Lee Johnson & Red Card [merged]

[Guest maidenheadred]

Um... wasn't at the game but have now caught the 'offence' on Sky Sports news a few times and all I can say to those 'holier than thou' individuals crucifying Johnson on here is to get a grip. Dida incident; are you TRYING to be labled Johnson haters?

It might not be the 1930 ideal of sportsman-like values to fall over when struck, but if Safri is going to hit LJ round the head about 5 yards from the ref I don't really think what Johnson does is important.

And as for this "getting a 'fellow pro' sent off" gubbins, maybe Safri should have shown him the same level of respect and not smacked him round the head. He got hi just deserts for letting his temper get the better of him. 'Fellow pro' my behind.

havent seen the reply but saw enough when it happened live.

Johnson was tapped on the head, and he made a meal of it - to get a fellow pro sent off, and to waste some time.

There are tolerable levels of gamesmanship (basso wasting time for example), but that stepped over the line. Lee was wrong - and in my opinion any attempt to defend him is wrong as well. We would go MAD if any saints player had done that to one of our players... imagine what we'd be saying now if Marv was looking at a 3 match ban!?

GJ deflected it gracefully on the radio, but I have now some hope that he and backroom staff will have a word with Lee, and tell him and the squad that's not how we want to win. And i hope anyone above who even partly defends Lee for getting a fellow pro sent off also come to the same conclusions themselves..!

[brady bunch]

I actually thought it was quite clever, we were hanging on by the skin of our teeth and Johnson probably bought us a minute in injury time.

I am no fan of LJ, but yours is the best comment todate, he was not trying to get the bloke sent off, he was "WASTING TIME" for the sake of the team, just as Basso did everytime the ball went back to him. There is no way Lee thought about getting him sent off, just that it would waste a few more seconds (that we badly needed as our backs were to the wall).

I do not agree in the cold light of day and Lee will probably reflect on it and think the same, but in the heat of the moment going down and wasting time was just what we needed.

[samo]

havent seen the reply but saw enough when it happened live.

Johnson was tapped on the head, and he made a meal of it - to get a fellow pro sent off, and to waste some time.

There are tolerable levels of gamesmanship (basso wasting time for example), but that stepped over the line. Lee was wrong - and in my opinion any attempt to defend him is wrong as well. We would go MAD if any saints player had done that to one of our players... imagine what we'd be saying now if Marv was looking at a 3 match ban!?

GJ deflected it gracefully on the radio, but I have now some hope that he and backroom staff will have a word with Lee, and tell him and the squad that's not how we want to win. And i hope anyone above who even partly defends Lee for getting a fellow pro sent off also come to the same conclusions themselves..!

Don't get me wrong; he did make a meal of it, there is no denying that at all. But after seeing it a few times (and I made sure to see it at least three times before passing commnent) I really think saying it was our 'Dida at Celtic' moment is farcical.

GJ will most likely have a word and that should be the end of it, but LJ has reacted to what was a red-card offecence, not created controversy like Rivaldo versus Turkey in the World Cup a few years back or the afformentioned Dida incident. If it was Marvin Elliot I would be upset, but he would have been sent off for raising his hands anyway, so I'd be pssed that he lost his temper like that because that isn't professional. Safri committed violent conduct and got sent and any City player doing what he did should expect the same.

I like the fact I am (to quote you're post) "wrong" to put my view on the incident. Sorry if you disagree with my reading f the situation, but I don't think it's fair to jump all over one of our players for next to nothing when a Southampton player was the primary antagonist.

[Guest maidenheadred]

I am no fan of LJ, but yours is the best comment todate, he was not trying to get the bloke sent off, he was "WASTING TIME" for the sake of the team, just as Basso did everytime the ball went back to him. There is no way Lee thought about getting him sent off, just that it would waste a few more seconds (that we badly needed as our backs were to the wall).

I do not agree in the cold light of day and Lee will probably reflect on it and think the same, but in the heat of the moment going down and wasting time was just what we needed.

i am a fan of LJ, and think people who expect a 5'8" £50k, £2.5k a week footballer to do any better than he is now are delluded (but that's an another argument..!)

but that wasnt act of time wasting, that was an act of simulation, and every footballer knows that risks getting a fellow pro sent off.

Hopefully management and lee realise that this morning.

[sodburyred]

NOw if it was david noble or elliot who had gone down would he be getting all this stick? I think not!!

[OnCider]

I saw the incident pretty well from half-way up block C of the Dolman although I haven't seen the replay on TV yet. The Saints player seemed to hit him right in the back of the neck and I would imagine - like Madger said above - that the surprise of being hit on the back of the head with any force would probably make you go over.

