Tristan Plummer

[MATT BCFC]

I know hes still young and we are afriad he may leave but surely hes got to be on the bench now.

I cant see how he wont be any better than the crap we are playing upfront at the moment.

I'm sure he could come on and have a positive impact for us. Hes pacy and will be looking to make an impression.

[xerox6060]

Any update on this situation from those in the know with his mother in law / granny etc etc

Ok never seen the guy play but it's very frustrating to hear about all this potential and then hear the lad could decide to slip away.

[Guest]

I was thinking this yesterday - if the guy is going to sign elsewhere, then why not play him while we at least still hold his academy registration?

If he signs for City its an added bonus.

We have nothing to loose by sticking him on the bench, and everything to gain if he pops up with a goal in the last few games.

[robins72]

Dolls said yesterday the deal is on the table he just hasnt signed yet. Keeping his options open I think. Maybe hes waiting to see if we go up?

[Collis]

Dolls said yesterday the deal is on the table he just hasnt signed yet. Keeping his options open I think. Maybe hes waiting to see if we go up?

Traitor.

Would have thought he would sign a deal with the club that have probably made him the player he is.

Sounds like the next Liam Rosinior too me.

[Guest Jamie]

Traitor.

Would have thought he would sign a deal with the club that have probably made him the player he is.

Sounds like the next Liam Rosinior too me.

It's all to do with agents, they want the best deal for them selfs not the player. Feel sorry for Plummer because I'm sure he would love to be playing first team football like any other pro in the game of football but he probly has his agent in his ear saying "Don't sign and in a year you will be playing in the Prem with Arsenal and in the CL pushing for a England Cap, which is somthing you are never going to get here!"

They are going to be the death of football players one day agents!

Unless of course i've got this completly wrong and it's Plummer that doesn't want to be here, and if so then get rid of him!

[Rudolf Hucker]

Dolls said yesterday the deal is on the table he just hasnt signed yet. Keeping his options open I think. Maybe hes waiting to see if we go up?

I was told on Thursday, by a "source very close to the family" that - much to the anger of the City management - Tristran will defintely not be signing for City. He is considering a number of options but is likely to opt for Everton.

[Red & Gold]

[Guest wackojacko14]

If we get promoted before the end of the season then we have nothing to lose, so then would be a good time to let the youngsters have a good old pop at it, Plummer, Walker, Artus, all very good prospects.

[Guest tommy doc]

[xmarktx]

I think he should be played he is 1 of the hottest prosspects this club has seen & as some1 said we hold his registration so we should give the lad an oppertunity. If he has a contract on the table he is not signing for some reason thats his choice but it is up to GJ to pick his best team & i belive he seriously should be considerd. If he plays & scores the goals that get us up then leaves us for another team he would of served his purpose & it would of been us that gave him his chance. As far as I'm concerned promotion is a must & if it means playing the lad & showcasing his talents then so be it

[xmarktx]

Johnson needs to take a good look at the lad plumer i no he"s young & nobody knows if he"s sighned or not but just put the lad on the bench play him last 10mins BUT JUST GIVE HIM A BLOODY CHANCE

[ChubStixx]

I've never watched him play but the boy sounds like such a talent. A quick google search brings up threads from liverpool and arsenal forums, discussing him.

I really hope we manage to keep hold of him, and wonder just how much of a bearing his brother/ agent will have on whether he signs a new contact or not.

[Red Robin]

Any update on this situation from those in the know with his mother in law / granny etc etc

Ok never seen the guy play but it's very frustrating to hear about all this potential and then hear the lad could decide to slip away.

He is going to Everton will not be signing new contract here.

Murrey offered two year contract at Bournemouth,who want Noble as well.

[Dave L]

Sounds like the next Liam Rosinior too me.

You mean an ambitious youngster keen to make his mark at the highest level in the game who has become an ever present in a Premiership team and an England Under 21 International - something he would never have achieved with City over the same period?

Obviously it would be great to hold on to talents like Plummer, but given a choice between staying here or joining a premiership club who can offer more money, better training facilities etc there is not one footballer in the country who would choose to stay at City, whatever his agent might say.

The only way we will hang on to our young stars is by getting to that level too, and giving them the chance to fulfill their dreams at Ashton Gate. Until then we will have to get used to situations like this and hope we can get the best possible deal when he leaves.

[Collis]

You mean an ambitious youngster keen to make his mark at the highest level in the game who has become an ever present in a Premiership team and an England Under 21 International - something he would never have achieved with City over the same period?

Obviously it would be great to hold on to talents like Plummer, but given a choice between staying here or joining a premiership club who can offer more money, better training facilities etc there is not one footballer in the country who would choose to stay at City, whatever his agent might say.

The only way we will hang on to our young stars is by getting to that level too, and giving them the chance to fulfill their dreams at Ashton Gate. Until then we will have to get used to situations like this and hope we can get the best possible deal when he leaves.

Am I too naive to ask for a bit of loyalty?

It wouldn't be a massive inconvenience for him to sign a 2 year contract, work his arse off in the first team for a year and move on slightly later for a substantial transfer fee rather then going for pennies.

If you ask me a move now is a slap in the face after we have given him top class coaching and guidance.

[Guest Barneyredballs]

Am I too naive to ask for a bit of loyalty?

It wouldn't be a massive inconvenience for him to sign a 2 year contract, work his arse off in the first team for a year and move on slightly later for a substantial transfer fee rather then going for pennies.

If you ask me a move now is a slap in the face after we have given him top class coaching and guidance.

If the lad is holding out for bigger things, then maybe if he were to get on the field, his thoughts/agents thoughts may be; 'don't get your self injured son, when the deal with the big fish is in the bag'..... just an idea why we may not see him at AG.... sucks if possibly true.

