Set up to fail

[DOLMANDAN]

OK so we are playing Brentford FC at home and we the home fans have been given an opportunity to populate our rightfull place in the East end.Now no disrespect to Brentford but they are hardly the most well supported or aggresive that Ag is ever going to see.

My point is then why the presense of all the police.

Call me cynical but i think it was a ploy to evidence an increase in policing charges,plus why did the stewads even attempt to get us to sit down (yea right)because now they can say we asked them and they ignored us as i said set up to fail.By a person although a fan doesnt understand the tradition of the club.

[Drew Peacock]

.By a person although a fan doesnt understand the tradition of the club.

But a person who understands what is involved in running a football club.

[bucksred]

But a person who understands what is involved in running a football club.

But who doesn't understand the FANS of a football club, or what winds them up Drew.

[Portishead Red]

But a person who understands what is involved in running a football club.

Without fans there is no football club.

[Drew Peacock]

Without fans there is no football club.

Without a football club there are no fans

[Portishead Red]

Without a football club there are no fans

Obviously, but in the real world it aint going to happen (although we did come close!)

SL MUST listen to the fans and work TOGETHER to make this club a success.........

[bh red]

OK so we are playing Brentford FC at home and we the home fans have been given an opportunity to populate our rightfull place in the East end.Now no disrespect to Brentford but they are hardly the most well supported or aggresive that Ag is ever going to see.

My point is then why the presense of all the police.

Call me cynical but i think it was a ploy to evidence an increase in policing charges,plus why did the stewads even attempt to get us to sit down (yea right)because now they can say we asked them and they ignored us as i said set up to fail.By a person although a fan doesnt understand the tradition of the club.

part of the deal of actually opening the east end to home fans is the police INSIST on their being a police pressence I believe,

[Drew Peacock]

Obviously, but in the real world it aint going to happen (although we did come close!)

SL MUST listen to the fans and work TOGETHER to make this club a success.........

Obviously, but want he wants to do, what he should do and what he can do are three different things.

Why do you think the club isn't a success?

[Portishead Red]

Obviously, but want he wants to do, what he should do and what he can do are three different things.

Why do you think the club isn't a success?

Maybe thats all about to change....

[pdgifford64]

Maybe thats all about to change....

if thats a reference to Thurs night i think Friendly Ken our half time draw maestro might have blown the surpirise.

PDG

[Drew Peacock]

if thats a reference to Thurs night i think Friendly Ken our half time draw maestro might have blown the surpirise.

PDG

I wasn't listening, I never do, what did he say?

[beau45]

if thats a reference to Thurs night i think Friendly Ken our half time draw maestro might have blown the surpirise.

PDG

I noticed that do you think he was ment to say anything??

[pdgifford64]

I noticed that do you think he was ment to say anything??

if SL was listening it would have been interesting to see his reaction, but i guess he wouldn`t have heard during his entertaining of the guests et al.

PDG

[East End Lad]

if thats a reference to Thurs night i think Friendly Ken our half time draw maestro might have blown the surpirise.

PDG

What did he say?

[bringbacktherobin]

Yes, what did he say?!?

[pdgifford64]

I wasn't listening, I never do, what did he say?

Its not word for word but on explaining the alternatives for the £100 part of the draw.......

...` you can claim the cash or alternatively, a years membership to City2000 which, for reasons that`ll become apparent next week, you`ll not be able to get much longer`

***

[bringbacktherobin]

[East End Lad]

so what does that suggest then?

[pdgifford64]

so what does that suggest then?

You are joking ? yes. `cos i can`t be arsed to explain about the Chairman`s invite on Thursday night for the launch of a new initiative that`s been on threads here for the past two or three weeks with various scenarios bandied about but reading between the lines of that staement it s looking like a revamping/renaming/launching of a new city2000 scheme.....city2007 maybe..........original innit

PDG

[Chivs]

But who doesn't understand the FANS of a football club, or what winds them up Drew.

It says in the programme today that he's missed 4 games all season. How many of us can claim that? I certainly can't.

I think that people who attend a lot of games are more likely to understand fans.

[A Horse With No Name]

OK so we are playing Brentford FC at home and we the home fans have been given an opportunity to populate our rightfull place in the East end.Now no disrespect to Brentford but they are hardly the most well supported or aggresive that Ag is ever going to see.

My point is then why the presense of all the police.

Call me cynical but i think it was a ploy to evidence an increase in policing charges,plus why did the stewads even attempt to get us to sit down (yea right)because now they can say we asked them and they ignored us as i said set up to fail.By a person although a fan doesnt understand the tradition of the club.

The club made a series of announcements over the tannoy to get people to sit down during the first half. These were totally ignored, and this is what the club will use, along with the policing costs (which were way way over the top) to ensure that the EE will never open again.

[red panda]

But who doesn't understand the FANS of a football club, or what winds them up Drew.

If he ever reads this forum (and I hope he doesn't) then he will understand what winds some fans up .....

... absolutely anything he does

[Scrumpy Dziek]

It says in the programme today that he's missed 4 games all season. How many of us can claim that? I certainly can't.

I think that people who attend a lot of games are more likely to understand fans.

If I was in his position it would be closer to zero

[Robbored]

My point is then why the presense of all the police.

