Coaches Weren't Lost - Says Colin Sexstone In The Ep

[greenun]

On Page 2, column 5 of today's Evening Post, is an article entitled:

Delayed

fans miss

first half

of game

The article ends with the following statement from City's CEO, Colin Sexstone:

"I understand that there was an accident on the M4 which held up the coaches.

"They did not get lost. Peter Carol has moved Bristol City supporters around the country for more than 15 years and they have been to Millwall many times.

"Some fans missed as much as 30 minutes of the game, but the coach drivers had to follow police instructions."

There appear to be holes in Colins' argument, given that some fans missed more than 30 minutes of the match. Can he categorically state that none of the 19 coaches got lost. Additionally, weren't there other firms providing coaches on Saturday? I counted Berkley and Baker Dolphin as well as Peter Carol.

What do you think?

[Guest tomvickeryBCFC]

yep i was definately on a berkely coach and we were definately lost, if he wants to argue he can ask every coach passenger on coach 5!! we also saw a coach facing the wrong way asking for directions from the locals, we also did this once, but NO we werent lost we had already been told by the police to drive round london the wrong way and ask for directions from random londoners, IT WAS ALL PLANNED DON'T WORRY!!

pipe down SL with your lies

[Blagdon red]

On Page 2, column 5 of today's Evening Post, is an article entitled:

Delayed

fans miss

first half

of game

The article ends with the following statement from City's CEO, Colin Sexstone:

"I understand that there was an accident on the M4 which held up the coaches.

"They did not get lost. Peter Carol has moved Bristol City supporters around the country for more than 15 years and they have been to Millwall many times.

"Some fans missed as much as 30 minutes of the game, but the coach drivers had to follow police instructions."

There seem to be some holes in Colins' argument, given that some fans missed more than 30 minutes of the match and may have got lost. Additionally, weren't there other coach firms providing coaches on Saturday? I counted Berkley and Baker Dolphin as well as Peter Carol.

What do you think?

I think that's a poor resposne, but unfortunately what one has come to expect from CS, who clearly has little empathy with bread and butter fans. I would not muddy the waters over the identity of the coach companies involved. That quote from CS seems to confirm what I suspected, i.e. that City contracted as usual with Peter Carol and that they - presumably through not having enough coaches of their own available - sub-contracted to the likes of Berkleys and Baker Dolphin.

The club's statement on the OS also appears to be trying to play down the significance of the problem. It's a poor show.

At this stage, the club should simply be apologising without reservation, admitting that it failed the fans and then looking into the reasons and seeking recompense from Peter Carol. Instead, they appear to be looking to wriggle out of responsibility.

In a week when the last thing the club needs is any bad feeling towards it from the fans, they have not started well!

[NickJ]

I think that's a poor resposne, but unfortunately what one has come to expect from CS, who clearly has little empathy with bread and butter fans. I would not muddy the waters over the identity of the coach companies involved. That quote from CS seems to confirm what I suspected, i.e. that City contracted as usual with Peter Carol and that they - presumably through not having enough coaches of their own available - sub-contracted to the likes of Berkleys and Baker Dolphin.

The club's statement on the OS also appears to be trying to play down the significance of the problem. It's a poor show.

At this stage, the club should simply be apologising without reservation, admitting that it failed the fans and then looking into the reasons and seeking recompense from Peter Carol. Instead, they appear to be looking to wriggle out of responsibility.

In a week when the last thing the club needs is any bad feeling towards it from the fans, they have not started well!

Fully agree with every word BR.

I went by train, which was always going to be a better day, and I would never travel by official coach - except of course when civil liberties cease to exist at Swansea. I suppose the reason why so many choose to go by coach is their perception it will be safer and guaranteed to get there on time.

I've read a post elswhere where for example one coach had to do a 3 point turn because he was going the wrong way. Perhaps CS would like to reconcile that with his assertion the coaches weren't lost.

[Dollymarie]

Come on are we sposed to believe anything the evening post says?

Official statement on main site now

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,1...1018327,00.html

[Blagdon red]

Further questions for the club:

On Saturday, CATS were transporting nearly 1,000 fans. If there was no City employee in charge of the operation on the day - as I suspect is the case - is that not irresponsible? Should not one 'operations manager' have been in mobile phone contact with all 19 coaches AND the police AND the 2 clubs. Was any request ever made by BCFC to have the kick-off delayed? Was CS or his representative on the day even aware at 14.45 that c. 1,000 City fans had not arrived at the ground? If not, why not?

I have asked the ST chairman to put these questions to the club.

[greenun]

Come on are we sposed to believe anything the evening post says?

Official statement on main site now

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,1...1018327,00.html

Marie, as you weren't part of Saturday's Magical Mystery Tour, you'd appreciate that it's difficult to toe the party line.

[Andy082005]

On Page 2, column 5 of today's Evening Post, is an article entitled:

Delayed

fans miss

first half

of game

The article ends with the following statement from City's CEO, Colin Sexstone:

"I understand that there was an accident on the M4 which held up the coaches.

"They did not get lost. Peter Carol has moved Bristol City supporters around the country for more than 15 years and they have been to Millwall many times.

"Some fans missed as much as 30 minutes of the game, but the coach drivers had to follow police instructions."

There appear to be holes in Colins' argument, given that some fans missed more than 30 minutes of the match. Can he categorically state that none of the 19 coaches got lost. Additionally, weren't there other firms providing coaches on Saturday? I counted Berkley and Baker Dolphin as well as Peter Carol.

What do you think?

We were totally lost, at one point our driver pulled over and asked a member of the public where the New Den was........

As for the accident on the motorway, we were stuck in that for 30 minutes.......I got to the game at half time

Take that accident away, we still wouldnt have got their until about 3.20pm anyway......

So Mr Sexstone, crap excuse......

As for this "investigation", what it should really say on the end is this...........