[Red & Gold]

[Guest BCFC Matthaus]

We will be compensated more fairly with Plummer, should he choose to leave as we have actually offered him a contract. I think there was a major c**k-up with the Rosenior situation as we didn't offer him a contract by a certain date and that pretty much left him free to leave - although I think we eventually got a pitance for him on appeal.

[Guest CGS RED]

Plummers record this season is similar to Klein Davis, plus a few party tricks. The tricks are not a factor when he gets out against seasoned pros in the football league. The 6ft+ 14 stone backlines will get his attention in no uncertain manner, and I for one am not getting too wound up about it.

Plummer for reserves. Played 4- scored 3.......... Klien Davis. Played 4-scored 4....JM Williams. Played 6-scored 6

Plummer for Academy. Played10-scored 6..........Klien Davis. Played 15-scored 9.

Klien Davis has a similar scoring record to Plummer, and GJ is releasing him, is it an attitude thing, as its certainly not the goals scored.

For those with short memories, Jennison Myrie Williams was the new Messiah, the wonder kid who was going to solve all our goal scoring problems. He had the hype the publicity, was being chased by premiership clubs. We have the reality check, he needed more time.

IMO the only younger player ready to walk into the first team is 19 this year, that would be Frankie Artus.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Am I too naive to ask for a bit of loyalty?

It wouldn't be a massive inconvenience for him to sign a 2 year contract, work his arse off in the first team for a year and move on slightly later for a substantial transfer fee rather then going for pennies.

If you ask me a move now is a slap in the face after we have given him top class coaching and guidance.

Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum

Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum

Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum Dee Dee Dum Dee Dum

[Dave L]

Am I too naive to ask for a bit of loyalty?

Frankly, yes.

I don't know what you do for a living, but let's say for sake of argument you're an apprentice electrician earning £250 a week. Your current employer has put you through college and enabled you to get all the professional qualifications you need to earn a decent wage.

But you're actually a really good electrician, and alerted by your excellent grades and good feedback from your customers, a much bigger electrical firm get in touch and offer you a job. They are offering you a chance to work on some really interesting, high profile rewiring jobs in some fairly swanky houses and are prepared to offer you £2000 a week.

You like your employer and feel a sense of loyalty towards him. He tells you if you stick with him, and providing his plans for expanding his business work out, he could offer you this sort of work in a few years time. If and when that happens he'll pay you really well. In the meantime he's prepared to offer you £350 a week to stay, on the off chance it may work out.

The bigger firm get wind of this and offer you £2500 a week, starting tomorrow, guaranteed for three years. They'll also help you find a new house and give you a nice car.

Hand on heart, what would you do?

[WTFiGO!?!]

Was it Matt Hill who did sign a new contract but with a get-out clause attached thus bringing in a transfer fee from Preston ? I'm sure one of our recent lads did, it might have been Lita.

[Bodiesaffer]

Was it Matt Hill who did sign a new contract but with a get-out clause attached thus bringing in a transfer fee from Preston ? I'm sure one of our recent lads did, it might have been Lita.

your write it was matt

[Guest ashtonyate]

Frankly, yes.

I don't know what you do for a living, but let's say for sake of argument you're an apprentice electrician earning £250 a week. Your current employer has put you through college and enabled you to get all the professional qualifications you need to earn a decent wage.

But you're actually a really good electrician, and alerted by your excellent grades and good feedback from your customers, a much bigger electrical firm get in touch and offer you a job. They are offering you a chance to work on some really interesting, high profile rewiring jobs in some fairly swanky houses and are prepared to offer you £2000 a week.

You like your employer and feel a sense of loyalty towards him. He tells you if you stick with him, and providing his plans for expanding his business work out, he could offer you this sort of work in a few years time. If and when that happens he'll pay you really well. In the meantime he's prepared to offer you £350 a week to stay, on the off chance it may work out.

The bigger firm get wind of this and offer you £2500 a week, starting tomorrow, guaranteed for three years. They'll also help you find a new house and give you a nice car.

Hand on heart, what would you do?

And that is why firms stopped giving apprenticeship because they were not getting anything out of it as soon as they past there city & guilds they were gone

[zookeeper]

And that is why firms stopped giving apprenticeship because they were not getting anything out of it as soon as they past there city & guilds they were gone

But you will also find that a lot of companies will pay for their employees proffesional qualifications in order to attract the best canditates. There is still the opportunity for them to leave afterwards but they still do it.

[badger22]

[Tom Fleuriot]

But you will also find that a lot of companies will pay for their employees proffesional qualifications in order to attract the best canditates. There is still the opportunity for them to leave afterwards but they still do it.

Of course, most companies that do this "lock in" the employee, so that they have to stay for eg four years after qualifying.

My 2p - I think there would be benefits for Tristan in staying or going, and I'd understand his logic in both cases. But I really hope he stays and if he does leave, I'd expect better compensation than the gas got for Sinclair, which was farcical.

I'd also like to see the PFA acting as players' agents until they turn 21, to stop heads from being turned in the case of Dwayne Plummer, Cherno Samba et al.

[Redland]

As soon as Tristan failed to sign after his birthday in January it was clear something was wrong. He is now effectively turning his back on us. How can GJ put him in the team with that attitude?

[Rob k]

If this one leaves to then its time to scrap the academy and plough the money in to the first team, Fed up of watching our best young players ending up at other teams! I cant see the point in it anymore if this happens again.

[Guest ashtonyate]

If this one leaves to then its time to scrap the academy and plough the money in to the first team, Fed up of watching our best young players ending up at other teams! I cant see the point in it anymore if this happens again.