Its illegal in boxing isn't it?

Anyway Safri was an idiot for doing it and deserved to be sent off.

[Nibor]

NOw if it was david noble or elliot who had gone down would he be getting all this stick? I think not!!

I'd feel exactly the same about it.

LJ wasn't floored. He got tapped, the opportunity occurred to him a second or two later and he chose to go down. He got up immediately the red card was shown with no ill effects whatsoever.

It was poor behaviour IMO and I don't find it surprising he's getting criticism for it.

This whole Johnson-hater b***ocks is laughable. Any player would have got the same reaction from me and I'm sure other posters too. I can even remember posting something similar when Cotterill took a dive a couple of seasons ago.

[gazareth]

[Nibor]

Note, no mention of "raising hands". I hardly think that a gentle clip round the back of the head counts as "violent conduct".

I'm pretty sure the FA instruct refs that raised hands to an opponent's head IS violent conduct.

Regardless he was going because he was getting booked for the challenge, in fact he was lucky not to be shown a yellow twice.

[gazareth]

I'm pretty sure the FA instruct refs that raised hands to an opponent's head IS violent conduct.

I'd like to see the FA or a referee clarify this. There's a good column from a ref's perspective every week on football365 and I remember a whole diatribe about the "raising hands" thing some time last season.

[Nibor]

I'd like to see the FA or a referee clarify this. There's a good column from a ref's perspective every week on football365 and I remember a whole diatribe about the "raising hands" thing some time last season.

I'd be interested to see what a ref has to say too. I get the impression they are instructed that way from Sky/MOTD pundits saying so but that doesn't mean it's accurate.

[samo]

I'd be interested to see what a ref has to say too. I get the impression they are instructed that way from Sky/MOTD pundits saying so but that doesn't mean it's accurate.

Hang about, have you seen the incident again? Because in my view the guy pushed LJ in the head after he went down under a bad challenge (no one is saying its a punch, but that doesn't mean players can go around clipping other players around the ear). Now that is violent conduct.

Saying the rules do not specify "raising hands" is like saying that it does not specify a punch being thrown and missing or a kick being aimed and not connecting. Both are classed as violent conduct and should result in a sending off. What if Safri did the same as he did, but in LJ's face (ie put his hands in his face)? I don't think this debate would exist because we'd all see it as unacceptable. Safri was wrong and, yes, LJ fell easily. But if Safri wasn't a fool and had just let it go he'd not have been sent, LJ's conduct is hardly the real issue.

I agree it's not nice to see 'codding' and hope LJ will think twice in future, but I also think violent conduct and unprofessional behaviour is totally out of order and I have even less time for it. I used to coach kids and if I thought one was diving about and trying to con the ref I'd have a word in private to warn him off it, because they should play good enough not to need to do it. But I always warned them that if they lost their temper, got violent or simply let their fustration get the better of them they'd be off my team, end of. That's my position.

Anyway, how do we know LJ wasn't just trying to waste more time rather than get the man sent? We don't; people just presume the worst about the bloke.

[Ian M]

From http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndRegulat...02/05/12117.htm

Note, no mention of "raising hands". I hardly think that a gentle clip round the back of the head counts as "violent conduct".

People on this forum seem to be falling over themselves to defend Safri. His hit has been described as a friendly tap or a gentle clip when if you watch it back on SSN it's more like the action you would take to knock on a door.

Johnson (facing the other way) won't have known what type of hit it was, he just walks past the player when all of a sudden he feels a sharp pain to the back of his head, it's only a second or two later that he would realise it didn't actually hurt that much, by which time he's on his way down. Get a mate to do it to you (obviously you will be expecting it though) and you'll see what I mean.

[Nibor]

Hang about, have you seen the incident again? Because in my view the guy pushed LJ in the head after he went down under a bad challenge (no one is saying its a punch, but that doesn't mean players can go around clipping other players around the ear). Now that is violent conduct.

Saying the rules do not specify "raising hands" is like saying that it does not specify a punch being thrown and missing or a kick being aimed and not connecting. Both are classed as violent conduct and should result in a sending off. What if Safri did the same as he did, but in LJ's face (ie put his hands in his face)? I don't think this debate would exist because we'd all see it as unacceptable. Safri was wrong and, yes, LJ fell easily. But if Safri wasn't a fool and had just let it go he'd not have been sent, LJ's conduct is hardly the real issue.