"The investigation will be concluded after the Rotherham game, where we hope we will get promoted and will help in taking away all the anger at the shambles that was Millwall"

[court_bcfc]

We were totally lost, at one point our driver pulled over and asked a member of the public where the New Den was........

As for the accident on the motorway, we were stuck in that for 30 minutes.......I got to the game at half time

Take that accident away, we still wouldnt have got their until about 3.20pm anyway......

So Mr Sexstone, crap excuse......

As for this "investigation", what it should really say on the end is this...........

"The investigation will be concluded after the Rotherham game, where we hope we will get promoted and will help in taking away all the anger at the shambles that was Millwall"

One of my friends who went said exactly the same - that the driver asked for directions.

[BS10 RED]

We were definitely lost with out a doubt a bloke got of our coach and ran up to a copper and asked him could he take us to the new den and if it wasn't for that i don't we would of got there before half-time

[Dollymarie]

Marie, as you weren't part of Saturday's Magical Mystery Tour, you'd appreciate that it's difficult to toe the party line.

No you're right I wasnt, and if coach drivers didnt know where they were going then thats totally not on, I'm not against anyone complaining here, but the club have said they are investigating.

And as we already know it wasnt just Peter Carol ferrying people about on Saturday, how much of the EP's story can we believe? The official statement says they are looking into what went wrong, so maybe lets just give them a chance to do this.

[stortfordred]

Was any request ever made by BCFC to have the kick-off delayed? Was CS or his representative on the day even aware at 14.45 that c. 1,000 City fans had not arrived at the ground? If not, why not?

An excellent point. There was a surreal atmos in the ground. Everyone was wondering what had happened and although professional footballers should not be affected, it is inevitable that players respond adversely to a lack of support. It must have been weird for them warming up with no one there.

Remember too that all of us on the trains from London Bridge were deliberately held up. I know some guys left The George just outside the station at 1.40 were still waiting for the train to leave London Bridge at 2.30.

c**k-up or conspiracy?

[greenun]

No you're right I wasnt, and if coach drivers didnt know where they were going then thats totally not on, I'm not against anyone complaining here, but the club have said they are investigating.

And as we already know it wasnt just Peter Carol ferrying people about on Saturday, how much of the EP's story can we believe? The official statement says they are looking into what went wrong.

Marie, Colin Sexstone referred to Peter Carol, not the Evening Post. This is not an Evening Post conspiracy Marie, it's a chance for poorly treated fans to air their views.

[Avonmouth Docker]

What do you think?

Not that i am a "bus" spotter,

but even i could see that the coaches were from different companies!!,

But what do you expect Sextone to say??,

SORRY!!,

Of course not!!.

He is only interested in the Premier seating and possible success of the West Country's sleeping giant!!.

Any decent club, who thought a great deal of their fans would get on the coach providers back, first thing asking for answers!!.

Like if the Met Police wanted to escort the coaches from a designated area, why were the coaches not given instructions to be there at a certain time??.

If there were problems on the M4 with an accident, why weren't the coach drivers given each others mobile numbers so they could pre warn, or keep in contact with alternative routes??.

Surely the Coach drivers would know which service stations to use, how long to stay there for and to be honest, with such a relative short trip up the M4, were they necessary??,

Also the coaches would of had a designated route to follow to get in and out of the New Den with the minimum of hassle, so what was this route??

Did it involve using the M25 or the South Circular??.

Or going via the Westway, then through the centre of London??.

The supporters of Bristol City, the ones who pay week in week out to follow this club, who's hard earned cash helps keep City afloat, who pay the wages of the players, and who deserve a voice, and an opinion deserve proper answers, so this type of thing can be avoided in the future, the Club can insist on better planning from the coach providers,

after all,

if we win on Saturday,

and we gain promotion,

won't there be a bigger demand for travel to Away games next season??.

Supporters hungry for visiting new grounds, watching a better quality of football??.

Or are Lansdown and Sextone hoping that we don't go up, so they don't have to pay more to Wycombe for Betsy, they won't have to pay out more in wages, Policing, etc.

The added cost of going up!!.

It's about time the people who invest in this club listen to those who really mater,

THE FANS!!.

[Guest Deej-Legend]

I didn't go, but my friend has filled me in on what happened on his coach and its ridiculous! full refunds or something along those lines must be in order, surely?

[Guest Ron]

Coach 16 was one of the last one to leave Reading Services, at 12:20pm. But we never got held up. Hmmm...?!?

[CodeRed]

An excellent point. There was a surreal atmos in the ground. Everyone was wondering what had happened and although professional footballers should not be affected, it is inevitable that players respond adversely to a lack of support. It must have been weird for them warming up with no one there.

Remember too that all of us on the trains from London Bridge were deliberately held up. I know some guys left The George just outside the station at 1.40 were still waiting for the train to leave London Bridge at 2.30.

c**k-up or conspiracy?

You've got it exactly right..it WAs weird......We arrived at the Den just after 2pm having fortunately travelled up early by car to Brentford and then tube/pub/London Bridge, The Police were controlling the exit of trains from LB to Sth Ber - trying to move fans down in large escorted groups I suppose , as normally there's 8 trains per hour leaving LB that stop at Sth Ber leaving from several different platforms going on to different lines/destinations. The police were directing fans out onto 1 platform only - no real problem with that given the nature of the home fans.

The point is though that at 2.15 the concousre was very empty, with only a few drinking, and when we took our seats the stand was almost empty.SL was down on the touchline with GJ watching the team warm up and (not sure but it looked like SL was maybe being interviewed by someone)..SL was there until around 2.45/2.50 ...surely he wondered where all the fans were- knowing as he did it was a sell out.....and surely both CS and SL must have noticed when they looked towards the North Stand during the first half that there were large numbers of empty seats....and noticed the big disruption when people were arriving just before H/T and into the 2nd half.