Its down to Avon and Somerset Constabularly.They insist on having their officers at AG if the EE is open because of the close proximity of the away fans - regardless of who the opposition is.The football club have no say in the matter.

It cost the club £5500 in police fees today - just to open the EE.

Some would say that money might have been better spent somwhere else.

[dezgimed]

Its down to Avon and Somerset Constabularly.They insist on having their officers at AG if the EE is open because of the close proximity of the away fans - regardless of who the opposition is.The football club have no say in the matter.

It cost the club £5500 in police fees today - just to open the EE.

Some would say that money might have been better spent somwhere else.

Where would you say the money should have been spent?

A whole £5,500..

[Robbored]

Where would you say the money should have been spent?

A whole £5,500..

The academy for a start or maybe towards a long overdue new PA system.Maybe it could go towards better training facilities or any number of worthy options.

[Scrumpy Dziek]

It cost the club £5500 in police fees today - just to open the EE.

Some would say that money might have been better spent somwhere else.

Or maybe the (estimated) 650 in the EE covered that expense?

[KnowleUtd City]

Its down to Avon and Somerset Constabularly.They insist on having their officers at AG if the EE is open because of the close proximity of the away fans - regardless of who the opposition is.The football club have no say in the matter.

It cost the club £5500 in police fees today - just to open the EE.

Some would say that money might have been better spent somwhere else.

Robbored, I very rarely post on this forum but read it a lot, as chairman of the supporters club you must have watched the City and given them a lot of your time for years and years? what i can't understand is, from the content and tone of your posts it appears that you are not keen for the east end to be opened, surley you can remember the good days of a proper atmosphere at football?? the fella's that are lobbying for it to be open and that went in there today are doing their best to vocally support the club, why do you keep making negative comments about it??

[Robbored]

Or maybe the (estimated) 650 in the EE covered that expense?

Lots of the fans in EE were ST holders who swopped their tickets.Plus, if the EE had not been opened most of the 650 would have gone elsewhere in the ground.

The availabilty of the EE didn't add 650 to the attendence.

[Dolman Block B]

Robbored, I very rarely post on this forum but read it a lot, as chairman of the supporters club you must have watched the City and given them a lot of your time for years and years? what i can't understand is, from the content and tone of your posts it appears that you are not keen for the east end to be opened, surley you can remember the good days of a proper atmosphere at football?? the fella's that are lobbying for it to be open and that went in there today are doing their best to vocally support the club, why do you keep making negative comments about it??

wonderfully put

[freezer]

The club made a series of announcements over the tannoy to get people to sit down during the first half. These were totally ignored, and this is what the club will use, along with the policing costs (which were way way over the top) to ensure that the EE will never open again.

Now if that were true, wouldn't it be very sad.

Can any East Enders confirm that they heard the announcements over the tannoy.

[Dolman Block B]

Lots of the fans in EE were ST holders who swopped their tickets.Plus, if the EE had not been opened most of the 650 would have gone elsewhere in the ground.

The availabilty of the EE didn't add 650 to the attendence.

Negitivty Alan for christs sake.............i thought it was class

[Robbored]

Robbored, I very rarely post on this forum but read it a lot, as chairman of the supporters club you must have watched the City and given them a lot of your time for years and years? what i can't understand is, from the content and tone of your posts it appears that you are not keen for the east end to be opened, surley you can remember the good days of a proper atmosphere at football?? the fella's that are lobbying for it to be open and that went in there today are doing their best to vocally support the club, why do you keep making negative comments about it??

At last! - a sensible unbiased reply.

I'm not negative about the EE. I spent well over 25 years standing in there and I do remember the good old days with fond recollection.

My point is that the EE activists have been/are very vocal about the isuue and organised and produced a petition with around 3000 names on it.Fair play to them for doing it.

Today the EE was open and 650 show up.That cost the football club £5500 in police fees.My question is was it worth it? and could that money have been better spent elsewhere?

Now I don't see raising a perfectly valid question as being 'negative'.

All I ever get in replies about the EE is personal abuse and finger wagging.Not one of them is prepared to engage in reasoned debate about it.One guy even said something like 'l dislike you more and more' - why? because I have more ballanced attitude about the EE?

[Scrumpy Dziek]

Lots of the fans in EE were ST holders who swopped their tickets.Plus, if the EE had not been opened most of the 650 would have gone elsewhere in the ground.

The availabilty of the EE didn't add 650 to the attendence.

It's irrelevant if ST holders swopped their their tickets - they don't (currently) have the option to buy a ST in the EE

The fact that 650 people wanted to go in the EE means that the expenses were covered

[Guest tomvickeryBCFC]

Now if that were true, wouldn't it be very sad.

Can any East Enders confirm that they heard the announcements over the tannoy.

i was in there and i didnt hear one announcement, maybe they aired it to the whole ground accept east end so we appear not to be doing as we are told. To be fair it was very loud maybe that is the reason we didnt hear it!!

East East East Enders!!!

[Robbored]

It's irrelevant if ST holders swopped their their tickets - they don't (currently) have the option to buy a ST in the EE

The fact that 650 people wanted to go in the EE means that the expenses were covered

You don't get it do you? Its late - I can't be arsed to explain again.

[megansdad]

If I was in his position it would be closer to zero

So you have experience of the demands of running a multi-million pound company and why sometimes in such a position you might not have the option to be where you would really like to be?