I agree it's not nice to see 'codding' and hope LJ will think twice in future, but I also think violent conduct and unprofessional behaviour is totally out of order and I have even less time for it. I used to coach kids and if I thought one was diving about and trying to con the ref I'd have a word in private to warn him off it, because they should play good enough not to need to do it. But I always warned them that if they lost their temper, got violent or simply let their fustration get the better of them they'd be off my team, end of. That's my position.

Anyway, how do we know LJ wasn't just trying to waste more time rather than get the man sent? We don't; people just presume the worst about the bloke.

I haven't seen a replay. If I do and it looks different then maybe I'll think differently about it but frankly it was pretty clear.

I don't dispute that what Safri did was wrong and he deserved to go, I've said that all along.

There is no way on earth that what Safri did was enough to make LJ go down involuntarily. It was a choice he made and that was clear from the time it took him to make the decision. Spur of the moment, sure but still.

If it had been in the face I'd think the same. It takes quite a bit to knock someone on their ass and that was absolutely nowhere near it.

If LJ was wasting time he'd have stayed down, but instead he jumped back up as soon as the red card was out.

I'm not thinking the worst just for the hell of it and I've got no anti-LJ agenda at all (and frankly that argument is just a poor excuse), it was definitely cheating and I don't like that from a City player.

[samo]

I haven't seen a replay. If I do and it looks different then maybe I'll think differently about it but frankly it was pretty clear.

I don't dispute that what Safri did was wrong and he deserved to go, I've said that all along.

There is no way on earth that what Safri did was enough to make LJ go down involuntarily. It was a choice he made and that was clear from the time it took him to make the decision. Spur of the moment, sure but still.

If it had been in the face I'd think the same. It takes quite a bit to knock someone on their ass and that was absolutely nowhere near it.

If LJ was wasting time he'd have stayed down, but instead he jumped back up as soon as the red card was out.

I'm not thinking the worst just for the hell of it and I've got no anti-LJ agenda at all (and frankly that argument is just a poor excuse), it was definitely cheating and I don't like that from a City player.

Fair play, but wait until you've seen a replay at least before making what basically sound like assumptions.

He might not have been sparked out and the decision to fall might have been Johnson's but Safri didn't give him a friendly pat on the back of the head, he struck him. Open handed slap, kick to the head or Glasgow kiss, doesn't matter how the opposition takes the blow; you are off in any decent refs book. The offical was too close to the incident to be 'influncened' IMHO, he'll have had a good enough view whatever happened regardless of LJ's reaction.

[Spud55]

If he hadn't of gone down would the referee/linesman have done anything about it? There's a difference between diving and exaggerating. Lee Johnson exaggerated by the sounds of things. To gain us an advantage, he didn't cheat, he just made sure that Safri got the deserved punishment.

Why are Safri's hands up there, what was he doing with them? LJ isn't the perpetrator in this matter. I'm sure GJ will take this up with LJ, and i'm sure the rest of the lads will take the mick in training. Punishment enough really.

Sounds like some of you want Lee Johnson to be banned to me. Not for the sanctity of the game but because it's LJ.

I agree with that. The reason you see all this over exaggerating of things like that in football today and it'e because unless you mkae it blatently obvious then half the time Refs wont give anything, much like why there are so many players going down at the drop of a hat in the box, because half the time if they do try and be honest and stay on their feet and fail they are denied the penalty that should have been given and would have if they'd gone down like they'd been shot. Remember up at the Britania a few years ago when Murray was taken from behind but tried to be honest and stay on his feet and score, but didn't and all he got instead of the rightful pen was a second booking and a red card.

All this play acting in football is terrible but frankly i lay the blame for it almost solely at the feet of the officials.

[Guest maidenheadred]

I'd feel exactly the same about it.

LJ wasn't floored. He got tapped, the opportunity occurred to him a second or two later and he chose to go down. He got up immediately the red card was shown with no ill effects whatsoever.

It was poor behaviour IMO and I don't find it surprising he's getting criticism for it.

This whole Johnson-hater b***ocks is laughable. Any player would have got the same reaction from me and I'm sure other posters too. I can even remember posting something similar when Cotterill took a dive a couple of seasons ago.

i'm a Johnson fan, and i too would criticise any player who acts like that.

i did so when Matt Hill feigned injury from a headbutt that never was against Stockport years and years ago. "noo, our Matt isnt like that" the forum or citylist (Cant remember which) said.... then we saw the replays!

[Ian M]

I haven't seen a replay. If I do and it looks different then maybe I'll think differently about it but frankly it was pretty clear.

I don't dispute that what Safri did was wrong and he deserved to go, I've said that all along.