You would have though they might have asked their opposite numbers at Millwall if there was a problem..---given that is was so obvious that something had happened....

CodeRed

[Dollymarie]

Marie, Colin Sexstone referred to Peter Carol, not the Evening Post. This is not an Evening Post conspiracy Marie, it's a chance for poorly treated fans to air their views.

Mark the point I'm trying to make is that the EP has in the past so called "quoted" things that have "been said" when that hasnt always been the case, so maybe they have "quoted" what Colin has said when he hasnt said anything at all. I doubt the club would have spoken to the EP in time to release todays article before they have even released a statement themselves on the clubs official website. I'm not arguing that what happened wasnt good enough I'm arguing about the authenticity of the EP's report.

[giles_23_bcfc]

Mark the point I'm trying to make is that the EP has in the past so called "quoted" things that have "been said" when that hasnt always been the case, so maybe they have "quoted" what Colin has said when he hasnt said anything at all. I doubt the club would have spoken to the EP in time to release todays article before they have even released a statement themselves on the clubs official website. I'm not arguing that what happened wasnt good enough I'm arguing about the authenticity of the EP's report.

Very true. I still think we are owed a fulll and proper explanation and apology. Possibly some sort of refund aswell.

[bh_red]

ahh..Berkeley coaches, can't understand why City still use them, the last time I was an the CATS service (apart from Swansea games) we got lost on the way to the Walkers Stadium.

all the coaches took an exit off of the motorway apart from ours, because our driver believed they were ALL going the wrong way, despite the BIG BLUE MOTORWAY sign saying LEICESTER CITY FC - this exit!

never used Cats again since and am not suprised to hear of people having problems with the Berkeley Coaches

[giles_23_bcfc]

ahh..Berkeley coaches, can't understand why City still use them, the last time I was an the CATS service (apart from Swansea games) we got lost on the way to the Walkers Stadium.

all the coaches took an exit off of the motorway apart from ours, because our driver believed they were ALL going the wrong way, despite the BIG BLUE MOTORWAY sign saying LEICESTER CITY FC - this exit!

never used Cats again since and am not suprised to hear of people having problems with the Berkeley Coaches

To be fair. When i got to AG saturday morning, i only remember seeing 1 Peter Carol coach. The majority of the rest was Bakers Dolphin. One of which i was on.

[Guest Adze]

My coach was late as well.

There seemed to be no communication between the coaches, they just pot lucked their way to the ground, and it did not work.

There needs to be an official apology from the club, it was total unacceptable.

[Blagdon red]

Mark the point I'm trying to make is that the EP has in the past so called "quoted" things that have "been said" when that hasnt always been the case, so maybe they have "quoted" what Colin has said when he hasnt said anything at all. I doubt the club would have spoken to the EP in time to release todays article before they have even released a statement themselves on the clubs official website. I'm not arguing that what happened wasnt good enough I'm arguing about the authenticity of the EP's report.

Dolly, I think even the EP are unlikely to misattribute a direct quote. Assuming Mark's post is a direct copy of what is in the EP (I haven't seen it myself), then CS's quote is there in black and white in quotation marks. That is normally - with all papers - the distinction between third-hand attribution of something that someone is 'said to have said', but may not have, and what indeed they did actually say. As it appears in quotation marks, I think we can take it as read that CS is trying to wriggle out of responsibility and did indeed say the coaches "were not lost". Clearly that statement flies in the face of first hand reports from many fans on this forum and was at the best ill advised and ill informed ... if not downright dismissive of the fans' problems.

So far the club's reponse to this shambles remains poor - I wait with interest to see how it develops as they conclude their 'investigation'.

PS - Have just seen the club's offer of compensation on the OS and admission that some of the drivers were inexperienced ... that's more like it. If CS had not made his earlier statement and this offer had been posted at 9am, then they would have handled the situation well. 8/10 as it is.

The question remains, however: Was CS or anyone else in authority at BCFC aware of the delays on Saturday and was any request made to Millwall / the police to have the kick-off delayed? If not, why not?

[WTFiGO!?!]

Is it Colin Sextones ambition to be made public enemy No.1 or what?

Even I'd be proud of a ##### up of that scale Saturday.

Compensation is due.

[tin]

Unfortunately, I've come to expect this sort of response from CS. This was a perfect chance for him to regain some creditablity amongst the fans and he pipes up with his usual ignorant rubbish.

Why can't SL come out and comment on this? With all the money his company is rumoured to make him in the the coming weeks I'm sure he could afford to either refund those affected or provide them with at least a free CATS voucher for next season/play-offs. It would be nothing more than a tiny drop in the ocean.

[The Man In Black]

Seen the news story on the official site, seems a pretty reasonable offer.

[giles_23_bcfc]

Seen the news story on the official site, seems a pretty reasonable offer.

Fair paly to the club. Seems a fairly reasonable offer. Couldnt really ask for a full refund apart from the people on the coach that got turned away.

don't know what option i will take though

[Dollymarie]

Fair play to them refunds all round.

[greenun]

Mark the point I'm trying to make is that the EP has in the past so called "quoted" things that have "been said" when that hasnt always been the case, so maybe they have "quoted" what Colin has said when he hasnt said anything at all. I doubt the club would have spoken to the EP in time to release todays article before they have even released a statement themselves on the clubs official website. I'm not arguing that what happened wasnt good enough I'm arguing about the authenticity of the EP's report.

Marie, its a direct quote from Colin Sexstone, copied from the Evening Post. I'm disappointed that you're choosing to blame the Evening Post, rather than keeping an open mind about City supporters' genuine grievances. Especially considering that you're a board member of the Supporters Trust.

[Dollymarie]

Its a quote from what the EP says Colin Sextone has said. If it was Colin saying it on the official site then it would be true, as its the EP I doubt it. As I said earlier, why would the EP be running a story when the club themselves havent even commented yet?