This is what I have been saying for a long time and made myself unpopular with some people on the forum but unless the F A does something to redress the balance so the producing club gets a fair reward for bring on the player I just think we are better investing in a better scouting network and picking up players that way

[Guest ashtonyate]

[zookeeper]

If this one leaves to then its time to scrap the academy and plough the money in to the first team, Fed up of watching our best young players ending up at other teams! I cant see the point in it anymore if this happens again.

Seems like the typical gut reaction that we see so often on here. One player leaves, sack the manager, sack the board, close the academy etc.

One player leaving doesn't stop the strategic approach that is being taken by running the academy. The cost of the academy buys us one player in todays market and we have one playing a few on the fringe. It's breaking even at the moment. It could do better and you would hope that players like tristan would want to stay. If he doesn't then hopefully the return will equate to the running for one year. If he stays I hope he gets some game time when he is ready.

[zookeeper]

Of course, most companies that do this "lock in" the employee, so that they have to stay for eg four years after qualifying.

My 2p - I think there would be benefits for Tristan in staying or going, and I'd understand his logic in both cases. But I really hope he stays and if he does leave, I'd expect better compensation than the gas got for Sinclair, which was farcical.

I'd also like to see the PFA acting as players' agents until they turn 21, to stop heads from being turned in the case of Dwayne Plummer, Cherno Samba et al.

In effect the "lock" is hardly ever applied (as it seems with an academy) and is pretty much meaningless.

[Rob k]

This is what I have been saying for a long time and made myself unpopular with some people on the forum but unless the F A does something to redress the balance so the producing club gets a fair reward for bring on the player I just think we are better investing in a better scouting network and picking up players that way

I'm begining to agree with you, who played Saturday from our academy? We had Skuse and Carey (technically not academy but came from the youth set up). There seems to be nobody else who is realistically going to start - how much in wages and coaching has it cost us for all the released players that have gone in the last few weeks?

we have lost too many good players, Hill, Ayinasa (sp), Rosenior, Lita, Cotterill, Goldbourne to teams we were playing a few years back. It proves to me that if your not in the prem or championship its not worth it as you lose your best players time and time again.

[Guest James M]

Look, aside from the issues of his contract (which, let's be honest he IS being sensible about. He wants to advance his career, I don't know how we can be against that, I genuinely think if we go up he'll sign as ultimately he'd be loaned to the championship next season anyway...loyalty is a far begone ideal in this day and age), and the whole "we should have academy players in the side", we have a GENUINE goalscoring problem at the moment. Brooker has, what, 2 all season. It's hard to see where any goal is going to come from apart from our being dangerous at set pieces. We have a handful of games left this season, and barring a major slip up by S****horpe/us we'll finish 2nd.

Tristan has a proven scoring record for the youths, and is clearly our brightest talent in the system, it must be worth giving him a go. 2 games in 3 days will be tough for the other strikers anyway, there's no way everyone is at 100%, so at worst have him on the bench. It's about what's best for the team. If Smith was scoring goals I'd say play him, but he's not, and if we're going to secure promotion we need a few goals. I think Plummer with a big lad like Enoch could be a devastating partnership, and what better way to persuade him to stay then have him featuring (even as a sub) in the run in and landing promotion? Show him that his progression is going to pay dividends next season as he'll feature more.

Ultimately, even if he decides to leave, if he gets 2 or 3 goals in the final few games and that gets us promoted I'd say it's been worthwhile.

[Rob k]

Seems like the typical gut reaction that we see so often on here. One player leaves, sack the manager, sack the board, close the academy etc.

One player leaving doesn't stop the strategic approach that is being taken by running the academy. The cost of the academy buys us one player in todays market and we have one playing a few on the fringe. It's breaking even at the moment. It could do better and you would hope that players like tristan would want to stay. If he doesn't then hopefully the return will equate to the running for one year. If he stays I hope he gets some game time when he is ready.

Its not jut one player though is it? Its every single one of the better players to come through.

[Bodiesaffer]

maybe he's holding out to see what div wer in so he can get a bit more chash. i would do the same

[MATT BCFC]

Look, aside from the issues of his contract (which, let's be honest he IS being sensible about. He wants to advance his career, I don't know how we can be against that, I genuinely think if we go up he'll sign as ultimately he'd be loaned to the championship next season anyway...loyalty is a far begone ideal in this day and age), and the whole "we should have academy players in the side", we have a GENUINE goalscoring problem at the moment. Brooker has, what, 2 all season. It's hard to see where any goal is going to come from apart from our being dangerous at set pieces. We have a handful of games left this season, and barring a major slip up by S****horpe/us we'll finish 2nd.

Tristan has a proven scoring record for the youths, and is clearly our brightest talent in the system, it must be worth giving him a go. 2 games in 3 days will be tough for the other strikers anyway, there's no way everyone is at 100%, so at worst have him on the bench. It's about what's best for the team. If Smith was scoring goals I'd say play him, but he's not, and if we're going to secure promotion we need a few goals. I think Plummer with a big lad like Enoch could be a devastating partnership, and what better way to persuade him to stay then have him featuring (even as a sub) in the run in and landing promotion? Show him that his progression is going to pay dividends next season as he'll feature more.

Ultimately, even if he decides to leave, if he gets 2 or 3 goals in the final few games and that gets us promoted I'd say it's been worthwhile.

exatly my point!

[Rudolf Hucker]

we have lost too many good players, Hill, Ayinasa (sp), Rosenior, Lita, Cotterill, Goldbourne to teams we were playing a few years back. It proves to me that if your not in the prem or championship its not worth it as you lose your best players time and time again.