It's irrelevant if ST holders swopped their their tickets - they don't (currently) have the option to buy a ST in the EE

The fact that 650 people wanted to go in the EE means that the expenses were covered

From the second comment I deduce clearly not. If most of those who went in the East End had already purchased STs for other parts of the ground then clearly the added expense incurred in opening the East End can not be covered by them moving there. Only the extra tickets that were sold as a result of opening the EE could do that. I wasn't there but this would appear to have been a loss making venture for the club- hope the improvement in atmosphere was sufficient to merit the investment.

3 more points Tuesday and we will have put ourselves in a great position!

[Guest Ricky BCFC]

i was in there and i didnt hear one announcement, maybe they aired it to the whole ground accept east end so we appear not to be doing as we are told. To be fair it was very loud maybe that is the reason we didnt hear it!!

East East East Enders!!!

I did notice some announcements being made over the tannoy but the fans were so loud that I couldn't make out a single word of what was being said. Could've been telling us to sit down or it could've been something different entirely.

[Scrumpy Dziek]

At last! - a sensible unbiased reply.

I'm not negative about the EE. I spent well over 25 years standing in there and I do remember the good old days with fond recollection.

My point is that the EE activists have been/are very vocal about the isuue and organised and produced a petition with around 3000 names on it.Fair play to them for doing it.

Today the EE was open and 650 show up.That cost the football club £5500 in police fees.My question is was it worth it? and could that money have been better spent elsewhere?

Now I don't see raising a perfectly valid question as being 'negative'.

All I ever get in replies about the EE is personal abuse and finger wagging.Not one of them is prepared to engage in reasoned debate about it.One guy even said something like 'l dislike you more and more' - why? because I have more ballanced attitude about the EE?

You are being negative though

I don't post much either and I didn't sit in the EE today but I'm supporting my fellow supporters, something I'd expect the chairman of the supporters' club to do

If there are sufficient people, ie enough to cover any additional expense, wanting to sit in an specific area of the ground then I'm with them. The fact that they also add to the atmosphere is an added bonus.

If the likes of Swindon and Brentford fans can reclaim their traditional home end then why can't 'we'

[KnowleUtd City]

At last! - a sensible unbiased reply.

I'm not negative about the EE. I spent well over 25 years standing in there and I do remember the good old days with fond recollection.

My point is that the EE activists have been/are very vocal about the isuue and organised and produced a petition with around 3000 names on it.Fair play to them for doing it.

Today the EE was open and 650 show up.That cost the football club £5500 in police fees.My question is was it worth it? and could that money have been better spent elsewhere?

Now I don't see raising a perfectly valid question as being 'negative'.

All I ever get in replies about the EE is personal abuse and finger wagging.Not one of them is prepared to engage in reasoned debate about it.One guy even said something like 'l dislike you more and more' - why? because I have more ballanced attitude about the EE?

Nothing personal here mate, as a hardent City fan (28) I crave for the atmosphere that used to be down the gate, my first recollections of watching the City are from the east end, being sat on one of the rusty red bar's by my dad in 1985 and then as

i got older the buzz of getting behind the goal in the hustle and bustle, Donowa's winning goal, Gavin's winner v Chelsea etc, All i worry about now is that if I was 8 years old going down to a game today there would be no buzz at all, nothing that would keep kids excited about going to watch football, I know what you are talking about ref 3000 names on a petetion, everybody knows that most people who signed it aren't going to go in, swapping tix, no pay on the day etc, but i'm in favour of passionate fans of city being able to air their voice! i'm all for the east end being open, it's a poor view with poor seats but it still attracted 650 Devoted city fans who want to vocally get behind OUR team, we all want promotion and i want young lads to get the tingle that me and you got years ago! Come on you Reds!!

[Scrumpy Dziek]

You don't get it do you? Its late - I can't be arsed to explain again.

Sorry but I think your tiredness means you don't get it - yeah I know, an equally lazy response

Maybe you'll try explaining it in the morning ....

[old spot]

The club made a series of announcements over the tannoy to get people to sit down during the first half. These were totally ignored, and this is what the club will use, along with the policing costs (which were way way over the top) to ensure that the EE will never open again.

Was there????

I was in there and honestly never heard a word of that, but then there was hardly a minute when it was quiet enough to hear the tannoy.

I knew there would be negative comments on here about the EAST END, but as an ex season ticket holder who attended with my wife and two kids only because the EAST END was open, i had a fantastic day today!!

Up until logging onto here i hadn't heard anything negative about it, all people i talked to outside that hadn't been in there were positive and all of us that had been in there were buzzing after!!

I thought the whole ground played their part and the EAST END was a catalyst for this simply because all fans in there wanted to sing and did so as loudly as possible!!

The actual number was probably just right for this as on most occasions it allowed the whole end to pick upon and join in with the same songs!!

It obviously sounded loud to us in there but the players and manager and even the chairman could hear us !!!

GARY JOHNSON certainly thought so along with all of his players who showed their appreciation both during and after the game, and that at the end of the day is what is really important!!

CITY fans should be uniting now behind a hard working squad and thinking how we can all play our part in helping them drag us out of this mediocrity!!

COME ON YOU REDS!!!!

[Economou]

Was there????