People have short memories around here of the way the EP likes to treat Bristol City and its fans.

And I know of another non football related article last week that the EP ran that just wasnt true.

Bh Red still has his avatar reminding us of the last EP muck up.

And just because I'm part of the Supporters Trust (of which you are still a member Mark and are still doing work for) doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion.

If you want to get into a war of words bring it on. As you write for the EP do you not think you might have a slightly biased view on things as well?

The club have offered refunds. End of arguement.

[WTFiGO!?!]

All's well that ends well so chill out folks I reckon.

This has now thankfully become the all important quote:

The Club will now be concentrating its attentions fully on Saturday's crucial final day game against Rotherham United.

[Andy082005]

Its a quote from what the EP says Colin Sextone has said. If it was Colin saying it on the official site then it would be true, as its the EP I doubt it.

People have short memories around here of the way the EP likes to treat Bristol City and its fans.

And I know of another non football related article last week that the EP ran that just wasnt true.

Bh Red still has his avatar reminding us of the last EP muck up.

And just because I'm part of the Supporters Trust (of which you are still a member Mark and are still doing work for) doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion.

If you want to get into a war of words bring it on. As you write for the EP do you not think you might have a slightly biased view on things as well?

The club have offered refunds. End of arguement.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

[bringbacktherobin]

O, i really don't know how I'm going to spend that £10.

I don't wish to ever use cats again after my coach driver got lost three times, tried to crash us about three times.

What about half of the £19 for the match day ticket, seeing as i only saw half of it.

I don't get this club some times, the fans that just wanted to get to the game safely, get there without trouble.

Most fans ended up in more trouble than if they went by train or drove up.

[greenun]

Its a quote from what the EP says Colin Sextone has said.

People have short memories around here of the way the EP likes to treat Bristol City and its fans.

And I know of another non football related article last week that the EP ran that just wasnt true.

Bh Red still has his avatar reminding us of the last EP muck up.

And just because I'm part of the Supporters Trust (of which you are still a member Mark and are still doing work for) doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion.

If you want to get into a war of words bring it on. As you write for the EP do you not think you might have a slightly biased view on things as well?

The club have offered refunds. End of arguement.

Marie, as I was the person who highlighted Adam Stones' article about Bradley Orr on this forum, I'm surprised you're accusing me of being biased in favour of the Evening Post. Furthermore, I don't get paid for any of my contributions, they're purely voluntary.

Secondly, I don't intend to enter into any 'war of words' and I'm sorry you feel this way about a colleague who challenged your postings objectively.

[RedTop]

1. What happened was appalling. There's no doubt from those I spoke to at the ground who had turned up just before half time that the drivers WERE lost. They then arrived at the appointed place to find the police escort had left without them, forcing them to wait while another one could be found. A shambles and a disgrace. I felt very sorry for those who were trailing in just before half time - after setting out at 9.30am.

2. I don't think the club itself can be blamed for this at all. The police at Millwall clearly have a lot to answer for (as always - I was physically manhandled and nearly arrested after the game at London Bridge Station for refusing to be pushed onto a train to Paddington, which was not unreasonable as I had a ticket from London Bridge to my home in Kent. I was repeatedly and aggressively pushed down an escalator by officers in riot gear when I stood my ground and would probably have been arrested if I had not started filming the incident on my phone to prove that I was being assaulted despite doing nothing at all wrong and being entirely polite and non-violent. But that's standard operating procedure when we play Millwall. You expect to be treated like animals, whether you deserve it or not) So too, it would appear, do the coach company. But it's hard to see how City, SteveL or ColinS can be blamed. Realistically, I can't see how the understandable bad feeling should be aimed at them.

I do hope the club doesn't just take their word for it, though, and stands up for the way fans who took the coach were treated at that game. Whether it is the police, the coach operator or (as I suspect) both who are to blame, I hope the club listens and acts on behalf of the suppporters who paid the price. It has to be in everyone's interests for people to have confidence in the official coach travel, since this offers a way for all fans to get to matches regardless of their circumstances, and in the interests of police to have as many people as possible on coaches where they can be most easily taken to and from the ground in safety. I do not susbscribe to those who come on here sneering about CATS. I now drive to games but I have used it in the past - before I had a car - and have always found it great value and well run. But if the police or the coach operators contrive to make it unreliable, then fewer people will use the service, which can't be good for anyone.

If the police cannot do their job and guarantee that those people get to the game BEFORE kick-off, as they are entitled to do, then the club needs to make it clear this is not acceptable - whether it be a deliberate ploy, or just incompetence - and secure an assurance that it will not happen again. Likewise, surely for a driver not to know his route and to get lost going to a ground - which is what a number of those I spoke to on the day said happened - is entirely unacceptable. It's hard to believe all those I spoke to, or who are posting on here, are lying when they talk of drivers having to stop and ask the way etc. No accident on the M4 explains that.

Yes, the contract fans have for travel is with BCFC. But the club can't be directly blamed for what happened. I don't think that would be reasonable at all, especially as the service in the past has been very good. What the club can do, though, is to make sure those who DID fail in their duty of care to the club's customers on this occasion are made to pay for it so that it is stressed clear how seriously the club takes its customers being treated so badly. If that means withholding payment from Peter Carol (who could in turn withhold it from sub-contractors if it is their fault) and returning money to those who lost out, then so be it.

The most important thing is that those who want to use the club coaches in future can have absolute confidence that they will get to games in good time. Even if that means the police being 'inconvenienced' by having to allow a gap for bad traffic rather than expecting fans to fit in with them even if it means missing half of the very match they have come to see.

Finally, one thought. If ever there was an extra reason why the team HAVE to win on Saturday and get us out of this division, surely the prospect of all of us not being put through the humiliation of being a football fan treated the way we routinely are at Millwall must rank pretty high! I hated myself for insisting on being at the game on Saturday despite knowing the way I would be treated. I hate myself for knowing that if we have to play them again, I'll be there again, being pushed, shoved around and talked to by people in authority like I'm some sort of animal with a contageous disease. I just hope it doesn't happen for a long time.