Except in the case of Rosenior, we have received fees for each of these players. In the case of Lita and Cotterill, the fees have been healthy ones, with the prospect of further follow-on payments in due course, which have more than paid for the cost of establishing the Academy.

Whilst we are in Division One this exodus will continue. Only when we get to the Championship will we be in a position to call the shots with these emerging Academy talents and truly benefit from them on the playing side. Another reason why promotion is vital this season.

[Guest BCFC Matthaus]

As soon as Tristan failed to sign after his birthday in January it was clear something was wrong. He is now effectively turning his back on us. How can GJ put him in the team with that attitude?

I would hope that Tristan would learn from his brothers mistakes. Dwayne had all the talent in the world but his career path (or lack of it) was reportedly down his attitude problem, he definitely didn't make the most of his abilities. Tristan could be in danger of replicating this. We currently have a manager who is intollerant of anyone with an attitude regardless of their ability. GJ - "If they are not the sort of person I could invite round my house for dinner, then I don't want them playing at my football club".

In the bigger picture, the sooner we get ourselves out of this division - the fewer of our academy players will be leaving. Playing in the 3rd tier has been hindering us for years on all fronts of our club.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I would hope that Tristan would learn from his brothers mistakes. Dwayne had all the talent in the world but his career path (or lack of it) was reportedly down his attitude problem, he definitely didn't make the most of his abilities. Tristan could be in danger of replicating this. We currently have a manager who is intolerance of anyone with an attitude regardless of their ability. GJ - "If they are not the sort of person I could invite round my house for dinner, then I don't want them playing at my football club".

In the bigger picture, the sooner we get ourselves out of this division - the fewer of our academy players will be leaving. Playing in the 3rd tier has been hindering us for years on all fronts of our club.

But none of the players said to City I don't want to play in your Academy because your a Third Division club did they. They look at it as way of playing football the easy way what I mean by that is not playing part time and having a job. I don't blame the players its down to the FA to sort it out or better still for the F A to run Academies around the country

[Nibor]

But none of the players said to City I don't want to play in your Academy because your a Third Division club did they.

That's because the academy is Premier League and they get to play against teams like Arsenal. When our young players do well against the best young players in the country they're going to attract attention. It's the club's job to make it clear to them that their best chance of a successful career lies with us.

They look at it as way of playing football the easy way what I mean by that is not playing part time and having a job. I don't blame the players its down to the FA to sort it out or better still for the F A to run Academies around the country

The FA need to sort quite a few things out to do with the academy system, the first and foremost amongst them being to safeguard clubs from cherry picking. The Chelseas of this world should simply not be allowed to wave bags of cash at young players to tempt them from clubs that have developed them. I'd like to see the following things changed:

- A sensible limit on the number of players a club can have signed in each age group (ie no more than a suitable squad size) to stop big clubs from simply stockpiling players and then casting the majority of them off and only keeping the exceptional ones

- Academy contracts standardized such that they are signed at 16 and commit the players to those clubs until 21

- The one hour driving distance rule changed so that a club can only sign a player to the academy if they've lived within one hour driving distance for at least 2 years

I don't want the FA to have anything to do with actually coaching the players and running the individual academies, they make enough of a cluster**** of governance of the game.

[Guest ashtonyate]

That's because the academy is Premier League and they get to play against teams like Arsenal. When our young players do well against the best young players in the country they're going to attract attention. It's the club's job to make it clear to them that their best chance of a successful career lies with us.

The FA need to sort quite a few things out to do with the academy system, the first and foremost amongst them being to safeguard clubs from cherry picking. The Chelseas of this world should simply not be allowed to wave bags of cash at young players to tempt them from clubs that have developed them. I'd like to see the following things changed:

- A sensible limit on the number of players a club can have signed in each age group (ie no more than a suitable squad size) to stop big clubs from simply stockpiling players and then casting the majority of them off and only keeping the exceptional ones

- Academy contracts standardized such that they are signed at 16 and commit the players to those clubs until 21

- The one hour driving distance rule changed so that a club can only sign a player to the academy if they've lived within one hour driving distance for at least 2 years

I don't want the FA to have anything to do with actually coaching the players and running the individual academies, they make enough of a cluster**** of governance of the game.

But how does a third division Club do that you can point out that they will get a better chance of first team football or what you like. They agent is telling them that this club or that club want them and will pay them a fortune to sign them no contest really is it.

The second thing is we all know that the academy system is a farce and favours the Prem sides so what do you do in the short term to keep your players even the most ardent Academy fan must be fed up seeing the best players leaving without given anything back. You can point to Lita and Cottrell as we did get some good money for Cottrell not so sure that we had such a good deal with Lita though

Why I say about the F A getting involved is the agents would not want to be seeing as a disrupted influence in putting pressure on players to move Clubs like they are now.

[zookeeper]

Its not jut one player though is it? Its every single one of the better players to come through.

£400k probably equates to a £200k rated player earning £200k a year. That's one player in my eyes.

[Nibor]

But how does a third division Club do that you can point out that they will get a better chance of first team football or what you like. They agent is telling them that this club or that club want them and will pay them a fortune to sign them no contest really is it.

The same way we convinced Cotterill and Lita to sign for us in the first place.

The second thing is we all know that the academy system is a farce and favours the Prem sides

The academy system isn't a farce at all and on the whole is very successful in producing quality young players, but there are some problems with it. It doesn't favour Prem sides any more than the rest of football does - players will always want to go to the top.