I was in there and honestly never heard a word of that, but then there was hardly a minute when it was quiet enough to hear the tannoy.

I knew there would be negative comments on here about the EAST END, but as an ex season ticket holder who attended with my wife and two kids only because the EAST END was open, i had a fantastic day today!!

Up until logging onto here i hadn't heard anything negative about it, all people i talked to outside that hadn't been in there were positive and all of us that had been in there were buzzing after!!

I thought the whole ground played their part and the EAST END was a catalyst for this simply because all fans in there wanted to sing and did so as loudly as possible!!

The actual number was probably just right for this as on most occasions it allowed the whole end to pick upon and join in with the same songs!!

It obviously sounded loud to us in there but the players and manager and even the chairman could hear us !!!

GARY JOHNSON certainly thought so along with all of his players who showed their appreciation both during and after the game, and that at the end of the day is what is really important!!

CITY fans should be uniting now behind a hard working squad and thinking how we can all play our part in helping them drag us out of this mediocrity!!

COME ON YOU REDS!!!!

I was in the Atyeo and the only tannoy message, repeated, was to do with the cops wanting parked cars moved.

Congrats to the EE, brilliant noise, I also felt very envious of you standing for 90 mins.

[Drew Peacock]

Sorry but I think your tiredness means you don't get it - yeah I know, an equally lazy response

Maybe you'll try explaining it in the morning ....

I'll have a go.

a) The 650 fans would have paid to enter the ground anyway.

b) The £5,500 policing cost is therefore an extra expense that the club wouldn't have normally incurred

c) Even if opening the EE had attracted extra people, it would have needed an extra 350+ to make it breakeven

d) Opening it for every game of the season would cost £126,500 in policing, plus paying extra turnstile operators and stewards (I assume all the costs of the catering, payroll, electricity etc is picked up by the catering company), for a loss making club that could be spent better elsewhere

I am sure everyone will agree having it open improved the atmosphere, but keeping it open permanently is not simply saying "the fans want it, it only costs a poxy £5,500, the costs are covered".

[NickJ]

At last! - a sensible unbiased reply.

I'm not negative about the EE. I spent well over 25 years standing in there and I do remember the good old days with fond recollection.

My point is that the EE activists have been/are very vocal about the isuue and organised and produced a petition with around 3000 names on it.Fair play to them for doing it.

Today the EE was open and 650 show up.That cost the football club £5500 in police fees.My question is was it worth it? and could that money have been better spent elsewhere?

Now I don't see raising a perfectly valid question as being 'negative'.

All I ever get in replies about the EE is personal abuse and finger wagging.Not one of them is prepared to engage in reasoned debate about it.One guy even said something like 'l dislike you more and more' - why? because I have more ballanced attitude about the EE?

Well that will be me and here's the reason why.

You do not present a more "balanced and impartial" view.

What you have done from the very first of the campaign to have the EE opened is to point out all the reasons why it shouldn't be, mostly the very same ones as peddled by Lansdown and Sexstone.

You constantly presented the case for the EE not being opened, and now that it has been, you just couldnt wait to come on here and paint your picture of negativity.

The 650 in the EE had to make a special effort to get down to AG before 11am yesterday to either purchase or swap their tickets, an obstacle not put in the way of going in any other part of the ground. Without that obstacle the numbers would have been far higher, but you conveniently ignore that.

You constantly harp on about the £5,500 police costs, but you are too blinkered - whether by choice or whatever - to see the bigger picture that this could just be the start of a process leading to a more permanently vibrant Ashton Gate with the club eventually returning the whole of the EE to home fans and/or the police eventually having to accept that there is no greater risk of trouble in the EE than anywhere else.

Because of your refusal to show support and empathy for the vast majority of Bristol City fans who have either wanted the EE open from the very start of the campaign, or who can now see the merits of it after yesterday, I think it fair to say that, given your position as Chairman of the Supporters Club, you have the respect of very few fans who read this forum.

I think that's reasoned debate. My conclusion is I dislike you, and there are very few people I would say that about, particularly somebody I have never met properly.

[Dolman Block B]

OK so we are playing Brentford FC at home and we the home fans have been given an opportunity to populate our rightfull place in the East end.Now no disrespect to Brentford but they are hardly the most well supported or aggresive that Ag is ever going to see.

My point is then why the presense of all the police.

Call me cynical but i think it was a ploy to evidence an increase in policing charges,plus why did the stewads even attempt to get us to sit down (yea right)because now they can say we asked them and they ignored us as i said set up to fail.By a person although a fan doesnt understand the tradition of the club.

Dan, i said this all along, and totally agree with what you are saying.

The club don't want the East End open to home fans......simple as!

Thats proved by issuing a stupid 11am time to swap over oyur season ticket seat or purchase a ticket.

It is/was major inconvience to many many fans who couldnt get down in the working week, or as early as that on a saturday morning.

Why not 2pm on matchday, or why a time at all.

After all, you can purchase tickets right up to kick off time for any other stand.

The thing is, IT DIDNT FAIL, and i cant really see a reason it cant be used to give the players the "12th" man to push them on to promotion.