There is no way on earth that what Safri did was enough to make LJ go down involuntarily. It was a choice he made and that was clear from the time it took him to make the decision. Spur of the moment, sure but still.

If it had been in the face I'd think the same. It takes quite a bit to knock someone on their ass and that was absolutely nowhere near it.

If LJ was wasting time he'd have stayed down, but instead he jumped back up as soon as the red card was out.

I'm not thinking the worst just for the hell of it and I've got no anti-LJ agenda at all (and frankly that argument is just a poor excuse), it was definitely cheating and I don't like that from a City player.

He was actually back on his feet by the time the red card was out.

[Guest maidenheadred]

Seems some people are looking for any excuse to criticise Lee Johnson! Ridiculous...just got up and thought I'd read lots of positive comments about how great City were last night to grind out a 2-1 win over a much more established, wealthy, ex-premiership club and surprise surprise there is a whole thread slagging off Lee Johnson!! Now I'm not one to accuse anyone but if Lee Johnson got banned for supposed simulation or reprimanded by the club then such posters would be appeased right by Johnson being removed from the team for a few games?!

No I didn't go to the game and see the incident but will make my conclusion after watching it on the highlights rather than prejudging in haste immediately after the game. Granted those that were offended by it may have been right next to the incident but as our own manager wished to see it on tv first before making a conclusion surely we can pay one of our players similar respect?! If Marvin Elliot had done the same would there be a similar thread on otib.co.uk?!?!

It sounds like the player deserved to be sent off....excellent. IF he raised his hands that's a red card in this day and age. And listening to the commentary we were completely under the cosh up to this point and then this signalled the end of the game near enough. We won 2-1....fantastic! Let's praise the boys for holding on and criticise the Southampton player for hitting one of our own not the other way around! Why do we need a witch-hunt? 2nd in the Championship...our best season in my lifetime........let's cheer up and be happy and make the most of an absolutely amazing time to be a Bristol City fan and smile at our blue-and-white neighbours who are dead jealous right now and willing our run to end.

[reddoc]

I haven't seen a replay. If I do and it looks different then maybe I'll think differently about it but frankly it was pretty clear.

I don't dispute that what Safri did was wrong and he deserved to go, I've said that all along.

There is no way on earth that what Safri did was enough to make LJ go down involuntarily. It was a choice he made and that was clear from the time it took him to make the decision. Spur of the moment, sure but still.

If it had been in the face I'd think the same. It takes quite a bit to knock someone on their ass and that was absolutely nowhere near it.

If LJ was wasting time he'd have stayed down, but instead he jumped back up as soon as the red card was out.

I'm not thinking the worst just for the hell of it and I've got no anti-LJ agenda at all (and frankly that argument is just a poor excuse), it was definitely cheating and I don't like that from a City player.

Actually there's two reasons to go down in these sort of circumstances when hit from behind. One admittedly is the power of the blow but the other is a self defence mechanism which is inbuilt and difficult to prevent. If you immediately turn to see who or what has struck you you run the risk of turning into the second strike. Therefore going to ground before assessing the risk makes perfect sense on a basic instinctive level.

The fact it came from behind makes a big difference when you claim play acting I'm afraid.

[Portishead Red]

If he hadn't of gone down would the referee/linesman have done anything about it? There's a difference between diving and exaggerating. Lee Johnson exaggerated by the sounds of things. To gain us an advantage, he didn't cheat, he just made sure that Safri got the deserved punishment.

Why are Safri's hands up there, what was he doing with them? LJ isn't the perpetrator in this matter. I'm sure GJ will take this up with LJ, and i'm sure the rest of the lads will take the mick in training. Punishment enough really.

Sounds like some of you want Lee Johnson to be banned to me. Not for the sanctity of the game but because it's LJ.

Disagree with you on this one RH.

He dived/simulated call it what you want......i certainly don't want to see that down at AG.

LJ you've let yourself down.

[Guest reddog]

Disagree with you on this one RH.

He dived/simulated call it what you want......i certainly don't want to see that down at AG.

LJ you've let yourself down.

Don't very often agree with you Portishead Red, but I do on this occasion.

[Guest maidenheadred]

it's cheating.

always wondered how fans of clubs like arsenal and chelsea said after a game when their players blatantly try and get a fellow pro booked or sent off.. and looking through the thread above can see now what probably happens.

some of us say its wrong - but others cant see past the red shirt doing the diving, and so make excuses. Same way a lot of us made excuses for our players getting sent to prison, with two of them being revealed as having previous (imagine what we'd havae said if they were gas)

A post above says its not cheating - it is cheating, and i don't want to see it here no matter how high in the league we go. If the reverse happened to one of our players, not ONE of you would argue in the Saint's player's favour... anyone going to tell me otherwise?