The thing is that the academy system needs additional protections because clubs have to make an investment in these players without which the country as a whole wouldn't be producing them, that investment should be protected contractually the same way a transfer fee is.

so what do you do in the short term to keep your players even the most ardent Academy fan must be fed up seeing the best players leaving without given anything back. You can point to Lita and Cottrell as we did get some good money for Cottrell not so sure that we had such a good deal with Lita though

We got a good deal with both and the point is we'd convinced both to sign professional terms. The problem is nothing to do with players who have signed professional terms because then it's the club's decision as to whether to sell just as with any other player. The problem is the gap between the age at which the club has to invest in players to train them and the age at which we can contractually bind them to the club.

Why I say about the F A getting involved is the agents would not want to be seeing as a disrupted influence in putting pressure on players to move Clubs like they are now.

Getting the FA involved in running academies would do absolutely nothing to prevent agents from co-ercing players to sign for clubs for money. Having the FA improve the regulations governing such moves and enforcing them however, would.

[old_man_terry]

But how does a third division Club do that you can point out that they will get a better chance of first team football or what you like. They agent is telling them that this club or that club want them and will pay them a fortune to sign them no contest really is it.

The second thing is we all know that the academy system is a farce and favours the Prem sides so what do you do in the short term to keep your players even the most ardent Academy fan must be fed up seeing the best players leaving without given anything back. You can point to Lita and Cottrell as we did get some good money for Cottrell not so sure that we had such a good deal with Lita though

Why I say about the F A getting involved is the agents would not want to be seeing as a disrupted influence in putting pressure on players to move Clubs like they are now.

here you go again, Lita and Cotterill were both very good deals for the club at the time, what they have or haven't done since is regardless, Golbourne transfer also did us very well too.

All of Football favours the Premiership not just the Academy system, since the bosman ruling though smaller clubs have been better compensatated however, an good example of this was the Scott Sinclair transfer where the kid was still only on schoolboy terms and yet the still got a good deal, in the past if a player left the club while he was still on schoolboy terms the club was due nothing.

Similar thing happened to City a number of years ago when a now well know Liverpool player left City after playing for us as a schoolboy we got nothing for him at the time when he joined Norwich

[Guest ashtonyate]

here you go again, Lita and Cotterill were both very good deals for the club at the time, what they have or haven't done since is regardless, Golbourne transfer also did us very well too.

All of Football favours the Premiership not just the Academy system, since the bosman ruling though smaller clubs have been better compensatated however, an good example of this was the Scott Sinclair transfer where the kid was still only on schoolboy terms and yet the still got a good deal, in the past if a player left the club while he was still on schoolboy terms the club was due nothing.

Similar thing happened to City a number of years ago when a now well know Liverpool player left City after playing for us as a schoolboy we got nothing for him at the time when he joined Norwich

[Guest ashtonyate]

If you think the Rovers got a good deal for Sinclar then I just give up If you can get players for the money Chelsea paid for him its not worth having a academy you just as well pinch other teams players.

[zookeeper]

If you think the Rovers got a good deal for Sinclar then I just give up If you can get players for the money Chelsea paid for him its not worth having a academy you just as well pinch other teams players.

Rovers don't have an academy, just a very good scouting team (who incidently we have just poached) so it's not really a good comparison for you.

[Guest ashtonyate]

The same way we convinced Cotterill and Lita to sign for us in the first place.

The academy system isn't a farce at all and on the whole is very successful in producing quality young players, but there are some problems with it. It doesn't favour Prem sides any more than the rest of football does - players will always want to go to the top.

The thing is that the academy system needs additional protections because clubs have to make an investment in these players without which the country as a whole wouldn't be producing them, that investment should be protected contractually the same way a transfer fee is.

We got a good deal with both and the point is we'd convinced both to sign professional terms. The problem is nothing to do with players who have signed professional terms because then it's the club's decision as to whether to sell just as with any other player. The problem is the gap between the age at which the club has to invest in players to train them and the age at which we can contractually bind them to the club.

Getting the FA involved in running academies would do absolutely nothing to prevent agents from co-ercing players to sign for clubs for money. Having the FA improve the regulations governing such moves and enforcing them however, would.

It does favour Prem Clubs because they have to only pay the producing club what its cost so far its makes no reward for what the player likely worth will be when he is a little older

They take a chance on player like Lita he was a good bet for them soon the Million they paid for him was a drop in the ocean had Lita not been sold they would have got him for less in the Summer when his contract was up he would gone to a tribunal and we would have got less than a million Cottrell was a good deal for the club but thats about the only one

[redsontour]

It does favour Prem Clubs because they have to only pay the producing club what its cost so far its makes no reward for what the player likely worth will be when he is a little older

They take a chance on player like Lita he was a good bet for them soon the Million they paid for him was a drop in the ocean had Lita not been sold they would have got him for less in the Summer when his contract was up he would gone to a tribunal and we would have got less than a million Cottrell was a good deal for the club but thats about the only one

You really never do your research on this academy subject do you? OK, small challenge, give me the details of a deal involving an ACADEMY produced player where another Premiership club has poached them for a negligable sum...and I don't mean a centre of excellence, I mean an FA funded acadamy..Oh, and ignore Rosenoir, who was the beneficiary of a missed post date..Thanks

[Nibor]

It does favour Prem Clubs because they have to only pay the producing club what its cost so far its makes no reward for what the player likely worth will be when he is a little older

Rubbish.

First off the producing club nearly always gets a profit on future sales, just like the sags have with Sinclair.

Second, this is the exact same situation we're in with ANY player who is not on a contract. The academy system no more favours Prem clubs than the transfer system you seem to love does.

They take a chance on player like Lita he was a good bet for them soon the Million they paid for him was a drop in the ocean had Lita not been sold they would have got him for less in the Summer when his contract was up he would gone to a tribunal and we would have got less than a million Cottrell was a good deal for the club but thats about the only one

We got a player for free, trained him up in the academy, got £1m for him + add-ons since then, + 30% of whatever Reading sell him for. That was a great deal for us. We'd never have seen Lita if we didn't have an academy.

