Tristan Plummer

[robins72]

I guess your comment refers to purely footballing terms and hope that's where the similarity ends!

Yes although people seem to think because he hasnt signed he will do a Rosenior and leave. Shame cos I really hope he does sign he looks a lively player and a good prospect for city.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Well, you're wrong. Anyinsah WAS out of contract and Golbourne WAS quite happy to stay. Both are a matter of public record.

Why didn't we end up with good players from the lower leagues before we had an academy then? You're talking rubbish.

I can count JMW because he IS playing for the first team. The academy has done the club plenty of good, it's provided players for the first team and a healthy profit for the bank balance. It's the lazy useless "pros" we've signed over the last 8 seasons that haven't.

You haven't looked at the accounts - how can you possibly say they don't add up when you haven't?

What possible reason would the chairman have for lying about how much the academy costs?

Blah blah blah.

All you're doing is stating your opinions, you're not backing any of them up with facts or even reasons, you're simply making things up. I know how you feel about the academy, you don't need to keep repeating it, what I'm trying to do is find out why - and I've come to the conclusion that you don't even know yourself.

You simply cannot explain logically why an academy that produces good young players and makes a profit is stopping us from getting promoted because there is no logical explanation.

Well then that's my view since we have had an Academy the club has had the worst lean spell in the clubs history apart from one way back.

I put it down to money going to the academy instead of first team players the academy has had very little impact on the first team because the first lot of academy players were never good enough Docherty burrnal and a few more but had to play to justify the money being spent on the academy this lot don't want to sign for us anyway

As for peacock the money 650k that was 5/6 year ago you can keep bring up money paid in the past without taking into account the million it took to start the academy in the first place. the academy has never made a profit

blah blah to you

[Nibor]

As for peacock the money 650k that was 5/6 year ago you can keep bring up money paid in the past without taking into account the million it took to start the academy in the first place. the academy has never made a profit

Haven't mentioned Peacock but he's a great example. Signing him and paying his wages probably cost us enough to run the academy for 4 years.

Never made a profit? Come off it.

We've made nearly £5m from transfer fees from players that came through the academy. Even if your make believe figures are right and it cost a million to setup initially it's still in the black, and the figures SL gave you for both early running costs and those now are significantly lower than that and you know it.

Basically, you're closed minded about the academy. You decided you don't like it, you have no reasonable basis for that and you just keep harping on about it without actually arguing the points made that refute your view.

[Nibor]

Is that the academys fault?

I'm sure if it rains this evening the academy is somehow to blame.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I'm sure if it rains this evening the academy is somehow to blame.

5 million explain that I don't blame the academy for everything I blame the Chairman for not doing his job well he should have shut it down or a least made it run as a C of C which would have made money more available when we came down last time.

Also tell me why you think it is we are still in this league after all this years.You got Yeovil who were light years away from the football league the last time we came down on gates of 5,000 and got a good chance of going up after we took their Manager as well. Plymouth 4 then 3 then Championship Colchester top half Championship the only thing I see different is we have an academy and these teams don't

[Nibor]

5 million explain that

Lita

Cotterill

Golbourne

Doherty

Coles

Anyinsah

Rosenior

Hill

= well over £4m.

Also tell me why you think it is we are still in this league after all this years.

Years of signing players who bottle it and don't earn the vast sums of money we pay for them.

You got Yeovil who were light years away from the football league the last time we came down on gates of 5,000 and got a good chance of going up after we took their Manager as well. Plymouth 4 then 3 then Championship Colchester top half Championship the only thing I see different is we have an academy and these teams don't

Yeah, great argument. How's this one:

Of the clubs above us in the football league, the majority have an academy.

Of the clubs below us in the football league, the majority don't.

How does that stack up with your irrational academy hatred?

[Guest ashtonyate]

Lita

Cotterill

Golbourne

Doherty

Coles

Anyinsah

Rosenior

Hill

= well over £4m.

Years of signing players who bottle it and don't earn the vast sums of money we pay for them.

Yeah, great argument. How's this one:

Of the clubs above us in the football league, the majority have an academy.

Of the clubs below us in the football league, the majority don't.

How does that stack up with your irrational academy hatred?

A lot of the players who bottled it were academy player who were peed up most of the time Docherty and friends if you add up all the compound interest the academy has been saddled with that's a dam sight more than the 4 plus millions you quote

We are not in the higher divion yet we are still trying to go up we can still get cauglt by a few none Academy teams yet

[Nibor]

A lot of the players who bottled it were academy player who were peed up most of the time Docherty and friends

Doherty and Coles. Two players. Both of whom were actually amongst the better performers in the squad.