[megansdad]

People have every right to be very fed up with events on Saturday but the statement from the club offering compensation to everyone that travelled with CATS seems entirely reasonsable - quotes re the prior reliability seem also reasonable as nothing like this has happened before. Would have been better to await the formal response from the club before moaning in the way some have on this thread, which simply demonstrates that a number of you will find fault no matter what the club does or does not do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing- should there have been a co-ordinator on every prior match day as suggested above? or just for this one because the club should surely have foreseen accidents on the M4!!

[megansdad]

O, i really don't know how I'm going to spend that £10.

Suggest you read it again or perhaps could I have the ten pound REFUND you don't want???

[Dollymarie]

Marie, as I was the person who highlighted Adam Stones' article about Bradley Orr on this forum, I'm surprised you're accusing me of being biased in favour of the Evening Post. Furthermore, I don't get paid for any of my contributions, they're purely voluntary.

Secondly, I don't intend to enter into any 'war of words' and I'm sorry you feel this way about a colleague who challenged your postings objectively.

I was merely challenging your views as well, I only got annoyed when you brought the "Your a Supporters trust member" into it because as I said I am still entitled to an opinion.

I didnt mean to upset you and I apologise if I have.

[Blagdon red]

People have every right to be very fed up with events on Saturday but the statement from the club offering compensation to everyone that travelled with CATS seems entirely reasonsable - quotes re the prior reliability seem also reasonable as nothing like this has happened before. Would have been better to await the formal response from the club before moaning in the way some have on this thread, which simply demonstrates that a number of you will find fault no matter what the club does or does not do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing- should there have been a co-ordinator on every prior match day as suggested above? or just for this one because the club should surely have foreseen accidents on the M4!!

When the club have nearly 1,000 of their most loyal customers being transported to a game via a service that the club has arranged, I think it is not unreasonable to expect an officer / employee of the club to have been charged with the responsibility of overseeing the smooth running of this operation. If that only meant somebody being in mobile phone contact from Bristol / Millwall with the lead volunteer on each coach, it would have meant - and would mean in the future in similar circumstances - that the problems would have been flagged up early on and, at the very least, a request could have been made for a delayed kick-off. I hope in due course we will be advised that the club were aware of the problems and did ask for a delay. If they were either unaware or were aware but did not ask for a delay, it's a pretty poor show.

[bringbacktherobin]

megansdad, what do i have to read again?

I spent £16 on a coach to get me to the ground on time, i didn't get their on time. The coach driver was erratic to say the least.

I paid £16 for a terrible service so i want £16 back. I do not wish to use cats again after yesterday, i paid £16 so why do i only get £10 back?

Also seeing as i spent £19 to see a full match of football and i saw only 45 minutes of it, i think that is the clubs fault.

[megansdad]

Your note implied the 10 quid needed to be spent on the coach it doesn't - you get a full refund of the journey if you use CATS again and given there has only be one instance like this I think that is reasonable-Don't think this is the club's fault personally and think their response has been reasonable and measured. Millwall received the ticket money. sothe club is offering a full refund of what you spent with them.

[Andy082005]

People have every right to be very fed up with events on Saturday but the statement from the club offering compensation to everyone that travelled with CATS seems entirely reasonsable - quotes re the prior reliability seem also reasonable as nothing like this has happened before. Would have been better to await the formal response from the club before moaning in the way some have on this thread, which simply demonstrates that a number of you will find fault no matter what the club does or does not do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing- should there have been a co-ordinator on every prior match day as suggested above? or just for this one because the club should surely have foreseen accidents on the M4!!

I agree with 99% of this thread, right up to your last paragraph...

The accident was not the reason we were late. The coach I was on got stuck in that traffic, it was jammed for 30 minutes! As said before, say that accident didnt happen, we still wouldnt have got to the game until 3.20pm

There were TWO reasons why this fiasco occured, they are

1, poor communication between police and Bristol City about the route that was to be taken. For crying out loud, trawling 20 miles through London on a Saturday is bound to result in chaos, think how busy that City is! One of the busiest in the World

2, The police again cocking up with the Escort! The drivers had directions to the Rendezvous point, that was it! The drivers knew their way to the ground, but were instructed of a RVP just off of Clapham common. The police left without 17 coaches!! and then refused to come back and, I quote "You will have to make your own way there". As poor and inexperienced some of the drivers may be, if they are not provided with directions.....law of averages say you will get lost!

You could argue they should have directions just in case something like this occurs, but the police insisted on this escort when the drivers wanted to go M4 then M25, they should have been there!!!

90% of the blame, I believe, lie at the door of the Old Bill. Like many police forces in this country, they were poor

[Bristol Boy]

I don't know but Peter Carol may well have sub contracted some of the work to other companies.

[Guest Ron]

Considering that about 10 of the coaches were Bakers Dolphin, and only 3-4 coaches had arrived by the time of the First Whistle - Is it not slightly regardless of the relationship with Peter Carroll?

I went to Port Vale about 15 months ago with Peter Carroll, and our driver wasn't Polish. Both drivers who I saw driving BD buses were!

[Chivs]

1. What happened was appalling. There's no doubt from those I spoke to at the ground who had turned up just before half time that the drivers WERE lost. They then arrived at the appointed place to find the police escort had left without them, forcing them to wait while another one could be found. A shambles and a disgrace. I felt very sorry for those who were trailing in just before half time - after setting out at 9.30am.

2. I don't think the club itself can be blamed for this at all.

Yes, the contract fans have for travel is with BCFC. But the club can't be directly blamed for what happened.