[bh red]

question is, you all harp on about the east end however............if/when we get promoted for starters teams are going to want to bring more fans to the gate, which means that there is likely to be less room for city fans in the stand.

and more importantly.......fact is when we do go up, they are likely to bulldoze the stand anyway and build a decent stand? then what will you do?

petition against the east end getting knocked down.

still you might get it opened for a few more games this season, so it's just a case of make the most of it while it's still there

[Robbored]

Because of your refusal to show support and empathy for the vast majority of Bristol City fans who have either wanted the EE open from the very start of the campaign, or who can now see the merits of it after yesterday, I think it fair to say that, given your position as Chairman of the Supporters Club, you have the respect of very few fans who read this forum.

I think that's reasoned debate. My conclusion is I dislike you, and there are very few people I would say that about, particularly somebody I have never met properly.

'The vast majority' Hmmm... not so sure about that. But moving on - Because I don't go around flag waving about the EE and offer up instead a question about 'was it worth it?'- you dislike me.

Following logic then - you must dislike everyone who doesn't share your views which suggests that you must be known as 'Nicky no mates'.Either that or you hang out with people who have the same opinions as you.Your nights out must be fun.

I have mature and reasoned debates with lots of people on a wide range of topics in virtually every area of my life but just because I may not argree with them doesn't mean that I dislike then.In some cases I like them even more if they are able to widen my views and help me see things from a different perspective.Its all about give and take and listening to what others have to say.

Back to the debate. Over a season it would cost the club £126500 to open the EE every league game.Thats a lot of money which in the view of some would be better spent elsewhere.I don't see you replying to that point.

Filling the EE with City fans would be difficult.I don't believe there would be enough interest to make it viable (but could be wrong),plus fans would have to re-locate from the Atyeo as there has to be somwhere to put the away fans.The other difficulty is exit routes.Its simple enough for away fans to leave AG via the Winterstoke car park.They can be policed effectively and don't get to mingle with the home fans very much if at all.Their coaches are easily reachable with all the space available for parking. Now if the away fans were in the Atyeo the exit route is far more difficult for obvious reasons.Maybe thats something else you would like to accuse me of being 'negative' about.

But these are all issues that need to be considered and as Chairman of the Supporters club I have to be open to all points view with issues relating to our members and not all feel as passionately about the EE as you do.I also have to aware of the clubs perspective on all issues involving fans.

[Guest Jungle Jim]

I was in there yesterday, thoroughly enjoyed it, even if say they'd snatched an equaliser at the end I would have still had a good day despite the result. Contrast that with games like Cheltenham the other week, where even if we'd won 1-0 rather than lost it still wouldn't have been much fun due to the complete lack of atmosphere. I think that is the key point in the East End debate, its making AG an enjoyable place to go to even if the team aren't producing the goods on the pitch.

Granted, yesterday's attendance was not affected by having it open. But perhaps as word gets out that atmosphere is back at the Gate then a few more could be tempted back for future games. And in terms of actual numbers I'm sure there were more than a few sat quietly in the Atyeo & Dolman wishing they were in there too, and would go in next time. Of course that would be made easier without the un-necesary restrictions (although I agree the club needs adequate time to re-sell ST seats).

The argument on police costs of £120k assumes that we have no other policed games in the season, clearly not true. Even if that was the correct figure, to me it seems a decent price to put on getting the atmosphere back, and the knock-on effect on the players.

The issue has also brought to light where the supporters true representation is - hard work by volunteer individuals, the ST, and a very supportive editorial in OTIB yesterday. I think others are mistakenly confusing the social supporters club as an organisation that can be expected to campaign on behalf of the fans. It clearly is nothing more than a drinking club, and just needs to acknowledge that by passing the seat on the Board to a group which will try to actively represent the fans.

If we win our remaining home games we are pretty much up, we need to do everything possible to make that happen, and that has to include having City fans making as much noise as possible. Having the EE open will help, but if that doesn't happen then everyone must make the same amount of noise from the other stands, its not impossible!

[NickJ]

Following logic then - you must dislike everyone who doesn't share your views which suggests that you must be known as 'Nicky no mates'.Either that or you hang out with people who have the same opinions as you.Your nights out must be fun.

I bet you were even singing "Nah nah nah nah nah" as you typed that.

[NickJ]

Back to the debate. Over a season it would cost the club £126500 to open the EE every league game.Thats a lot of money which in the view of some would be better spent elsewhere.I don't see you replying to that point.

Actually, I did. I explained in one of my posts on this topic, today, that this could be the start of a process whereby the club and the police are eventually made to see reason and realise that, in fact, there is no greater risk of trouble in the EE than anywhere else, with the outcome therefore that the extra costs are avoided. I could have gone on to point out that a more enjoyable vibrant matchday experience might entice some to attend more regularly, so that in fact eventually the combination of no extra police costs AND extra revenue would actually make opening the EE a profitable venture - I didn't because I assumed most people can work that out for themselves.

You, on the other hand, never did answer this question. What benefits does your attendance at board meetings bring to either the club or the fans?

[NickJ]

Filling the EE with City fans would be difficult.I don't believe there would be enough interest to make it viable (but could be wrong),plus fans would have to re-locate from the Atyeo as there has to be somwhere to put the away fans.The other difficulty is exit routes.Its simple enough for away fans to leave AG via the Winterstoke car park.They can be policed effectively and don't get to mingle with the home fans very much if at all.Their coaches are easily reachable with all the space available for parking. Now if the away fans were in the Atyeo the exit route is far more difficult for obvious reasons.Maybe thats something else you would like to accuse me of being 'negative' about.