Want to count how many "pros" we've had over the years that were doing the same and worse?

if you add up all the compound interest the academy has been saddled with that's a dam sight more than the 4 plus millions you quote

No it isn't, unless you live in cloud cuckoo land and believe the chairman is lying about the costs. You still haven't explained why he'd do that by the way!

The academy cost around £600k a season at it's most expensive.

It now costs between £100k and £200k a season.

These figures are facts that the chairman has given you directly, you don't like them so you choose to ignore them.

Besides if you include compound interest on the cost then you'd have to do the same on the transfer revenue....

We are not in the higher divion yet we are still trying to go up we can still get cauglt by a few none Academy teams yet

So what? We can still get caught by Forest who have an academy too. You made the argument that all these teams that don't have an academy go past us so obviously the academy is holding us back, I pointed out that they're the exception not the rule because the majority of teams who don't have one are BELOW us.

You seriously don't seem to understand the basics.

The academy's job is to produce good young players. That's it. Nothing else.

How the first team does has nothing to do with the academy.

The academy's success can only be measured by how good the players are it produces, and the facts are that it's produced some very good ones.

If the CLUB chooses to sell those players, that is nothing to do with the academy.

Your view that the academy is why we haven't gone up is unsupportable rubbish, but I despair of getting you to actually think about the (lack of) logic behind it.

[jellyred]

Similar thing happened to City a number of years ago when a now well know Liverpool player left City after playing for us as a schoolboy we got nothing for him at the time when he joined Norwich

Time for me to look even more stoopid, who the chuff was that I can't fathom it out at all.

[samo]

Time for me to look even more stoopid, who the chuff was that I can't fathom it out at all.

Craig Bellamy (sp)

[bh_red]

jesus christ! been away from here for a couple of weeks and Ashtonyate is still moaning about the academy and coming out with the same views which still don't have any substance to them.

surely we should have a "Ashtonyate's academy moans lets go around in Circles forum" setup?

simple thing is Academy works, but football as a whole is the problem

[Guest ashtonyate]

Doherty and Coles. Two players. Both of whom were actually amongst the better performers in the squad.

Want to count how many "pros" we've had over the years that were doing the same and worse?

No it isn't, unless you live in cloud cuckoo land and believe the chairman is lying about the costs. You still haven't explained why he'd do that by the way!

The academy cost around £600k a season at it's most expensive.

It now costs between £100k and £200k a season.

These figures are facts that the chairman has given you directly, you don't like them so you choose to ignore them.

Besides if you include compound interest on the cost then you'd have to do the same on the transfer revenue....

So what? We can still get caught by Forest who have an academy too. You made the argument that all these teams that don't have an academy go past us so obviously the academy is holding us back, I pointed out that they're the exception not the rule because the majority of teams who don't have one are BELOW us.

You seriously don't seem to understand the basics.

The academy's job is to produce good young players. That's it. Nothing else.

How the first team does has nothing to do with the academy.

The academy's success can only be measured by how good the players are it produces, and the facts are that it's produced some very good ones.

If the CLUB chooses to sell those players, that is nothing to do with the academy.

Your view that the academy is why we haven't gone up is unsupportable rubbish, but I despair of getting you to actually think about the (lack of) logic behind it.

No it cost very nearly a Million pounds a year for the first 2/3 years after being set up it was costing 675k a year until we when to the new academy system now it is said it is costing 200k which is a figure i find hard to believe

you say the academy is doing its job bring players on well if they do not play for us as far as I am concerned its not worth having you say Forest has an academy that's hardly a recommendation for one as they came down last year

you say that what i say about the academy being the reason for us still being in this division is rubbish then you tell me why a club with better supporter attendances has been in this division 10 out of the last 11 years well other teams have gone up

in the champion no crap tell me why

[Guest scumbag]

No it cost very nearly a Million pounds a year for the first 2/3 years after being set up it was costing 675k a year until we when to the new academy system now it is said it is costing 200k which is a figure i find hard to believe

you say the academy is doing its job bring players on well if they do not play for us as far as I am concerned its not worth having you say Forest has an academy that's hardly a recommendation for one as they came down last year

you say that what i say about the academy being the reason for us still being in this division is rubbish then you tell me why a club with better supporter attendances has been in this division 10 out of the last 11 years well other teams have gone up

in the champion no crap tell me why

so basically despite various figures and amounts being mentioned by various people from the club at various functions in relation to running costs and transfers in relation to the academy, figures that are no doubt published in City's account, you still find it "hard to believe"

this whole anti-academy feeling is basically one person's view

whereas the majority of the rest of the fan base can see it is and has developed excellent players and over it's course more than paid for it sell.

and yet some feel it's still not joining it's job...........the only thing not doing it's job in my opinion is that person's tablets

[Tom Fleuriot]

Craig Bellamy (sp)

I didn't know we had Bellamy! When did we have him, and who let him go?