There's a difference between "blaming" and being held responsible. The contract was with the Club to deliver the fans to the match on-time. They failed to honour the contract and seemingly they can't blame "acts of god" e.g. a major accident on the M4 although CS is trying to do just that.

I believe the club should provide a full refund to the affected people and then provide recompense.£10 cash refund is laughable. If you went on a charter holiday with Thomas Cook and they managed to get you to your holiday destination on the last day of your holiday you may feel somewhat aggrieved! This is the same principle.

[RedTop]

Seems to me that the club have handled it very well. They basically confirm that it was "inexperienced drivers" and the fact that the police were involved, which seems at odds with what the Evening Post printed.

I think the fact that they've acted swiftly and managed to get compensation in place within three hours of the start of the working week, and been frank about the reasons for the c**k-up, deserves some credit.

As they say, CATS travel has usually been very good and hopefully this is a blip. I also hope the club have:

a/ Let rip at the coach company and the police

b/ Learned any lessons that need to be learned about someone at the club keeping close control of the convoy, if this wasn't happening before.

But credit where it's due for a swift response which, as Megansdad says, is fair and measured.

As the club says, now we ALL have to devote our attention to Saturday.

[megansdad]

the contract was to deliver the fans on time the club failed to deliver and are offering a full refund of the price paid under the contract - don't see how that is laughable.

[AtyeoRed]

So the coaches were not lost according to Mr Sexstone.

Well I was on No5 and we were most certainlt lost, stuck in the back of beyond with not a Copper in sight when you need one (as

usual.) I'm betting Colin Sexstone did not travel by CATS. what do you think?

[everreddy]

the contract was to deliver the fans on time the club failed to deliver and are offering a full refund of the price paid under the contract - don't see how that is laughable.

Point is, no acount has been taken of the "insult added to injury" at Reading Services, on the way back, where we had to wait for replacement drivers, as the original drivers had apparently "driven their hours": not surprising, since they had driven aimlessly around Greenwich, Bermondsey and all points East End, even driving past the stadium several times!.

I was on coach 10, with a non English speaking driver, no sat nav, no map ... no nous! Arrived at the ground at 3.40pm, spent over 10 hours on the coach, 65 minutes in the ground - and a further two hours driving to AG to get to/from the coach - all because , like many fans, I was intimidated out of a much easier direct train journey from Bradford on Avon to London.

While the club cannot be blamed, I think £10 refund is derisory. Also I think that there should be someone in a senior capacity, at AG, to co-ordinate travel and resolve any problems, on the day. If CS is in charge, words need to be said....

[RedTop]

There's a difference between "blaming" and being held responsible. The contract was with the Club to deliver the fans to the match on-time. They failed to honour the contract and seemingly they can't blame "acts of god" e.g. a major accident on the M4 although CS is trying to do just that.

No he's not, he's said categorically on the website that it was also due to "inexperienced drivers" and the police. That sounds very similar to what the fans caught up in it were describing to me on Saturday.

I agree that there's a difference between "blaming" and being held responsible. By making recompense, the club are accepting - as you would eexpect, and as they should - that it is up to them to sort it out. But that shouldn't lead to people having a pop at the club directly. It seems to me they've acted swiftly and CS has taken on board very quickly the experiences of the fans. What he says on the website bears little resemblence to the quote in the EP saying the coaches weren't lost. So either he was misquoted or has very swiftly read and taken on board what fans say. Either way, I think he deserves credit for doign it quickly and hopefully defusing a potential cause of bad feeling in the lead up to a match where we need everyone to be pulling in the same direction.

As pointed out on the website, hopefully it now means everyone at the club can concentrate their efforts on Saturday.

[Guest DanC]

Coach 16 was one of the last one to leave Reading Services, at 12:20pm. But we never got held up. Hmmm...?!?

Coach 16 stopped at Heathrow and not Reading and that's why we got there before kick off as we missed the accident.

[Guest Ron]

Coach 16 stopped at Heathrow and not Reading and that's why we got there before kick off as we missed the accident.

As did other coaches which didn't make it by 3pm.

[megansdad]

And why exactly should CS travel by Cats? and as for coordination how many hundred away days have passed without incident?

[bartolona]

Remember too that all of us on the trains from London Bridge were deliberately held up. I know some guys left The George just outside the station at 1.40 were still waiting for the train to leave London Bridge at 2.30.

c**k-up or conspiracy?

That was us, directed to the train and told to wait for the escort from Whitechapel to arrive, Would of been quicker walking.

[Guest richerella]

There's a difference between "blaming" and being held responsible. The contract was with the Club to deliver the fans to the match on-time. They failed to honour the contract and seemingly they can't blame "acts of god" e.g. a major accident on the M4 although CS is trying to do just that.

I believe the club should provide a full refund to the affected people and then provide recompense.£10 cash refund is laughable. If you went on a charter holiday with Thomas Cook and they managed to get you to your holiday destination on the last day of your holiday you may feel somewhat aggrieved! This is the same principle.

For Sextone to say that the coaches weren't lost only highlights his lack of grasp on the situation. I turned round to plod at 2:45 and was advised they were not holding up the kick-off - then I asked how far the coaches were away. "Don't know" he said "We don't where they are!" - in anyones language that means they were lost. If you don't know where your wallet is - it's lost - no matter for how long!

The next thing he mentions is that "Peter Carol have been transporting City fans for 15 years" - an irrelevance. Polish drivers without adequate Sat-Nav are not up to the job.

FURTHER = Typing the name of the road that the New Den is on into a phone for directions resulted in City fans being dropped off at the home end - they were lucky the game had started and that they were late. I don't need to highlight the "issues" that would have ensued had the arrival occured at a different stage. This is almost negligence frankly.

This was a shambles which the club should own up to and take responsibility. I don't think anyone here wants blood for this but someone should stand up and take responsibility - that way respect and trust will be restored otherwise resentment will fester at this shambles.