[Nibor]

Actually there's two reasons to go down in these sort of circumstances when hit from behind. One admittedly is the power of the blow but the other is a self defence mechanism which is inbuilt and difficult to prevent. If you immediately turn to see who or what has struck you you run the risk of turning into the second strike. Therefore going to ground before assessing the risk makes perfect sense on a basic instinctive level.

The fact it came from behind makes a big difference when you claim play acting I'm afraid.

I would have thought the natural reaction would be to duck, move away from the blow, and turn around.

But he did take a noticeable time to decide what he was doing IMO and I was left with the impression that it was completely voluntary.

[greenun]

This was my earlier reply in another thread:

I didn't see the incident first-hand, but after watching Sky Sports News' coverage on the large screen in the Supporters Club bar, one word came to mind: Dida. After the huge publicity surrounding the Rosseneri keeper's antics at Celtic recently, you'd have thought that any professional footballer would be wary of collapsing as though he'd been shot by a sniper, after what can only be described as a gentle tap on the head. Unfortunately, trial by television will always out.

[Guest east_dundry_red]

I agree totally. I also think though there is no need to try and get anouther player sent off.

I do! Any advantage is an advantage. I used to stamp on players toes when i played in goal. Used to stop them jumping for headers, a little stamp no one noticed and you'd get the ball. An advantage is an advantage what ever way you look at it.

Its the same in rugby, you do every little thing to get yourself ahead weather it be raking studs down the opposition players back or exagerating contact!

[Henry]

This was my earlier reply in another thread:

I didn't see the incident first-hand, but after watching Sky Sports News' coverage on the large screen in the Supporters Club bar, one word came to mind: Dida. After the huge publicity surrounding the Rosseneri keeper's antics at Celtic recently, you'd have thought that any professional footballer would be wary of collapsing as though he'd been shot by a sniper, after what can only be described as a gentle tap on the head. Unfortunately, trial by television will always out.

IMO both incidents are completly different.

Johnson never stayed down and needed to be carried off.

[Redhyde]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

[reddoc]

I would have thought the natural reaction would be to duck, move away from the blow, and turn around.

But he did take a noticeable time to decide what he was doing IMO and I was left with the impression that it was completely voluntary.

Yep know what you mean but it's happened to me twice , both when torn a muscle in the back of my calf, common injury and most people describe it as thinking you've been shot or kicked. It's initially not that painful but you do tend to rather embarrassingly go to ground and then look round to see who did it. Different bit of anatomy but same principle .

[Nibor]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

My view wouldn't be any different, Safri was getting sent off anyway and I suspect that if one of our players did what Safri did most people on here would be saying the guy made a meal of it but he shouldn't have been given the chance to.

It's got nothing to do with owing allegiance, it's got to do with integrity.

[Guest maidenheadred]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

he's pushed him in the head - may or may not be a yellow or red card - referee's decision.

LJ owes a fellow professional and probably 12,000 fans (figure the other 6,000 agree with what he did, if this thread is representative..) the right to watch a referee make that decision - not to exaggerate it with a disproportional reaction, and try and influence the ref.

[greenun]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

That answer makes you an apologist for gamesmanship in my opinion.

[Frome Valley]

Bristol City in the past has had players such Gow. Our players should not behave like Lee Johnson did last night.Hopefully we will not see it again.

[redcityman]

It's another Gary Johnson "STAY DOWN" incident one suspects.

Whilst not condonning what LJ did, you're not exactly in a position to gloat considering lewis haldanes attempts this season to get into the british olympic diving team.

Infact you gasheads are renowned for cheating aint you esmond.

[Redhyde]

he's pushed him in the head - may or may not be a yellow or red card - referee's decision.

LJ owes a fellow professional and probably 12,000 fans (figure the other 6,000 agree with what he did, if this thread is representative..) the right to watch a referee make that decision - not to exaggerate it with a disproportional reaction, and try and influence the ref.

What does LJ do to affect his decision then. Are you saying that the referee wouldn't have sent him off unless LJ went down? Surely the ref would have come to the decision regardless of LJ's actions. If you think he wouldn't then you obviously have the same opinion of officials that i do. You need to influence them to get the right decisions.

And we know what Safri thinks of fellow professionals where he shoves them in the head. Why should LJ help this guy out when he's been disgracefully disrespectful?

That answer makes you an apologist for gamesmanship in my opinion.

I'm not apologising. No way in hell.