Which young players from the academy have we lost out on exactly?

[exiledinwatford]

That's because the academy is Premier League and they get to play against teams like Arsenal. When our young players do well against the best young players in the country they're going to attract attention. It's the club's job to make it clear to them that their best chance of a successful career lies with us.

The FA need to sort quite a few things out to do with the academy system, the first and foremost amongst them being to safeguard clubs from cherry picking. The Chelseas of this world should simply not be allowed to wave bags of cash at young players to tempt them from clubs that have developed them. I'd like to see the following things changed:

- A sensible limit on the number of players a club can have signed in each age group (ie no more than a suitable squad size) to stop big clubs from simply stockpiling players and then casting the majority of them off and only keeping the exceptional ones

- Academy contracts standardized such that they are signed at 16 and commit the players to those clubs until 21

- The one hour driving distance rule changed so that a club can only sign a player to the academy if they've lived within one hour driving distance for at least 2 years

I don't want the FA to have anything to do with actually coaching the players and running the individual academies, they make enough of a cluster**** of governance of the game.

Exactly Nibor - if Tristan was here until 21 he'd repay the effort the club had made in developing him. He could then move on with 3 years first team experience and we would get a return in cash as well as the benefit of having him play for us. It would also add a bit of security for the player.

[Rob k]

Exactly Nibor - if Tristan was here until 21 he'd repay the effort the club had made in developing him. He could then move on with 3 years first team experience and we would get a return in cash as well as the benefit of having him play for us. It would also add a bit of security for the player.

Whats the point in putting in years of coaching and training to have a player until he is 21, Here is a team City would have now were we able to keep players mixed with a few signings,

Phillips

Rosenior, Carey, Mcombe, Hill

Cotterill, Doherty, Johnson, Goldbourne

Lita, Brooker

Imagine that starting 11

[exiledinwatford]

Whats the point in putting in years of coaching and training to have a player until he is 21, Here is a team City would have now were we able to keep players mixed with a few signings,

Phillips

Rosenior, Carey, Mcombe, Hill

Cotterill, Doherty, Johnson, Goldbourne

Lita, Brooker

Imagine that starting 11

The point I was making would stop clubs poaching players when they were 17/18 after us putting 5 or 6 years work into them at youth level and seeing them leave for nothing. At least if the lads were under contract we would be adequately compensated.

[downendcity]

Whats the point in putting in years of coaching and training to have a player until he is 21, Here is a team City would have now were we able to keep players mixed with a few signings,

Phillips

Rosenior, Carey, Mcombe, Hill

Cotterill, Doherty, Johnson, Goldbourne

Lita, Brooker

Imagine that starting 11

I can imagine it would score more than 1 goal in 3 games!

[Guest ashtonyate]

Rubbish.

First off the producing club nearly always gets a profit on future sales, just like the sags have with Sinclair.

Second, this is the exact same situation we're in with ANY player who is not on a contract. The academy system no more favours Prem clubs than the transfer system you seem to love does.

We got a player for free, trained him up in the academy, got £1m for him + add-ons since then, + 30% of whatever Reading sell him for. That was a great deal for us. We'd never have seen Lita if we didn't have an academy.

Which young players from the academy have we lost out on exactly?

Golbourne Ayasha? preston now it looks like Plummer, when are we going to get an academy player to sign for us thats what i would like to know.

I don't think a 100k is enough for a player that has played in the England youth team like Golbourne and all this sell on rubbish you only get a cut if they sell a player.

If Lita see out his contract with Reading and resigns for them how much do we get then zero like the old saying a bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush

And I still say if we never had an Academy we would have been promoted a long time ago

[old_man_terry]

Golbourne Ayasha? preston now it looks like Plummer, when are we going to get an academy player to sign for us thats what i would like to know.

I don't think a 100k is enough for a player that has played in the England youth team like Golbourne and all this sell on rubbish you only get a cut if they sell a player.

If Lita see out his contract with Reading and resigns for them how much do we get then zero like the old saying a bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush

And I still say if we never had an Academy we would have been promoted a long time ago

Golbourne went for 400k with another 100k if they got promoted, neither him or Joe Annyaish at Preston did too much at City before being sold and haven't done anything since, apart from play a few games in the basement.

600k for 2 players who have done nothing since, good business if ever I heard it.

when lita's contract expires he will still be young enough for Reading to claim a fee for him.

either way, £1m for him was an excellent piece of business for the club.

[robins72]

Plummber had a good first half tonight in the reserves. Got marked out a bit in the second half but looks a lively player. Reminds me alot of Liam Rosenior.

[Nibor]

Golbourne Ayasha? preston now it looks like Plummer, when are we going to get an academy player to sign for us thats what i would like to know.

I don't think a 100k is enough for a player that has played in the England youth team like Golbourne and all this sell on rubbish you only get a cut if they sell a player.

Well over 500k for the pair in the bank already and up to £1mil possibly if more of the clauses get realised. Plus the usual sell ons. So please, who exactly have we lost out on?

If Lita see out his contract with Reading and resigns for them how much do we get then zero

No, 30%.

And I still say if we never had an Academy we would have been promoted a long time ago

Yeah, well you've never been able to argue that point coherently - that horse is well and truly dead.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Well over 500k for the pair in the bank already and up to £1mil possibly if more of the clauses get realised. Plus the usual sell ons. So please, who exactly have we lost out on?

No, 30%.

Yeah, well you've never been able to argue that point coherently - that horse is well and truly dead.