[robins72]

Anyway lets get on with getting behind the team now and getting out of this division u redssssssssss

[Bristol Boy]

1. What happened was appalling. There's no doubt from those I spoke to at the ground who had turned up just before half time that the drivers WERE lost. They then arrived at the appointed place to find the police escort had left without them, forcing them to wait while another one could be found. A shambles and a disgrace. I felt very sorry for those who were trailing in just before half time - after setting out at 9.30am.

2. I don't think the club itself can be blamed for this at all. The police at Millwall clearly have a lot to answer for (as always - I was physically manhandled and nearly arrested after the game at London Bridge Station for refusing to be pushed onto a train to Paddington, which was not unreasonable as I had a ticket from London Bridge to my home in Kent. I was repeatedly and aggressively pushed down an escalator by officers in riot gear when I stood my ground and would probably have been arrested if I had not started filming the incident on my phone to prove that I was being assaulted despite doing nothing at all wrong and being entirely polite and non-violent. But that's standard operating procedure when we play Millwall. You expect to be treated like animals, whether you deserve it or not) So too, it would appear, do the coach company. But it's hard to see how City, SteveL or ColinS can be blamed. Realistically, I can't see how the understandable bad feeling should be aimed at them.

I do hope the club doesn't just take their word for it, though, and stands up for the way fans who took the coach were treated at that game. Whether it is the police, the coach operator or (as I suspect) both who are to blame, I hope the club listens and acts on behalf of the suppporters who paid the price. It has to be in everyone's interests for people to have confidence in the official coach travel, since this offers a way for all fans to get to matches regardless of their circumstances, and in the interests of police to have as many people as possible on coaches where they can be most easily taken to and from the ground in safety. I do not susbscribe to those who come on here sneering about CATS. I now drive to games but I have used it in the past - before I had a car - and have always found it great value and well run. But if the police or the coach operators contrive to make it unreliable, then fewer people will use the service, which can't be good for anyone.

If the police cannot do their job and guarantee that those people get to the game BEFORE kick-off, as they are entitled to do, then the club needs to make it clear this is not acceptable - whether it be a deliberate ploy, or just incompetence - and secure an assurance that it will not happen again. Likewise, surely for a driver not to know his route and to get lost going to a ground - which is what a number of those I spoke to on the day said happened - is entirely unacceptable. It's hard to believe all those I spoke to, or who are posting on here, are lying when they talk of drivers having to stop and ask the way etc. No accident on the M4 explains that.

Yes, the contract fans have for travel is with BCFC. But the club can't be directly blamed for what happened. I don't think that would be reasonable at all, especially as the service in the past has been very good. What the club can do, though, is to make sure those who DID fail in their duty of care to the club's customers on this occasion are made to pay for it so that it is stressed clear how seriously the club takes its customers being treated so badly. If that means withholding payment from Peter Carol (who could in turn withhold it from sub-contractors if it is their fault) and returning money to those who lost out, then so be it.

The most important thing is that those who want to use the club coaches in future can have absolute confidence that they will get to games in good time. Even if that means the police being 'inconvenienced' by having to allow a gap for bad traffic rather than expecting fans to fit in with them even if it means missing half of the very match they have come to see.

Finally, one thought. If ever there was an extra reason why the team HAVE to win on Saturday and get us out of this division, surely the prospect of all of us not being put through the humiliation of being a football fan treated the way we routinely are at Millwall must rank pretty high! I hated myself for insisting on being at the game on Saturday despite knowing the way I would be treated. I hate myself for knowing that if we have to play them again, I'll be there again, being pushed, shoved around and talked to by people in authority like I'm some sort of animal with a contageous disease. I just hope it doesn't happen for a long time.

Well put together as always Brian and there are some undeniable facts:

• The Coaches were very late.
• The Coaches left Bristol at 9.30 and didn't arrive for a 3pm kick off appx 130 miles away.
• That means 23 miles per hour door to door and go out and drive at 23mph and see just how very slow that is.
• It is for the club to compensate fans as the fans paid the club for travel & tickets.That the club passe that money on is irrelevant both in terms of passing on funds or responsibility
• The offset the club makes against Peter Carrol or The Police is an issue for them and the same rules apply under contract law.
• Unless all of the posters are lying then the coaches or at least some of them, got lost.
• If they didn't get lost how come it took them about six hours to make a two and a half hour trip.
• Why didn't the Police collect the coaches and escort them directly to the ground? I am sure that had Tony Blair left Bristol for London on Saturday, it wouldn't have taken him six hours.

These questions need to be asked and answered and the Club will do itself an enormous diservice if they don't take up the cudgel on the coach fans behalf.

[Chivs]

the contract was to deliver the fans on time the club failed to deliver and are offering a full refund of the price paid under the contract - don't see how that is laughable.

Is £10 a full refund? The offer of a voucher for upto £18 suggests that £10 doesn't provide a full refund?

I also think the club need to take responsibility (and provide recompense) for the (half) game that many fans missed due to their incompetence.

[BCAGFC]

If it had been a plane arranged for Premier Club members CS would probably be offering them a months holiday in the Maldives as compensation.

BCAGFC

To the theme of the milk advert-

CS: "Ordinary football fans - WHO ARE THEY!!!".

[Bristol Boy]

And why exactly should CS travel by Cats? and as for coordination how many hundred away days have passed without incident?

If he did, then perhaps he would grasp the matchday experience/ or in this case lack of, from a fans point of view, as opposed to his own cosseted experience of "Soccer".

The club employed a sub contractor (Peter Carrol) to carry out a service for which it charged.That service DID NOT deliver what it had been paid for therefore a loss was incurred whether that loss was deliberate or not.From what the EP has quoted CS as saying, he is merely repeating what his supplier is telling him at face value, which is unwise.

The fans contract is with BCFC because that's who they paid and they therefore have no right of recourse with anyone else.