Yes, OK, I will.

Firstly, I fail to see how away fans leave the Winterstoke car park without having to "mingle with the home fans very much if at all".

Secondly I have been to grounds all round the country where all 4 sides of the ground are just like the Atyeo exit route, ie just a single street. I've never seen it be a problem. As an away fan, you just walk out like any other. The away fans coaches park down that road. Where's the problem? At AG, the away fans coaches could be facing towards the Mercedes garage, with the road closed by the police for a few minutes to enable them to turn right towards Cumberland Basin, and away from the ground just as quickly.

That's just a suggestion, a bit of lateral thinking - nay plain common sense - would come up with plenty of others.

You always have to emphaise the problems and downside, whereas others see only solutions.

So far as your original point about debating is concerned, I have had plenty of disagreements on here - that cantankerous old bugger Bristol Boy springs to mind (only joking BB) - but usually end up seeing each others point, and/or agree to disagree, and unite in the fact that we are all football and City fans. But there is something about your repeated posts on the EE on the one hand, and your claim on the other that you do not care about whether the EE is opened or not, and related attempts to spoil other peoples enjoyment (my perception), that prevents me from doing that in your case. You confuse "a balanced view" with plain negativity and frankly I think if Lansdown came out tomorrow and said he was 100% in favour of the EE being opened to home fans only, you would change your tune just as quickly.

[Bristol Boy]

It says in the programme today that he's missed 4 games all season. How many of us can claim that? I certainly can't.

I can.I noticed also that David O'Sullivan of Birmingham hasn't missed a home game in FOURTEEN YEARS!!!

I think that people who attend a lot of games are more likely to understand fans.

Not necessarily.There is attending games as a fan and attending games in a capacity as Chairman or as part of the club which, I have to say, is totally different.Terrace supporters who have travelled to games over the last thirty years have a different understanding of the game as Steve is the first to admit that he's newer to football than a lot of us.

The two points that he finds difficult to understand is why fans who want to go on the EE can't all agree to buy tickets and congregate in a singing area elsewhere and why fans want POD although he does now understand that unallocated seating is a good thing.

[Bristol Boy]

I was in there yesterday, thoroughly enjoyed it, even if say they'd snatched an equaliser at the end I would have still had a good day despite the result. Contrast that with games like Cheltenham the other week, where even if we'd won 1-0 rather than lost it still wouldn't have been much fun due to the complete lack of atmosphere. I think that is the key point in the East End debate, its making AG an enjoyable place to go to even if the team aren't producing the goods on the pitch.

Granted, yesterday's attendance was not affected by having it open. But perhaps as word gets out that atmosphere is back at the Gate then a few more could be tempted back for future games. And in terms of actual numbers I'm sure there were more than a few sat quietly in the Atyeo & Dolman wishing they were in there too, and would go in next time. Of course that would be made easier without the un-necesary restrictions (although I agree the club needs adequate time to re-sell ST seats).

The argument on police costs of £120k assumes that we have no other policed games in the season, clearly not true. Even if that was the correct figure, to me it seems a decent price to put on getting the atmosphere back, and the knock-on effect on the players.

The issue has also brought to light where the supporters true representation is - hard work by volunteer individuals, the ST, and a very supportive editorial in OTIB yesterday. I think others are mistakenly confusing the social supporters club as an organisation that can be expected to campaign on behalf of the fans. It clearly is nothing more than a drinking club, and just needs to acknowledge that by passing the seat on the Board to a group which will try to actively represent the fans.

If we win our remaining home games we are pretty much up, we need to do everything possible to make that happen, and that has to include having City fans making as much noise as possible. Having the EE open will help, but if that doesn't happen then everyone must make the same amount of noise from the other stands, its not impossible!

Some excellent points.

SL told us that the costs to open the EE week in, week out are abot £4,500 a game.IF we are promoted we will need to open the EE to home fans on numerous occassions if not for all games.

I thought yesterday was better from an atmosphere point of view and, let's face it, it wasn't a great game.

[cider head]

the thing with the police is at times they are over used and a waste of money, they need to see that if trouble is to happen

then there needs to be opposition that want to take part?

now all i see is too many robo cops on overtime stood in between fans with THEIR BACKS TO THE AWAY FANS

watching city fans every move and not giving a thought about whats behined them? some game you need police

and a game like brentford you don't, so it was a waste of money having so many police not putting fans in their stand.

there is a attitude that the 688 fans are going to storm the away fans at any time?

this his just not the case...

[Bristol Boy]

question is, you all harp on about the east end however............if/when we get promoted for starters teams are going to want to bring more fans to the gate, which means that there is likely to be less room for city fans in the stand.

and more importantly.......fact is when we do go up, they are likely to bulldoze the stand anyway and build a decent stand? then what will you do?

petition against the east end getting knocked down.

still you might get it opened for a few more games this season, so it's just a case of make the most of it while it's still there

IF we are promoted and IF City rebuild the EE, it will probably be entirely for home fans with the away fans being allocated space in The Williams-at either end.I'm adamant that we should replace the EE-I'm also adamant that we shouldn't spend £8m to replace a 5,000 seater stand with a 5,000 seater stand.Now 8-10,000 giving a true ground capacity of circa 25,000 would be something I would support passionately.