I don't know where you got your figures from because it was supposed to be undisclosed but the point was if City had wanted to keep them the players made it clear they wanted to go so it force City into letting them go after all the reason for an Academy is to bring players on for your own Club

If Lita sees out his contract with Reading them they resigns him as they have not sold him so how are we due any money

Since we have had an Academy we don't seem to scout for players very much and there are a lot of player who have develop late and are being pick up by other clubs. Which is another way the Academy does not do us any favours

[Rob k]

Well over 500k for the pair in the bank already and up to £1mil possibly if more of the clauses get realised. Plus the usual sell ons. So please, who exactly have we lost out on?

No, 30%.

Yeah, well you've never been able to argue that point coherently - that horse is well and truly dead.

How can you prove we have got 500k for the pair?

[RedM]

Plummber had a good first half tonight in the reserves. Got marked out a bit in the second half but looks a lively player. Reminds me alot of Liam Rosenior.

I guess your comment refers to purely footballing terms and hope that's where the similarity ends!

[Nibor]

I don't know where you got your figures from because it was supposed to be undisclosed but the point was if City had wanted to keep them the players made it clear they wanted to go so it force City into letting them go after all the reason for an Academy is to bring players on for your own Club

My figures came from SL. £250k up front for Golbourne and the same again on Reading's promotion. We got about £100k for Anyinsah too. Golbourne didn't ask to leave, Anyinsah was out of contract. If we wanted to keep either of them we could have, the only reason Anyinsah turned down a new contract was because he wasn't offered on until very late on - we could have done that 6 months earlier.

If Lita sees out his contract with Reading them they resigns him as they have not sold him so how are we due any money

Whenever Lita is sold, regardless of whether he signs a new deal first or not, we're due 30%.

Since we have had an Academy we don't seem to scout for players very much and there are a lot of player who have develop late and are being pick up by other clubs. Which is another way the Academy does not do us any favours

You haven't got a clue how much scouting we do. In fact, we do more scouting as a result of having an academy because we employ scouts through that. I believe we have five scouts in the local area plus we have Pete Johnson and his contacts around the south east. We have a better scouting network than we have at any time in the last 20 years back to before Clive Whitehead was doing it. Please stop making stuff up.

How can you prove we have got 500k for the pair?

Lansdown said so publicly in one of the Q&A sessions.

[Guest ashtonyate]

My figures came from SL. £250k up front for Golbourne and the same again on Reading's promotion. We got about £100k for Anyinsah too. Golbourne didn't ask to leave, Anyinsah was out of contract. If we wanted to keep either of them we could have, the only reason Anyinsah turned down a new contract was because he wasn't offered on until very late on - we could have done that 6 months earlier.

Whenever Lita is sold, regardless of whether he signs a new deal first or not, we're due 30%.

You haven't got a clue how much scouting we do. In fact, we do more scouting as a result of having an academy because we employ scouts through that. I believe we have five scouts in the local area plus we have Pete Johnson and his contacts around the south east. We have a better scouting network than we have at any time in the last 20 years back to before Clive Whitehead was doing it. Please stop making stuff up.

Lansdown said so publicly in one of the Q&A sessions.

Golbourne did want to go to Reading we would not or could not make him go Reading. Anyinsah said he wanted to have a change as he had been at City for a long time if you can get young player like that for so little money why have an Academy because we cant seem to sign the player that we want to stay anyway

As for scouting most of the scouting is looking at schoolboy talent for the Academy not at conference type football even GJ employed his brother because he realized that we never had a good enough network at one time we were getting players from Scotland the trouble with the academy you become blinkered with local talent. Other teams have got out of this divion without an Academy and what impacted has the Academy with this season very little.

And another thing I do believe that we spend a lot more money than we are told we spend on the Academy because of the backlash of the supporters you can do a lot of smoke & glass things with accounts

[Nibor]

Golbourne did want to go to Reading we would not or could not make him go Reading.

No he didn't, he was perfectly happy at City and would not have been bothered if the offer had been refused. Once the offer was accepted he made a decision, it's not the same as wanting to leave at all and he was under a long contract here.

Anyinsah said he wanted to have a change as he had been at City for a long time if you can get young player like that for so little money why have an Academy because we cant seem to sign the player that we want to stay anyway

As I said, Anyinsah would have stayed if he'd been offered a deal earlier. The club didn't talk to him about a new contract at all and Preston got to him first.

As for the rest, the reason we have an academy is to produce talented young players for the first team and this is a job it's done exceptionally well in recent years with good value for money - far better value for money than most signings we've made. If the club choose to sell players that is nothing whatsoever to do with the academy and no reflection on it.

As for scouting most of the scouting is looking at schoolboy talent for the Academy not at conference type football even GJ employed his brother because he realized that we never had a good enough network at one time we were getting players from Scotland the trouble with the academy you become blinkered with local talent.

Yes, our scouting network was terrible. It was terrible 20 years ago before we had an academy and since we've had an academy it's actually got better. Since GJ added his brother to it it's improved further. It still could be much improved and hopefully it will continue to do so.

What basis do you have for saying that the academy makes our scouting blinkered? How can you possibly come to that conclusion?

Other teams have got out of this divion without an Academy and what impacted has the Academy with this season very little.

Apart from over £2m in the bank, and Skuse and Myrie-Williams in the first XI. We'll see Wilson and Artus make the step up next season too.

And another thing I do believe that we spend a lot more money than we are told we spend on the Academy because of the backlash of the supporters you can do a lot of smoke & glass things with accounts

Well of course you do, because you've got an axe to grind against the academy for some reason. It's your choice not to believe the facts given by the chairman.

You can't even be bothered to look at the accounts yourself to see if there's any smoke and mirrors so why should anyone take your belief that we're being lied to seriously?