In any case in sport where a player or team bends the rules and gets away with it, i blame the officials for not spotting it or acting upon it not the players themselves. I've outlined why i think he was right to do it.

I'd be upset if one of our players was stupid enough to do what Safri did. If Safri doesn't do this horrible thing, there's no need for LJ to do anything about it.

[greenun]

I'm not apologising. No way in hell.

That's not what it means. As an apologist you are defending Johnson's actions and condoning his behaviour.

[Guest georgie best]

no one would moan, if one of the fans favourites had done the same, the likes of carey, orr, basso or noble would of been praised, only because its the managers son that every one has a go. disgrace

[greenun]

no one would moan, if one of the fans favourites had done the same, the likes of carey, orr, basso or noble would of been praised, only because its the managers son that every one has a go. disgrace

That has got absolutely nothing to do with this debate and you're just trying to avoid the issue.

[cidercity1987]

I'm not too such what the fuss is about.

From watching World Johnson went over to Safri to say a few things, Safri started to put his arm around him, Johnson nudged into him so Safri cracked him on the head with his knuckles. How any of us can be sure how badly Johnson felt it is beyond me?

As from Burley's point of view, it certainly wasn't a consoling pat!

[BCFC Grim]

Safri hit him from behind, Johnson couldn't of know it was comming so must have come a bit of surprise. Thats may what caused him to go down. Say Johnson did go down easily, safri was hardly respectfull of Johnson, hitting him with his back turned. Safri would have been sent of the none the less, and if he managed to get off I'm sure some people would have moaned why didn't LJ go down.It was back to the wall stuff and it wasted a bit of time, and stopped saints momentum. Safri hardly showed LJ respect,so why should johnson show respect by not going down.

Safri was in the wrong, not Lee.

[Redhyde]

That's not what it means. As an apologist you are defending Johnson's actions and condoning his behaviour.

Yeah i know, just kidding with the apologising statement You kind of need to look at the definition though if you're going to use the term so it was more a look to see if you understood what accusation you were throwing even if you're wrong with it.

I have a view on the subject so by the technical definition of course I'm an apologist. But then equally you are for having the opposite view.

What makes it a pretty poor usage of the word is that i don't conform to the apologist stereotypes and rhetoric usages. I'm not denying anything, i'm not omitting facts or exaggerating other ones. There isn't an agenda and i don't seek a change.

Your attempt to weaken my view by bounding around pejorative terms is ill becoming of you.

[bartolona]

I'm not too such what the fuss is about.

From watching World Johnson went over to Safri to say a few things, Safri started to put his arm around him, Johnson nudged into him so Safri cracked him on the head with his knuckles. How any of us can be sure how badly Johnson felt it is beyond me?

As from Burley's point of view, it certainly wasn't a consoling pat!

Totally agree, watching it back a lot of people on here have gone way over the top on their slating of LJ.

[Guest rossjonesuk]

He tapped him. Johnson was an idiot for going down the way he did.

Bit of 'sportsmanship' - the guy had to go anyway cos, however lightly he did it, he raised his hands in an aggressive way and that is a straight red. Admittedly LJ made a meal of it, but as said - sportsmanship. At this level you gotta have some just to be on a level playing field with what other teams would do.

[Seend Red]

Bit of 'sportsmanship' - the guy had to go anyway cos, however lightly he did it, he raised his hands in an aggressive way and that is a straight red. Admittedly LJ made a meal of it, but as said - sportsmanship. At this level you gotta have some just to be on a level playing field with what other teams would do.

Sportsmanship=Cheating.

[Alex_BCFC]

Bit of 'sportsmanship' - the guy had to go anyway cos, however lightly he did it, he raised his hands in an aggressive way and that is a straight red. Admittedly LJ made a meal of it, but as said - sportsmanship. At this level you gotta have some just to be on a level playing field with what other teams would do.

No you don't. We were doing fine at 2-0 with no gamesmanship.

I've seen it again now and I don't like to see it. The guy would have gone regardless as the ref saw it.

[Guest maidenheadred]

What does LJ do to affect his decision then. Are you saying that the referee wouldn't have sent him off unless LJ went down? Surely the ref would have come to the decision regardless of LJ's actions. If you think he wouldn't then you obviously have the same opinion of officials that i do. You need to influence them to get the right decisions.

And we know what Safri thinks of fellow professionals where he shoves them in the head. Why should LJ help this guy out when he's been disgracefully disrespectful?

am not saying the referee wouldnt have sent him off unless LJ went down at all. Just saying that its up to the referee to make up his mind based on the facts as he sees them (without an action replay), and that exaggerating what was just a tap risks distorting the facts as the ref sees them, and risks the referee making the wrong decision.

from seeing it live (and not yet seeing a replay) i'd call it a yellow card offence - but would rather the ref judged it for what it was, rather than see a Lee crumple on the ground and have that influence that decision to be a red.