If construction impacts on our capacity next season then the away fans will be allocated no more than 1,000 seats in The Williams.The rest of the ground will see almost all of the seats taken up by ST Holders (10,000 ST if we are promoted) will leave only about 4,000 available to what CS describes as "walk up" but who will, in all honesty have to buy in advance.

[Chivs]

Back to the debate. Over a season it would cost the club £126500 to open the EE every league game.Thats a lot of money which in the view of some would be better spent elsewhere.I don't see you replying to that point.

Presumably if City had less players on lower wages that would reduce costs also. Would you support this approach to saving money?

Perhaps you should think beyond a simple cost-benefit analysis. The fans in the EE yesterday improved the atmosphere no end. A general improvement across a season will result in better results. Better results means more points. And points means....

I don't want to go in the EE but appreciate that there are passionate City fans who do. I think this is a balanced view to take. You keep claiming a balanced view to the EE but constantly speak negatively about it.

Your views on the EE are about as balanced as Neil Shipperly on a seesaw.

[Guest]

question is, you all harp on about the east end however............if/when we get promoted for starters teams are going to want to bring more fans to the gate, which means that there is likely to be less room for city fans in the stand.

and more importantly.......fact is when we do go up, they are likely to bulldoze the stand anyway and build a decent stand? then what will you do?

petition against the east end getting knocked down.

still you might get it opened for a few more games this season, so it's just a case of make the most of it while it's still there

Maybe the away fans wil be moved into your area; still I expect you will be quite happy to move

[cider head]

I think we waste more money on players agents than we ever would by putting city fans in the eastend

[A Horse With No Name]

The numerous announcements began with the words "This is a public safety announcement" If you honestly can say that you never heard/paid attention to these, which were only broadcast in the Wedlock Stand, then god help us if there is ever an emergency.

[Barrs Court Red]

I didn't hear a thing.

Wasn't the tanoy system meant to be updated around the ground?

[dezgimed]

I didn't hear a thing.

Wasn't the tanoy system meant to be updated around the ground?

It surely would have been had the club not 'wasted' £5,500 on opening the EE yesterday..

Allegedly.

[Robbored]

Wasn't the tannoy system meant to be updated around the ground?

The last quote I heard for new PA system around AG was £120k and that was some time ago.

[Guest totterd-up]

Today the EE was open and 650 show up.That cost the football club £5500 in police fees.My question is was it worth it? and could that money have been better spent elsewhere? -Robbored

apologies still cant work this quote thing out! anyway

I am not an eastender and am quite happy with my prawn sandwiches and closer proximity to the away fans in the williams, so probably qualify as having an unbiased and balanced perspective on this never-ending tale of good v evil. (take to your corners- whichever you think they are)

From where i sat, the brentford experiment was a success. The atmosphere was much better than normal- the eastend keeping up the idea of 'going' to football as opposed to just watching it. And when you consider that only 650 mainly season ticket holders managed to make a noticable difference to a normally dismal football experience, fairplay to them- and to the argument against it...

1. £5500 per game (marcus stewart's weekly wage or 50 pence per head on our effectively decreasing or at best static weekly turnout)

imo the reason for the decline is not the football but the 'experience'. if i had to pay another 50p per game on my season ticket i would be more than happy if it encouraged some life into the gate. I would rather that 50p got spent once on some moveable fencing but that would be far to sensible, even if it was only for a season or two.

In fact i would like to see that and the eastend opened up to walkins at a reduced cost so as to encourage the younger skinter fan to turn up and make some noise. If we do go up we will need the increased capacity and more importantly the passion to stay there. I would expect to see the east end as full as any other part of the ground if there no restrictions.

2. As for the trouble - if you had fencing not an issue, and potential sparking points would be no different than they are now. If any has brewed recently it has come from the williams that walk out alongside the away fans. seen virtually no trouble this year and if there was, would it be any more likely if those wanting trouble came from a dfferent direction - i think not.

[Spud55]

You are being negative though

I don't post much either and I didn't sit in the EE today but I'm supporting my fellow supporters, something I'd expect the chairman of the supporters' club to do

If there are sufficient people, ie enough to cover any additional expense, wanting to sit in an specific area of the ground then I'm with them. The fact that they also add to the atmosphere is an added bonus.

If the likes of Swindon and Brentford fans can reclaim their traditional home end then why can't 'we'

No he isn't being negative, he's asking perfectly rational and reasonable questions (something that city fans for some reason see as automatically being negative).

All he is saying is that was it really worth it ? It costs 5,500 odd quid to open it per game, and unless those 680 odd fans would otherwise not have come to the game (i'd guess that being as those that mainly want to be in the EE are a certain type, i.e vocal there were none that wouldn't have otherwise come) so the club has made little if any of that money back, as it stands there aren't enough people to cover the expenses, so a lot of your point is null and void.

I'm in now way against the re-opening of the EE as frankly it's a great laugh in there, watching City play both Plymuff and QPR from the EE and all the other games in the last trial, was great, but the fact remains that there were problems in that trial, some morons decided to ruin it for everyone else, and that is something that can't be escaped.

