Crewe police and stewards - thought it was too good to last

[NickJ]

Been out all evening, so missed this earlier ... think we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether this group were thugs of 'City lads' having a bit of a laugh - I don't think we're ever going to convince the other to change his mind.

As for where to demonstrate, yes College Green is a more suitable place than inside an all-seater stadium. So is outside an all-seater stadium. In fact any public place where standing is allowed. Better still, work with groups like the ST to get - as a first step - unreserved seating for vocal fans in a designated part of the ground - ideally the East End - and with campaigns like Stand Up, Sit Down to change the minds of politicians and the footballing powers that be about safe standing.

You will not bring back standing at football grounds by civil disobedience inside stadia - this only pushes the day when terracing may return further and further away, giving the anti-standing brigade the ammunition they need to say 'Look, this lot can't behave themselves and follow simple rules - it'll be chaos if we allow standing'. To achieve your aims, you have to be a lot smarter in how you get there. You have to play the long game.

I support opening the EE, I support unreserved seating for vocal fans and I support the introduction of safe standing areas - but it won't happen as long as fans try to achieve these things by confrontational rather than collaborative means.

I see.

Some idiot passes a law that says I cannot stand up, and I have to campaign, play the long game, to be allowed to stand up?

Well lets start here.

"Please, Mr whoever-says-I-cannot stand up, may I stand up please?

Whats that you say? Its not safe?

But I stand up at work, I stand up at rugby. I stand up when I have a p$ss. I even stand up on the underground in London, surely thats rather unsafe?

No? Only apples to football matches? Alright then.

What might happen, exactly? I might fall over? Of course!

I mean, its not as though I get enough practice the rest of the week, is it?

Well how about, Mr whoever-says-I-cannot stand up, let's say I'm prepared to take that risk. And how about if I tell you I have a whole bunch of mates prepared to do the same. So you could have a special little area, just for us. Reckless I know, but hey! we're just crazy guys!

Still no?

So when may I ask again?

Next year?

Why, thankyou.

How may I express my gratitude?

Just sign up to another season of being bossed around by educationally subnormal pillocks, sat in my red plastic seat, waving my regulation club issue red piece of A4 sized plastic, repeating Come on you Reds when I'm told to and generally licking the wotsit of our esteemed football authorities and club officials?

How very kind of you.

How about if I tell you, Mr whoever-says-I-cannot stand up, to eff off, because I'm just about fed up with it, and I cannot be arssed to play the long game?"

One of us, my friend Blagdon Red, is as nutty as this chocolate bar I'm stuffing in my gob right now. And it aint me. Woof woof.

[Flaxbourton Red]

blagdon red, yeah your right about the seat, she did refuse to give it up, funny how alcohol messes my arguements up.

It's a funny old time we are going through. We moved quite quickly away from hooligansim in football, now we are faced with new horrors,

rampant gambling forced down our necks by our own football clubs, smoking bans in the name of our health yet subjected to increased provision of alcohol and fatty foods within grounds (bad for health you know) and more gambling, criminalisation of standing, ticket prices rising in order to enable footballers to earn offensively high wages, rich clubs retaining huge proportions of TV money, whilst small clubs wither on the vine.

[Guest Sim]

You say Tomayto I say Tomato.

If you don't think "no surrender to the IRA" isn't a far right wing song and is bound to draw police presence, then words fail me and we might as well agree to disagree.

The sad thing is that a lot of stewards and Police are just looking for an excuse to hammer law abiding football fans for their own juvenile and macho reasons, those like that are pathetic power crazed prats and unprofessional. Don't give them the excuse, don't rise to their bait, just be vocal to support the City.

As an aside; No Surrender to the IRA is not racist or right wing, it's Sectarian (bigoted views along religious grounds). Still a waste of time whichever way you look at it. The links in NI between football and religion/terror groups is very pronounced, we should avoid that here and the only good thing about Brits on the mainland being so apathetic about religion is that it hasn't caught on here and I hope it doesn't.

[Flaxbourton Red]

As an aside; No Surrender to the IRA is not racist or right wing, it's Sectarian (bigoted views along religious grounds). Still a waste of time whichever way you look at it. The links in NI between football and religion/terror groups is very pronounced, we should avoid that here and the only good thing about Brits on the mainland being so apathetic about religion is that it hasn't caught on here and I hope it doesn't.

its a little bit ironic that we are debating about this song given that you know who, and the other geezer with the beard and blood all over his hands, have agreed to today.

perhaps it belongs to another era.

[Moth Eaten Pillow]

If anyone thought some of the songs contained sour words they should have been on the train up when someone mentioned 'Alan from the supporters club' by christ the air turned blue for some time.

[greenun]

Unbelieivably unashamed Politicionesque non-answer even for your standards there RR.

One might suggest it is politics as opposed to 'Politics', it certainly has a bearing on reality.

Tim, please, Papa Bear makes a valid contribution to this forum, we have to respect that. I've been suitably humbled and will lick my wounds in private.