If it was a red regardless - then fine, but let ref make that decision lee, and don't have several thousands people thinking less of you the day after!

[Guest rossjonesuk]

Sportsmanship=Cheating.

I don't disagree, but unfortunately -as I said - there needs to be an element of it these days just to be on a level playing field with the other teams.

[Drew Peacock]

No you don't. We were doing fine at 2-0 with no gamesmanship.

I've seen it again now and I don't like to see it. The guy would have gone regardless as the ref saw it.

I thought it was 2-1 and we were under the cosh?

[Alex_BCFC]

I thought it was 2-1 and we were under the cosh?

The point was that we don't need gamesmanship to win.

Even at the time of 2-1 and being under the cosh, it wasn't required. In fact that kind of behaviour for my team is never acceptable for me but as this thread shows it varies from person to person.

[Claverham_Red]

I can't believe what I'm hearing on here. I've just seen the highlights on World and Safri simply had to go. This talk of LJ's unsportmanship is utter tosh if you ask me. The bloke raised his hand with intent right right in front of the ref. If Southampton appeal then I must be going blind. I agree with cidercity1987: how can any of us say how badly Johnson felt is beyond me. Some people are never happy unless they got something to moan about. That's my two pence worth, anyhow.

[Nibor]

He was actually back on his feet by the time the red card was out.

Watch the highlights.

[rumbellow]

I don't like cheating, it's something that has blighted the game for a few years now, the last 2 world cups were ruined by it and I cancelled my sky subscription cos I got fed up with seeing overpaid nancy boys diving around. I am sure that LJ is not happy with what he has seen and I am even more sure that GJ has had words with him. This is what happens the club closes ranks and it is dealt with internally, I for one have enough confidence in our manager that this will be dealt with.

Also I would like to ask this question, would there be the same furore and 3 pages (so far) if for instance the perpretrator was say Basso, Carey or Elliott, I also seem to remember an instance last season involving Basso (admittedly not involving a sending off) where there was a bit of let's say theatrics, I certainly can't remember the same kind of witchunt then.

[cidercity1987]

At the time I thought Johnson had had a heart attack the way he fell to the floor, so I can imagine why people would want to tarnish him as a cheat or whatever. Therefore would anyone like to retract a few comments having seen highlights, or do you still think the same?

What about our players that have been booked for diving recently? Diving that is, falling to the floor without being touched. Contrast that the falling to the floor after being * on the head. 3 page backlash against them, I don't think so. This thread has gone over the top somewhat at times if you ask me.

*Please add whatever adjective you choose. I choose whacked.

[Chessels Chick]

Last night I thought Johnson made meal of it granted but the guy had to go as struck him on back of head

Reading this thread at work today I thought maybe I was mistaken and it wasn't as bad as I thought

Having just seen it on World the referee had no choice but to send him off - he hit LJ on the back of the head right in front of the ref and from his/the camera view (rather than mine from the Dolman) it looks like a deliberate strike rather than a slap

So whether you think LJ over-reacted or not the red card was correct

And comparing it to the Dida incident is a joke - I was at Parkhead and the delayed reaction and him lying prostrate on the ground before being stretchered off with an ice pack on his cheek when the guy brushed him on the shoulder was far more extreme play acting than LJ falling to ground and getting up almost immediately

[Guest reddog]

That's not what it means. As an apologist you are defending Johnson's actions and condoning his behaviour.

Priceless!!!

[BCFC Grim]

Didn't LT23 get booked for diving recently, i can't even remeber a thread about it, let alone 3 pages. Any excuse to get on Johnsons back. I don't see a thread praising how well he played in the first half.

[Alex_BCFC]

Didn't LT23 get booked for diving recently, i can't even remeber a thread about it, let alone 3 pages. Any excuse to get on Johnsons back. I don't see a thread praising how well he played in the first half.

It has been mentioned so many times in other threads how well he did first half.

[cidercity1987]

Didn't LT23 get booked for diving recently, i can't even remeber a thread about it, let alone 3 pages. Any excuse to get on Johnsons back. I don't see a thread praising how well he played in the first half.

Johnson was probably my man of the match/half in the 1st half. Shocking second half though!

