, then that would tick all the boxes.

If these aren't the points, please PM me about anything else.

[Chivs]

Because the game was all ticket, because the police knew exactly who was coming from Millwall, because hooligans do not in general join membership schemes,

Aren't these statements contradictory? If hooligans don't join membership schemes how would the police know who was coming? You seem to confuse people with tickets for people who came from Millwall.

Your general point about cost effectiveness of the police is sound though. I've always wondered who holds the police accountable. I believe there is a Police Authority but when I've investigated these in the past they seem to be made up of establishment figures who are either ex-Police or ex-pro-Police. I'm sure Red Goblin could explain though!

[WTFiGO!?!]

The Police in this country are regarded as being amongst the most corrupt in Western Europe while their toff/snob Crown Prosecution Service lawyer puppet masters are regarded as THE most class based and corrupt.

Nah, I reckon they're alright you know, in the same way that I think Steve Brooker was always completely overrated anyway and should be given a free transfer to Bath City asap.

[NickJ]

Aren't these statements contradictory? If hooligans don't join membership schemes how would the police know who was coming? You seem to confuse people with tickets for people who came from Millwall.

Your general point about cost effectiveness of the police is sound though. I've always wondered who holds the police accountable. I believe there is a Police Authority but when I've investigated these in the past they seem to be made up of establishment figures who are either ex-Police or ex-pro-Police. I'm sure Red Goblin could explain though!

I was going to allow this thread to become yesterdays fish 'n chip paper, until my republican friend brought it back to page one.

EXCEPT how stupid of me, newspapers can no longer be used for fish 'n chips - good old health & safety brigade, don't you just love 'em.

Anyway, your opening question.

No, the statements are not contradictory. Here is the sentence to which you refer again:

Because the game was all ticket, because the police knew exactly who was coming from Millwall, because hooligans do not in general join membership schemes, the police presence yesterday was, in my opinion, OTT.

There is nothing contradictory about any of that:

The game was all ticket, and for Millwall fans to get a ticket, they have to be a member of their membership scheme. The police therefore knew exactly who was coming. Hooligans do not in general want to join membership schemes. If they don't join the membership scheme, they cant get a ticket. One can conclude therefore that there is likely to be minimal hooligan presence.

The police have a difficult job, they cant always get it right. I'm just saying that on this ocassion, the expense of the operation was in no way justified given the other measures put in place.

[Cooter]

Sorry, I just wanted to know, (about 10-15 minutes into the game), what the heck was all that rubble / debris / asbestos crap etc, that some of the Millwall fans threw towards the lower corner of The Williams Stand?!

It was at the time when the 2nd batch of their "thugs", were making their way into in the ground, with a huge surrounding escourt of what looked like Riot Police... :noexpression:

Was it a late 2nd Coach arriving or something? Or was it just that (by the way they looked), they needed to be surrounded by a ridiculous amount of Armed Police watching their every move?!

[Bristol Boy]

I was not able to attend the Millwall game but would like to make the following statement with regard to the Policing of the game........

The Police in this country are regarded as being amongst the most corrupt in Western Europe while their toff/snob Crown Prosecution Service lawyer puppet masters are regarded as THE most class based and corrupt.

It's about time that the Avon and Somerset police persued the toff/snob fox hunting fraternity with the same vigour that they harass football supporters and their respective football clubs. Fox hunting is now illegal in this country by Act of Parliament and it's about time that the Kommandant of the Avon and Somerset Police initiated prosecutions against those who continue to hunt wildlife with savage packs of dogs.

Get off the fence and say what you think!

[Robbored]

It's about time that the Avon and Somerset police persued the toff/snob fox hunting fraternity with the same vigour that they harass football supporters and their respective football clubs. Fox hunting is now illegal in this country by Act of Parliament and it's about time that the Kommandant of the Avon and Somerset Police initiated prosecutions against those who continue to hunt wildlife with savage packs of dogs.

You are a true legend!

I wish I had voted for you in the forum awards - not sure which catagory..... :noexpression:

[Cooter]

What about this bloke 'ere?!

[Loderingo]

You are a true legend!

I wish I had voted for you in the forum awards - not sure which catagory..... :noexpression:

I did - I think for funniest poster - and much deserved too. Glad you decided to return to the forum, Gobby.