If we can attract enough new interest to cover the cost of the EE, or at least cover 50% of the loss incured by opening it, then i say go for it, but 680 people that in all probability would have come anyway doesn't even go to covering 5-10% of the cost. As long as we can make the loss smaller (i'd agree with opening it for the rest of this season as the expense is negligable) then i would argue that the increased atmosphere would justify a smaller loss over the course of a season, and then mabye we can until it's nocked down look at opening it permanently.

I say open it for the rest of the season, and look into feasability for reducing partially (at least by half) the loss incured and somehow stopping the nobbers turning up in their again like they did the last time it was open for an extended period, and think about opening it permanently if there is the demand. Or mabye even using it only for the last part of a season, say until it's nocked down use it for te last 10 home games of every season, as many (myself included) would go to 5-10 home games in the EE but would probably not want to be stuck there with the poor view for a whole season.

[WTFiGO!?!]

No he isn't being negative, he's asking perfectly rational and reasonable questions (something that city fans for some reason see as automatically being negative).

All he is saying is that was it really worth it ? It costs 5,500 odd quid to open it per game, and unless those 680 odd fans would otherwise not have come to the game (i'd guess that being as those that mainly want to be in the EE are a certain type, i.e vocal there were none that wouldn't have otherwise come) so the club has made little if any of that money back, as it stands there aren't enough people to cover the expenses, so a lot of your point is null and void.

I'm in now way against the re-opening of the EE as frankly it's a great laugh in there, watching City play both Plymuff and QPR from the EE and all the other games in the last trial, was great, but the fact remains that there were problems in that trial, some morons decided to ruin it for everyone else, and that is something that can't be escaped.

If we can attract enough new interest to cover the cost of the EE, or at least cover 50% of the loss incured by opening it, then i say go for it, but 680 people that in all probability would have come anyway doesn't even go to covering 5-10% of the cost. As long as we can make the loss smaller (i'd agree with opening it for the rest of this season as the expense is negligable) then i would argue that the increased atmosphere would justify a smaller loss over the course of a season, and then mabye we can until it's nocked down look at opening it permanently.

I say open it for the rest of the season, and look into feasability for reducing partially (at least by half) the loss incured and somehow stopping the nobbers turning up in their again like they did the last time it was open for an extended period, and think about opening it permanently if there is the demand. Or mabye even using it only for the last part of a season, say until it's nocked down use it for te last 10 home games of every season, as many (myself included) would go to 5-10 home games in the EE but would probably not want to be stuck there with the poor view for a whole season.

You cannot put a price on the spirit and atmosphere that those 688 created Saturday.

There was NO trouble.

It's about time City fans pulled themselves together.

R*vers fans have been pis*ing themselves silly at the perceived lack of unity at this Club. I couldn't defend us, all I said was ''observe the Bentford game and you'll then see''.

Also it's a snowball effect. 3/4 years ago I took a good mate into the EE with me, he loved it. Early next season we sat elsewhere ''well, wtf is this? what's the matter with people (bollox to coming back mate, sorry)'' was his review.

The Police are holding our Club to ransom, double pay over time: say no more.

I heard an estimation that half of those 688 did only turn up on hearing the good news. Three lads I personally know certainly did.

Those in power at my Club have gone with the tide regarding Football, they need to wake up.

ps/ the view isn't that poor.

Robbored has lost my respect. ''Only asking valid questions'' No mate, there's more to it than that.

[cider head]

question is, you all harp on about the east end however............if/when we get promoted for starters teams are going to want to bring more fans to the gate, which means that there is likely to be less room for city fans in the stand.

and more importantly.......fact is when we do go up, they are likely to bulldoze the stand anyway and build a decent stand? then what will you do?

petition against the east end getting knocked down.

still you might get it opened for a few more games this season, so it's just a case of make the most of it while it's still there

the eastend if rebuilt i would welcome as long as there is a area behined the goal that is unreserved for fans to create

what they did saturday, THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE, the eastend was seen as a empty stand for like minded people to get together

without upsetting people who are not in to singing etc.

As for police saturday they were just not needed, a waste of money, some games need police city v millwall

city v brentford did not.

[Seend Red]

OK so we are playing Brentford FC at home and we the home fans have been given an opportunity to populate our rightfull place in the East end.Now no disrespect to Brentford but they are hardly the most well supported or aggresive that Ag is ever going to see.

My point is then why the presense of all the police.

Call me cynical but i think it was a ploy to evidence an increase in policing charges,plus why did the stewads even attempt to get us to sit down (yea right)because now they can say we asked them and they ignored us as i said set up to fail.By a person although a fan doesnt understand the tradition of the club.

Priceless. Even when SL opens the EE he still gets it in the neck-why?

Seems to me the bloke can't win!

[NickJ]

Priceless. Even when SL opens the EE he still gets it in the neck-why?

Seems to me the bloke can't win!

Not sure the criticism is aimed entirely at Lansdown.

But I do think it is fair to make the points, whoever was responsible, that:

a) a requirement to make a special journey to the ground to swap or purchase tickets created an unneccessary obstacle and

b) the police presence, while it may have been insisted upon by the police, was always going to be a waste against a team like Brentford, so perhaps the club could try to influence the police into putting their expensive resources into keeping crime off our streets and

c) the police standing in a line staring at the City fans was unneccessarily provocative and presumably designed to make the City fans feel uncomfortable, for whatever reason.