[mcbcfc]

Having read everything on here and just this minute watched the incident on city world, Safri clearly raises his hand and moves it towards Johnsons head in an aggressive manner and no matter how hard he hit/touched johnson he was right to be sent off. As regards to johnson's tumble yeah it was mellow dramatic, however you see people going down with minimal contact to win a free kick personally i see no difference, it may not be right but it happens. So lets leave this behind and get behind everyone and keep this fantastic start going by stuffing Stoke on saturday

[Guest Hillbilly]

no matter how hard he hit/touched johnson he was right to be sent off.

Just seen it on Soccer night and it looked like a particularly nasty schoolyard type "crusty", instead of going down like that, Lee Johnson should've stayed on his feet and looked for the first opportunity to get his revenge by "peanutting" Safri's tie!

[Frenchay Red]

Having just read through all this lot I think folk are being a bit harsh on LJ. It happened right infront of me as I was coming down the lower steps of the Dolman. LJ got quite a sharp shove from the lower palm of Safri's hand and although it was not enough to floor him, it would be enough to cause a stumble, and he, for whatever reason went to his knees. What hasn't been mentioned on this thread is that if this was acting to get a reaction from the ref, it palled in comparison with the antics of their defender who leapt into the air when Byfield hardly touched him and got Darren booked.

Anyway great result, given the fact that they crocked two of our most influential guys!

[NickJ]

My tuppenyworth.

In my view, if LJ's life depended on him staying up, he wouldnt have gone to ground. In other words, I think he went down deliberately.

However, having met Lee, albeit briefly, I know he's a good lad. That combined with the fact he takes more than his fair share of stick on here, some deserved, some not, leads me to conclude we should give the lad a break.

Last season, Lee made some offensive gestures to the fans, because a small minority had given him undeserved abuse - away at Orient, I think it was. That was wrong of him and an insult to the majority who were behind him, and I recall saying so at the time. I think he learnt from that, in fact I am positive his dad would have given him a bit of a talking to about it.

I reckon the same will have happened about this incident, and I cant see it happening again.

Move on.

On a postive note, although he faded badly in the second half, and in my view should have been taken off, LJ's first half performance was outstanding, lets not forget that.

[greenun]

And comparing it to the Dida incident is a joke - I was at Parkhead and the delayed reaction and him lying prostrate on the ground before being stretchered off with an ice pack on his cheek when the guy brushed him on the shoulder was far more extreme play acting than LJ falling to ground and getting up almost immediately

Please read my answer again.

This was my earlier reply in another thread:

I didn't see the incident first-hand, but after watching Sky Sports News' coverage on the large screen in the Supporters Club bar, one word came to mind: Dida. After the huge publicity surrounding the Rosseneri keeper's antics at Celtic recently, you'd have thought that any professional footballer would be wary of collapsing as though he'd been shot by a sniper, after what can only be described as a gentle tap on the head. Unfortunately, trial by television will always out.

It's still play-acting however you wish to condone it. I cannot believe the number of people who think that the end justifes the means.

[Rob k]

Just seen it on Soccer night and it looked like a particularly nasty schoolyard type "crusty", instead of going down like that, Lee Johnson should've stayed on his feet and looked for the first opportunity to get his revenge by "peanutting" Safri's tie!

Ha ha brilliant!! He should have got his pal Elliott to get the bigger boy in a headlock whilst LJ gave him a "bainer" !!!!

[Tunley Legend]

Having just read through all this lot I think folk are being a bit harsh on LJ. It happened right infront of me as I was coming down the lower steps of the Dolman. LJ got quite a sharp shove from the lower palm of Safri's hand and although it was not enough to floor him, it would be enough to cause a stumble, and he, for whatever reason went to his knees. What hasn't been mentioned on this thread is that if this was acting to get a reaction from the ref, it palled in comparison with the antics of their defender who leapt into the air when Byfield hardly touched him and got Darren booked.

Anyway great result, given the fact that they crocked two of our most influential guys!

What are you on about? Their defender "leapt in the air" to avoid getting his leg broken by Byfield!! Most of us who have played football have done that and it has got nothing to do with getting the other player booked whatsoever. Imagine if Phil Neville had stayed on his feet last Saturday when Kuyt was attempting to snap him in half - the bloke would never be playing football again. As for Lee Johnson - I agree with Nick J - a quiet but firm word from the old man won't go amiss and lets move on.

[rayer]

Just saw this on Scooernight, and I have to admit, it was pretty poor from LJ part. Looks like a feather would of knocked him over, lucky there wasnt a strong wind that night either or he would be on the floor all match !!!

[rayer]

Sorry, bored at work.

[Guest City-Fan-Jess]

Did any one see on soccer night last night it looked like Johnson got hit twice on the back of the head?