Ashtonyate, you'll keep sounding daft until you compare our transfer outlay to our actual academy outlay since inception. Bear in imnd that 6 of our academy won us the ldv and 500k.

[Guest ashtonyate]

so basically despite various figures and amounts being mentioned by various people from the club at various functions in relation to running costs and transfers in relation to the academy, figures that are no doubt published in City's account, you still find it "hard to believe"

this whole anti-academy feeling is basically one person's view

whereas the majority of the rest of the fan base can see it is and has developed excellent players and over it's course more than paid for it sell.

and yet some feel it's still not joining it's job...........the only thing not doing it's job in my opinion is that person's tablets

yes i do find it hard to belive thats all it cost but that cost is only the last few years since the academy has moved to its new base no one can dispute it was costing 675k until 2005 SL said so don't think this forum is a true view of supporters just because a few on here like the academy that not nessarily the view of lot of the fan a lot who i talk to thing the same as me and some on this forum think the same but will not post there views because they would get pick on

[Guest ashtonyate]

I didn't know we had Bellamy! When did we have him, and who let him go?

Ashtonyate, you'll keep sounding daft until you compare our transfer outlay to our actual academy outlay since inception. Bear in imnd that 6 of our academy won us the ldv and 500k.

were these 6 academy player in the side at the millenium that lost to Brighton and lost us 2 million

[Guest scumbag]

yes i do find it hard to belive thats all it cost but that cost is only the last few years since the academy has moved to its new base no one can dispute it was costing 675k until 2005 SL said so don't think this forum is a true view of supporters just because a few on here like the academy that not nessarily the view of lot of the fan a lot who i talk to thing the same as me and some on this forum think the same but will not post there views because they would get pick on

incorrect.

SL never actually said that, he did say in 05 that a few years prior to that it was costing around £675k but that was still in the setup years, the initial 4 years were expensive as facilities had to be delevoped to a certain standard, but once they had been set up the running cost have dropped alot.

MAJORITY on here support the academy, most people non-forum I have spoken to are like most on here and are looking forward to the next few players to break into the team as the quality of player has consistently improved since it's setup, just look at the threads alot of people can't understand why players the quality of Artus, Wilson and Plummer haven't broken through yet

I don't think I've seen someone agree with any of your academy postings as of yet

[WTFiGO!?!]

Perhaps an idea would be that a one-way contract is offered to the 16 year old when he first take's up the apprentiship offer that state's that he remain's with the academy's Club until he become's 20 possibly 21 if wanted until that point?

I do see ashtonyate's point, boys take their training at the cost of our Club and then bugger off when they realise they have talent........ but thousand's upon thousand's miss out on alternative apprentiship's and education to take a chance on Football and end up at the end of it with a good kick in the bollox.

I don't know whether our acadamy take's responsibility to look after the individual's future or not, if it doesn't; I'm City 'till I die, but it does not have my sympathy when the likes of Plummer decide to bugger off.

The gamble is a two way proccess.

Footnote: I may well be talking shit.

[Guest scumbag]

I didn't know we had Bellamy! When did we have him, and who let him go?

he left while still a schoolboy player to join Norwich who at the time had one of the best youth setups in the country, it was before ours was setup I believe and was early 90's

their was a youth coach at City who left to join Norwich and he took a few players with him shortly afterwards, similar sort of situation as with Scott Sinclair I believe, was alongtime ago though and their was no transfer system to deal with such moves back then, thankfully these day's clubs are compensated accordingly

[Dave L]

incorrect.

I don't think I've seen someone agree with any of your academy postings as of yet

True. But lots of people keep disagreeing with him, which gives hime licence to spout the same old drivel over and over again. I stopped reading his posts about a year ago, once it became clear he always writes the same thing. I strongly recommend this course of action as a way of hanging onto your sanity.

[Guest seesaw]

I would hope that Tristan would learn from his brothers mistakes. Dwayne had all the talent in the world but his career path (or lack of it) was reportedly down his attitude problem, he definitely didn't make the most of his abilities. Tristan could be in danger of replicating this. We currently have a manager who is intollerant of anyone with an attitude regardless of their ability. GJ - "If they are not the sort of person I could invite round my house for dinner, then I don't want them playing at my football club".

I've heard he's a very messy eater!

[Guest ashtonyate]

True. But lots of people keep disagreeing with him, which gives hime licence to spout the same old drivel over and over again. I stopped reading his posts about a year ago, once it became clear he always writes the same thing. I strongly recommend this course of action as a way of hanging onto your sanity.

As long as there is an academy post on this forum I will always put the other view from to happy clappers until I see us getting something out of it or it closes down

Now you can believe that