I have looked at the accounts and if we're spending the sort of money you keep imagining we are then it's very well hidden. Why on earth SL would try and disguise such information I've no idea, there's nothing in it for them - do you have a theory on this?

[Guest ashtonyate]

No he didn't, he was perfectly happy at City and would not have been bothered if the offer had been refused. Once the offer was accepted he made a decision, it's not the same as wanting to leave at all and he was under a long contract here.

As I said, Anyinsah would have stayed if he'd been offered a deal earlier. The club didn't talk to him about a new contract at all and Preston got to him first.

As for the rest, the reason we have an academy is to produce talented young players for the first team and this is a job it's done exceptionally well in recent years with good value for money - far better value for money than most signings we've made. If the club choose to sell players that is nothing whatsoever to do with the academy and no reflection on it.

Yes, our scouting network was terrible. It was terrible 20 years ago before we had an academy and since we've had an academy it's actually got better. Since GJ added his brother to it it's improved further. It still could be much improved and hopefully it will continue to do so.

What basis do you have for saying that the academy makes our scouting blinkered? How can you possibly come to that conclusion?

Apart from over £2m in the bank, and Skuse and Myrie-Williams in the first XI. We'll see Wilson and Artus make the step up next season too.

Well of course you do, because you've got an axe to grind against the academy for some reason. It's your choice not to believe the facts given by the chairman.

You can't even be bothered to look at the accounts yourself to see if there's any smoke and mirrors so why should anyone take your belief that we're being lied to seriously?

I have looked at the accounts and if we're spending the sort of money you keep imagining we are then it's very well hidden. Why on earth SL would try and disguise such information I've no idea, there's nothing in it for them - do you have a theory on this?

If he was happy to stay then he would have stayed I think he was tapped up As for anyinsah he was not out of contract so there was no emergency about the contract he knew he would be offered one you make out that its the Clubs fault but these player get tapped up through there agent and unsettled them now you must know it goes on all the time.

As for the scouting most of the time they are looking at schoolboys for the Academy or why don't we end up with some good player from the lower leagues there are lots of good players who could step up from the lower leagues we are not getting them we end up with pike hands like Savage & Smith.

Why i don't like the Academy is has never done the Club any good we are no better of with it, in fact I think it held back the club you can point to the say so money in the bank but had we not had an Academy we would not have spent it anyway

we have one player in the team this season from the academy you can't count Williams because we have no forward to speak of if we had he would not even get on the bench

Why I say about the accounts is if you look at the players we have and look at the overdraft they don't add up we owe Million although its hidden in long term loans the player we sign are not bank busters there are clubs with a lot less money than City coming in.

They are in a better position than us take Colchester near the top of the Championship. In the last 11 or so years i have seen teams come down to our division regroup and go up again.

We can't field a target man The Academy in my eyes is one of the reasons this Club has stood still the other is the Chairman is not hard enough in the running of the club he is side tract to easily

[Nibor]

If he was happy to stay then he would have stayed I think he was tapped up As for anyinsah he was not out of contract so there was no emergency about the contract he knew he would be offered one you make out that its the Clubs fault but these player get tapped up through there agent and unsettled them now you must know it goes on all the time.

Well, you're wrong. Anyinsah WAS out of contract and Golbourne WAS quite happy to stay. Both are a matter of public record.

As for the scouting most of the time they are looking at schoolboys for the Academy or why don't we end up with some good player from the lower leagues there are lots of good players who could step up from the lower leagues we are not getting them we end up with pike hands like Savage & Smith.

Why didn't we end up with good players from the lower leagues before we had an academy then? You're talking rubbish.

Why i don't like the Academy is has never done the Club any good we are no better of with it, in fact I think it held back the club you can point to the say so money in the bank but had we not had an Academy we would not have spent it anyway

we have one player in the team this season from the academy you can't count Williams because we have no forward to speak of if we had he would not even get on the bench

I can count JMW because he IS playing for the first team. The academy has done the club plenty of good, it's provided players for the first team and a healthy profit for the bank balance. It's the lazy useless "pros" we've signed over the last 8 seasons that haven't.

Why I say about the accounts is if you look at the players we have and look at the overdraft they don't add up we owe Million although its hidden in long term loans the player we sign are not bank busters there are clubs with a lot less money than City coming in.

You haven't looked at the accounts - how can you possibly say they don't add up when you haven't?

What possible reason would the chairman have for lying about how much the academy costs?

They are in a better position than us take Colchester near the top of the Championship. In the last 11 or so years i have seen teams come down to our division regroup and go up again.

We can't field a target man The Academy in my eyes is one of the reasons this Club has stood still the other is the Chairman is not hard enough in the running of the club he is side tract to easily

Blah blah blah.

All you're doing is stating your opinions, you're not backing any of them up with facts or even reasons, you're simply making things up. I know how you feel about the academy, you don't need to keep repeating it, what I'm trying to do is find out why - and I've come to the conclusion that you don't even know yourself.

You simply cannot explain logically why an academy that produces good young players and makes a profit is stopping us from getting promoted because there is no logical explanation.

[zookeeper]

Why I say about the accounts is if you look at the players we have and look at the overdraft they don't add up we owe Million although its hidden in long term loans the player we sign are not bank busters there are clubs with a lot less money than City coming in.

I take it by this you mean that we haven't overspend on players so shouldn't be in debt.

Well sunny, huge sums of money were spent on a whole host of underachievers that left for free adds a vast sum onto our debts and it is also very well documented fact that players signed from other clubs get paid substantially more than home grown players. Players such as Jones and Peacock must have easily cost £2m for the duration of their contracts.

The club has invested in players during the time of the academy, albeit not the right players. Is that the academys fault?