It is for City to reimburse their customers and for City to then offset that by gaining recompense from Peter Carroll-Peter Carroll from their supplier (Bakers Dolphin?) and so on.They can then sue the Met if they didn't provide escorts or if the escorts were not properly instructed and organised.If that is proved then the controlling officer could well face disciplinary action fr failing to ensure public order or a failure to carry out hus duties correctly.

One cannot simply say, sorry not my problem, bad luck, ring your hands and walk away.

[RedTop]

For Sextone to say that the coaches weren't lost only highlights his lack of grasp on the situation.

He hasn't. He has said on the official website that it was due not just to an accident but to "inexperienced drivers" and the police.

This was a shambles which the club should own up to and take responsibility. I don't think anyone here wants blood for this but someone should stand up and take responsibility - that way respect and trust will be restored otherwise resentment will fester at this shambles.

Surely the club is taking responibility. I think the club acted very quickly - within three hours of the start of the working week they were offering refunds.

As has been stated elsewhere, the coaches are usually very reliable and they are a damned sight cheaper than most other ways of getting to games. No, not everyone likes to rock up just before the match and leave straight away, but years of pretty unblemished service surely puts this incident into context, and given that the club have acted quickly I think it would be a shame to let this distract anyone within the club or in the stands from next Saturday.

[Guest STA-BS14]

No doubt about it, our driver didnt have a clue, coach 8, Arleen.

£10 compensation is a pitiful amount offered for what we went through, and we paid £37 to watch 45 mins of football, what a load of rubbish, get the facts right.

[Drew Peacock]

Dolly, I think even the EP are unlikely to misattribute a direct quote.

At the risk of agreeing with DM twice in two days, I think it is more than likely that a direct quote could be changed, made up or used completely out of context.

[Dollymarie]

At the risk of agreeing with DM twice in two days, I think it is more than likely that a direct quote could be changed, made up or used completely out of context.

Will wonders never cease!

Again I cannot understand why CS would have spoken to the EP before the club had officially investigated, and as the official club website article now states that the problems were partly down to inexperienced drivers I doubt their "Colin Sexton says" story even more.

[Guest !*((kacey))*!]

The Peter Carol Coaches Were The Only Coaches That Knew There Way As If There Wasnt An Accident On The M4 We Would Have Made It To The Ground On Time And As For All The Other Coaches Not Being Lost Is A Lie Cus How Can Yu Explain For The Coach That So Say Went All The Way To Essex And Coaches That Stopped To Collect A Map Of London!

[BCAGFC]

No doubt about it, our driver didnt have a clue, coach 8, Arleen.

Aah Arleen there is a name that rings a bell, surprised they actually supplied coaches after their last expericence at Milwall quite a few years ago.

BCAGFC

[Bristol Boy]

Seems to me that the club have handled it very well. They basically confirm that it was "inexperienced drivers" and the fact that the police were involved, which seems at odds with what the Evening Post printed.

I think the fact that they've acted swiftly and managed to get compensation in place within three hours of the start of the working week, and been frank about the reasons for the c**k-up, deserves some credit.

As they say, CATS travel has usually been very good and hopefully this is a blip. I also hope the club have:

a/ Let rip at the coach company and the police

b/ Learned any lessons that need to be learned about someone at the club keeping close control of the convoy, if this wasn't happening before.

But credit where it's due for a swift response which, as Megansdad says, is fair and measured.

As the club says, now we ALL have to devote our attention to Saturday.

But explain to me why:

£10 cash £16/18 compensation by voucher?

No % refund on ticket which the club can attempt to reclaim from Peter Carroll or Met Police if, as you say, they appear to be at fault?

[Andy082005]

If he did, then perhaps he would grasp the matchday experience/ or in this case lack of, from a fans point of view, as opposed to his own cosseted experience of "Soccer".

The club employed a sub contractor (Peter Carrol) to carry out a service for which it charged.That service DID NOT deliver what it had been paid for therefore a loss was incurred whether that loss was deliberate or not.From what the EP has quoted CS as saying, he is merely repeating what his supplier is telling him at face value, which is unwise.

The fans contract is with BCFC because that's who they paid and they therefore have no right of recourse with anyone else.

It is for City to reimburse their customers and for City to then offset that by gaining recompense from Peter Carroll-Peter Carroll from their supplier (Bakers Dolphin?) and so on.They can then sue the Met if they didn't provide escorts or if the escorts were not properly instructed and organised.If that is proved then the controlling officer could well face disciplinary action fr failing to ensure public order or a failure to carry out hus duties correctly.

One cannot simply say, sorry not my problem, bad luck, ring your hands and walk away.

A very well thought out post, good shout.

Ive just been to Cuba, and whilst on there booked a two day trip to Havana. Although it was a Thomas Cook trip, the coach we went by was probally locally owned. If that coach had broke down and I had missed one of the days in Havana, id demand a refund through Thomas Cook, I wouldnt go to the local coach company would I?

It would then be down to Thomas Cook to seek their own compensation claim

As you said, we bought our tickets through Bristol City. Regardless of whether it was all their fault or not, a full refund should be in order, then either City or the coach company should seek compenstation from the police etc

At the end of the day, the only people who have suffered from this....is us! as always is the case!!

The £10 should have been the refund for the match ticket, along with a full refund for the coaches

[redmelsh]

I persobnally think the refundf is pretty good, a free catch coach next season is approximatly a full refund. Okay there was the hastle of turning up late and a six hour journey, but a free coach trip next year is more than i expected to get.

[Bristol Boy]

I persobnally think the refundf is pretty good, a free catch coach next season is approximatly a full refund. Okay there was the hastle of turning up late and a six hour journey, but a free coach trip next year is more than i expected to get.

Then you're very easily satisfied.

As a customer you should have a choice.

Money back or compensation by way of offer, should be equal.

I won't go with the Official Coaches again unless we have another Swansea/Cardiff situation.